Coconut safety nets

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

16 hours ago, bubba said:

In the words of PT Barnum:

”There is a sucker born every second”!

Yep, and I bet he was especially referring to East Coast Yankees who love to move down to Florida, then brag about how much they HATE Palm Trees!!!

John

[miamicuse]

My apologies if my original post were lacking details so I would like to supplement additional information.

First, this is an existing situation.  The coconut palms are already there, and the swimming pool is already there, the two coconut palms are now quite tall, one is 35' and the other one over 50' tall.  I didn't plant the palms next to the pool, so avoid planting coconut palms where I will frequent may have been a good suggestion back in 1992 when four owners ago built the pool, but not today.  Today I have a pre-existing condition that I consider risky and am just looking for a solution, if there is one.

Obviously, removing the palms altogether is an option, but I do like the look of them next to the pool, not only that, they arch towards and hang over the pool.

As I said, these palms are tall, one is 35' tall, the other over 50', the top of these palms are not over land, they are mostly over the swimming pool, a 20' or 25' extension ladder will not work.  It will not get close to even the top of the 35' tall one, and with the way the palms curving at the base before rising up in an arch, a ladder won't work.  An experienced climber with spiked shoes may get to the 35' one, I really don't know about the 50' tall ones.  Most of the guys looking to get free coconuts won't touch these, and I wouldn't consider hiring someone not insured anyway.  The tree company that I hired used a bucket truck, they told me it costs them $1500 to rent one for the day, and that's why it's $2000+ to cut these coconuts down from both palms.  I did get several estimates in 2020 and they came in about the same amount between $1800 and $2500 a pop.  If it's $2000 each trim, I am willing to pay it to have it done once a year, but they need a trim every 4 months or so, and I don't want to pay $2000 three times a year is what I am saying.

I agree those nets are ugly and unsightly, but if it works and there are better looking versions of it I may consider it.  Not necessarily a contraption around the palm trunk like an upside down umbrella, but perhaps a shade sail would be as effective.  True, a safety net will need to be maintained and once the coconuts have been collected they need to be removed...However, assuming the net is 15' high, then you are simply removing a bunch of coconuts at a 15' height instead of a 50' height, BIG difference.  At 15' a ladder may work, and if there is a way to release one corner to allow the nuts to just slide and roll of it in a controlled manner, it may work.

As far as risks, like I said, in my situation I believe the concern is warranted.  We are not talking about a 10 foot tall palm dropping 4 feet on my head, we are talking about a 50' drop.  The concrete pool deck was repaired in September 2021.  Now eighteen months later, it needs to be redone again.  Yes these concrete cracks in the pictures below are from coconut dropped from 50' above, although 80% of them dropped right into the water.

Royal palm fronds?  Yes I do have a 50' tall Royal palm and it drops fronds 10'+ long.  I don't worry about it, I am under it all the time and have many potted plants there.  The reason is I have clusters of Chinese fan palms around the royal palm and they are between 6' to 20'  tall, and they always break the fall of a Royal palm frond.  A frond has a much larger surface area and it doesn't bother me one bit, none of the potted plants under it, or any of the Chinese fan palm leaves, or my wrought iron fence pickets has ever been broken or mishapened by a fallen Royal palm frond over the years.  But I have had a few close calls with coconuts.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

14 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Insane but also hysterically funny - unless you have a phobia about coconuts

I think East Coast Yankees, especially the ones from New York have a BIG TIME Phobia of the Chupacabra Monster Coconuts Getting Them in the middle of the night, yet they keep moving to South Florida in Droves!!!  Go figure???

John

[ZPalms]

The reasonings in that article are so silly, boo hoo people climbing public coconuts to grab the fruit that is said to be so dangerous and normal tree branches are probably more of concern than a coconut but if one does come flying then get your mitten on and catch some free food 😂

[Looking Glass]

The first time I ever came to Florida was about 30 years ago.  Drove down on college break from NY in February for a two week camping trip in the Everglades with a group.   (This was long before the movie, “Castaway”, by the way).  

We arrived after dark and pitched some tents for the night in an open area in Everglades National Park on the edge of Florida Bay.   Palm trees silhouetting a bright moon…  humid, warm, marly, quiet salt air…  it was an amazing sight,  smell and feeling out there.   I’ve never been able to get it back again.  

That night we heard it.  “Thump-thud”… a little ways away.  At dawn we set up the rest of the camp, but still the first couple nights you’d hear the occasional “Thump-thud” in the dark.    

It wasn’t until after that, when a coconut fell closer to a tent, that we realized it was actually coconuts hitting the ground in the quiet night.   No one ever got hit, but we were careful to look up and rearrange the tents a little after that.   

Later that week a cold front moved in, and though it wasn’t Northeast US cold, but still pretty chilly sleeping outside every day for weeks.  I packed a little too light too.   I left with 100s of mosquito bites on each exposed limb, tons of alligator, snake, lizard, and crocodile pics, and some great memories and experiences from camping, kayaking and hiking all over the park.  

Now I’ve lived solely in South Florida for 13+ years, and am used to every tree being a palm tree down here, and can never again get back the awe of that first experience.  

@miamicuse, I think you posted about these trees last year too.   You probably know what the answer really is.  They are up in the power lines and causing problems at this point, and it’s going to get worse ever year.   The sooner you get these down, the sooner you can get something better growing, that you can enjoy for the next 20 years.  

They aren’t a rare or challenging tree to grow here.  Every random non-plant person has a couple in their yard.  They are big and fast and problematic when they lean in very tight, populated residential urban areas.  Beautiful, but not the right palm for every spot, and as common here as maple and pine trees in other parts of the country.   

[bubba]

Florida Plunder and Loot will be in shortly if the palms are jonesing with the wires. Swamp Ape sighting off Tamiami Trail wearing a jock strap!

[PalmatierMeg]

7 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

The first time I ever came to Florida was about 30 years ago.  Drove down on college break from NY in February for a two week camping trip in the Everglades with a group.   (This was long before the movie, “Castaway”, by the way).  

We arrived after dark and pitched some tents for the night in an open area in Everglades National Park on the edge of Florida Bay.   Palm trees silhouetting a bright moon…  humid, warm, marly, quiet salt air…  it was an amazing sight,  smell and feeling out there.   I’ve never been able to get it back again.  

That night we heard it.  “Thump-thud”… a little ways away.  At dawn we set up the rest of the camp, but still the first couple nights you’d hear the occasional “Thump-thud” in the dark.    

It wasn’t until after that, when a coconut fell closer to a tent, that we realized it was actually coconuts hitting the ground in the quiet night.   No one ever got hit, but we were careful to look up and rearrange the tents a little after that.   

Later that week a cold front moved in, and though it wasn’t Northeast US cold, but still pretty chilly sleeping outside every day for weeks.  I packed a little too light too.   I left with 100s of mosquito bites on each exposed limb, tons of alligator, snake, lizard, and crocodile pics, and some great memories and experiences from camping, kayaking and hiking all over the park.  

Now I’ve lived solely in South Florida for 13+ years, and am used to every tree being a palm tree down here, and can never again get back the awe of that first experience.  

@miamicuse, I think you posted about these trees last year too.   You probably know what the answer really is.  They are up in the power lines and causing problems at this point, and it’s going to get worse ever year.   The sooner you get these down, the sooner you can get something better growing, that you can enjoy for the next 20 years.  

They aren’t a rare or challenging tree to grow here.  Every random non-plant person has a couple in their yard.  They are big and fast and problematic when they lean in very tight, populated residential urban areas.  Beautiful, but not the right palm for every spot, and as common here as maple and pine trees in other parts of the country.   

Wholly agree: get rid of them. They are more trouble/expense than they are worth.

[mnorell]

On 3/5/2023 at 10:49 PM, PalmsandLiszt said:

I was thinking just this. Why on earth should it cost $2k to remove a few coconuts? You just need a ladder (a few hundred dollars at most, and it is re-useable) and a tree saw (<$100, ditto). If you don't feel physically capable of doing it yourself, ask a friend or relative. It will probably take less than 15 minutes. If the coconut industry had to pay $2k to harvest every tree, coconuts would be considerably more expensive than beluga caviar. They are obviously not, so there is some major profiteering going on here by the tree surgery/maintenance company in question. It would be rather like a company charging $2k to clean an attic window of a normal house.

According to the CDC, "Each year in the US, more than 500,000 people are treated and about 300 people die from ladder-related injuries."  The "old man fixing the roof" syndrome. Saving some $$$ and a "High T" fix and then paying a lot more $$$ in the hospital or your family to the funeral home for your premature interment. You pay licensed arborists/tree services money for the skill and training of the people you're asking to endanger their lives in trimming and caring for your trees. Those companies are paying high workers comp rates for a reason, have a large investment in vehicles and equipment, all subsidized by the rates they charge, and if you think you have a better chance of not losing your balance/grip on a tall ladder trying to cut coconuts to save the possibility that one may conk you on the head, perhaps we can find a good analyst for you. 🙂 

[SeanK]

9 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

The first time I ever came to Florida was about 30 years ago.  Drove down on college break from NY in February for a two week camping trip in the Everglades with a group.   (This was long before the movie, “Castaway”, by the way).  

We arrived after dark and pitched some tents for the night in an open area in Everglades National Park on the edge of Florida Bay.   Palm trees silhouetting a bright moon…  humid, warm, marly, quiet salt air…  it was an amazing sight,  smell and feeling out there.   I’ve never been able to get it back again.  

That night we heard it.  “Thump-thud”… a little ways away.  At dawn we set up the rest of the camp, but still the first couple nights you’d hear the occasional “Thump-thud” in the dark.    

It wasn’t until after that, when a coconut fell closer to a tent, that we realized it was actually coconuts hitting the ground in the quiet night.   No one ever got hit, but we were careful to look up and rearrange the tents a little after that.   

Later that week a cold front moved in, and though it wasn’t Northeast US cold, but still pretty chilly sleeping outside every day for weeks.  I packed a little too light too.   I left with 100s of mosquito bites on each exposed limb, tons of alligator, snake, lizard, and crocodile pics, and some great memories and experiences from camping, kayaking and hiking all over the park.  

Now I’ve lived solely in South Florida for 13+ years, and am used to every tree being a palm tree down here, and can never again get back the awe of that first experience.  

@miamicuse, I think you posted about these trees last year too.   You probably know what the answer really is.  They are up in the power lines and causing problems at this point, and it’s going to get worse ever year.   The sooner you get these down, the sooner you can get something better growing, that you can enjoy for the next 20 years.  

They aren’t a rare or challenging tree to grow here.  Every random non-plant person has a couple in their yard.  They are big and fast and problematic when they lean in very tight, populated residential urban areas.  Beautiful, but not the right palm for every spot, and as common here as maple and pine trees in other parts of the country.   

Good point. Maybe focus on Latania or Cyrtostachys or Licuala.

[miamicuse]

19 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

 They are up in the power lines and causing problems at this point, and it’s going to get worse ever year.  

They are no where close to the power lines.  The camera angle of the previous pictures was bad and caused the confusion.

[PalmsandLiszt]

18 hours ago, mnorell said:

According to the CDC, "Each year in the US, more than 500,000 people are treated and about 300 people die from ladder-related injuries."  The "old man fixing the roof" syndrome. Saving some $$$ and a "High T" fix and then paying a lot more $$$ in the hospital or your family to the funeral home for your premature interment. You pay licensed arborists/tree services money for the skill and training of the people you're asking to endanger their lives in trimming and caring for your trees. Those companies are paying high workers comp rates for a reason, have a large investment in vehicles and equipment, all subsidized by the rates they charge, and if you think you have a better chance of not losing your balance/grip on a tall ladder trying to cut coconuts to save the possibility that one may conk you on the head, perhaps we can find a good analyst for you. 🙂 

The OP's trees are taller than I had imagined. I concede that. But my point about the coconut industry still stands. Why do coconuts (the fruit) cost peanuts if it's reasonable to charge $2k to remove a few nuts from two trees? No doubt there are savings to be made through sheer quantity on a plantation, but I find it difficult to believe that these are of ~ four orders of magnitude.

[mnorell]

3 hours ago, PalmsandLiszt said:

The OP's trees are taller than I had imagined. I concede that. But my point about the coconut industry still stands. Why do coconuts (the fruit) cost peanuts if it's reasonable to charge $2k to remove a few nuts from two trees? No doubt there are savings to be made through sheer quantity on a plantation, but I find it difficult to believe that these are of ~ four orders of magnitude.

Well...first of all, there is no such thing as the "coconut industry" in the USA. That should not be the case, but it is. They grow so well and fruit so generously in South Florida that it seems a natural but to my knowledge has never been utilized commercially, at least not on any scale.

Totally agree that it's not "reasonable" for anyone to charge $2k to remove a few nuts from two trees. The arborist I used in the Keys charged a few hundred bucks per hour for a crew of several guys with whatever equipment was required for the job(s) at hand. Of course no business wants to marshal their employees/equipment and travel to your site and back, if that's all you want done, without charging you for the effort involved. You will do a lot better to have a day's worth of topwork/maintenance done on your other landscape trees at the same time. When you do that, they will grab the fruit off the trees for you for very little additional, the minutes involved will be quickly subsumed into the annual cost of opening up your tree-crowns for hurricane season, etc. 

In the Keys, the "coconut industry" consists of a bunch of vendors who set up near the southernmost marker in Key West or a few other strategic tourist spots and charge ridiculous amounts to stick a straw into the fruit for drinking. These folks can be seen driving around the other islands scoping out street-side trees with low-hanging fruit to grab surreptitiously with a pole-saw...that's what I call a low cost of doing business!

[Little Tex]

4 hours ago, PalmsandLiszt said:

The OP's trees are taller than I had imagined. I concede that. But my point about the coconut industry still stands. Why do coconuts (the fruit) cost peanuts if it's reasonable to charge $2k to remove a few nuts from two trees? No doubt there are savings to be made through sheer quantity on a plantation, but I find it difficult to believe that these are of ~ four orders of magnitude.

your right, i mean look at this you just need a big ol stick

 

[cocoforcoconuts]

On 3/5/2023 at 10:18 AM, mnorell said:

Coconuts bring the world gifts far greater than its inherent dangers. I had loads of Cocos at our place in the Keys and never had an issue, and never worried about it, either. Roystonea leaves, on the other hand...watch out!!! Funny if that's true that Miami wants to stop planting Cocos, yet they plant Roystonea everywhere, including right next to roadways and above parked cars. I've had mammoth Roystonea leaves crash down near me and that had me much more scared than any coconut! Also, I do believe that most coconut-related deaths in the world historically have been from mothers in tropical countries/oceania laying their babies to nap unwittingly under a coconut tree...without looking up first to assess. Also, coconuts usually drop from trees when they are ready to germinate, after the water in the seed (which gives most of the weight to developing coconuts) is mostly gone. A seed-nut is much lighter than a water-nut, which must be manually severed from the tree (and coconuts are not easy to separate when they are that young). It does happen that a heavy nut falls prematurely, and certainly has killed adults here and there, but I think it is really overblown. 

As Meg said above, if you're terrified of the sky falling because of your coconut trees, don't plant them in the first place. Or plant something like a red spicata, which have significantly smaller fruits. I'm sure more people are killed by falling branches from oaks and other trees than from the seeds of Cocos nucifera...I have witnessed a large pecan tree snap in two and come crashing down (luckily into an empty lot) and also a friend nearly killed when a mammoth pin-oak/water-oak fell over and smashed her house. We don't usually have to worry about Cocos nucifera falling over on people's houses. So the moral here...try to make intelligent planting decisions, be aware of your surroundings, live defensively but in moderation, and try not to focus your anxieties on a singular perceived danger in the world around you. Oh, and don't park your car under a royal palm.

https://www.local10.com/news/local/2023/02/23/mayor-says-freak-accident-killed-pembroke-pines-officer-not-lack-of-tree-trimming/

[PalmsandLiszt]

On 3/8/2023 at 3:20 PM, Little Tex said:

your right, i mean look at this you just need a big ol stick

 

Interesting video. The big ol stick method certainly seems to work for them. But what happens when their trees get taller? I'm genuinely interested.

[PalmsandLiszt]

On 3/8/2023 at 2:57 PM, mnorell said:

Well...first of all, there is no such thing as the "coconut industry" in the USA. That should not be the case, but it is. They grow so well and fruit so generously in South Florida that it seems a natural but to my knowledge has never been utilized commercially, at least not on any scale.

Totally agree that it's not "reasonable" for anyone to charge $2k to remove a few nuts from two trees. The arborist I used in the Keys charged a few hundred bucks per hour for a crew of several guys with whatever equipment was required for the job(s) at hand. Of course no business wants to marshal their employees/equipment and travel to your site and back, if that's all you want done, without charging you for the effort involved. You will do a lot better to have a day's worth of topwork/maintenance done on your other landscape trees at the same time. When you do that, they will grab the fruit off the trees for you for very little additional, the minutes involved will be quickly subsumed into the annual cost of opening up your tree-crowns for hurricane season, etc. 

In the Keys, the "coconut industry" consists of a bunch of vendors who set up near the southernmost marker in Key West or a few other strategic tourist spots and charge ridiculous amounts to stick a straw into the fruit for drinking. These folks can be seen driving around the other islands scoping out street-side trees with low-hanging fruit to grab surreptitiously with a pole-saw...that's what I call a low cost of doing business!

I wasn't suggesting that there is a US coco industry, but there certainly is one in other parts of the world, which can collect coconuts at low cost. Obviously you'd expect a cost hike to service just two trees, but I still think what you are being charged is ridiculous. The people at the company in question might well be perfectly decent and honest, in which case I'd suggest that the flaw is perhaps at the legislative level. But I don't know, I just think it's excessive; even the most inconveniently-leaning cocos needs one cherry-picker and 2 people.

But companies will always think up ways to make things more expensive, particularly in niche industries where there's little competition. I'm not totally convinced that I'm wrong.

[miamicuse]

OK so basically there seems to be three options.

(1) remove these palms and no more issue.

(2) continue to pay a tree trimming company several times a year to come remove the nuts requiring a bucket truck to reach, at the cost of 2K+ each time.

(3) Let them be and take the risk that when the nuts fall no one is inside the pool where the nuts hit from 50 feet above.

None of these are attractive options.  Due to how high these palms are and I have seen it hit water and the pool coping it is a tremendous impact, one I am certain will cause a skull fracture, and yes I would rather be hit by a royal palm frond coming down, have both at the property at the same height.

I don't really want to remove these palms.  They arches towards the pool and I do like how it looks.  I think these are 30+ years old as the pool was built in 1992 and they were clearly planted for the pool.

Here is a picture I saw posted in the IPS Maui tour thread with the palm arches over the water.  That's a coconut palm right?  Would you cut that off if that water is a swimming pool with people in it?  I doubt it.  It's a really nice feature.  Now this one arches more dramatically and it's much lower than mine so I bet a nut drop will not be as devastating.

so that brings me back to the only option I have which is to have the nuts removed.  Due to how tall my palms are I can't risk hiring some unlicensed folks to climb and remove the nuts, it must be licensed insured bonded tree service companies.

So my final question is, if I am going to pay someone to come "periodically" to remove the nuts, is there a way I can do it to minimize the number of times per year?  Is there a time of the year to remove them that will start a cycle where the next time it needs removal is pushed back farther down the road?  It would be nice if there is a way I can go from 3 times a year to twice a year or even trice in two year, if at all possible.  I don't suppose there is something that can stunt the growth of nuts LOL.

[miamicuse]

Today I hired a different tree service to remove the nuts off my two palms.

They charged a bit less, at $1200 to cut the two cocos.  They didn't use a bucket truck like the other service but just climbed up.

The guy who went up to the taller one said it was 60+ feet tall and he has climbed a lot of coconut tree and this is by far the tallest and it was pretty scary up there.

This is how big a splash when a single coconut drops from 60' high.

Now one thing that worries me is that he told me the coconuts on the taller palm seems much lighter at may be 3-5 pounds where the shorter palm nuts are like 10-15 pounds.  I have noticed the tall coconut palm started to look a bit sickly since the December/January cold days.

Looking at the two side by side, the 60' tall one vs the 35' tall one, you can tell the taller one isn't thriving.  The tree trimmer said may be I should put down some Epsom salt around the tall palm and see what happens.

Here is a picture after the trim taken from my roof.  Is there anything I should do to the taller palm right now?

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by miamicuse