Best cycads for San Antonio/Hill Country?

[fr8train]

I live just outside of San Antonio, but it gets a bit colder here than in the city itself. I believe it's zone 8b, maybe even 8a, whereas San Antonio I think is 9a for the most part, with many microclimates. 

I see the standard cycas revoluta everywhere, and they defoliate but then come back. I was wondering what other trunking cycads might make it here in this climate? I'm not nearly as familiar with cycads as I am with palms, and even with palms I'm learning a lot. What do you all think?

[Fusca]

I'm not a cycad enthusiast myself but there are others besides the common Cycas revoluta that should do well.  If I'm remembering correctly Cycas panzhihuaensis and Cycas taitungensis are equally or more cold hardy than revoluta.  Joseph from TexasColdHardyPalms used to sell several different species and posted about their hardiness in the "Tropical Plants Other Than Palms" forum.  More recently @Meangreen94z has posted photos of different cycads from Zilker Gardens in Austin.  I personally grew Zamia furfuracea in San Antonio and I believe Zamia floridana is hardier.  Dioon edule should also do well and is (or at least used to be) sold by Palm Buddha in SA.

[amh]

Cycas panzhihuaensis and Cycas taitungensis are your trunking alternatives to Cycas revoluta. Cycas guizhouensis is another possibility, but I don't know if it will handle zone 8A. A non-trunking Dioon edule, Dioon angustifolium, and Zamia floridana should be hardy once established. There are some hardy ceratozamia species, but they can be easily grown in containers. 

How much money are you looking to spend?

[Meangreen94z]

1 hour ago, fr8train said:

I live just outside of San Antonio, but it gets a bit colder here than in the city itself. I believe it's zone 8b, maybe even 8a, whereas San Antonio I think is 9a for the most part, with many microclimates. 

I see the standard cycas revoluta everywhere, and they defoliate but then come back. I was wondering what other trunking cycads might make it here in this climate? I'm not nearly as familiar with cycads as I am with palms, and even with palms I'm learning a lot. What do you all think?

Cycas panzihihuaensis, Cycas taitungensis, Dioon edule(and angustfolium), Macrozamia moorei, Macrozamia communis, and a few other Macrozamia. Several Zamia. I’ve read of Encephalartos altensteinii, Encephalartos paucidentatus, and a few others surviving in North Carolina. Lepidozamia perryoffskyana has been hardy to atleast mid teens. Not sure once it trunks though. 

[fr8train]

14 hours ago, Fusca said:

I'm not a cycad enthusiast myself but there are others besides the common Cycas revoluta that should do well.  If I'm remembering correctly Cycas panzhihuaensis and Cycas taitungensis are equally or more cold hardy than revoluta.  Joseph from TexasColdHardyPalms used to sell several different species and posted about their hardiness in the "Tropical Plants Other Than Palms" forum.  More recently @Meangreen94z has posted photos of different cycads from Zilker Gardens in Austin.  I personally grew Zamia furfuracea in San Antonio and I believe Zamia floridana is hardier.  Dioon edule should also do well and is (or at least used to be) sold by Palm Buddha in SA.

I see, thank you for the info. I have to check out Zilker Gardens when I get a chance. 

13 hours ago, amh said:

Cycas panzhihuaensis and Cycas taitungensis are your trunking alternatives to Cycas revoluta. Cycas guizhouensis is another possibility, but I don't know if it will handle zone 8A. A non-trunking Dioon edule, Dioon angustifolium, and Zamia floridana should be hardy once established. There are some hardy ceratozamia species, but they can be easily grown in containers. 

How much money are you looking to spend?

Not much honestly, I'm trying to think long term now that I'm down here. My wife and I are sort of starting our lives together, getting a house and so on. I'm trying to plan years into the future without dropping a ton of money. At this point I'm only looking at seeds and seedlings. I'm hoping a decade from now I'll have some more unusual palms and cycads planted that are mostly fully hardy here. 

As of now I have a lot of Sabal uresana, and I just picked up some of the silver form from Peckerwood near Houston. I also picked up some small sp. Tamaulipas seedlings, and a few other forms. I'm trying to get some other unusual Sabals, like causiarum. Also, some Brahea, Trachycarpus, like princeps and wagnerianus and some hybrids. I'm interested in growing anything and everything that can survive something like the 2021 freeze that was down here with no protection. 

13 hours ago, Meangreen94z said:

Cycas panzihihuaensis, Cycas taitungensis, Dioon edule(and angustfolium), Macrozamia moorei, Macrozamia communis, and a few other Macrozamia. Several Zamia. I’ve read of Encephalartos altensteinii, Encephalartos paucidentatus, and a few others surviving in North Carolina. Lepidozamia perryoffskyana has been hardy to atleast mid teens. Not sure once it trunks though. 

Very interesting, thank you. I'll start looking into these.

Thanks for all the advice. I like this sort of format much more than googling, as many of you have first hand knowledge of these things. Like who would ever guess that a palm like Sabal causiarum from Puerto Rico would be so cold hardy? I'm thankful I can tap into other people's personal trial and error. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by fr8train

[amh]

4 hours ago, fr8train said:

Not much honestly, I'm trying to think long term now that I'm down here. My wife and I are sort of starting our lives together, getting a house and so on. I'm trying to plan years into the future without dropping a ton of money. At this point I'm only looking at seeds and seedlings. I'm hoping a decade from now I'll have some more unusual palms and cycads planted that are mostly fully hardy here. 

As of now I have a lot of Sabal uresana, and I just picked up some of the silver form from Peckerwood near Houston. I also picked up some small sp. Tamaulipas seedlings, and a few other forms. I'm trying to get some other unusual Sabals, like causiarum. Also, some Brahea, Trachycarpus, like princeps and wagnerianus and some hybrids. I'm interested in growing anything and everything that can survive something like the 2021 freeze that was down here with no protection. 

This is a good mindset for growing cycads and the hardy palms, the first 3 years will take forever, but after about 5, everything will increase in growth rate. 

Try to find some neighbors that have lived in your area for more than 10 years to get an idea of what your true hardiness zone and climate are like. Boerne is potentially a warmer climate, so talk to people in Fair Oaks and possibly the Leon Springs area.

[MarcusH]

30 minutes ago, amh said:

This is a good mindset for growing cycads and the hardy palms, the first 3 years will take forever, but after about 5, everything will increase in growth rate. 

Try to find some neighbors that have lived in your area for more than 10 years to get an idea of what your true hardiness zone and climate are like. Boerne is potentially a warmer climate, so talk to people in Fair Oaks and possibly the Leon Springs area.

I live on the northeast side of SA close to Loop 410 and I'm in a 8b/9a zone. We have one large Sago in front of the house it defoliates easily under 30 degrees but always comes back strong like nothing ever happened.  They grow like weeds on our property . You want some you can dig some out if you like. 

[Fusca]

Here's an example of the growth rate for Cycas revoluta.  I grew this one from seed collected in 2001.  It stayed small in a container for 15 years before I finally put it in the ground.  Here it is today shortly after being transplanted from San Antonio.   Existing fronds are from a single flush following the freeze of February 2021.

[amh]

59 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

I live on the northeast side of SA close to Loop 410 and I'm in a 8b/9a zone. We have one large Sago in front of the house it defoliates easily under 30 degrees but always comes back strong like nothing ever happened.  They grow like weeds on our property . You want some you can dig some out if you like. 

The humble sago is a very hardy cycad, and is a great landscape plant. The funny thing is that they acclimate very well to their environment,it takes temperatures in the teens to defoliate a plant in my area.

Do you have a lot of pups?

[amh]

30 minutes ago, Fusca said:

Here's an example of the growth rate for Cycas revoluta.  I grew this one from seed collected in 2001.  It stayed small in a container for 15 years before I finally put it in the ground.  Here it is today shortly after being transplanted from San Antonio.   Existing fronds are from a single flush following the freeze of February 2021.

Gorgeous specimen, they are worth the wait.

[MarcusH]

53 minutes ago, amh said:

The humble sago is a very hardy cycad, and is a great landscape plant. The funny thing is that they acclimate very well to their environment,it takes temperatures in the teens to defoliate a plant in my area.

Do you have a lot of pups?

At least 3 or 4 around the trunk I have to look later when I get home. I'll take a picture 

[MarcusH]

Still in recovery mode but new fronds should shoot out very soon.  

[Fusca]

22 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Still in recovery mode but new fronds should shoot out very soon.  

Pups can be removed to start new plants but I would wait until the caudex is at least baseball sized to have a good chance of success.  The bigger the better.

[Merlyn]

Arguably Revoluta and Taitungensis are the same species, at least according to some cycad researchers.  They grow about the same but Taiungensis are roighly twice the frond diameter.  Other hardy options are Guizhou and Panz, and hybrids with them and Debaoensis or Multifrondis.  It would take a while to trunk, but Panz x Deb is a great big hybrid.

[amh]

6 hours ago, MarcusH said:

Still in recovery mode but new fronds should shoot out very soon.  

Those pups could use a little more time.

Do you know if the plant is male or female?

[amh]

6 hours ago, Merlyn said:

Arguably Revoluta and Taitungensis are the same species, at least according to some cycad researchers.  They grow about the same but Taiungensis are roighly twice the frond diameter.  Other hardy options are Guizhou and Panz, and hybrids with them and Debaoensis or Multifrondis.  It would take a while to trunk, but Panz x Deb is a great big hybrid.

I've manage to get taitungensis X debaoensis, revoluta X debaoensis, panzhihuaensis X debaoensis, and revoluta X multifrondis hybrids, but I am hoping someone will make a guizhouensis X debaoensis hybrid.

I've noticed that the various taitungensis hybrids that I have are very different than the corresponding revoluta hybrids.

[Merlyn]

@amhI have all of those hybrids too, and regular Guizhouensis from @Jubaea_James760.  I haven't seen anyone with a Guiz x Deb hybrid.  You should also try Rev x Diannanensis from @Scott W.   The 4 Rev x Diann in the ground simply shrugged and said "meh" at 24-25F with frost.  Diannanensis is supposed to be hardy to around 17F or so, hopefully the hybrid is even tougher.  I know my Encephalartos Gratus x Laurentianus is substantially hardier than either parent.

[amh]

5 hours ago, Merlyn said:

@amhI have all of those hybrids too, and regular Guizhouensis from @Jubaea_James760.  I haven't seen anyone with a Guiz x Deb hybrid.  You should also try Rev x Diannanensis from @Scott W.   The 4 Rev x Diann in the ground simply shrugged and said "meh" at 24-25F with frost.  Diannanensis is supposed to be hardy to around 17F or so, hopefully the hybrid is even tougher.  I know my Encephalartos Gratus x Laurentianus is substantially hardier than either parent.

I'll have to do some research on Cycas diannanensis, especially the hybrid, I'm on the warm side of zone 8A, but on normal years, I'll see the teens quite a bit. 

@Jubaea_James760 and @Scott W are both great growers.