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Patricks Hybrid Characteristics controversy


Love them palms

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A friend of mine went down to California not to long ago to get palms and stopped by Patricks to get trees. he and Patrick got into a conversation about hybrid characters and how no 2 trees have to look the same. some people have been giving Patrick a bad rap stating that some of his trees don't have certain palm variants in them cause they don't show in that tree -like example Jabutia x syagrus but doesn't show the queen so there for Patrick is wrong . I have a video of the reason that could be. 

go to about 9:48 of the video about that issue. and if you want discussion about it is open for debate

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Patrix is exactly right, it’s a lottery, especially when you get into triple crosses. To muddy the waters even more for example two different palms of the same species can look very different. I have several large mature butia in my neighborhood. Some look quite similar but others almost look to be a different species of butia but I’m sure we’re sold under the same name. I can go to a local nursery that has a dozen butia and some look very different from each other while others are very similar. There are thousands of genetic genes that give a palm a certain look, when you make crosses some are expressed while others aren’t. Mules are very variable in look and hardiness. Anyone with several planted can attest to this, especially in zone pushing climates. 
 

also as Patrix noted , cooler and warmer climates will effect how a palm responds to its growing conditions. 
 

btw thank you for posting that video, fantastic 👍

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7 minutes ago, RJ said:

Patrix is exactly right, it’s a lottery, especially when you get into triple crosses. To muddy the waters even more for example two different palms of the same species can look very different. I have several large mature butia in my neighborhood. Some look quite similar but others almost look to be a different species of butia but I’m sure we’re sold under the same name. I can go to a local nursery that has a dozen butia and some look very different from each other while others are very similar. There are thousands of genetic genes that give a palm a certain look, when you make crosses some are expressed while others aren’t. Mules are very variable in look and hardiness. Anyone with several planted can attest to this, especially in zone pushing climates. 
 

also as Patrix noted , cooler and warmer climates will effect how a palm responds to its growing conditions. 
 

btw thank you for posting that video, fantastic 👍

this video and post was posted for the people that have negative opinions towards Patricks hybrids. I,ve seen it plenty and so has my mentor Dave Alvarez. there have been plenty of folks that claim that in hybrids if one characteristic of a palm is not showing then the one who is selling or bought the palm is made to look like an idiot. Dave Alvarez Purposely asked that question because of the ones who claim to be smarter than him or Patrick or others that they wrong. even those who are new to the hobby or boards. this video has good educational Vale to it in my opinion.

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9 minutes ago, Love them palms said:

this video and post was posted for the people that have negative opinions towards Patricks hybrids. I,ve seen it plenty and so has my mentor Dave Alvarez. there have been plenty of folks that claim that in hybrids if one characteristic of a palm is not showing then the one who is selling or bought the palm is made to look like an idiot. Dave Alvarez Purposely asked that question because of the ones who claim to be smarter than him or Patrick or others that they wrong. even those who are new to the hobby or boards. this video has good educational Vale to it in my opinion.

I’m not aware of the bickering so I can’t really comment on it I have many of his hybrids, and when one he sold me wasn’t a successful cross he replaced it free of charge. In my book that’s a pretty stand up guy. As far as I’m aware he has successfully crossed more different types of hybrids  then anyone I’m aware of. In my book he’s the top guy in this field bar none. 

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21 minutes ago, RJ said:

I’m not aware of the bickering so I can’t really comment on it I have many of his hybrids, and when one he sold me wasn’t a successful cross he replaced it free of charge. In my book that’s a pretty stand up guy. As far as I’m aware he has successfully crossed more different types of hybrids  then anyone I’m aware of. In my book he’s the top guy in this field bar none. 

I had issues with certain people when I received  a couple of Jubaea x Queens from a seller in Cali and a Butia x Jubaea as well from Patrick. knowledge helped me win those battles. it pays off to know people who know people. even got to meet Vlad in Browns point near Tacoma, Jeff Spalding in Ballard WA. they had some nice properties. here they are as eye candy. 

Ran into Bryan Jones as well at Vlads For those who do not know him, he is the mastermind behind the beautiful gardens at Pointe defiance Park zoo.

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30 minutes ago, Love them palms said:

I had issues with certain people when I received  a couple of Jubaea x Queens from a seller in Cali and a Butia x Jubaea as well from Patrick. knowledge helped me win those battles. it pays off to know people who know people. even got to meet Vlad in Browns point near Tacoma, Jeff Spalding in Ballard WA. they had some nice properties. here they are as eye candy. 

Ran into Bryan Jones as well at Vlads For those who do not know him, he is the mastermind behind the beautiful gardens at Pointe defiance Park zoo.

 

 

 

I’ve learned that when purchasing hybrids it’s like Russian roulette. I purchased a triple cross from him based on another growers palm. The one I received looked much different, that’s when patrix explained to me that especially with triple crosses they’re so many variables in what the palm will end up looking like. It made sense to me and in was very happy with the palm, unfortunately while still in a pot it spear pulled over the summer. It never recovered unfortunately. 
 

I wasn’t  aware anyone else was creating jxs. Interesting. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, RJ said:

 

I wasn’t  aware anyone else was creating jxs. Interesting. 
 

 

it was by luck ,Dave Alvarez was looking for Jubaea to get for people last spring in California when he came across a seller who had them but had some he said where mixed with something else he could not identify. Dave  went down to get the Jubaea but also checked the hybrids and said it was Queen palm and took them. I have 4 at my place from that deal and got a big Jubaea in a 27 inch box this year which is the last pic

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Edited by Love them palms
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This is slightly off topic, but connecting the dots is fascinating. Patrix talks about the fertile mule at HBH in CA , he has offspring of as well. That mule palm was from material donated from Dr. Wilcox , who Patrix mentioned a few times. 

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