Texas palm photos...

[MarcusH]

On 3/5/2023 at 9:11 AM, DreaminAboutPalms said:

Just to prove how well CIDP can recover from being defoliated over and over again, here is a pre Palmagaeddon pic in Jan 2021 of a Plano CIDP that actually survived. 
 

More than likely it was defoliated 5 or 6 times in the previous decade, and still had a full crown again by early 2021. 

 

 

 

 

 

I've seen beautiful CIDPs here in Texas with a massive crown just like the ones you see in the UK.  They grow back fast after a freeze 

[MarcusH]

5 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

I've seen beautiful CIDPs here in Texas with a massive crown just like the ones you see in the UK.  They grow back fast after a freeze 

A few streets down in our neighborhood.  That CIDP defoliated a few times but always comes back strong. 

[Dpalms]

On 3/4/2023 at 4:54 PM, NBTX11 said:

A Filifera I grew from seed. 

Nice looking Filifera! How old is it?

[NBTX11]

19 minutes ago, Dpalms said:

Nice looking Filifera! How old is it?

I don’t remember exactly maybe 7 years or so. It’s in a highly shaded area so it didn’t grow as fast as my large front yard one but it is super healthy. 

[fr8train]

On 3/7/2023 at 5:05 PM, MarcusH said:

A few streets down in our neighborhood.  That CIDP defoliated a few times but always comes back strong. 

This looks amazing when it recovers. Especially that 2016 shot. I hope we can get some mild winters in the future, without the handful of nights that burn these palms. 

[MarcusH]

19 hours ago, fr8train said:

This looks amazing when it recovers. Especially that 2016 shot. I hope we can get some mild winters in the future, without the handful of nights that burn these palms. 

They're actually people from the UK that tell us Texans that their CIDPs look better and ours don't do well here. I guess they don't know much about Texas. Well as you can see they do just fine and have a beautiful crown when not get hit by a freeze . It's not like we normally get severe freezes every year or so.  

[Little Tex]

25 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

They're actually people from the UK that tell us Texans that their CIDPs look better and ours don't do well here. I guess they don't know much about Texas. Well as you can see they do just fine and have a beautiful crown when not get hit by a freeze . It's not like we normally get severe freezes every year or so.  

Yeah, on the UK CIDP I just dont like how the bottom fronds seem to be growing up into the newer ones.

[Xenon]

Pure robusta this morning in Houston on Hermann Dr.  after 100% defoliation from 17F in December. 

Hopefully we are done with the 3 year ice age and revert back to the 9b/10a pattern 😄

 

[NBTX11]

More recovering New Braunfels Phoenix Canariensis. 

[MarcusH]

5 hours ago, Xenon said:

Pure robusta this morning in Houston on Hermann Dr.  after 100% defoliation from 17F in December. 

Hopefully we are done with the 3 year ice age and revert back to the 9b/10a pattern 😄

 

At least your palms in Houston get pruned over here in SA I still see a lot of dead Robustas all over Bexar County I guess nobody cares of that ugly look. Also lots of people don't prune their palms here. 

[Xenon]

3 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

At least your palms in Houston get pruned over here in SA I still see a lot of dead Robustas all over Bexar County I guess nobody cares of that ugly look. Also lots of people don't prune their palms here. 

Oh tons of that here too. This just happens to be in a very prominent area in the center of town. 

[GoatLockerGuns]

On 3/3/2023 at 10:57 AM, NBTX11 said:

Replaced with what?

 

[GoatLockerGuns]

Washingtonia sp. at the RIM (San Anontio) recovering nicely....

[MarcusH]

18 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Washingtonia sp. at the RIM (San Anontio) recovering nicely....

All of them recover well in Bexar County. Sabals look untouched as always.  

[Cade]

Dactylifera trying to recover south Houston- I thought they were all going to stay green but a month ago they all the frond’s turned brown lol …….. but looks like they will be back in no time 

[MarcusH]

All recovering well.  Mexican , Queen and Pygmy all big winners.  

Edited March 12 by MarcusH

[__nevii]

On 3/11/2023 at 12:12 PM, Xenon said:

Pure robusta this morning in Houston on Hermann Dr.  after 100% defoliation from 17F in December. 

Hopefully we are done with the 3 year ice age and revert back to the 9b/10a pattern 😄

Hoping for as much recovery as possible, such that the calls on the thread below are premature:
https://www.city-data.com/forum/houston/3304472-dead-palm-trees-owners-club-5.html

Edited March 17 by __nevii

[__nevii]

On 3/10/2023 at 8:12 PM, MarcusH said:

They're actually people from the UK that tell us Texans that their CIDPs look better and ours don't do well here. I guess they don't know much about Texas. Well as you can see they do just fine and have a beautiful crown when not get hit by a freeze . It's not like we normally get severe freezes every year or so.  

I've noticed from that "Polar Vortex 2022" thread that there's a sort of "beef" going on between the Texans and the Britons regarding palm cultivation. 🤔

Edited March 17 by __nevii

[ChicagoPalma]

10 hours ago, __nevii said:

I've noticed from that "Polar Vortex 2022" thread that there's a sort of "beef" going on between the Texans and the Britons regarding palm cultivation. 🤔

Mostly about Washingtonias and Canaries, nothing too serious.

[fr8train]

I drove around the last few days, and here are some photos I took..

Fair Oaks Ranch:

Looks like this Canary Island date palm is coming back, which is pretty incredible considering how cold it got, and all the ice this area also received. 

These are somewhere on the west side of San Antonio:

CIDP coming back..

Beautiful Sabals, maybe a little over trimmed. 

Everywhere I've seen Butia it's sort of drooping like here:

Nice little Brahea near the riverwalk downtown:

[fr8train]

Washingtonia at Rainbow Gardens:

Pure filifera? They looked great. In front of an HEB in San Antonio:

The only pure filifera I've seen for sale here in the San Antonio area, at Hill Country African Violets And Nursery. It looked pretty nice, but they wanted $150 for it iirc, so I passed:

More beautiful mature Sabals at the La Cantera mall:

I went down to Laredo on March 1st, I didn't get the chance to take many photos, but there are way way more palms down there. It was also 101F (38C) outside lol

And here are a few more palms I spotted in Fair Oaks Ranch. The photos aren't the best as the owners were outside, but I'm always excited when I find palms up here 

 

Edited March 17 by fr8train

[fr8train]

Does anyone know what kind of Sabal this is? This is at Rainbow Gardens.

[MarcusH]

On 3/16/2023 at 9:58 PM, __nevii said:

I've noticed from that "Polar Vortex 2022" thread that there's a sort of "beef" going on between the Texans and the Britons regarding palm cultivation. 🤔

Imagine living in Texas where palms are part of the state since hundreds, maybe even thousand of years . Texas has a large number of different palms species that can be grown here with long term success without looking for any UHI to keep them alive. I don't know the numbers of palms growing in TX but it could be millions.  So imagine a guy from the UK claiming our CIDPs and Washies look like crap or the UK is so special compared to the rest of the world claiming they can literally grow any palm they want until the end of days  I know I'm overdoing it but this is what it sounds like.  Annoying isn't it ? Internet shopping exists since  I would say late 1990s enough time to proof the existence of very old tropical palms like that are 100 years old .  There's a reason why the UK has no native palms and their palm growing zones are very small.  We can grow palms with long term success anywhere from CHZ 8a and up without looking for buildings , walls that create a UHI . It would be the same if I (zone 8b) starts arguing how successful I can grow Queen palms to someone who lives in Tampa Florida.  The weather and climate constantly changes on earth the average temperature might go up but also our winter lows can be colder than average and the UK is no exception from getting hit by "global warming " .  I could go on and on but I'll stop right there.  It's just annoying.  

[DreaminAboutPalms]

12 hours ago, MarcusH said:

Imagine living in Texas where palms are part of the state since hundreds, maybe even thousand of years . Texas has a large number of different palms species that can be grown here with long term success without looking for any UHI to keep them alive. I don't know the numbers of palms growing in TX but it could be millions.  So imagine a guy from the UK claiming our CIDPs and Washies look like crap or the UK is so special compared to the rest of the world claiming they can literally grow any palm they want until the end of days  I know I'm overdoing it but this is what it sounds like.  Annoying isn't it ? Internet shopping exists since  I would say late 1990s enough time to proof the existence of very old tropical palms like that are 100 years old .  There's a reason why the UK has no native palms and their palm growing zones are very small.  We can grow palms with long term success anywhere from CHZ 8a and up without looking for buildings , walls that create a UHI . It would be the same if I (zone 8b) starts arguing how successful I can grow Queen palms to someone who lives in Tampa Florida.  The weather and climate constantly changes on earth the average temperature might go up but also our winter lows can be colder than average and the UK is no exception from getting hit by "global warming " .  I could go on and on but I'll stop right there.  It's just annoying.  

Exactly. Texas is highly palm friendly 99% of time and palms grow quickly here and except for literally a dozen days a decade it’d look like parts of Southern California. 

You can literally toss a handful of Washingtonia and sabals seeds in a garden bed and forget about it for 10 years and you’ll have huge palms. Washingtonia literally will put on 3 feet of trunk per year here and grow like weeds. 

 Also I’m not sure people fully grasp that the Temperatures that palms survive in Texas are not representative of what they can survive elsewhere. Not many other climates in the world where you’ll hit 10 degrees one week and then the next have 5 days in the 70’s and not go below 50 all week - this is crucial for Washingtonia survivial. 
 

 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Here are from stats from Dallas Winter this year.

From 12/1-3/18: ~108 days in total 

•High Temp < 50 — 13 (12%)

•High Temp < 40 — 6 

•High Temp > 60 — 65 (60%)

•High Temp > 70 — 38 (35%)

 

 

•Low Temp Below 20: (2)

•Low Temp Below 30: (9)

•Low Temp 30-32: (6)

 

•Low Temp >32: (17)

•Low Temp >50: (32)

----More nights >50 than <32

•Ultimate Low: 11

Point here is that Texas is something of its own climatewise. People in Europe or the East/West coasts don't experience the drastic weather swings that the central part of the US sees. As you can see from these stats, although Texas can get bone chillingly cold at times, the vast majority of the time it is warm - basically 6 weeks of year where high temps <60 

 

Edited March 19 by DreaminAboutPalms

[MarcusH]

Right Texas has its own climate and palms do great here.  It's hot It's humid It's subtropical climate .  

[MarcusH]

9 hours ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

Exactly. Texas is highly palm friendly 99% of time and palms grow quickly here and except for literally a dozen days a decade it’d look like parts of Southern California. 

You can literally toss a handful of Washingtonia and sabals seeds in a garden bed and forget about it for 10 years and you’ll have huge palms. Washingtonia literally will put on 3 feet of trunk per year here and grow like weeds. 

 Also I’m not sure people fully grasp that the Temperatures that palms survive in Texas are not representative of what they can survive elsewhere. Not many other climates in the world where you’ll hit 10 degrees one week and then the next have 5 days in the 70’s and not go below 50 all week - this is crucial for Washingtonia survivial. 
 

 

That's why palms survive here in Texas.  After each cold snap the temperatures go right back up to the 60s, 70s and sometimes 80s plus let's not forget our much higher UV-A level all help for a speedy recovery.  You don't have this climate in the UK nowhere ! We're way closer to the equator.  I find it amusing when they compare their cold hardiness zones to ours.  It's not just about the lows it's also about how many warm/hot days a year EVERY year.  The UK is cool to mild the vast majority of the year  with some short hotter summers now and then .  Also England isn't known for being the sunniest country either. Lots of gloomy days with rain . That's why palms grow slow over there.  Each country has their own thing. Imagine we claim we can brew better Guinness beer . 

[jwitt]

10 hours ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

 Also I’m not sure people fully grasp that the Temperatures that palms survive in Texas are not representative of what they can survive elsewhere. Not many other climates in the world where you’ll hit 10 degrees one week and then the next have 5 days in the 70’s and not go below 50 all week - this is crucial for Washingtonia survivial. 

 

 

We can hit 10f most years and not see a low above freezing for entire months.  

No effect on long term washingtonia survival in this region. ((C/S-NM, SE AZ/far west TX)

But yes, Texas can have some mild winters.  Example- winter of 2021 February event.  Warmest winter ever in Dallas up until the event(late February).  

Might also partly explain the high death rate of palms in Texas(2021)compared to other comparable temperature events in other regions.

Or is it the 1 week or 2 weeks consecutively below freezing? 

 

 

 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

15 hours ago, jwitt said:

We can hit 10f most years and not see a low above freezing for entire months.  

No effect on long term washingtonia survival in this region. ((C/S-NM, SE AZ/far west TX)

But yes, Texas can have some mild winters.  Example- winter of 2021 February event.  Warmest winter ever in Dallas up until the event(late February).  

Might also partly explain the high death rate of palms in Texas(2021)compared to other comparable temperature events in other regions.

Or is it the 1 week or 2 weeks consecutively below freezing? 

 

 

 

For you guys yes because you get drier cold. But for everywhere else it is crucial for washiest survival to get warm weather shortly after so that the spear keeps moving and doesn't rot 

[jwitt]

17 minutes ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

For you guys yes because you get drier cold. But for everywhere else it is crucial for washiest survival to get warm weather shortly after so that the spear keeps moving and doesn't rot 

So your saying an cold event that happens before winter(take last December) requires warm weather shortly after for survival?

Consecutive hours below freezing seems way out of whack in Texas.  Clouds, wind, lack of sunshine, and no relief for week(s), that's actually central and N Texas big events. Dallas blows away colder Albuquerque with consecutive hours below freezing in the big events.  

This region does not spend a week consecutively under freezing like you guys. I think that is the difference. 

Not sure what the drier cold is referencing, other than falsehood.

 

 

 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

5 hours ago, jwitt said:

So your saying an cold event that happens before winter(take last December) requires warm weather shortly after for survival?

Consecutive hours below freezing seems way out of whack in Texas.  Clouds, wind, lack of sunshine, and no relief for week(s), that's actually central and N Texas big events. Dallas blows away colder Albuquerque with consecutive hours below freezing in the big events.  

This region does not spend a week consecutively under freezing like you guys. I think that is the difference. 

Not sure what the drier cold is referencing, other than falsehood.

 

 

 

Was only referencing the first two sentences in the post I was responding to.

I guess I’m saying that Washingtonias are way better at handling dry cold compared to wet cold and if they experience wet cold for an extended period of time the risk of rot increases making it more crucial that it warms up soon after. With Filiferas especially, wet cold and moisture in the crown is their worst nightmare.

But yes duration was a huge factor in the deaths

Edited March 20 by DreaminAboutPalms

[NBTX11]

9 hours ago, jwitt said:

So your saying an cold event that happens before winter(take last December) requires warm weather shortly after for survival?

Consecutive hours below freezing seems way out of whack in Texas.  Clouds, wind, lack of sunshine, and no relief for week(s), that's actually central and N Texas big events. Dallas blows away colder Albuquerque with consecutive hours below freezing in the big events.  

This region does not spend a week consecutively under freezing like you guys. I think that is the difference. 

Not sure what the drier cold is referencing, other than falsehood.

 

 

 

We don't spend a week below freezing.  Ever.  Even in Feb 21 it wasn't anywhere near a week.

It's literally never happened ever.  50 year freeze in 2021 and we spent maybe 4 days below freezing.  And that was a freeze of the century type freeze.

Edited March 21 by NBTX11

[NBTX11]

San Antonio winter stats for Dec - Feb

Feb 23 - 2 freezes.  Low of 31.  One other night at 32.  Zone 10.

Jan 23 - 2 freezes.  Low of 31.  One other night at 32.  Zone 10

Dec 22 - 6 freezes, including the "severe" Dec 21 of 16F.  One of those nights was at 32F. 

7 nights total all winter below 32.  2 of those were at 31.  5 nights below 31 and that includes the major freeze of December.   And that was in a bad winter. 

We had a 10 year freeze in December.  Take away that one freeze and we had a zone 10 winter.

Winter months Dec - Feb there were 35 nights where the lows were above 50, including overnight lows as high as 70.  Not a misprint on the 70 degree winter low.  It happened twice actually.  With several others in the upper 60's.

There were 13 days above 80 degrees during winter, with a high of 90 degrees in Feb.  The average high for the month of Feb was 70 and that was about 2 degrees above average.  So far in March the average high has been 77 with a high of 92.  

So yeah palms recover quicker here because it's always, always, always warm just a few days after freezes with highs in the 60's, 70's, and 80s almost all winter.

Edited March 21 by NBTX11

[jwitt]

1 hour ago, NBTX11 said:

We don't spend a week below freezing.  Ever.  Even in Feb 21 it wasn't anywhere near a week.

It's literally never happened ever.  50 year freeze in 2021 and we spent maybe 4 days below freezing.  And that was a freeze of the century type freeze.

San Antonio=107consecurive hours below freezing. Not a record, but close.  4.5 days like a work week. 

That's crazy length for anywhere that far south. 

Dallas, add a hundred more hours!

For comparison, the coldest in this palm capable region.

Edited March 21 by jwitt

[MarcusH]

Denny's at E Commerce San Antonio.  It's raining nonstop today 

[NBTX11]

12 hours ago, jwitt said:

San Antonio=107consecurive hours below freezing. Not a record, but close.  4.5 days like a work week. 

That's crazy length for anywhere that far south. 

Dallas, add a hundred more hours!

For comparison, the coldest in this palm capable region.

Ok I thought you were referring to San Antonio. Yes a little over 4 days. And that was. 50-100 year freeze. 
 

It will never happen again in our lifetimes. 

Edited March 21 by NBTX11

[MarcusH]

Downtown San Antonio 

[NBTX11]

10 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Downtown San Antonio 

Using the people in the photo for scale, the palm in the middle of your last photo is 50 feet tall, at least. 
 

Washingtonia hybrids do very well in San Antonio and are long lived. 

Edited March 21 by NBTX11

[MarcusH]

24 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

Using the people in the photo for scale, the palm in the middle of your last photo is 50 feet tall, at least. 
 

Washingtonia hybrids do very well in San Antonio and are long lived. 

Hybrids and pure Filifera do very well in SA and so far no extreme cold snap took any out.  Not like it gets cold often at all. You can tell the trunk already showing signs of age I wonder how old they are 

[MarcusH]

Windcrest at the park n ride