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Reflected heat and Sabal minor


westfork

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Can Sabal minor take reflected heat in the summer?
We are starting a very experimental palm planting on the west side of a brick structure up in USDA hardiness zone 5, heat zone 6/7, and 43 north latitude.  It is in an easy location to provide winter shelter.  The mainstays will be Sabal minor McCurtain, Cherokee, and a couple others as well as a Louisiana and x Brazoriensis mixed in.  Needle palms in a different spot.
-This location does not have full sun, only from 1PM to 9PM, but the morning is still very bright.  We usually  have intense sun and deep blue skies from the moment the sun clears the eastern horizon, especially in winter - No haze from being anywhere near a large body of water.
-We have three months where the daytime highs often stay in the mid to upper 90s and the occasional 100+.
-We cool off at night but the brick radiates a LOT of heat after the sun goes down.  I am hoping we have enough sun and heat to build ample reserves for winter survival.  Deep, rich Midwestern loess soils and in an easy spot to irrigate as needed.  Site is well protected from the merciless south winds that destroy anything leafing out in the early spring.

BUT . . . Would that reflected heat off a medium red brick wall be too much, even for the heat loving Sabals?  I have sunburned my share of agaves before learning which species can take reflected heat.
Thanks for any experiences you may have.

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I don't see that being a problem.  It would be best to have it in full sun and on South side but you got to work with what you have.  Plant 1-3' from wall your choice.  They will lean away some.   Will need protection every winter  

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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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33 minutes ago, Allen said:

I don't see that being a problem.  It would be best to have it in full sun and on South side but you got to work with what you have.  Plant 1-3' from wall your choice.  They will lean away some.   Will need protection every winter  

Thanks Allen,  I was hoping since they love heat that the reflected heat may not be a big issue.  I might try on a couple south walls, but only species that can tolerate the days of continuous 50 to up to 70 mph warm winds coming up from the south in April and May.  The only trees in this area to slow the winds are those planted by man after the prairie fires were stopped.

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22 minutes ago, westfork said:

Thanks Allen,  I was hoping since they love heat that the reflected heat may not be a big issue.  I might try on a couple south walls, but only species that can tolerate the days of continuous 50 to up to 70 mph warm winds coming up from the south in April and May.  The only trees in this area to slow the winds are those planted by man after the prairie fires were stopped.

The 50-60 mph winds we just had here didn't hurt the Sabal minor and I have one by a sunny south brick wall that is doing great.

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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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I was going to try  a couple large Needle Palms on a south facing brick wall.  Many times on this forum I have seen comments from far northern growers how the Sabal minor survived better than the Rhapidophyllum hystrix.   Perhaps the deep subterranean trunk or greater tolerance of winter moisture or frozen soil?

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Needles do better if kept dryer in winter. Summertime, all should be given supplemental water if rainfall is less than 3 inches per month.

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Can you provide photos of the planned planting area and nearby surroundings so we can better visualize what you want to do?

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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1 hour ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Can you provide photos of the planned planting area and nearby surroundings so we can better visualize what you want to do?

It is pretty much a blank slate.  A thirty foot long brick side of a garage facing west, the house bends around to the south to give protection (but not shade), and shelterbelt to the north and west.
Looking east, this is a pic of the back of the garage (on left).  The house (on right) comes west far enough for protection from south winds.  Raised bed to the north.  To the north and behind me is the shelterbelt to protect from winter winds.  Plan on sheltering the whole length of that wall up to the heat pump unit during the coldest months.

IMG_8904.JPG

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Shelter Belt: a new term and new concept for me. I looked it up and, Wow! All I can think of is that those Sabal minor will need far more protection than proximity to a heat pump. I hope some PTers from way up north will chime in. I admire your determination and fortitude. Welcome to PalmTalk. Please stick around to educate us on your project.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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8 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Shelter Belt: a new term and new concept for me. I looked it up and, Wow! All I can think of is that those Sabal minor will need far more protection than proximity to a heat pump. I hope some PTers from way up north will chime in. I admire your determination and fortitude. Welcome to PalmTalk. Please stick around to educate us on your project.

Yes zone 5 is super experimental and everything will need good protection. 

Edited by Allen

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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It will be very easy to use some triple layer polycarbonate sheeting to make a lean to greenhouse against the garage for the cold months.  Heat pump will be outside as it would make it colder.  

Looking down the lane (a month ago).  Pup is laying on top of our raised berm in progress for southwestern plants.

G3-XIMG-3711-cr-2-7-2023.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

For what it's worth, got it planted.  Early (5 weeks before last expected frost date) but want to give them a chance to get established before winter.    The heat from that west facing brick wall will give them warm summer nights.  Dug in two yards of composted chipped trees and five yards of ancient composted cattle manure.
 

2 - Sabal minor 'McCurtain'

2- Sabal minor 'Cherokee'

2- Sabal minor 'Beaufort'

1 - Sabal minor Louisiana

1- Sabal x brazoriensis

Ranged from seedlings to three gallon.
1778691244_M3IMG_3969cr3-30-2023.thumb.jpg.55b7ee9403fcbd148f03f7836494e637.jpg

870040863_M3IMG_39713-30-2023.thumb.JPG.34df747695cc9a26021d89230be40772.JPG

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Sending warm vibes.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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