What are these funky looking queens?

[Motlife]

I've noticed these palms by a motel in Nelson NZ. They look like queen's to me, except with much more bunched up fronds. I haven't seen them anywhere else, and queens are common here. 

There are two of them in the row next to more normal looking queens. I couldn't see another syagrus that looked similar to these. Anyone know if they are a variety of queen, or something else? Cheers! 

 

[awkonradi]

Thanks for posting these.  Those are rather freaky, but they do seem vigorous.

[Merlyn]

I'd guess either a mutant Queen or a consistent but mild boron deficiency...not enough to cause severe damage but enough to mess up the growth.  https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/ep264

[John hovancsek]

The one looks like ravenea rivalaris but the rest look like queen

[Las Palmas Norte]

What are these funky looking queens?

Sounds like lyrics from a 70's disco song. I wonder if these have always grown with this appearance or is it a recent development?

[JLM]

7 hours ago, John hovancsek said:

The one looks like ravenea rivalaris but the rest look like queen

Was kinda thinking the same thing. Frond bases look different than the actual Queens there, and the fronds look very different. The actual leaflets have vitually no space between them and they are flat i guess? Im not sure how to describe it but the leaflets on a queen are not as even as that is. However, the trunk looks like a queen. I am completely lost here lol

[Motlife]

Thanks for the thoughts all. Some of my thoughts about the ideas:

Boron deficiency: NZ soils generally are deficient in boron, however the one next to it seems normal, and there are hundreds of queens around and they all look more or less the same as the taller palm. 

Mutation: I wondered that, or some hybrid, but if it is it must come from the same parents as the one at the end of the row as that looks much the same as the one I took a close up of

Majesty: They're not so common here, and I only know of one nearby. The trunks don't have the wide tapering thing going on either. Is there one particular thing I could look for that would confirm it as being one or the other next time I'm over that way? Or something in particular I could take a photo of?

I went for a look on streetview and there's a shot from Dec 2009:

The second shot is the palm on the right of the bottom picture in the first post. They do look different than the regular queen then, but maybe not as weird as now. Here's the streetview link if anyone wants a look on that: https://www.google.com/maps/@-41.2704079,173.2809927,3a,15y,0.94h,87.91t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sgyBAEPYoGDW8SOMJJuc4OA!2e0!5s20091201T000000!7i13312!8i6656

Thanks for the advice everyone, it's a weird one! I quite like them though to be honest, I'm going to keep an eye out if they get seed on them

[Jim in Los Altos]

Looks like boron deficiency to me. It will affect one palm more than the other. You can have a row of same species palms and one or two may be showing signs of a mineral deficiency while the others aren’t. That’s definitely not a Ravenea rivularis though. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Jim in Los Altos

[Motlife]

Thanks for that. Is there anything that would confirm it, like a close up of the leaves or something? I do kinda like the look of them! They look pretty healthy, very dark green fronds. Definitely funky! 

[Little Tex]

2 hours ago, Motlife said:

Thanks for that. Is there anything that would confirm it, like a close up of the leaves or something? I do kinda like the look of them! They look pretty healthy, very dark green fronds. Definitely funky! 

I think really the only thing to truly confirm it is to get the soil tested.

[Kim]

Brings to mind "leaning crown syndrome." I haven't ever seen that in a Queen, but very common with Howea forsteriana where it can be very obvious and pronounced; also in Archontophoenix, but rarely. Is that the boron deficiency being mentioned?

[Motlife]

I don't think I'm keen to dig up some soil from a random motel for testing, as much as I'd like to know the answer! 

 

From a quick Google it seems nobody knows the cause of leaning crown syndrome. The one on the right looks a bit leany for sure, but the one on the left is fairly symmetrical, just with the weird leaves. There's a reasonable number of archontophoenix and a number of kentia around this area and I've never seen any similar issues, either leaning or funky leaves. Or on any other palm species either. 

 

The boron deficiency seems to be the most likely, but looking at the article posted about it by Merlyn the symptoms don't match super well. Next time I'm there I'll see if accordion leaf is potentially occurring as that was mentioned as a symptom in the article.