United Kingdom vs Holland vs Central Texas Mega Thread

[UK_Palms]

18 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

I knew you would come in like a thunderstorm.  While every Texan incl. Myself pretty much giggles about your constant claims we just let you believe what you're saying .  We all know the UK will be tropical filled with 50 to 100 ft Washies like we see in SoTeX in 20 years and there's no such thing as palmaggedon because that can happen anywhere else in the world but not in South UK we've heard that from you more than enough . I'm not even wanna challenge you because your few palms hiding in a city  that creates an artificial climate  is absolutely no competition to Texas at all but everybody has dreams .  I've been to the UK I guess you haven't been to Texas yet is that right ? 

 

Oh grow up. At least offer something of value to the conversation instead of insinuating that I am a liar, or deluded, or whatever. Your whole comment is full of convoluted nonsense and crap talking. I post enough photos and street view shots to support what I am saying. It is a FACT that we only really started planting Washingtonia in the 2000's, with the exception of a few planted in the mid-late 90's, such as that big one in London that I posted in this thread. That is why we don't really have any skydusters here, yet. If you want to argue with that, you are the deluded one. How the hell are the bigger ones even going to get wiped out now when the all-time record low at places like Ventnor, Falmouth and Eastbourne is something like -6C / 20F...!? Given that growth is at least 2 foot per year, they will inevitably become skydusters in time. Do you really think they will just suddenly drop dead now...!?

Let's cut the crap... Corpus Christi or anywhere in southern Texas is obviously going to win out big time against southern England. We are talking about 27-25N vs 50-51N. It becomes so far removed from the conversation and realms of comparison that it is just laughable. Why not throw some photos of Hawaii in there too, or even do a Honolulu vs London photo battle, yeah? Like come on. At least keep it reasonable. I thought the original topic was central Texas (San Antonio, Austin, College Station, Waco etc) vs UK (southern England). The fact I am even trying to go toe to toe with somewhere 20+ degrees latitude further south deserves some respect, given our extreme northern latitude here. You talk about me being a fool or deluded, but the more I see you post, the more I realise you are away with the fairies yourself. I'm all for free speech however, so keep posting like a plum, by all means. At least people like @Xenon actually provide informative and rational posts in a debate, minus the nonsense as well.

There are lots of palms lurking in back yards that I cannot properly check out over here, including a monstrous 50 footer Robusta in Mayfair, London. Pretty much everything is planted small as well. Like more than 99% of the palms being planted here are put in the ground tiny. There is only so much growth we can get over the past 15-20 years or so that they have been getting planted over here. While these ones are hardly of skyduster proportions, yet, it shows what is lurking out there. These ones aren't going to hang about. They are going to double in size over the next decade or so. Here are a few random UK ones anyway...

[Foxpalms]

If you couldn't tell it was an obvious joke. Also the difference between those photos and your latitude is only 1N, less of a difference between the canaries and Miami or Hawaii. I can't speak for others but I haven't tried to prove anything, I just think there's no point of you and Axel trying to argue against what will grow here. I would understand if someone was making stupid claims but no such thing has been said. Personally I don't try to make the climate sound better than it is, just what should be tried and zone pushed and if someone is telling me what I can and can't grow, I will happily debate them on why I disagree.  Hopefully it can be left at agree to disagree on what can grow instead of constantly arguing about it.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Foxpalms

[Arecaceus]

20 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

I lived 4 decades in a city called Paderborn which is 2 hrs away from Duesseldorf.  Before I moved here to TX in 2021 we had a few winters with temperatures of 10F and lower within a decade and Duesseldorf is only a few degrees warmer I doubt Germany has any potential for succeful palm growth it's too cold for too long.  This is all theory you come up with nobody can predict the climate of the next 30 years not even you.  

I know Paderborn. 😂 In Düsseldorf and the surrounding areas palm trees have been grown since the 1960s!!! Trachycarpus of course but they are palms. Trachies are everywhere around here and those plus Chamaerops humilis have been proven to be hardy here even during the coldest of winters. Other palms also have been planted around here before the last extreme events and have survived. I also posted about some other species grown here in the area:
 

Of course we can't grow everything here but quiet a few hardy palms. I have Washingtonias that have survived the arctic spell of 2021. They also seem to have survived this years very inconsistant bad winter. They don't look great after an extreme event of course but most winters they are fine.

I don't know if you feel provoked by the UK palm growers and are including me but I was only trying to make a point about the difference between the two types of cold blasts. It's not theory I come up with. I didn't make any predictions about the next 30 years but the tendency shows rather a warmer climate than a colder one. But that's not what I was going for. I don't understand why this topic is so sensitive. 🤷‍♂️

 

[Arecaceus]

17 minutes ago, EJ NJ said:

Sorry to interupt but this is kind of turning into an argument!

I think we're way past that... 😬

[Foxpalms]

To sum it up, for two people in particular, I'm happy to debate you on things we disagree on, but it's pointless turning it into an argument. Also the things I have said are different to UK Palms, vise versa, so I would appreciate if you were clearer on what you disagree with and from who instead of lumping it all into you're narrative of "UK growers"! Since that's confusing me at the moment. Lastly I think there's no point of dragging @Hortulanusinto this out of nowhere.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Foxpalms

[NBTX11]

I have posted photos of 60-70 plus foot pure Washingtonia Robusta in downtown San Antonio. At least twice as tall as anything I’ve ever seen in London. At least. They’re not a lot of them but they are there. They look like Los Angeles palms. They’re right up against a building in downtown SA. Check the palmageddon photo thread if you forgot. Marcus recently posted 50-60 foot Robusta hybrids in downtown SA. There’s a lot of those. You guys from the UK need to come visit the Riverwalk of SA. The palms are absolutely huge. Much bigger than Austin in my opinion. 
 

Downtown SA is probably the first place you see true Robusta skydusters traveling south in Texas. Everything north of that is hybrids. The hybrids can get really tall from SA to Austin also. I’ve posted some in New Braunfels before. Absolutely huge. Way bigger than anything I’ve ever seen posted in London. Sorry. Not sorry. 
 

Not to mention both SA and Austin have 100 year old Filifera that are 50 plus feet tall.  There are thousands of those. I’m not trying to be cruel, but it’s really no contest. Particularly San Antonio. I posted CIDP in New Braunfels that are older and bigger any I’ve ever seen posted in London. 
 

My opinion based on all the photos I’ve ever seen. The best comparison to London in Texas is probably College Station. Maybe downtown Dallas. But as far as size of palms and what can be grown I’d say those two locations. Dallas is going to get colder but overall is warmer than London 350 days a year so the palms can take more cold due to the rapid warmups 

Edited March 28, 2023 by NBTX11

[Arecaceus]

15 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

I have posted photos of 60-70 plus foot pure Washingtonia Robusta in downtown San Antonio. At least twice as tall as anything I’ve ever seen in London. At least. They’re not a lot of them but they are there. They look like Los Angeles palms. They’re right up against a building in downtown SA. Check the palmageddon photo thread if you forgot. Marcus recently posted 50-60 foot Robusta hybrids in downtown SA. There’s a lot of those. You guys from the UK need to come visit the Riverwalk of SA. The palms are absolutely huge. Much bigger than Austin in my opinion. 
 

Downtown SA is probably the first place you see true Robusta skydusters traveling south in Texas. Everything north of that is hybrids. The hybrids can get really tall from SA to Austin also. I’ve posted some in New Braunfels before. Absolutely huge. Way bigger than anything I’ve ever seen posted in London. Sorry. Not sorry. 
 

Not to mention both SA and Austin have 100 year old Filifera that are 50 plus feet tall.  There are thousands of those. I’m not trying to be cruel, but it’s really no contest. Particularly San Antonio. I posted CIDP in New Braunfels that are older and bigger any I’ve ever seen posted in London. 

Yep it's hard to compete with. Especially because palms have been grown there for much longer.

[NBTX11]

1 minute ago, Hortulanus said:

Yep it's hard to compete with. Especially because palms have been grown there for much longer.

I’m just going on what I see now. Maybe in 25 years London will catch up. It’s certainly possible. 

[Arecaceus]

8 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

I’m just going on what I see now. Maybe in 25 years London will catch up. It’s certainly possible. 

Of course. You can't compare hypothetically 😂. But I think it might take more than 25 years. I hope not too many will get chopped down. In so densly populated areas in Europe plants rarely get as big as they get in similar areas in the US. I already saw many CIDPs in London getting cut down. For now Texas is far ahead.

[Foxpalms]

34 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

I’m just going on what I see now. Maybe in 25 years London will catch up. It’s certainly possible. 

This is one of the so called "theoretical possibilities" I have discussed before. It will be interesting to see what London 25 years from now looks like, as the Washingtonia will obviously be much bigger. It will also be interesting if there will be more varieties of palms planted. I do not  compare the climates however I did compare the freezes. Dallas definitely has warmer days after a freeze which means the palm can take more cold however the palms here do not experience anywhere near as cold temperatures as they do there. London Heathrow airport experienced 17f this winter which was the coldest night there since the 1980s whilst here it was only 28f in the coldest part of the garden around 30f 10ft from the house under no canopy the same night. Some parts of central London next to the Thames in the city of London also only dropped to 30f. Personally I think the Washingtonia here will be fine but I can't predict the future. I know Washingtonia and phoenix will be fine here in my opinion thats why I'm trying other palms such as archontophoenix ect.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Foxpalms

[MarcusH]

Palms been growing in Texas for hundreds of years,  successfully, actually along the entire Gulf States and Southwest .As I mentioned earlier Texas's native palm is the Sabal Mexicana.  Even with some artic blasts that come down here all the way to the South once in a while , maybe 2x, 3x or once in 10 years . Whatever happened on February 2021 is not going to happen again in our lifetime that storm that knocked out quite a few Robustas in Central, SoCen and SoEast  TX was very unique that's it, everything hardy surivived and recovered within months.  2 hrs south of San Antonio you will barely notice the impact of Feb 2021 . 90 percent of all Robustas survived most likely . How can I not be provoked by someone that's constantly claiming how great Washies and CIDPs do in a few areas of the UK and they look so much better than the ones in Texas.  That's childish I don't know what's up with him but he does this not only to me he does it to all others . Read between the lines.  There's no competition TX vs UK period !!! We Got million of palms how many does the UK have?  We can grow palms anywhere in a suitable zone without looking for UHI zones.  There is and was no real palmaggedon in TX because the vast majority of palms surivived only the ones that shouldn't be planted at first place got whipped out 9b , 10a palms in particular. ( even some of them surivived) I don't even bring  South Texas into the game.  You guys saw the pictures.  Now Mr UK comes in presents his sugar coated data oh yes it's the lack of availability that's why south England doesn't look like Los Angeles got this sorry I've forgot.  

[ShadyDan]

[Xenon]

57 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

My opinion based on all the photos I’ve ever seen. The best comparison to London in Texas is probably College Station. 

I don't think College Station is colder than Austin or north San Antonio. There were a handful of large pure pencil thin robusta pre-2021 and even a large queen palm. A few Livistona chinensis survived.  A Butia odorata survived as well as CIDP. There are more than a few Washy hybrids that survived (some of them with somewhat thin trunks too). There are a few pre-80s W. filifera as well. 

[Xenon]

1 hour ago, NBTX11 said:

Downtown SA is probably the first place you see true Robusta skydusters traveling south in Texas. Everything north of that is hybrids. The hybrids can get really tall from SA to Austin also. I’ve posted some in New Braunfels before. Absolutely huge. Way bigger than anything I’ve ever seen posted in London. Sorry. Not sorry. 

Houston is ever so slighlty further north 😛

(yay more photos)

 

 

[Foxpalms]

13 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Houston is ever so slighlty further north 😛

(yay more photos)

 

 

Where's the limit for archontophoenix in central Texas? Or what is the coldest area are they able to grow in without dieing from bad freezes? 

[UK_Palms]

1 hour ago, NBTX11 said:

I have posted photos of 60-70 plus foot pure Washingtonia Robusta in downtown San Antonio. At least twice as tall as anything I’ve ever seen in London. At least. They’re not a lot of them but they are there. They look like Los Angeles palms. They’re right up against a building in downtown SA. Check the palmageddon photo thread if you forgot. Marcus recently posted 50-60 foot Robusta hybrids in downtown SA. There’s a lot of those. You guys from the UK need to come visit the Riverwalk of SA. The palms are absolutely huge. Much bigger than Austin in my opinion. 
 

Downtown SA is probably the first place you see true Robusta skydusters traveling south in Texas. Everything north of that is hybrids. The hybrids can get really tall from SA to Austin also. I’ve posted some in New Braunfels before. Absolutely huge. 

 

I think we can agree that central Texas beats southern England for Washingtonia. I was of that impression from the beginning, although it is largely due to the fact that they haven't been planted here until more recently. Fast forward another 20 years and it would be a lot more comparable. San Antonio certainly smokes London in the Washie department. I'll say it. The biggest Washingtonia's in London actually aren't that big, at least not yet. There is a huge 50 foot Robusta in a back yard, but I can't provide a reliable photo right now.

 

They can grow a damn good skirt in London however, when left...

 

The CIDP competition however is a non-contest against central Texas, outside of Houston/Galveston. London probably has the 3rd biggest one on the UK mainland now. College station hasn't got anything on the London or south coast CIDP's... @NBTX11

 

These are only going to keep getting bigger and bigger now that they are actually being grown, and are thriving, over here nowadays.

Also, any Parajubaea Cocoides growing in central Texas? Or will they only start in RGV? Pretty sure they won't make it in Corpus Christi even. This one is in Falmouth, Cornwall with no urban heat island whatsoever to protect it. They will burn quite badly below -3C / 26F.

 

I know you guys won't have Juania Australis as that won't take extreme heat. This one is in Salcombe, Devon on the mainland. Good luck beating the beaches there too.

 

We certainly ain't hot/sunny Texas obviously, but we sure as hell hold our own up here at 50-51N of the equator...

Edited March 28, 2023 by UK_Palms

[Xenon]

4 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

Where's the limit for archontophoenix in central Texas? Or what is the coldest area are they able to grow in without dieing from bad freezes? 

No Archontophoenix anywhere near central Texas...that's a huge jump from Washingtonia. There are some (the tropical types) in far south Texas, but that's royal, foxtail, and heartbreak coconut land. Even in Florida, you generally need to be in the warmer parts of central Florida to grow Archontophoenix. 

Which begs the question, would a UK vs (inland) North Florida comparison be absurd? Inland south-central Texas and the corresponding inland latitude in FL are fairly similar with similar record lows and similar bulletproof plants. 

[Xenon]

7 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

 

Also, any Parajubaea Cocoides growing in central Texas? Or will they only start in RGV? Pretty sure they won't make it in Corpus Christi even. This one is in Falmouth, Cornwall with no urban heat island whatsoever to protect it. They will burn quite badly below -3C / 26F.

 

No, Texas summers destroy them and everything else from the high Andes or some tempeate oceanic island. It's akin to asking if there are royals and coconuts in the UK 🙂

[Foxpalms]

20 minutes ago, Xenon said:

No Archontophoenix anywhere near central Texas...that's a huge jump from Washingtonia. There are some (the tropical types) in far south Texas, but that's royal, foxtail, and heartbreak coconut land. Even in Florida, you generally need to be in the warmer parts of central Florida to grow Archontophoenix. 

Which begs the question, would a UK vs (inland) North Florida comparison be absurd? Inland south-central Texas and the corresponding inland latitude in FL are fairly similar with similar record lows and similar bulletproof plants. 

It wouldn't be out of the question for plant comparison, obviously not climate. The most fair comparison between somewhere in the USA and warmer parts of the UK would probably be Brookings Oregon. Climate wise we are more similar to the west coast of the USA, also fairly similar plants can grow in the same locations, archontophoenix, CIDP, Washingtonia, syagrus romanzoffianana, Rhopalostylis sapida ect.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Foxpalms

[Teegurr]

3 hours ago, EJ NJ said:

Sorry to interupt but this is kind of turning into an argument!

That's the idea.

[fr8train]

4 hours ago, Xenon said:

You need to drive a few more hours to RGV (the real south Texas), it's Corpus Christi on steroids....take all of the Washingtonia in Corpus Christi, Houston, etc and multiply by x100 and you get the Valley hahaha

 

I tried talking my wife into moving down there, but she likes Hill Country more :/

[ChicagoPalma]

Already like 60 posts on here! Finally a place where all this random arguing stays in one place!

[Arecaceus]

1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

Palms been growing in Texas for hundreds of years,  successfully, actually along the entire Gulf States and Southwest .As I mentioned earlier Texas's native palm is the Sabal Mexicana.  Even with some artic blasts that come down here all the way to the South once in a while , maybe 2x, 3x or once in 10 years . Whatever happened on February 2021 is not going to happen again in our lifetime that storm that knocked out quite a few Robustas in Central, SoCen and SoEast  TX was very unique that's it, everything hardy surivived and recovered within months.  2 hrs south of San Antonio you will barely notice the impact of Feb 2021 . 90 percent of all Robustas survived most likely . How can I not be provoked by someone that's constantly claiming how great Washies and CIDPs do in a few areas of the UK and they look so much better than the ones in Texas.  That's childish I don't know what's up with him but he does this not only to me he does it to all others . Read between the lines.  There's no competition TX vs UK period !!! We Got million of palms how many does the UK have?  We can grow palms anywhere in a suitable zone without looking for UHI zones.  There is and was no real palmaggedon in TX because the vast majority of palms surivived only the ones that shouldn't be planted at first place got whipped out 9b , 10a palms in particular. ( even some of them surivived) I don't even bring  South Texas into the game.  You guys saw the pictures.  Now Mr UK comes in presents his sugar coated data oh yes it's the lack of availability that's why south England doesn't look like Los Angeles got this sorry I've forgot.  

Yet I still don't understand why you dragged me into this. 😅 You said "I doubt Germany has any potential for succeful palm growth it's too cold for too long." even though I only made a comment about the difference between a cold blast in the Southern/Eastern US and the Northwest. I didn't even say anything about palms in Germany and yet you can surely have your doubts but I opposed you in a quoted post, because there are palms growing for decades in the mildest areas here and now you don't even respond. I'm also confused as you told me "... This is all theory you come up with nobody can predict the climate of the next 30 years not even you. ..." even though I didn't make up any theories and also didn't make ANY predictions about the next 30 years. And now you're saying: "... Whatever happened on February 2021 is not going to happen again in our lifetime that storm that knocked out quite a few Robustas in Central, SoCen and SoEast  TX was very unique that's it, ...". This is very contradicting to me. Also I find it a bit rude that out of nowhere you dismiss an entire zone pushing coummnity (mild areas of Germany) without any photo, talk, thread etc., about it. What is the issue here?

[Xenon]

1 minute ago, Foxpalms said:

It wouldn't be out of the question for plant comparison, obviously not climate. The most fair comparison between somewhere in the USA and warmer parts of the UK would probably be Brookings Oregon. Climate wise we are more similar to the west coast of the USA, also fairly similar plants can grow in the same locations, archontophoenix, CIDP, Washingtonia, syagrus romanzoffianana, Rhopalostylis sapida ect.

Exactly why this Texas comparison thing is ridiculous...but here we are 🤣😂

God forbid someone post a weather chart, but don't forget much of central/south TX is a sweltering hot and humid sauna for much of the year. Freezes come and go, the tropical air flow that dominates for months is assured. 

 

[fr8train]

This is such a weird rivalry lol

I was just in London and I was very impressed by the palms I saw, though there weren't that many unfortunately. It's still insane they can even grow there. When you think of the American South, you often think of palms. Not so much with England, and yet there they were, beautiful looking CIDPs. 

[ChicagoPalma]

Might go to London this year so checking out cidps in London will be interesting. Still wondering how the UK has such a warm climate in a northern latitude. If anybody has answers, send me graphs and all that data. I think this question has Ben solved but I have not been paying attention enough to the UK climate and all that.

[Foxpalms]

29 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Exactly why this Texas comparison thing is ridiculous...but here we are 🤣😂

God forbid someone post a weather chart, but don't forget much of central/south TX is a sweltering hot and humid sauna for much of the year. Freezes come and go, the tropical air flow that dominates for months is assured. 

 

Because of the location of the UK the weather can be weird. In the summer in London for example, one day it can feel like a subtropical climate where it's warm and humid, one day it can feel like a cold temperate climate and it's cool, then a Mediterranean climate the next day warm to hot and dry, then a desert climate the next day very hot and dry! It all depends on which direction the winds are coming from. On July the 19th last summer it was over 104 with very low humidity the next day it was 82 with a dew point of 65f.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Foxpalms

[Foxpalms]

25 minutes ago, ChicagoPalma said:

Might go to London this year so checking out cidps in London will be interesting. Still wondering how the UK has such a warm climate in a northern latitude. If anybody has answers, send me graphs and all that data. I think this question has Ben solved but I have not been paying attention enough to the UK climate and all that.

It's an island, the warm waters from the Carribbean help brought over by the gulfstream then the north Atlantic drift, we have the Mediterranean region 500 miles below us and below that the Sahara desert which is 900 miles south of here. The winds usually come from the west or south west during the winter bringing cool humid wet conditions. The winters are also pretty cloudy here. If you do go, it might also be worth going to Cornwall and checking out some of the botanical gardens there in zone 10a. Also a trip to the Scilly isles zone 10b. If you do end up going i can give you kentia, Norfolk Island pine locations ect.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Foxpalms

[UK_Palms]

1 hour ago, Xenon said:

No Archontophoenix anywhere near central Texas...that's a huge jump from Washingtonia. There are some (the tropical types) in far south Texas, but that's royal, foxtail, and heartbreak coconut land. Even in Florida, you generally need to be in the warmer parts of central Florida to grow Archontophoenix. 

Which begs the question, would a UK vs (inland) North Florida comparison be absurd? Inland south-central Texas and the corresponding inland latitude in FL are fairly similar with similar record lows and similar bulletproof plants. 

 

Pulling out the absurd is what I do best. We are growing palm and exotics in the UK of all places. How far south do you have to go in Florida before you start seeing (coning) Norfolk Island Pines on par with the Isles of Scilly at 50N...? So totally green and healthy with no damage. Any 100 footers floating around near Houston or Corpus Christi? Legit question.

 

You could argue the Robusta at Tresco doesn't look that great due to the wind, salt spray, lack of proper heat etc, but it is still becoming a skyduster there.

 

[NBTX11]

1 hour ago, Foxpalms said:

Because of the location of the UK the weather can be weird. In the summer in London for example, one day it can feel like a subtropical climate where it's warm and humid, one day it can feel like a cold temperate climate and it's cool, then a Mediterranean climate the next day warm to hot and dry, then a desert climate the next day very hot and dry! It all depends on which direction the winds are coming from. On July the 19th last summer it was over 104 with very low humidity the next day it was 82 with a dew point of 65f.

It can average 104 or 105 for an entire month in Texas. The average high in summer is just shy of 100. 100s are a daily occurrence. Now 110 is when we start getting real heat. 

[Foxpalms]

5 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

It can average 104 or 105 for an entire month in Texas. The average high in summer is just shy of 100. 100s are a daily occurrence. Now 110 is when we start getting real heat. 

Which part of Texas averages 104f? 

[Xenon]

7 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

 

Pulling out the absurd is what I do best. We are growing palm and exotics in the UK of all places. How far south do you have to go in Florida before you start seeing (coning) Norfolk Island Pines on par with the Isles of Scilly at 50N...? So totally green and healthy with no damage. Any 100 footers floating around near Houston or Corpus Christi? Legit question.

You could argue the Robusta at Tresco doesn't look that great due to the wind, salt spray, lack of proper heat etc, but it is still becoming a skyduster there.

 

Nice pics and all, but why the incessant need to make all of these comparisons? Obviously the UK is very different from Texas and Florida. It's not a competition, so I'm not sure what the end goal is. To ankowledge the wonderful exotics in the UK? Yes, it's very impressive.

To answer your question on the southern US, you will see large Cook pines (I've never seen Norfolk Pine here) right about when you start seeing royal palms. Far southern TX and somewhere around Orlando/Daytona. I saw a few large ones in St. Augustine. Galveston and Corpus Christi formerly had large Cook pines before the 2021 freeze. 

Galveston's former glory, 'cause we could always use more pics 🙂

[Foxpalms]

1 minute ago, Xenon said:

Nice pics and all, but why the incessant need to make all of these comparisons? Obviously the UK is very different from Texas and Florida. It's not a competition, so I'm not sure what the end goal is. To ankowledge the wonderful exotics in the UK? Yes, it's very impressive.

To answer your question on the southern US, you will see large Cook pines (I've never seen Norfolk Pine here) right about when you start seeing royal palms. Far southern TX and somewhere around Orlando/Daytona. I saw a few large ones in St. Augustine. Galveston and Corpus Christi formerly had large Cook pines before the 2021 freeze. 

Galveston's former glory, 'cause we could always use more pics 🙂

Cook pines are extremely hard to get here unlike Norfolk Island pines. I got lucky and managed to get a tiny one.  I don't think I have ever seen one planted out here.

[Foxpalms]

This doesn't have anything to do with climate comparison, but @ChicagoPalmathese are some things you can find in the gardens in Cornwall. It's a distance from London but it's worth checking out these gardens. Here are some nice plants growing in them.

[MarcusH]

3 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

It can average 104 or 105 for an entire month in Texas. The average high in summer is just shy of 100. 100s are a daily occurrence. Now 110 is when we start getting real 

The cool season ( ranging from highs 40 to 80 ) last about 2.8 months.  The rest of the year is usually in the 80s for a few months then 90s and 100s . The heatwave you experience in the UK is constantly present in TX you can literally boil eggs on your driveway.  I know the climate in the northern parts of Europe I lived there the heatwave in that part are a joke not even comparable.  Imagine that hot air , humidity where the index goes in to the 110s combined with our sun that literally gives you a sunburn in a half hour it's aggressive.  You could barely feel the sun it was just warm not biding your skin in Germany and London.  San Antonio is one of America's hottest places behind Phoenix.  London doesn't hold a candle compared to TX . You guys talking about heat is like a blind person talks about  colors. 

[Foxpalms]

34 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

The cool season ( ranging from highs 40 to 80 ) last about 2.8 months.  The rest of the year is usually in the 80s for a few months then 90s and 100s . The heatwave you experience in the UK is constantly present in TX you can literally boil eggs on your driveway.  I know the climate in the northern parts of Europe I lived there the heatwave in that part are a joke not even comparable.  Imagine that hot air , humidity where the index goes in to the 110s combined with our sun that literally gives you a sunburn in a half hour it's aggressive.  You could barely feel the sun it was just warm not biding your skin in Germany and London.  San Antonio is one of America's hottest places behind Phoenix.  London doesn't hold a candle compared to TX . You guys talking about heat is like a blind person talks about  colors. 

Yes Texas can definitely get hot and humid. When it gets hot here the humidity is usually low. The worst place for heat and humidity is Jazan Saudi Arabia, the average summer heat index there is ridiculous at 136f during the day and 100 during the night. Then combine that with the strength of the sun at 16N. I'm not sure about the sunburn part though, it all depends on the person, since I can sit in UV 11+ without sunscreen for longer than half an hour and not get sunburnt but I get what you mean.

[NBTX11]

55 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

Which part of Texas averages 104f? 

I said it can average 104 for an entire month, and it has on many occasions, actually 105 or 106 in the hottest summers, however that would be above average.  In a typical summer the average summer high is around 98F, which means about half of summer days are over 100.  95 degrees is a cool summer day, below average. 

The Big Bend area of Texas around Presidio averages around 103 and Laredo TX, a medium sized city in South Texas averages around 101 in summer.  Outside of the desert areas of the southwest USA (Arizona, Nevada), Texas is the hottest place in the US.

Edited March 29, 2023 by NBTX11

[NBTX11]

3 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

 

 

 

 

Where is this palm.  I am actually impressed by it.  The trunk looks fairly old.  All of our old palms have obviously old trunks with scars and pieces of the trunk missing.

[Foxpalms]

2 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

Where is this palm.  I am actually impressed by it.  The trunk looks fairly old.  All of our old palms have obviously old trunks with scars and pieces of the trunk missing.

I could be wrong but I think Torquay.

[NBTX11]

Yeah I agree with the idea that your closest comparison to London in the US is coastal Oregon or Seattle, Washington.  Much closer to your oceanic climate and Seattle actually has a lot of palms.  Victoria and Vancouver Canada have a lot of palm trees also.