A very sad day

[Cindy Adair]

I just finished filing a formal complaint with the electric company that hired the tree trimmers that killed my more than 50 year old palms a few hours ago while I was running errands.

If only that would bring them back. 

I have plenty of before photos including many posted here, but too sad to add them tonight. 

And I did not even photograph the other row of destruction on the opposite side of my entry gate.

I do have lots of other beautiful equally large R. borinquena palms, but the row lining the street can never be replaced in my lifetime and they were NOT endangering the power lines anyway. 

They survived two hurricanes since I have lived here and more before that but not the chainsaws today.

[Johnny Palmseed]

That’s a huge loss but unfortunately the utility company is probably well within its rights to do this. It’s hard to tell from the pictures how close to the lines they were but they do appear to be close enough to justify pruning at least. And their priority is to protect the lines, not the plants. Unfortunately, too many trees are planted in rights of way that end up being pruned to oblivion. I have seen lopsided and “U” shaped oaks that survive but look ridiculous but palms are obviously not able to take that kind of hit.

[aabell]

Ugh this makes me sick to see, pure stupidity. And then to leave them butchered like that for you to have to clean up now. I'm so sorry for the loss of your palms. 

[bubba]

Notwithstanding utility protocol, this kind of conduct is reckless and completely without excuse. Quasi-malicious action showing lack of reasonable standards and probably garnered by no accountability. I am sorry for your loss!

[Elvis Cruz]

I'm so disgusted to see that.   Horrible.  Senseless.

A hurricane-prone island like Puerto Rico should have the power lines underground.  It's cheaper in the long run, rather than having to fix them after every big storm.

[Billeb]

Jerks. That’s pretty much all I can say. 
 

People are jerks. 
 

-dale

[DoomsDave]

@Cindy AdairOUCH, sorry to see. 🥲

They just went and butchered a Roystonea oleracea one time, too. 

[D. Morrowii]

Wow! Thats terrible! Very sorry this happened to you. It makes me wonder if it was one guy having a bad day or someone new who misunderstood what he was supposed to do or what. 

[Little Tex]

Why the heck did he chop of the literal crownshaft? I feel like even people who know nothing about palms can tell thats a vital part, especially when its your job to trim trees in Puetro Rico

[ASHCVS]

Disgusting, absolutely disgusting. I’m fortunate I saw them in all their glory. What a travesty.

[Josue Diaz]

Geez, I would probably cry. So sorry

[Patrick]

JFC I'm so angry with this, with the situation...

Edited May 6, 2023 by Patrick

[Cindy Adair]

Thanks for your sympathy and support.

Here is a before photo of the section shown in my first post. Please note that it is from 2018, a year after Hurricane María slammed PR. 
It better shows the distance between the power lines and these trees.

 

Next is a before photo of the other group of my former row of giant palms.

The photo compresses the view with the hill and the curve making the power lines look closer than they are. 
 

Last for today is an after photo of the two they cut to the ground and the trim job on the others. I do think the trimmed ones here will live unless traumatized further as the spears remain.
 

Look at the power line position compared to the road below.

Why they cut many fronds facing away from the street I also do not understand. 
Pieces of palms fell on top of other plants down the slope crashing on palms I planted. Sudden sun exposure will harm or kill other ornamentals.

[Tyrone]

I’m so sorry for you and your palms. They were nowhere near the powerlines. I’m fuming for you. If it was me I’d be on the war path to find exactly who did that and ask why. They weren’t consistently cut either. We’re they on drugs when they did that? 
There’s no excuse for such a callous act.

Some of them have been cut above the growing point, so they may recover, but obviously the decapitated ones won’t. I’d be getting the decapitated ones cut down and giving the ones responsible the bill. Unbelievable.

[Frond-friend42]

Those were beautiful. What a tragedy. My friend here in Utah had the power company take out his trees but they gave him a big compensation for the fast-growing poplars he'd planted just a few short years before that he didn'treally care about. I'm thinking PR gov. is unlikely to be as generous, from the very little I know about PR. That sum would be enormous if they were to justly compensate you. Barbarous. Que barbaridad!

[Cindy Adair]

Puerto Rico’s publicly owned PREPA electric company was bought out by a Canadian based company Luma. 

Perhaps that is a plus in my current situation. 

We’ll see.

[Rivera]

😔

So sorry.

[PalmatierMeg]

Cindy, my heart goes out to you. What a horrible thing to do to those lovely palms.

[tinman10101]

i'm so sorry cindy.  this makes me fume with anger to see their total disregard for your property.  its horrible that they did not even contact you to notify their intentions so you could resolve it.   i would be both crying and fuming.  

[Las Palmas Norte]

A reprehensible, abhorrent, undertaking. Best wishes with your pursuit for compensation.

[rprimbs]

I am sorry but i don't know if what they did was really wrong.  If those power lines are not "insulated" -- like the ones that run to the house -- than the electricity does not just flow through the wires, it also flows through the air in a "field" around the wires.  This is why uninsulated wires are so efficient.  If you break the field than the electricity can 'arc'.  This is why they put them up so high 

 

[96720]

I have some plain old Washingtonian palms I planted that the electric company is not happy about but the fact is they have run their lines across my property instead of running them at 90 degrees on the corner they ran some diagonally across my property so I am arguing but with a stupid company it’s probably futile!!!!!!

[KrisKupsch]

3 hours ago, rprimbs said:

I am sorry but i don't know if what they did was really wrong.  If those power lines are not "insulated" -- like the ones that run to the house -- than the electricity does not just flow through the wires, it also flows through the air in a "field" around the wires.  This is why uninsulated wires are so efficient.  If you break the field than the electricity can 'arc'.  This is why they put them up so high 

 

I worked for electricity companies in National Parks making sure they didn’t prune too much. There is a big problem with arcing and electricity “jumping” through air, especially humid air and earthing out. It can lead to fires and deaths. Not to mention Royal palms drop giant fronds that often get caught, esp when windy and esp caught up on wires and are so heavy they could make a wire sag. Unfortunately these Roystoneas are too close but the company should have consulted the owner first. Who ever pruned them this way…gosh they could have done their job so much better. Peacefully and professionally. I see no elements of that. 

[Kim]

What wretched butchery! The workers who did the job have a lot of explaining to do. But I would imagine myself feeling helpless and powerless in the situation, knowing, as you said, that they will not be replaced in your lifetime. At the very least they should return and remove the dead bodies. Shocking, utterly shocking. I am so, so sorry Cindy! 

[Cindy Adair]

I do appreciate all the comments both explanatory and sympathetic.
 

As I was without electricity for 6 months in 2017 following Hurricane María I appreciate that trimming of trees was overdue. 

However this was palmicide.

The giant Cecropias across the street from one section of my Royal remnants were not cut. Cecropias (Yagrumos is their PR name) are super fast, pretty but weak trees and are expected to fall and then regrow from their multiple mangrove like roots.

Everyone knows that here.

They are going to hit the power line and block the road connecting me with all shopping. It is just a matter of when. Probably they are further away now than the top of one frond of my now cut palms, but give them less than one year….
 

 

[Johnny Palmseed]

7 hours ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

A reprehensible, abhorrent, undertaking. Best wishes with your pursuit for compensation.

There will be no compensation.

1 hour ago, Kim said:

The workers who did the job have a lot of explaining to do.

No they don’t.

The utilities responsibility is to its customers. And investors if publicly traded. They need to protect the lines as best as they can. Obviously, underground lines would solve some of these issues but would cost a great deal of money. Unfortunately, this event was set in motion when the palms were planted. Generally speaking, any plant that will reach line height will be pruned if planted within 20’ but these palms have large fronds which blow in the wind. 50’ is considered to be the minimum distance for this type of plant. It is unfortunate that they didn’t seem to try to save the palms but these people are not arborists. They are people with the ability to use a chainsaw. Their job is simple - keep the lines clear. It would have been nice if they would have done a cleaner job but ultimately it probably wouldn’t have saved the palms. Eventually they would need to be pruned to the point where they might die anyway. This situation is unfortunate and shocking but was destined to happen.

[aabell]

22 minutes ago, Johnny Palmseed said:

The utilities responsibility is to its customers. And investors if publicly traded. They need to protect the lines as best as they can. Obviously, underground lines would solve some of these issues but would cost a great deal of money. Unfortunately, this event was set in motion when the palms were planted. Generally speaking, any plant that will reach line height will be pruned if planted within 20’ but these palms have large fronds which blow in the wind. 50’ is considered to be the minimum distance for this type of plant. It is unfortunate that they didn’t seem to try to save the palms but these people are not arborists. They are people with the ability to use a chainsaw. Their job is simple - keep the lines clear. It would have been nice if they would have done a cleaner job but ultimately it probably wouldn’t have saved the palms. Eventually they would need to be pruned to the point where they might die anyway. This situation is unfortunate and shocking but was destined to happen.

The company may be in its legal right, or even have a profit incentive to set a bunch of untrained trigger-happy chainsaw crews loose on anything within a certain distance of their lines, but I disagree that it was necessary or appropriate. I could find a hundred royals around here that are closer to lines that those, FPL either lets them be or cuts off some fronds when they send their tree crews around periodically.

The responsible thing would be to hire a better crew that wouldn't leave half of the trees dead and the other half mutilated. Or to clear the lines more often so that they don't have to cut as much in one go. But both of those things would of course cost more, which would mean less $$$ for the shareholders  🤢. We know why they did it, doesn't make it ok. 

[palmfriend]

Cindy,

 

that is sad to see! I am sorry for your loss and hope you will get over it with focussing on all the other great palms your are growing.

It won't bring those palms back, I know, but it might help.

That the power company has to protect their lines is a given, but in this matter the way it is done looks unprofessional and without

any protocol for the cutting job itself...  A notice to the property owner or notes attached to the palms in advance would have been the minimum 

the power company should have done... 

The reason for this strange handling I do not know - I just hope you can get an explanation for this and establish a kind of channel to be informed or

get noticed if another cutting job is planned. 

Cindy, cheer up!

 

regards

Lars

 

[Johnny Palmseed]

8 hours ago, aabell said:

The company may be in its legal right, or even have a profit incentive to set a bunch of untrained trigger-happy chainsaw crews loose on anything within a certain distance of their lines, but I disagree that it was necessary or appropriate. I could find a hundred royals around here that are closer to lines that those, FPL either lets them be or cuts off some fronds when they send their tree crews around periodically.

The responsible thing would be to hire a better crew that wouldn't leave half of the trees dead and the other half mutilated. Or to clear the lines more often so that they don't have to cut as much in one go. But both of those things would of course cost more, which would mean less $$$ for the shareholders  🤢. We know why they did it, doesn't make it ok. 

I know that my comments seem harsh and unsympathetic but it’s not that. I’m not saying that it was necessary or appropriate. I don’t have enough information to make that call. Actually nobody on this forum does. I’m just saying that the workers are given a simple task - clear the lines. It is a judgment call whether or not they should be cut and by how much. It is subjective and the decision is made by the workers. And the power company is not concerned with the aesthetics of their work. FPL is a Florida company. She is in Puerto Rico. Their guidelines and training procedures are probably somewhat different.

I’m in no way praising the workers in this situation. This is a hack job. But again, they are not arborists hired by a landowner to trim trees in a professional, aesthetic manner. They are people with a minimal skill set who can operate chainsaws. But it’s not their fault if they are forced to cut poorly located plants that could affect the lines.

As far as hiring better crews goes, good luck with that. This is post Covid America and nobody wants to work. And this happened in PR. It was like that over there well before Covid. Even in Florida, the crews still do hack jobs because they too are not arborists. They are people with a minimal skill set who can operate chainsaws.

I feel sympathy for Cindy as this was probably quite traumatic to experience. I’m sure she had a sense of violation that we all would. I recently had a run in with a neighbor who felt the need to cut my Pseudophoenix without saying anything. A couple fronds were over the fence line by about a foot. In my opinion, they were not affecting them in any way but they were over the fence. They felt that it was better to just cut them vs asking me to take care of it. I was angry with them but I have no recourse as they were outside my property line. And these are people who I have lived next door to for over 20 years. Never mind the power company. They will do what they want, when they want.

[Looking Glass]

It definitely sucks to come home and find your trees looking like that, and those didn’t look overly close to those palms.   On the other hand, in other circumstances, the lines have to stay clear at all times, and palm problems around power lines are very easily predicable.  

I’ve lost power 5x in the past few months due to blowouts from neighbor’s palms on power lines.   In Florida, FPL is much less aggressive about clearing lines than say, the power companies in California.     Palms cannot be directionally pruned under power lines like a hardwood tree, and I’ve got neighbors planting coconuts directly under lines, that will be in them, and over neighbors pools in a few years….   It’s a super a-hole move.   

The policy is to remove at least the head/growing point of the palm tree to below the lines, though it is rarely enforced.  

It doesn’t bother me as much, as I have an automatic whole house generator, but I feel bad for the elderly neighbors spending days indoors at 90 degrees with 90% humidity due to other people’s entitledness and laziness.   

[Palm Tree Jim]

So sorry to see this Cindy. 

 

[Cindy Adair]

I have heard nothing from my phone call and then written reports a week ago so plan to call again today.

Yesterday I realized I also lost a big lovely tree fern in the process and that clearly the workers were well within my property tossing the tree fern down another interior hill. 

My assumption is that when they cut the first two Royals one hit the tree fern below it. 

That mature tree fern was helping prevent landslides as well as giving shade and beauty and in no way was near any power lines.

In fact I was planning to attach a nice aroid there when I saw the stump and found the tree tossed with the huge trunks of the royals onto my own land.

I also used that tree fern trunk as a handhold for climbing that area which I had worked hard clearing noxious  invasives to get ready to plant beneath.  
 

Now back to steep slope in full sun unanchored and hurricane season beginning next month.

[Tyrone]

Just one question, does Puerto Rico run on 110V like the rest of the US? Those lines look like they are not the ultra high voltage distributor lines, which need heaps of clearance. Maybe being in a hurricane area the clearances are so large, but even something sitting on the ground (eg a trampoline) could land on a power line in a hurricane. Just trying to understand the rationale for their clearances. In any event their customer relations are just terrible. 

[Cindy Adair]

Same 110 voltage here as in continental US.

[miamicuse]

Are the royals and tree fern within the easement area for the utilities even though it's on your property?

Thr power companies are notorious for doing this and you are not likely to get any response beyond their first line reps.  I have had Florida Power and Light top headed my 30' tall Washingtonian, I complained, they said my palm planted was too close to the lines.  I submitted proof with letter, survey, plan, before after photos showing that the palm was not close to the wooden power lines by the streets, then in 2017, they erected new concrete power posts 10' inside of the old wooden posts, and the new posts came closer to my palm, there is no way my palm could have been planted with a foreknowledge of their post relocation twenty years later.  Doesn't matter, my palm was too close, no resolution, not even a sorry, just your palm is too close and we have the rights.

[Cindy Adair]

Well, the two killed palms and tree fern in the first section are definitely not on any easement now as they were dumped far interior.
 

Humor aside, the tree fern killed in collateral damage was far from any easement. The Allspice tree damaged too was another innocent bystander.
 

I can hunt up the documents from when I bought the land to see if easements are marked. I don’t remember anything like that.

I spoke to the phone answering person again today, but got no further than a “they will call you sometime” sort of answer after being first told to submit text and photos to them.

Because I have done that three times already that was not a good choice of suggestions. Of course I do not blame the person whose job it is to follow a script.

[dalmatiansoap]

5 hours ago, Tyrone said:

Just one question, does Puerto Rico run on 110V like the rest of the US? Those lines look like they are not the ultra high voltage distributor lines, which need heaps of clearance. Maybe being in a hurricane area the clearances are so large, but even something sitting on the ground (eg a trampoline) could land on a power line in a hurricane. Just trying to understand the rationale for their clearances. In any event their customer relations are just terrible. 

These are primary lines. Voltage probably between 7 and 12.5kV in US standard. I work for distribution company here in Europe and it would be 12 to 24kV here. Minimum corridor distance here is 10 meters (5 meters each side of pole), we cut everything legally in that range. 

Unfortunately this is butchering, they must cut it off on ground level an move debris if it is in safety corridor 

[Merlyn]

Yeah, the unfortunate reality is the easement probably is not your legal property.  In doing the septic field in my front yard, the company said they are legally prohibited from putting the field closer than 3 feet from the easement line.  In my case the neighborhood is private, with our own roads.  The HOA legally owns the easement area, which is 60 feet wide from the centerline of the roads.  That means about 20 feet of my front yard is not mine.  The HOA or utilities could drive a bulldozer through there tomorrow and I'd have no legal right to complain.  But if they went beyond that line I could claim damages or sue if there's a problem.  Of course IANAL (I Am Not A Lawyer) and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night...so I could be completely wrong! 

[miamicuse]

Well yes easement area one cannot erect anything even though it's your property, no sheds fences trees hedges etc...and if you do they can bring it down and even charge you for the demo cost, but most companies are reasonable and will talk to the owners first like we are going to access the valve behind this fence and be we are coming tomorrow so if you can take it do down we don't need to push it over.  Butchering the palms this way is just not reasonable.

[Marie Nock]

A tragedy.  My condolences.