For some, Florida drought is getting very "extreme"

[__nevii]

On 10/13/2023 at 6:40 AM, SeanK said:

Even up my way, we got about 25% of the original prediction, 3-days out. You FL guys can take a deluge in that sand. This heavy red clay needs a long, slow drizzle for it to do much good.

Isn't the Georgia red clay made of "kaolin"? How fast/poor draining is the soil where you are? I've read that kaolin doesn't expand like other clays do upon contact with water.

Edited October 16, 2023 by __nevii

[SeanK]

16 minutes ago, __nevii said:

Isn't the Georgia red clay made of "kaolin"? How fast/poor draining is the soil where you are? I've read that kaolin doesn't expand like other clays do upon contact with water.

After 3 days of rain, it's like a brick 4-inches below the surface.

[__nevii]

7 minutes ago, SeanK said:

After 3 days of rain, it's like a brick 4-inches below the surface.

So, a hardpan basically? I'm assuming the surface four inches are sandier/loam?

[SeanK]

2 minutes ago, __nevii said:

So, a hardpan basically? I'm assuming the surface four inches are sandier/loam?

The top is hard if there's no moisture. Best time to dig is Feb/Mar.

[Matthew92]

Got 1.45 in. of rain last week. Really helped alleviate our drought. Now we have to endure another week+ of dry, sinking, continental air before a small chance of rain this Friday... For being right on the Gulf Coast, it's odd how much of a lack of humid air from the Gulf we've had this late summer/fall as all the dry continental air from the Northwest has been pushed down to our region continually. The times we've had flow come up from the Gulf has been far between and only lasts a few days at a time before the dry air spills back down from the N or NW.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Matthew92

[Matthew92]

Going over a week now with no rain and none on the horizon. Ughhh.... I am welcoming this coming pattern with open arms...

[flplantguy]

Hawaii looks bad on that for drought.  Hopefully nothing crazy here this year and just rain but I'm a little apprehensive this year.

[SeanK]

1 hour ago, Matthew92 said:

Going over a week now with no rain and none on the horizon. Ughhh.... I am welcoming this coming pattern with open arms...

Looks promising. Naples to Cedar Key could use it.

[SubTropicRay]

The colors are brightening....

[SubTropicRay]

    El Niño who?  

[SubTropicRay]

Pinellas County and the NW Panhandle are now firmly RED.  I also didn't realize any portion of Dade County was affected.  The red blob over Manatee and Sarasota counties is also creeping east.

 

[flplantguy]

I wonder how much the drought is impacting the current dew points being so low over that part of Florida.  My area down to Pinellas has dew points around 40 while everywhere else in the state is over 50 and south Florida is above 70.  With radiational cooling being so efficient over the dry sand it worries me for winter.

[kinzyjr]

1 hour ago, flplantguy said:

I wonder how much the drought is impacting the current dew points being so low over that part of Florida.  My area down to Pinellas has dew points around 40 while everywhere else in the state is over 50 and south Florida is above 70.  With radiational cooling being so efficient over the dry sand it worries me for winter.

It would be an interesting metric to quantify.  Cross your fingers we don't get a zinger this winter.  These dry years when the ground starts getting powdery is usually when we're most susceptible.

[flplantguy]

I wonder how much irrigation would be needed to prevent that big drop at night with soil moisture. We do better there than inland by 5 to 6 degrees on normal radiational nights, it's 42 there and 48+ here in the open now.  The last three hours are the big drop maybe irrigating the yard beforehand will help.

[kinzyjr]

12 minutes ago, flplantguy said:

I wonder how much irrigation would be needed to prevent that big drop at night with soil moisture. We do better there than inland by 5 to 6 degrees on normal radiational nights, it's 42 there and 48+ here in the open now.  The last three hours are the big drop maybe irrigating the yard beforehand will help.

I saw that @SubTropicRay had mentioned soaking the yard to see if it helped as well.  The water does resist change in temperature better than dry soil, and fresh water has a higher heat capacity than salt water.  If your water is filtered, it should get rid of most of the contaminants that would lower the heat capacity.  This video demonstrates wet soil resisting temperature change better than dry soil, but in the opposite direction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kPsc6N2MiA

A few caveats though:

• If you have sandy soil, it may not stay moist long.
• If you had a few warm days for the moisture in the soil to warm up, it may amplify the effect.
  • Unfortunately, a lot of it could evaporate or drain down lower into the ground then.
• If you have plants that are sensitive to wet cold in the root zone, you may give them root rot.

I'd recommend doing the experiment in an area where there isn't much to  lose first, or at least on a night where "cold" is above 45F.  If you do this, let us know what you find.

[flplantguy]

I can probably do something like that.  The tempest station is in an area that is open, and will be the driveway and septic drain field, so no plantings will go there.  I may get thicker weeds and native plants but that would help not hinder the effect I think (and will find out). I'm planning on having native herbaceous butterfly attractors there, so I will add irrigation nearby for that and try it out.

[Aceraceae]

On 11/5/2023 at 7:25 AM, flplantguy said:

I wonder how much irrigation would be needed to prevent that big drop at night with soil moisture. We do better there than inland by 5 to 6 degrees on normal radiational nights, it's 42 there and 48+ here in the open now.  The last three hours are the big drop maybe irrigating the yard beforehand will help.

One inch of water over an acre is 27,000 gallons, wet cold could be bad for some plants, and on such a small scale it might actually cool the spot or cause a wetter freeze or frost, raising the humidity more than the dew point by bringing the temperature down. 

[flplantguy]

8 hours ago, Aceraceae said:

One inch of water over an acre is 27,000 gallons, wet cold could be bad for some plants, and on such a small scale it might actually cool the spot or cause a wetter freeze or frost, raising the humidity more than the dew point by bringing the temperature down. 

Timing would be key if I try it, no clouds and wind but the sunny day right before so it could absorb the warmth and maybe hold it that night.  Almost 2/3 of the acre is dense forest, but this sensor is the low spot that is open (and sand) so it will show the coldest reading. This morning it was 49.6, with the sensors under the trees and by the house showing almost 52, so it has the cold disadvantage by design- so I don't get a rosy opinion of the yard's hardiness zone lol.  I have had orchids get cold rain and seen the results, so I want to avoid that and anything under cover will go without anyway so no plants will be touched just to see the data.  most of the palms I have are understory to start or want dry soil with cold anyway.

[SubTropicRay]

The CPC is showing some long term relief   In the meantime, the beat goes on.....

[flplantguy]

I just checked the GFS accumulated precip modeled through the 25th and it shows a bullseye of... You guessed it.... dry amounts right over the state with higher amounts on either side.  The floridarabian peninsula over here😭 lol even the viburnum hedges are wilting at the office.

[aabell]

2 hours ago, flplantguy said:

I just checked the GFS accumulated precip modeled through the 25th and it shows a bullseye of... You guessed it.... dry amounts right over the state with higher amounts on either side.  The floridarabian peninsula over here😭 lol even the viburnum hedges are wilting at the office.

 

[SFLP48584]

No kidding aabell and Ray, the dryness is getting ridiculous.  I don't have sprinklers so it is a hastle and I'm not quite keeping up.

-John

[SubTropicRay]

From the NWS Tampa Bay office....

"For Tuesday through Thursday next week the forecast is beginning
to look a little wetter. Models have come into better agreement
in bringing an open shortwave across the southern U.S. with a weak
area of low pressure moving across the northern gulf while high
pressure holds over the Mid-Atlantic states. This should bring us
some deeper moisture and better chances for showers, but the
pattern would still favor the eastern half of the Florida
peninsula for the highest rain chances and rainfall amounts." 

[kinzyjr]

Hopefully the folks closer to the Gulf got some rain.  The ground was pretty well parched here, but we've just cleared half an inch of rain and still going.

[flplantguy]

28 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

Hopefully the folks closer to the Gulf got some rain.  The ground was pretty well parched here, but we've just cleared half an inch of rain and still going.

I had no idea anyone got rain.  My radar app shut down since I haven't opened it in a long time.  Just opened it to more of the same.

[kinzyjr]

10 hours ago, flplantguy said:

I had no idea anyone got rain.  My radar app shut down since I haven't opened it in a long time.  Just opened it to more of the same.

Checked the radar after your comment and saw one little yellow blotch sitting right over southcentral lakeland with a green border and not much else.  Looks like we got over 2" of rain in total last night into the morning, so that's our quota for the month of November.

[Steve the palmreader]

11 hours ago, flplantguy said:

I had no idea anyone got rain.  My radar app shut down since I haven't opened it in a long time.  Just opened it to more of the same.

I received Almost 1 inch on Pine Island Saturday evening 

[D. Morrowii]

We received an unexpected but respectable .25” late Friday night. 

[SubTropicRay]

I got an expected 0" of rain last week and fairly certain there's more nothing on the way.  Not sure what it's going to take to break out of this. The last water bill was $396 and thinking there's nothing preventing more of the same garbage next month. 

[D. Morrowii]

1 hour ago, SubTropicRay said:

I got an expected 0" of rain last week and fairly certain there's more nothing on the way.  Not sure what it's going to take to break out of this. The last water bill was $396 and thinking there's nothing preventing more of the same garbage next month. 

Well I hope you get something out of this Wed/Thurs thing at least. 

[SubTropicRay]

More of the same.

 

[Looking Glass]

36 minutes ago, SubTropicRay said:

More of the same.

You’ve got to be getting something from this rain sandwich that is happening over Florida the next few days.  

 The radar is weird.  Something coming in from the west, while rains come off the ocean from the east-northeast.   After a month of nothing, we got a nice, steady, soaking rain over the past day with more to come for a few days.  This will probably push us over 100 inches for the year, which is kind of crazy, but welcome.  

Edited November 14, 2023 by Looking Glass

[flplantguy]

Clouds are the best we will get from it I think.  Anytime this time of year where the chance is 50% or less it's not much even if it does rain, so I wouldn't even turn off my irrigation if I had any in yet.  Kinda glad this happened my first year here with less in the ground to water.  Maybe next year the pattern will switch and we get soaked.

[SubTropicRay]

3 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

You’ve got to be getting something from this rain sandwich that is happening over Florida the next few days.  

 The radar is weird.  Something coming in from the west, while rains come off the ocean from the east-northeast.   After a month of nothing, we got a nice, steady, soaking rain over the past day with more to come for a few days.  This will probably push us over 100 inches for the year, which is kind of crazy, but welcome.  

It's a believe it when I see it type of thing.  There have been plenty of "can't miss" scenarios this year  

[Looking Glass]

4 hours ago, SubTropicRay said:

It's a believe it when I see it type of thing.  There have been plenty of "can't miss" scenarios this year  

You’ve got to be getting something good.  There’s a line of strong storms coming up through us right up to you.  The neighborhood is now flooded out a bit.  Rain got really heavy and standing water covered the entire street out front today. 

[flplantguy]

Something is happening outside. I walked out to check plants and there was stuff coming down from the sky. Does anyone know why water would fall from clouds? Lol it's not much but I got a tenth of an inch here.  The best was, as usual, inland and a bit south of me so. So far at least.

[Looking Glass]

The weather forecasts are kind of hilarious.  We were forecast for 0.5 inches today….  Got about 5 inches instead, and just got an automated emergency alert call saying another 5-8 inches is expected over the next day.

[kinzyjr]

2 hours ago, flplantguy said:

Something is happening outside. I walked out to check plants and there was stuff coming down from the sky. Does anyone know why water would fall from clouds? Lol it's not much but I got a tenth of an inch here.  The best was, as usual, inland and a bit south of me so. So far at least.

LOL!!!!!

 

Got another quarter inch of rain today.  Might be a record for November to have two rain events.  We normally get below 2" of rain this month.  As far as west and south of us...

[PalmatierMeg]

I’ve been living in Tampa for most of the past 2 months. Yesterday it actually rained; don’t know how much (our Airbnb has no rain gauge). Late last week I went back to Cape Coral to check out the homestead. We received 1.75” of needed rain (but none in Tampa)

[SubTropicRay]

 Yes, lawn watering has new restrictions.  Glad I don't have a lawn 😉