Spring after the worst winter in middle TN in 30+ years

[teddytn]

Not all the plants at my house, but wanted to point some things out. We hit an ultimate low of -4f followed the next day by a high of -1f and a low that next night of -2f. Then 3 more days that we didn’t go above freezing. Sudden really low drops not such a big deal when It warms back up quickly. This was a prolonged deep freeze like you would see farther north of here. The only palms that outright died were 2 smaller Trachycarpus fortunei, 2 smaller sized Trachycarpus Takil, and 1 Serenoa repens ‘silver’. Nothing received any heat. 
 

This was a real surprise that it survived, completely defoliated, covered with a tall 7 gallon bucket. All the green it pushed out so far this spring. 
Sabal mexicana
Double Sabal palmetto, completely defoliated, covered with a 5 gallon bucket. Double Sabal minor from Gary’s in NC. This was a surprise in the opposite direction, this took a serious hit, completely defoliated, no protection. I would have bet these would have brushed it off. Hard to tell in the pic, these were really old palms. Tried to get an angle to show the heels on them. Planted this whole bed of different sabals last year. Didn’t lose any, all got covered with 5 gallon buckets. 3 NC minors, mccurtain, 3 brazorias, Blackburniana, palmetto, Birmingham. This is where you can see the difference, big established needle palm, cold is literally not a problem, this is away from the house with no canopy. Biggest needle palm, looks a little raggedy, we had really bad wind storms this year as well. Took the cold like a champ. Smallest needle palm, lost the center trunk, this is common in my experience, the offsets will live on and fill in, in years to come. This is under a huge pine tree More surprises. 5 big NC Sabal minors, took heavy damage, these are planted in a variety of scenarios, full sun, part sun, full shade. All similar damage. These got no protection. Elephant ears, cannas, Musa basjoo all survived and pushing. These got no extra mulch. Other than needle palms, these 2 take the crown as the least damaged palms. This is not an Uber dwarf, but a super small/ dwarf Sabal minor none the less. Virtually undamaged. Sabal minor mccurtain, planted against the house, still looking amazing. Minor spotting on some leaves. I had assumed the next two were both Birminghams as that’s what I bought them as. After this winter it’s clearly obvious these are not built the same lol. This takes 2nd place for least damaged Sabal, this is most likely a Sabal louisiana. This used to be bigger than the previous palm. Easily over 6’ tall overall, got completely defoliated, no protection. Pushed all this green so far this spring. Sabal Birmingham 2 more sabal Louisianas, both got a bucket, not much damageSabal palmetto, had a trash can over this one. It was as big as the mccurtain. This has good genetics, I’m looking forward to seeing what this looks like in a few years. Pushed all this since springThe only trachy that survived. Planted this last fall, 15 gallon wagnerianus. Wrapped with frost cloth, then a canvas drop cloth, and then a plastic tarp. Completely defoliated, pushed the green since spring started. Sabal Brazoria, big 5 gallon, first winter. Frost cloth and a big trash bag, fully defoliated. New growth thoughHave 5 more of those small/ dwarf minors planted around the yard, all got no protection and took the cold like a champ. Take or leave my recommendations. The upright/ trunking plants that look the best at my house right now are the yuccas. I have 15-20 different ones planted around the yard. This winter definitely reminded me to diversify my beds and make sure to fill in around palms with super hardy plants. Definitely don’t want a whole bed wiped out and have to start from scratch. Going to take this year to fill in a bunch of holes with flowering plants as well. That Birmingham used to dominate this bed, now looking sparse on the right. Good thing that yucca gloriosa, Sabal minor mccurtain look decent and the big opuntia in front are still holding it together. There’s 5 palms in this bed, looking pretty thin at the moment. That lavender survived and is coming back surprisingly, salvia is the only thing flowering, need to get some more flowers planted this year. This bed didn’t fail to surprise either. All desert/ succulent plants for the most part. Total through the yard I lost 7 agaves, though some survived. 6 survived. Those 2 ovatifolias clearly visible, took zero damage with only a blanket over them. There’s a parryi truncata in there that survived as well. Most other cactus and succulents I have are tough as nails, not a surprise they survived. Want a trunking palm like plant for zone 7a and colder, definitely consider a yucca rostrata or rigida. Here’s my biggest rostratas, zero damage from the cold. We had 75 mph winds and had to have our roof replaced, I instantly knew thought that cylindropuntia imbricata was a goner, not so much took the cold like a champ and stood strong against the wind. No protection on any yuccas if I didn’t already mention that.This is another agave/ yucca strip that’s fairly new. Didn’t lose any yuccas here, lost 4 agaves though. Yuccas that lived - hesperaloe, rigida, rostrata, gloriosa, baccata. Lost 2 agave montanas, 1 parryi. In that other bed I lost 1 montana, 1 parryi truncata, 1 gentryi jaws. The agaves that did survive in this bed - lechuguilla, gracilipes, neomexicana.2 palmettos on each side of this bed covered with a sheet and then a garbage bag, both defoliated. Pushed that green since spring. The Serenoa repens was in the middle replaced with a cycas panzihuaensis. Lost 3 Trachycarpus in a row planted right up against the east side of the house. Replaced with a Sabal riverside and 2 palmettos. Lost an old lavender, kinda hurt my heart if I’m honest. Had that for 10 years lol, opened up a good spot against the house, replaced with a Sabal miamiensisLord Buddha meditated through the winter no problem, kindly moved him over and planted a Sabal Brazoria The next 2 have permanent overhead cover, they’re planted in beds under my raised deck. Initially wasn’t sure how these would do here, so they got super protected spots. Sabal etonia, got a bucket, not too much damage.Sabal Tamaulipas, first winter, under the deck, with a bucket, almost completely defoliated, but survived. Pushed this raggedy leaf so far this year. Happy it’s alive. My main points here if there are any. Make sabals and needles the main palms of a cold hardy garden. Diversify your beds with tough plants that will keep your yard looking decent until the palms recover. Plant with the worst winter your area can possibly get in mind. From there of course experiment and zone push, making sure you’ve got a good backbone planting that will survive the worst winters firmly established first. 

 

Edited April 16, 2023 by teddytn

[PaPalmTrees]

Looking good  

[Quasarecho]

4 hours ago, teddytn said:

Not all the plants at my house, but wanted to point some things out. We hit an ultimate low of -4f followed the next day by a high of -1f and a low that next night of -2f. Then 3 more days that we didn’t go above freezing. Sudden really low drops not such a big deal when It warms back up quickly. This was a prolonged deep freeze like you would see farther north of here. The only palms that outright died were 2 smaller Trachycarpus fortunei, 2 smaller sized Trachycarpus Takil, and 1 Serenoa repens ‘silver’. Nothing received any heat. 
 

This was a real surprise that it survived, completely defoliated, covered with a tall 7 gallon bucket. All the green it pushed out so far this spring. 
Sabal mexicana
Double Sabal palmetto, completely defoliated, covered with a 5 gallon bucket. Double Sabal minor from Gary’s in NC. This was a surprise in the opposite direction, this took a serious hit, completely defoliated, no protection. I would have bet these would have brushed it off. Hard to tell in the pic, these were really old palms. Tried to get an angle to show the heels on them. Planted this whole bed of different sabals last year. Didn’t lose any, all got covered with 5 gallon buckets. 3 NC minors, mccurtain, 3 brazorias, Blackburniana, palmetto, Birmingham. This is where you can see the difference, big established needle palm, cold is literally not a problem, this is away from the house with no canopy. Biggest needle palm, looks a little raggedy, we had really bad wind storms this year as well. Took the cold like a champ. Smallest needle palm, lost the center trunk, this is common in my experience, the offsets will live on and fill in, in years to come. This is under a huge pine tree More surprises. 5 big NC Sabal minors, took heavy damage, these are planted in a variety of scenarios, full sun, part sun, full shade. All similar damage. These got no protection. Elephant ears, cannas, Musa basjoo all survived and pushing. These got no extra mulch. Other than needle palms, these 2 take the crown as the least damaged palms. This is not an Uber dwarf, but a super small/ dwarf Sabal minor none the less. Virtually undamaged. Sabal minor mccurtain, planted against the house, still looking amazing. Minor spotting on some leaves. I had assumed the next two were both Birminghams as that’s what I bought them as. After this winter it’s clearly obvious these are not built the same lol. This takes 2nd place for least damaged Sabal, this is most likely a Sabal louisiana. This used to be bigger than the previous palm. Easily over 6’ tall overall, got completely defoliated, no protection. Pushed all this green so far this spring. Sabal Birmingham 2 more sabal Louisianas, both got a bucket, not much damageSabal palmetto, had a trash can over this one. It was as big as the mccurtain. This has good genetics, I’m looking forward to seeing what this looks like in a few years. Pushed all this since springThe only trachy that survived. Planted this last fall, 15 gallon wagnerianus. Wrapped with frost cloth, then a canvas drop cloth, and then a plastic tarp. Completely defoliated, pushed the green since spring started. Sabal Brazoria, big 5 gallon, first winter. Frost cloth and a big trash bag, fully defoliated. New growth thoughHave 5 more of those small/ dwarf minors planted around the yard, all got no protection and took the cold like a champ. Take or leave my recommendations. The upright/ trunking plants that look the best at my house right now are the yuccas. I have 15-20 different ones planted around the yard. This winter definitely reminded me to diversify my beds and make sure to fill in around palms with super hardy plants. Definitely don’t want a whole bed wiped out and have to start from scratch. Going to take this year to fill in a bunch of holes with flowering plants as well. That Birmingham used to dominate this bed, now looking sparse on the right. Good thing that yucca gloriosa, Sabal minor mccurtain look decent and the big opuntia in front are still holding it together. There’s 5 palms in this bed, looking pretty thin at the moment. That lavender survived and is coming back surprisingly, salvia is the only thing flowering, need to get some more flowers planted this year. This bed didn’t fail to surprise either. All desert/ succulent plants for the most part. Total through the yard I lost 7 agaves, though some survived. 6 survived. Those 2 ovatifolias clearly visible, took zero damage with only a blanket over them. There’s a parryi truncata in there that survived as well. Most other cactus and succulents I have are tough as nails, not a surprise they survived. Want a trunking palm like plant for zone 7a and colder, definitely consider a yucca rostrata or rigida. Here’s my biggest rostratas, zero damage from the cold. We had 75 mph winds and had to have our roof replaced, I instantly knew thought that cylindropuntia imbricata was a goner, not so much took the cold like a champ and stood strong against the wind. No protection on any yuccas if I didn’t already mention that.This is another agave/ yucca strip that’s fairly new. Didn’t lose any yuccas here, lost 4 agaves though. Yuccas that lived - hesperaloe, rigida, rostrata, gloriosa, baccata. Lost 2 agave montanas, 1 parryi. In that other bed I lost 1 montana, 1 parryi truncata, 1 gentryi jaws. The agaves that did survive in this bed - lechuguilla, gracilipes, neomexicana.2 palmettos on each side of this bed covered with a sheet and then a garbage bag, both defoliated. Pushed that green since spring. The Serenoa repens was in the middle replaced with a cycas panzihuaensis. Lost 3 Trachycarpus in a row planted right up against the east side of the house. Replaced with a Sabal riverside and 2 palmettos. Lost an old lavender, kinda hurt my heart if I’m honest. Had that for 10 years lol, opened up a good spot against the house, replaced with a Sabal miamiensisLord Buddha meditated through the winter no problem, kindly moved him over and planted a Sabal Brazoria The next 2 have permanent overhead cover, they’re planted in beds under my raised deck. Initially wasn’t sure how these would do here, so they got super protected spots. Sabal etonia, got a bucket, not too much damage.Sabal Tamaulipas, first winter, under the deck, with a bucket, almost completely defoliated, but survived. Pushed this raggedy leaf so far this year. Happy it’s alive. My main points here if there are any. Make sabals and needles the main palms of a cold hardy garden. Diversify your beds with tough plants that will keep your yard looking decent until the palms recover. Plant with the worst winter your area can possibly get in mind. From there of course experiment and zone push, making sure you’ve got a good backbone planting that will survive the worst winters firmly established first. 

 

Needles look great. I'm a bit further north and mine is pushing out new fronds. 

Do you know what variety of opuntia you're showing? Looks exactly like mine that came from close to Chattanooga. I have yet to figure our which variety it is. Thanks

[teddytn]

5 minutes ago, Quasarecho said:

Needles look great. I'm a bit further north and mine is pushing out new fronds. 

Do you know what variety of opuntia you're showing? Looks exactly like mine that came from close to Chattanooga. I have yet to figure our which variety it is. Thanks

It took me quite awhile to try and pin it down myself. That all started from one pad believe it or not. If I’m not mistaken it’s opuntia engelmanii or opuntia lindheimeri. These were synonymous previously, but separate species now. The pads get huge, it has gotten 5’ tall numerous times before it lays down in the winter then takes a few years to get that tall again. Another state south and it may stay erect all year. Super hardy regardless for a larger type opuntia. 

[westfork]

Thanks for all the information, it really helps in deciding what plants to try.  We also are experimenting with many western yucca species as well as the high elevation cold hardy agaves and some dasylirion.  Completely separate beds than the palms since the moisture requirements are so different.   We get half the precipitation you do, and almost never see rain in winter, so the very xeric but cold tolerant desert plants are worth trying in raised beds of mostly rock on a south slope and given some protection from the intense winter sun.  Always an adventure!

[Jubaea_James760]

Great documentation of your yard, my minds blown lol! I can't believe you had very minimal casualties with that type of cold you experienced, truly amazing!  100% agree with establishing your yard with plants hardy to your zone /bullet proofs as the foundational premise even though I'm like 70%(bullet proof) /30%( experiment) 😂 , 80/20 would have been better...

Congrats Teddy! I look forward to updates as things start to regrow 👍

[teddytn]

7 hours ago, westfork said:

Thanks for all the information, it really helps in deciding what plants to try.  We also are experimenting with many western yucca species as well as the high elevation cold hardy agaves and some dasylirion.  Completely separate beds than the palms since the moisture requirements are so different.   We get half the precipitation you do, and almost never see rain in winter, so the very xeric but cold tolerant desert plants are worth trying in raised beds of mostly rock on a south slope and given some protection from the intense winter sun.  Always an adventure!

I’ve got 4 favorite plant families palms, agave, yucca, cactus. I can’t grow a ton of palms, but I can make up for it with cool plants from other groups. I forgot to add that in, have a dasylirion leiophyllum that survived with no protection, really excited for that one. I got 2 new yuccas to try treculeana, and torryei. You should have better luck with all those 3 families than I do, yeah you’re exactly right, not usually the cold that will do them in, it’s the moisture. @Merlynhas mentioned a few times agaves he’s lost because of moisture and he’s in Florida. If you’ve never checked them out go to coldhardycactus.com I’ve bought a bunch from him over the years. They’re located in Denver and I believe actually grow most of the species they sell in ground at their place as well as cultivate them for sale. 

[PalmatierMeg]

Your yard looks great after those brutal temps. The needle palms look amazing and the Sabals will come roaring back now the weather is warming.

[Sabal King]

Honestly, I think you're doing this totally wrong.  You need to be planting at least zone 9+ palms in that yard to start, then maybe throw a sabal or two out in the patio area, but only in pots.  When you get those zone 9 palms, make sure you insulate them real good, water the ground all winter to not let the ground freeze.  Personally i can't believe you posted all of those pictures and I don't see a single Washingtonia robusta in the ground, or even a foxtail.

Totally disappointed Teddy.....

[ChicagoPalma]

15 minutes ago, Sabal King said:

Honestly, I think you're doing this totally wrong.  You need to be planting at least zone 9+ palms in that yard to start, then maybe throw a sabal or two out in the patio area, but only in pots.  When you get those zone 9 palms, make sure you insulate them real good, water the ground all winter to not let the ground freeze.  Personally i can't believe you posted all of those pictures and I don't see a single Washingtonia robusta in the ground, or even a foxtail.

Totally disappointed Teddy.....

I don't know a lot about sabals but i think they are more cold hardy than washingtonias, but im not an expert on them and you did name yourself sabal king and you grow a lot of sabals so you probably know more than me, but i thought sabals were more hardier than washingtonias and a foxtail

[westfork]

9 minutes ago, ChicagoPalma said:

I don't know a lot about sabals but i think they are more cold hardy than washingtonias, but im not an expert on them and you did name yourself sabal king and you grow a lot of sabals so you probably know more than me, but i thought sabals were more hardier than washingtonias and a foxtail

He is making a suggestion (probably a bit tongue-in cheek) to push the limits to see what can survive in the area.  Encouraging bold behavior and then planning the next step based on the consequences.  Explore the unknown and test conventional wisdom.
Teddy planting higher zone rated palms would be comparable to you and I planting virtually any palms in our areas.

[teddytn]

31 minutes ago, Sabal King said:

Honestly, I think you're doing this totally wrong.  You need to be planting at least zone 9+ palms in that yard to start, then maybe throw a sabal or two out in the patio area, but only in pots.  When you get those zone 9 palms, make sure you insulate them real good, water the ground all winter to not let the ground freeze.  Personally i can't believe you posted all of those pictures and I don't see a single Washingtonia robusta in the ground, or even a foxtail.

Totally disappointed Teddy.....

What do you recommend, tear everything out and start over? 

[PalmatierMeg]

15 minutes ago, ChicagoPalma said:

I don't know a lot about sabals but i think they are more cold hardy than washingtonias, but im not an expert on them and you did name yourself sabal king and you grow a lot of sabals so you probably know more than me, but i thought sabals were more hardier than washingtonias and a foxtail

Absolutely cold hardier, esp. if one of the Sabal minors. Washies are in trouble below 20F. Foxtails are 9b palms if not given supplemental protection and heat. No Sabal is more varied than S minor which comes in forms from so-called “giants” to what I call “uber dwarfs.” You can landscape a whole yard with Sabal minors.

[Sabal King]

26 minutes ago, teddytn said:

What do you recommend, tear everything out and start over? 

Absolutely.  I think you just need to start totally over and really start with great palms like 

Hyophorbe lagenicaulis

 

Once you get bottle palms planted, then probably dypsis, and like I said, foxtail should be your #1.  Get ready to build a bio-dome for more tender palms, so start partnering with a local construction company.

[teddytn]

39 minutes ago, Sabal King said:

Absolutely.  I think you just need to start totally over and really start with great palms like 

Hyophorbe lagenicaulis

 

Once you get bottle palms planted, then probably dypsis, and like I said, foxtail should be your #1.  Get ready to build a bio-dome for more tender palms, so start partnering with a local construction company.

This is some of that new way of thinking. Plant palms according to what I feel my zone is, not what it actually is!!! 🤣🤦🏼‍♂️

[Allen]

Awesome update!

Trunking Sabals when young have a higher perceived hardiness due to the growing point staying below ground and benefitting greatly from the ground heat.  Once the Sabal palm trunks and the growing point is above ground the true survival temp will be closer to the defoliation temp of the palm. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Allen

[teddytn]

13 minutes ago, Allen said:

Trunking Sabals when young have a higher perceived hardiness due to the growing point staying below ground and benefitting greatly from the ground heat.  Once the Sabal palm trunks and the growing point is above ground the true hardiness will be closer to the defoliation temp of the palm. 

Good point and definitely true. I think when a trunking Sabal gets to maximum girth/ mass trunk wise it’s able to withstand brief dips even very cold temps for short durations. But the temps we saw, prolonged negatives and single digits, tough sell saying anything unprotected with a trunk would survive, seems like the trunk would freeze solid. Let’s hope we swing back towards the 7b temps we’ve been seeing lol. How’s your sabals looking? Palmetto, Birminghams, Louisiana, Brazoria? 

[Allen]

14 minutes ago, teddytn said:

Good point and definitely true. I think when a trunking Sabal gets to maximum girth/ mass trunk wise it’s able to withstand brief dips even very cold temps for short durations. But the temps we saw, prolonged negatives and single digits, tough sell saying anything unprotected with a trunk would survive, seems like the trunk would freeze solid. Let’s hope we swing back towards the 7b temps we’ve been seeing lol. How’s your sabals looking? Palmetto, Birminghams, Louisiana, Brazoria? 

The brazoria is doing great and big and one birmingham.   Palmetto was heated so...  Unheated Louisiana closest to death but pushing.  2 Birmingham pushing with about 1 green frond each but close to death.  

Here is the unheated ones (Frost cloth wrap)

brazoria

Birmingham

Birmingham

Birmingham

S. minor "Louisiana"

Edited April 17, 2023 by Allen

[westfork]

11 hours ago, teddytn said:

I’ve got 4 favorite plant families palms, agave, yucca, cactus. I can’t grow a ton of palms, but I can make up for it with cool plants from other groups. I forgot to add that in, have a dasylirion leiophyllum that survived with no protection, really excited for that one. I got 2 new yuccas to try treculeana, and torryei. You should have better luck with all those 3 families than I do, yeah you’re exactly right, not usually the cold that will do them in, it’s the moisture. @Merlynhas mentioned a few times agaves he’s lost because of moisture and he’s in Florida. If you’ve never checked them out go to coldhardycactus.com I’ve bought a bunch from him over the years. They’re located in Denver and I believe actually grow most of the species they sell in ground at their place as well as cultivate them for sale. 

I have a few dasylirion leiophyllum to plant this spring.  I really like their form and they have been bombproof their first year in pots.  They are from seed collected at 5450' in New Mexico by the late David Salman and were sold by PDN.  They are calling it a 5a plant, and since it comes from a monsoon area claim it may be a bit more moisture tolerant.  Trying their Yucca Torreyi from the same collection area also claimed to be a 5a. 

Our climate is close to Denver's, and use the long term success of gardeners there to see what might work here on a well drained site.   We are in the western Midwest but within the native range of yucca glauca.   Been trying plants by Cold Hardy Cactus and Ethical Desert for some time now.  At least they have a long record of what works along the Front Range.  Cactus are easy here, but I have tried to nuke most of our opuntia since they get invasive in the lawns and everywhere else.  Experimenting with more of the hardy ball type cactus, and a few cholla since I guess I never learn my lesson.

[teddytn]

On 4/17/2023 at 1:33 AM, Jubaea_James760 said:

Great documentation of your yard, my minds blown lol! I can't believe you had very minimal casualties with that type of cold you experienced, truly amazing!  100% agree with establishing your yard with plants hardy to your zone /bullet proofs as the foundational premise even though I'm like 70%(bullet proof) /30%( experiment) 😂 , 80/20 would have been better...

Congrats Teddy! I look forward to updates as things start to regrow 👍

Think you blew some minds with your yard post last year. Speaking for everyone, we would like an update this year please 😁👀

[Sabal King]

10 hours ago, teddytn said:

Think you blew some minds with your yard post last year. Speaking for everyone, we would like an update this year please 😁👀

Clearly you two understand my sarcasm here and in rare air with y'all.  Teddy, you're an inspiration brother!

[Alex Zone 5]

On 4/17/2023 at 9:45 AM, Sabal King said:

Honestly, I think you're doing this totally wrong.  You need to be planting at least zone 9+ palms in that yard to start, then maybe throw a sabal or two out in the patio area, but only in pots.  When you get those zone 9 palms, make sure you insulate them real good, water the ground all winter to not let the ground freeze.  Personally i can't believe you posted all of those pictures and I don't see a single Washingtonia robusta in the ground, or even a foxtail.

Totally disappointed Teddy.....

🙀🙀 you forgot the mighty Bismarck...c'mon its a really hardy palm. With a minimum of 2 space heater, some lumber/styrofoam panels/screws/fingers crossed.....I believe it could work out.👍😁😁

[Sabal King]

Just now, Alex Zone 5 said:

🙀🙀 you forgot the mighty Bismarck...c'mon its a really hardy palm. With a minimum of 2 space heater, some lumber/styrofoam panels/screws/fingers crossed.....I believe it could work out.👍😁😁

LOL finally someone who understands my sarcasm.... maybe work on a genetic cross of a bizzie and a sabal minor.. gene splicing technology! lol

[jwitt]

Amazing recovery on many of your palms.

cylindropuntia imbricata is a very hardy cactus. This pic is in habitat, zone 5.  These cactus pictured survived unfazed @-34f with highs below zero! This pic is about 5 years post that event.

yours is nice! Not really a "term" I often use describing cholla!

[Alex Zone 5]

2 hours ago, Sabal King said:

LOL finally someone who understands my sarcasm.... maybe work on a genetic cross of a bizzie and a sabal minor.. gene splicing technology! lol

Exactly, let's create a hybrid buddy😉😉   We should get started as soon as possible, we'll make a shitload of cash$$$. 🤣🤣🤣

[teddytn]

56 minutes ago, Alex Zone 5 said:

Exactly, let's create a hybrid buddy😉😉   We should get started as soon as possible, we'll make a shitload of cash$$$. 🤣🤣🤣

 

3 hours ago, Sabal King said:

LOL finally someone who understands my sarcasm.... maybe work on a genetic cross of a bizzie and a sabal minor.. gene splicing technology! lol

Palms aren’t a joking matter guys!!! This is a serious forum. I don’t appreciate you messing around on my topic. But seriously send me that bizzie minor from the first batch! 🙏🏻🤙🏻🤣😂

[amh]

4 hours ago, Sabal King said:

LOL finally someone who understands my sarcasm.... maybe work on a genetic cross of a bizzie and a sabal minor.. gene splicing technology! lol

I'm still waiting for someone to make a hybrid of Nannorrhops ritchiana and Tahina spectabilis.

[amh]

There have been some interesting winters over the past few years; while stressful and trying, the cold hardiness data is invaluable.

Glad you had so many survivors.

[Alex Zone 5]

6 hours ago, teddytn said:

 

Palms aren’t a joking matter guys!!! This is a serious forum. I don’t appreciate you messing around on my topic. But seriously send me that bizzie minor from the first batch! 🙏🏻🤙🏻🤣😂

Yep, palms are serious your right 👍Some are just trying to reinvent palm growing.  Stating that they will bury heat cables and so on.....

I'll definitely will be looking at some yucca since yours are looking so good 👍  

Please do update, I've enjoyed looking at your pictures. Thanks.

 

 

[Jubaea_James760]

On 4/18/2023 at 9:53 AM, teddytn said:

Think you blew some minds with your yard post last year. Speaking for everyone, we would like an update this year please 😁👀

Haha thanks! I'll do one in summer 😁

[L.A.M.]

I don't know how to share photos from my phone. Nonetheless, I had a bad feeling too once I knew we were going to get below zero in December 2022. Thankfully, I was wrong. My dwarf palmetto was damaged but, even though planted in a floodplain with slight temperature inversions, only lost half of its leaves and ended up growing a barely noticeable bit by the end of January 2023 (which was super mild). It got to -2 degrees Fahrenheit here in western Putnam County (I live along the escarpment near Buffalo Valley) with a high of only 2 the subsequent afternoon (which was also the low the next morning). My needle palm didn't get damaged at all, unlike my southern magnolia which took a similarly mild beating to my dwarf palmetto and Carolina cherry laurels which basically had to regrow from the last few inches above the ground. Despite my uneasy feeling, I didn't protect any of it because I still knew deep down I could probably weather it and wanted to know for sure.

Moral of the story: Don't panic if your dwarf palmettos get some damage. As long as they retain some green and continue growing the following spring, they should be fine. Needle palms should be even better off than some things that are actually commonly planted. Chinese windmill palms are NOT the most cold-hardy palm in the world; our native needle palms and dwarf palmettos and several hybrids/subspecies of the latter are much more reliably cold-hardy in Zones 7a and 7b in inland subtropical North America.

Edited August 31, 2023 by L.A.M.

[teddytn]

Really good growing season following the bad winter. A lot of consistent rainfall, almost would have wanted more heat for the sabals, didn’t have nearly as many 90f and above days as we did last summer. 
 

I still highly recommend trunking yuccas for everyone that is 7a and colder that won’t need protection. Three rostratas on the right, in that little spot on the left under the down spout I had a small windmill palm, replaced it with a yucca treculeana. This area always builds up over the summer with potted plants 😅In that raised bed these 2 palmettos were completely defoliated this one has grown back 4 larger normal looking leavesThis one grew 5 but appears that it’s still battling to throw a normal leaf 🤔Tamaulipas completely defoliated put out 3 so far, still young. Etonia about 50% damaged came back strong, still youngBiggest needle palm, you can see the tip damage it has on some leaves. I’ve been waiting for a leaf to touch the deck, it’s over 9’ tall and 10’ wide in some places nowBig Louisiana really negligible damage, need to get more seeds from this guy started. Birmingham completely defoliated pushed 3 huge leaves out so far, glad it didn’t dieView going up the driveway, Birmingham on the right in that bed, Mccurtain next to it, took so minimal damage basically zero. I’m going to plant more of those in the future and most definitely start growing every seed it produces. Varigated yucca gloriosa ended up losing its main trunk, rotted near the base. You can see two offsets in there. Next bed up the driveway. Palmetto back right completely defoliated, pushed out 3 good leaves. Middle back waggie completely defoliated, pushed a green spear and then spear pulled, ended up pushing out 6 leaves so far, it was only wrapped and not heated. Back left Brazoria completely defoliated pushed out 2 leaves and should have that 3rd completely out before winter. Louisiana front right minimal damage, chugging along. Front left is a small/ dwarf minor, I’ve got 7 of those planted around the yard they all took basically no damage, a few are seeding going to start cultivating these as well. All these super hardy plants need to get spread around more in my opinion. Previous were south side and then west side of the house. Here’s the east side. All these sabals were completely defoliated. In this bed all the sabals recovered. Mexicana front right pushed 3 leaves. Behind it 2 minors pushed 3 leaves each. Front left double palmetto still small pushed some growth out. Behind that against the house a riverside planted this year.In both these spots 2 windmills died, replaced with 2 palmettos. ***All the windmills I lost were very young and the biggest was a 5 gallon. I definitely believe the bigger they are the hardier they become. I have more waggies and fortuneis in pots I’m growing out to at least 7 gallon before experimenting again***Facing south on that side of the house is this long planting of sabals, they’re all young I lost one palmetto and replaced it, all took similar 50% damage with just a bucket over them and recovered well. Those other plants are kale we’ve been munching on all summer. Really excited for this, second biggest needle palm. Took less damage than the big oneThey both have been flowering for 5 or 6 years, this one finally set seed. I’ll take some more pics and post them of some more palms and different plants, show what survived and what didn’t. Super helpful seeing what can actually survive below zero temps. I know when I started really getting into putting plants in the ground at this house I was super hesitant at first, not feeling super confident planting palms. Now I don’t mind losing 5 plants, opens up spots to try new things, and I know I have some rock solid plants I won’t lose. At first having 5-10 plants total, the thought of losing 5 was devastating. 

[BigBilly]

29 minutes ago, teddytn said:

Really good growing season following the bad winter. A lot of consistent rainfall, almost would have wanted more heat for the sabals, didn’t have nearly as many 90f and above days as we did last summer. 
 

I still highly recommend trunking yuccas for everyone that is 7a and colder that won’t need protection. Three rostratas on the right, in that little spot on the left under the down spout I had a small windmill palm, replaced it with a yucca treculeana. This area always builds up over the summer with potted plants 😅In that raised bed these 2 palmettos were completely defoliated this one has grown back 4 larger normal looking leavesThis one grew 5 but appears that it’s still battling to throw a normal leaf 🤔Tamaulipas completely defoliated put out 3 so far, still young. Etonia about 50% damaged came back strong, still youngBiggest needle palm, you can see the tip damage it has on some leaves. I’ve been waiting for a leaf to touch the deck, it’s over 9’ tall and 10’ wide in some places nowBig Louisiana really negligible damage, need to get more seeds from this guy started. Birmingham completely defoliated pushed 3 huge leaves out so far, glad it didn’t dieView going up the driveway, Birmingham on the right in that bed, Mccurtain next to it, took so minimal damage basically zero. I’m going to plant more of those in the future and most definitely start growing every seed it produces. Varigated yucca gloriosa ended up losing its main trunk, rotted near the base. You can see two offsets in there. Next bed up the driveway. Palmetto back right completely defoliated, pushed out 3 good leaves. Middle back waggie completely defoliated, pushed a green spear and then spear pulled, ended up pushing out 6 leaves so far, it was only wrapped and not heated. Back left Brazoria completely defoliated pushed out 2 leaves and should have that 3rd completely out before winter. Louisiana front right minimal damage, chugging along. Front left is a small/ dwarf minor, I’ve got 7 of those planted around the yard they all took basically no damage, a few are seeding going to start cultivating these as well. All these super hardy plants need to get spread around more in my opinion. Previous were south side and then west side of the house. Here’s the east side. All these sabals were completely defoliated. In this bed all the sabals recovered. Mexicana front right pushed 3 leaves. Behind it 2 minors pushed 3 leaves each. Front left double palmetto still small pushed some growth out. Behind that against the house a riverside planted this year.In both these spots 2 windmills died, replaced with 2 palmettos. ***All the windmills I lost were very young and the biggest was a 5 gallon. I definitely believe the bigger they are the hardier they become. I have more waggies and fortuneis in pots I’m growing out to at least 7 gallon before experimenting again***Facing south on that side of the house is this long planting of sabals, they’re all young I lost one palmetto and replaced it, all took similar 50% damage with just a bucket over them and recovered well. Those other plants are kale we’ve been munching on all summer. Really excited for this, second biggest needle palm. Took less damage than the big oneThey both have been flowering for 5 or 6 years, this one finally set seed. I’ll take some more pics and post them of some more palms and different plants, show what survived and what didn’t. Super helpful seeing what can actually survive below zero temps. I know when I started really getting into putting plants in the ground at this house I was super hesitant at first, not feeling super confident planting palms. Now I don’t mind losing 5 plants, opens up spots to try new things, and I know I have some rock solid plants I won’t lose. At first having 5-10 plants total, the thought of losing 5 was devastating. 

Your plants look amazing !!! , What did you do for drainage around the Trunking Yuccas? 

[jwitt]

Not too often is there a post of consecutive below zero temperatures for day(s) and "tip" damage on palms!

Wow!

[teddytn]

2 hours ago, BigBilly said:

Your plants look amazing !!! , What did you do for drainage around the Trunking Yuccas? 

Filamentosa and recurvafolia are native here grow just fine in red clay. I planted a small rostrata in clay when I planted those 3 in that bed, it survived for years super stunted and crappy looking. I dug it out and replanted it, it’s better now, but still hasn’t come close to looking like those. Sorry for the rambling, my point is in that raised bed it’s 45% coarse sand, 45% gravel, 10% bagged topsoil 36” deep. With that initial success with those rostratas for all the other yuccas I’ve planted the goal is high and dry. At the very least mounded in a rock circle filled with a mix of gravel and sand will work. I must have 20 different yuccas at least at this point and haven’t lost any of them planted like this. 

[BigBilly]

1 hour ago, teddytn said:

Filamentosa and recurvafolia are native here grow just fine in red clay. I planted a small rostrata in clay when I planted those 3 in that bed, it survived for years super stunted and crappy looking. I dug it out and replanted it, it’s better now, but still hasn’t come close to looking like those. Sorry for the rambling, my point is in that raised bed it’s 45% coarse sand, 45% gravel, 10% bagged topsoil 36” deep. With that initial success with those rostratas for all the other yuccas I’ve planted the goal is high and dry. At the very least mounded in a rock circle filled with a mix of gravel and sand will work. I must have 20 different yuccas at least at this point and haven’t lost any of them planted like this. 

 how deep did you go and have you thought about trying a Brahea in those same conditions? 

[Jubaea_James760]

Everything looks to of recovered really well! Looking good man 👍

Sabal mexicana & etonia surprised me! Gonna have to give us a tour of your other Sabal's you have 😁

Those rostratas look amazing! Would love to see your other desert plants you have as well.