Largest Phoenix Canariensis North of London

[NBTX11]

One final point about palms and canaries in particular.  What I have noticed is that palms planted young and allowed to grow into large palms are much hardier than palms that are shipped in and planted large.  The W. Robusta and CIDP at La Canterra were trucked in as big palms, planted, and given no real care.  Likely no supplemental watering.  Yet, all of these palms will probably still recover.

Any established, and I mean any, Washingtonia or Phoenix Canary will easily survive the Dec 22 freeze inside of Loop 1604, and up the I35 corridor to Austin.

As far as the major freezes go, the Dec freeze was extremely weak.  Enough to burn Canaries and W. Robusta and Hybrids, but not enough to kill anything.  Similar to 2011.

[Hortulanus]

18 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

One final point about palms and canaries in particular.  What I have noticed is that palms planted young and allowed to grow into large palms are much hardier than palms that are shipped in and planted large.  The W. Robusta and CIDP at La Canterra were trucked in as big palms, planted, and given no real care.  Likely no supplemental watering.  Yet, all of these palms will probably still recover.

Any established, and I mean any, Washingtonia or Phoenix Canary will easily survive the Dec 22 freeze inside of Loop 1604, and up the I35 corridor to Austin.

As far as the major freezes go, the Dec freeze was extremely weak.  Enough to burn Canaries and W. Robusta and Hybrids, but not enough to kill anything.  Similar to 2011.

I can totally confirm that! Seed grown palms in your climate are always more adapted to it and if you plant them relatively young they develop faster and at the same they are hardier to whatever is prevalent in your climate. Be it drought, moisture or frost. Especially with Phoenix and Washingtonias palms I have made that experience! On the other hand palms that were grown in completely different places, having been potted then shipped and moved around are much more tender in general. The worst are greenhouse plants though. But the younger they are the better they can still adapt. A great potting hole also makes a huge difference. If you give them the best spot possible (depends on species) and mix them the best soil possible (what a species likes most) and give them ENOUGH ROOM (a wide and deep hole) they will thankful to you. Being rough on them when they are seedlings in pots before planting out is also great. Because you can get them used to severe drought stress or swamp or both and of course frost. Once planted out and established you can pamper them with water and fertiliser.

[Axel Amsterdam]

1 hour ago, Hortulanus said:

Especially with Phoenix and Washingtonias palms I have made that experience! On the other hand palms that were grown in completely different places, having been potted then shipped and moved around are much more tender in general. 

I believe 2 things are getting mixed up here. Yes, large trunking transplanted palms need years to reach the maximum hardiness that the large ones grown in situ possess.

When it comes to smaller sizes, like the ones you are growing, there really is no data to back up this claim. Small seed grown CIDP’s in a colder climate are not cold hardier than a pineapple sized imported CIDP with a good rootball. I have seen some remarkable cold hardiness in CIDP’s that were only planted out 1 year before, surviving -8C and sub frost days and smaller ones that were growing nicely for years only to be killed in a -6C winter. 

 

 

Edited March 1 by Axel Amsterdam

[Ryland]

22 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

The London CIDP's must have some of the thickest, densest crowns you can get. It could be due to a lack of trimming and maintenance, giving them a more voluminous look, however I suspect it may have something to do with the lower levels of sunshine duration and intensity. The crowns just just look more compact and more dense than you would typically expect for a CIDP. It must be a climatic/geographical factor causing it.

I agree, I think there must be something about the climate - coolness, low levels of sunshine, humidity, etc.  Some of the most full and vigorous looking CIDPs I have seen are those along the northern California and Oregon coast (on a side note I remember mapping all the big ones in Arcata when I lived there).  These areas do not get much heat at all - most summer days stay below 20ºC/68ºF - but they are consistently cool/warm all year without much in the way of winter, and very high rainfall and humidity levels.  I also notice that something similar happens with Trachycarpus - in sunnier, drier climates their crowns are much more compact and squat with far fewer leaves than here.

[Ryland]

Apologies, for some reason that last post went out twice.  Edited this one to remove the duplicate.

Edited March 1 by Ryland
Duplicate

[Hortulanus]

50 minutes ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

I believe 2 things are getting mixed up here. Yes, large trunking transplanted palms need years to reach the maximum hardiness that the large ones grown in situ possess.

When it comes to smaller sizes, like the ones you are growing, there really is no data to back up this claim. Small seed grown CIDP’s in a colder climate are not cold hardier than a pineapple sized imported CIDP with a good rootball. I have seen some remarkable cold hardiness in CIDP’s that were only planted out 1 year before, surviving -8C and sub frost days and smaller ones that were growing nicely for years only to be killed in a -6C winter. 

 

 

Yes that's true. But from my experience the seed grown ones are hardier at a smaller size (compared to a imported/greenhouse plant the same size). But one factor I left out in my post is weeding out weak plants. If you're growing many seeds you can see what plant did get the best genes. If you buy one you just get some random plant. In general size makes them hardier, like with any plant or palm. But I believe long term chances of survival are better if you plant a rather small one. Given you're getting it through enough winters to even become big. From videos and posts here I see also that the bigger a palm gets planted the smaller are chances of faring well. Not just with cold hardiness but with establishing. Probabaly no data on this but that's what nurseries and customers observe. But I'm not sure if there isn't any data at all. I think sometime I read a scientific study about some (not palm) species where they tested something like this. Not sure. I might try to find it again and if I do find it I will post it here.

[Hortulanus]

21 minutes ago, Ryland said:

I agree, I think there must be something about the climate - coolness, low levels of sunshine, humidity, etc.  Some of the most full and vigorous looking CIDPs I have seen are those along the northern California and Oregon coast (on a side note I remember mapping all the big ones in Arcata when I lived there).  These areas do not get much heat at all - most summer days stay below 20ºC/68ºF - but they are consistently cool/warm all year without much in the way of winter, and very high rainfall and humidity levels.  I also notice that something similar happens with Trachycarpus - in sunnier, drier climates their crowns are much more compact and squat with far fewer leaves than here.

Yes they like cool conditions even in their natural habitat it seems.

[Axel Amsterdam]

14 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

Yes that's true. But from my experience the seed grown ones are hardier at a smaller size (compared to a imported/greenhouse plant the same size). But one factor I left out in my post is weeding out weak plants. If you're growing many seeds you can see what plant did get the best genes. If you buy one you just get some random plant. In general size makes them hardier, like with any plant or palm. But I believe long term chances of survival are better if you plant a rather small one. Given you're getting it through enough winters to even become big. From videos and posts here I see also that the bigger a palm gets planted the smaller are chances of faring well. Not just with cold hardiness but with establishing. Probabaly no data on this but that's what nurseries and customers observe. But I'm not sure if there isn't any data at all. I think sometime I read a scientific study about some (not palm) species where they tested something like this. Not sure. I might try to find it again and if I do find it I will post it here.

Yes its true that planting a large sample size will show differences within a margin ofcourse. So some will fail at -6 and other survive at -8C in the same garden. The surviving CIDP i talked about survived -8C combined with days of -4C during a non stop frostweek where everybody was iceskating on the nearby lake. An equal sized CIDP planted next to the survivor didnt make it. 

 

Edited March 1 by Axel Amsterdam

[ChicagoPalma]

Pretty nice for UK to have these beautiful canaries. Possibly I may get one in the future and try to grow it, but it’s 50/50 for me because we have wet winters and I believe the date palms like the dry better. Not worried about cold, but about the humidity and the wet winter in general.

[Hortulanus]

51 minutes ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

Yes its true that planting a large sample size will show differences within a margin ofcourse. So some will fail at -6 and other survive at -8C in the same garden. The surviving CIDP i talked about survived -8C combined with days of -4C during a non stop frostweek where everybody was iceskating on the nearby lake. An equal sized CIDP planted next to the survivor didnt make it. 

 

That's very impressing. I've had failures with two planted CIDPs and currently what looks to be the first succsess. But I will wait until it really warms up. Some failures and succsses in pots as well. I usually keep my potted ones outside all year long. Last time I brought them in was in Feb. 2021. And don't worry I will post about it! But I will wait until time's passed and it's clear if my current one really made in through the winter. I also want to make single threads with the entire stories including pictures so I can always refer to them in posts. I know I have said this before but I didn't know before posting in several threads that people are sceptic or in doubt or want proof for everything (not talking about you but in general) so I haven't prepared any own threads before talking about my palms. To get back to the point: Yes by a small margin but that's what makes all the difference. Be it just a couple (1-2°C) more cold hardiness or better recovery. As CIDPs are borderline to our climate a small difference is already enough as you have just shown. I'm not claiming that you make a CIDP hardy to a 8a/7b (West European) climate just by growing them from seed. I really believe that long term they will pop up more and more in gardens in our area.

[UK_Palms]

3 hours ago, ChicagoPalma said:

Pretty nice for UK to have these beautiful canaries. Possibly I may get one in the future and try to grow it, but it’s 50/50 for me because we have wet winters and I believe the date palms like the dry better. Not worried about cold, but about the humidity and the wet winter in general.

The UK has fairly wet winters and the south coast is pretty cool/mild year-round. The difference is that the water table and precipitation is relatively low in the south, plus the summers are fairly dry with low humidity. CIDP's will struggle with high water tables and high humidity year-round. When the freezes do come that will cause all sorts of problems.

They will take a lot of wet-cool weather but generally need a drier warm period too. They thrive in the Mediterranean where winters can be very, very wet, but summers are then very dry. The important thing is that they don't get defoliated, especially in back to back years or close proximity. Obviously that doesn't happen in London or the south coast of England.

These ones will be 50 footers within a decade or so as they don't get slowed down by defoliations, unlike the ones shown in San Antonio.

 

@MarcusH You say there are no big Washingtonia in the UK, but it is only a matter of time before southern England has big, towering skydusters over here now that they are being grown properly. These ones for instance are growing in an area where the all-time record low is only -6C / 21F. So the all-time record would need to be smashed by at least 2C / 4F just to burn off all the foliage, which still wouldn't kill ones of this size. No chance of that happening nowadays. These ones aren't even the biggest ones in the UK.

 

Edited March 2 by UK_Palms

[Hortulanus]

10 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

The UK has fairly wet winters and the south coast is pretty cool/mild year-round. The difference is that the water table and precipitation is relatively low in the south, plus the summers are fairly dry with low humidity. CIDP's will struggle with high water tables and high humidity year-round. When the freezes do come that will cause all sorts of problems.

They will take a lot of wet-cool weather but generally need a drier warm period too. They thrive in the Mediterranean where winters can be very, very wet, but summers are then very dry. The important thing is that they don't get defoliated, especially in back to back years or close proximity. Obviously that doesn't happen in London or the south coast of England.

These ones will be 50 footers within a decade or so as they don't get slowed down by defoliations, unlike the ones shown in San Antonio.

 

@MarcusH You say there are no big Washingtonia in the UK, but it is only a matter of time before southern England has big, towering skydusters over here now that they are being grown properly. These ones for instance are growing in an area where the all-time record low is only -6C / 21F. So the all-time record would need to be smashed by at least 2C / 4F just to burn off all the foliage, which still wouldn't kill ones of this size. No chance of that happening nowadays. These ones aren't even the biggest ones in the UK.

You might get back to the Chicago palm thread to see what Marcus posted.

[NBTX11]

15 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

The UK has fairly wet winters and the south coast is pretty cool/mild year-round. The difference is that the water table and precipitation is relatively low in the south, plus the summers are fairly dry with low humidity. CIDP's will struggle with high water tables and high humidity year-round. When the freezes do come that will cause all sorts of problems.

They will take a lot of wet-cool weather but generally need a drier warm period too. They thrive in the Mediterranean where winters can be very, very wet, but summers are then very dry. The important thing is that they don't get defoliated, especially in back to back years or close proximity. Obviously that doesn't happen in London or the south coast of England.

These ones will be 50 footers within a decade or so as they don't get slowed down by defoliations, unlike the ones shown in San Antonio.

 

@MarcusH You say there are no big Washingtonia in the UK, but it is only a matter of time before southern England has big, towering skydusters over here now that they are being grown properly. These ones for instance are growing in an area where the all-time record low is only -6C / 21F. So the all-time record would need to be smashed by at least 2C / 4F just to burn off all the foliage, which still wouldn't kill ones of this size. No chance of that happening nowadays. These ones aren't even the biggest ones in the UK.

 

I hope you do have skydusters. I’d love to see it. Nothing better than to see skyscraping Washingtonia on the skyline. 

[Little Tex]

15 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

These ones will be 50 footers within a decade or so as they don't get slowed down by defoliations, unlike the ones shown in San Antonio.

Idk about San Antonio, but certaintly in Houston the CIDP still visibly grow quicker than London ones even after being defoliated, especially the ones on the bay. My trunk of neighbors was barely visible over the fence before 2022 but now, a little over a foot of the trunk can be seen. This is they typical growth rate, so an occasional defoliation wont hinder the growth to make it any less conistent with a CIDP in London.

[NBTX11]

1 hour ago, Little Tex said:

Idk about San Antonio, but certaintly in Houston the CIDP still visibly grow quicker than London ones even after being defoliated, especially the ones on the bay. My trunk of neighbors was barely visible over the fence before 2022 but now, a little over a foot of the trunk can be seen. This is they typical growth rate, so an occasional defoliation wont hinder the growth to make it any less conistent with a CIDP in London.

Same. San Antonio defoliations don’t slow them down any. First off, despite the photos, it doesn’t happen very often. In the last 20 years, CIDP defoliations have happened 4 times. That includes 2021 and 2022. Secondly, in San Antonio it’s common to see 80 degrees plus less than a week after freezes. The average for the entire month of Feb 23 was 70 degrees, and that was right about average. So recoveries happen fast. 

Edited March 2 by NBTX11

[Hortulanus]

2 hours ago, Little Tex said:

Idk about San Antonio, but certaintly in Houston the CIDP still visibly grow quicker than London ones even after being defoliated, especially the ones on the bay. My trunk of neighbors was barely visible over the fence before 2022 but now, a little over a foot of the trunk can be seen. This is they typical growth rate, so an occasional defoliation wont hinder the growth to make it any less conistent with a CIDP in London.

I think it might be the vegetation period. They like to have growing conditions all year round or almost at least.

[Hortulanus]

1 hour ago, NBTX11 said:

Same. San Antonio defoliations don’t slow them down any. First off, despite the photos, it doesn’t happen very often. In the last 20 years, CIDP defoliations have happened 4 times. That includes 2021 and 2022. Secondly, in San Antonio it’s common to see 80 degrees plus less than a week after freezes. The average for the entire month of Feb 23 was 70 degrees, and that was right about average. So recoveries happen fast. 

Sun's also a bit higher there in winter so that intensifies warm up an recovery even without very warm weather.

[Xenon]

I would love to see a 10-20 foot CIDP somehow become a 50 foot CIDP in 10 years anywhere in the world period 😆. There's a reason mature CIDP are expensive, they are very slow to put on vertical height. 

[UK_Palms]

1 hour ago, Xenon said:

I would love to see a 10-20 foot CIDP somehow become a 50 foot CIDP in 10 years anywhere in the world period 😆. There's a reason mature CIDP are expensive, they are very slow to put on vertical height. 

Those CIDP are well over 20 foot in height now. The pictures are a few years old, so they will be slightly taller. At this size, vertical growth is 2-3 foot per year in the most protected areas of London and the south coast. So basically 20-25 foot of growth in a decade really nowadays. The CIDP's in these microclimates will grow quicker than Trachycarpus and leave them for dead. In fact they are almost twice as fast as Trachy's in central London and Ventnor. I have documented tiny 2 foot specimens of CIDP going to 15-20 foot in about a decade, which is quite a lot early on, considering they are usually seen as pretty 'slow' to start putting on vertical height.

The absence of severe freezes and generous amounts of rainfall, compared to places like SoCal, probably means they grow pretty quick in these particular microclimates. 40-45 foot is probably more realistic for the two I posted by the pool though, in the next 10 years or so. They are rockets there. If you notice one difference between the big CIDP's over here and many other places, they have a hell of a lot of trunk boots attached still. You don't see much smooth trunk. They grow so quickly they aren't able to shed the trunk boots. There is going to be a lot of 40 footer plus CIDP's on the mainland within the next decade. I'll post some colossal ones on the Isle of Wight later this year.

 

[Hortulanus]

CIDPs are putting on mass pretty fast. First more in width. Height is a different game. But in their first years they sort of get "scaled up". Then they start to really look like going vertically.

[Xenon]

21 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

 I have documented tiny 2 foot specimens of CIDP going to 15-20 foot in about a decade, which is quite a lot early on, considering they are usually seen as pretty 'slow' to start putting on vertical height.

No, the first 20 years is the easy part. The next 30-100+ years is the slow game, slower and slower 

[Hortulanus]

17 minutes ago, Xenon said:

No, the first 20 years is the easy part. The next 30-100+ years is the slow game, slower and slower 

Many palms seem to have that slow start then a burst when becoming an adult and then they slow down.

[Foxpalms]

5 hours ago, Hortulanus said:

Many palms seem to have that slow start then a burst when becoming an adult and then they slow down.

This seems to also be the case for Washingtonia they are fast when small then as they start trunking they are extremely fast untill 60ft then slow down. 

[Axel Amsterdam]

UK palms, earlier in the chicago thread you

wrote:

“I have 20 foot CIDP in my town, which is 35 miles inland from the coast”

I would be very interested to know the location or see a picture of a CIDP the size of the ones above in your inland location. Is that possible?

 

 

Edited March 3 by Axel Amsterdam

[UK_Palms]

1 hour ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

UK palms, earlier in the chicago thread you

wrote:

“I have 20 foot CIDP in my town, which is 35 miles inland from the coast”

I would be very interested to know the location or see a picture of a CIDP the size of the ones above in your inland location. Is that possible?

 

 

I have posted them before a few years ago. I will get an update on them at some point though. Hopefully they aren’t damaged from this winter, but they are in a protected courtyard spot in the middle of town where there is some UHI benefit. They came through the 2010 and 2018 freezes when much smaller, but don’t grow as quickly as the ones in London or south coast.

[Axel Amsterdam]

20 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

I have posted them before a few years ago. I will get an update on them at some point though. Hopefully they aren’t damaged from this winter, but they are in a protected courtyard spot in the middle of town where there is some UHI benefit. They came through the 2010 and 2018 freezes when much smaller, but don’t grow as quickly as the ones in London or south coast.

Ok thanks, did you post them on EPS? Not trying to be difficult but a 20 foot CIDP outside of London 35 miles inland from the coast would proof me wrong.

So if you have the time please post the picture of the 20 foot CIDP in Guildford. It doesnt have to be an update, an older picture is fine.

Edited March 3 by Axel Amsterdam

[UK_Palms]

1 hour ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

Ok thanks, did you post them on EPS? Not trying to be difficult but a 20 foot CIDP outside of London 35 miles inland from the coast would proof me wrong.

So if you have the time please post the picture of the 20 foot CIDP in Guildford. It doesnt have to be an update, an older picture is fine.

From the base of the trunk to the tip of the fronds the biggest one is easily 20 foot now. I will try and get some updated photos this weekend. I’m not going to post photos from 2-3 years ago when they were quite a bit smaller, although they are on my old phone anyway. I am at work so can’t spend much time sifting through photos.

Here is the exact location on the overhead aerial and you can clearly see the biggest one. There is a second slightly smaller one to the right up against a wall. You can just about make out the silhouette of the fronds on the smaller one, but that is still at least 15 foot as well. These are probably bigger than any in Amsterdam. They don’t get wrapped or given any kind of protection, but it is a favourable spot.

[Axel Amsterdam]

5 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

These are probably bigger than any in Amsterdam. They don’t get wrapped or given any kind of protection, but it is a favourable spot.

Thanks, the aerial looks promising but i will wait for the pictures.

Again, i am not in the climate competition between Amsterdam and UK locations. I only put my hypothesis that CIDP’s dont grow longterm in the UK outside London and coastal up for scrutiny. 

[iko.]

On 3/1/2023 at 12:13 AM, UK_Palms said:

It must be a climatic/geographical factor causing it.

It could be but probably, also because the lack of pruning. In sunnier climates or very windy places leaves will dry, die and fall/cut at a faster rate than in a darker, more humid environment. That way, these London and UK palms achieve a denser crown. They are definitely popular and growing well all over London. In years time, they will easily be common in more places in England.

The ones in Addison Rd in London don’t have the same vigour. Not sure if it is because there were planted already big and so, the root system is not that well established, or because they may have gotten a more manicured pruning.

 

Edited March 3 by iko.

[Foxpalms]

25 minutes ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

Thanks, the aerial looks promising but i will wait for the pictures.

Again, i am not in the climate competition between Amsterdam and UK locations. I only put my hypothesis that CIDP’s dont grow longterm in the UK outside London and coastal up for scrutiny. 

I have driven past ones inland outside of London before in towns before. There are some in Reading and Oxford. Also in Cornwall you can see them 5-10+ miles inland from the coast, there even some largish ones in Bodmin which is one of the coldest parts of Cornwall.

[Axel Amsterdam]

12 minutes ago, iko. said:

It could be but probably, also because the lack of pruning. In sunnier climates or very windy places leaves will dry, die and fall/cut at a faster rate than in a darker, more humid environment. That way, these London and UK palms achieve a more dense crown. They are definitely popular and growing well all over London. In years time, they will easily be common in more places in England.

The ones in Addison Rd in London don’t have the same vigour. Not sure if it is because there were planted already big and so, the root system is not that well established, or because they may have gotten a more manicured pruning.

 

These are large transplants

[Foxpalms]

14 minutes ago, iko. said:

It could be but probably, also because the lack of pruning. In sunnier climates or very windy places leaves will dry, die and fall/cut at a faster rate than in a darker, more humid environment. That way, these London and UK palms achieve a more dense crown. They are definitely popular and growing well all over London. In years time, they will easily be common in more places in England.

The ones in Addison Rd in London don’t have the same vigour. Not sure if it is because there were planted already big and so, the root system is not that well established, or because they may have gotten a more manicured pruning.

 

Would you be able to send the link to the street view location because I can never find it?

[iko.]

3 minutes ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

These are large transplants

Yes, it can be seen in Google Street history.

 

1 minute ago, Foxpalms said:

Would you be able to send the link to the street view location because I can never find it?

Sure, they’re next to Holland Park. Check here. 

[Foxpalms]

8 minutes ago, iko. said:

Yes, it can be seen in Google Street history.

 

Sure, they’re next to Holland Park. Check here. 

Thanks, I might have to visit there soon and take some photos it's only a few miles further north from me. The CIDP also seem to have more of a full crown in the recent photos from 8 months ago. They probably get trimmed but I doubt they get fertalized or irrigated and If the soil is the same a few miles north as here it means it will dry out quickly.

Edited March 3 by Foxpalms

[Axel Amsterdam]

30 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

I have driven past ones inland outside of London before in towns before. There are some in Reading and Oxford. Also in Cornwall you can see them 5-10+ miles inland from the coast, there even some largish ones in Bodmin which is one of the coldest parts of Cornwall.

Ok, lets see pictures of the ones in Reading and Oxford. 

I will leave the ones in Cornwall as the area in general is mild and under coastal influence. I believe there are certainly more possibilities there even inland. But just like large CIDP’s magically disappear when you drive 10 to 25 miles inland from meditteranean France doesnt mean there arent a couple of large specimens to be found in Avignon. A nice exception to the rule but certainly not an indicator they can be grown all over the provence and certainly not in the area all the way up to Paris. The same is true for very large parts of the UK. 

So if you pictures of larger CIDP’s that were planted around 10 years ago in truly inland locations then by all means show them here. 

Edited March 3 by Axel Amsterdam

[UK_Palms]

33 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

Thanks, I might have to visit there soon and take some photos it's only a few miles further north from me. The CIDP also seem to have more of a full crown in the recent photos from 8 months ago. They probably get trimmed but I doubt they get fertalized or irrigated and If the soil is the same a few miles north as here it means it will dry out quickly.

I visited them in September and got some better photos. The crowns are filling out properly now. They will look better after a trim later this summer. These are the only CIDP that I know of in London that were transplanted at a pretty big size already. All the others were planted tiny and have had to grow to their current sizes.

[Little Tex]

I think Its an odd claim that CIDP have a 2-3ft a year growth rate, I thought the standard was 1ft a year for the first 20 years, as seen in LA and SF. Especially in a funky climate like London, again we ask you for proof but you give us a satellite image.

[NBTX11]

I had a CIDP that died due to some type of disease (not cold as it died way before Feb 21). It grew a little faster than a foot a year.  In about  10 years it developed about a 4 foot trunk and was 12-15 feet tall overall. 
 

It was totally healthy and then just went into decline and died for no apparent reason. 

Edited March 3 by NBTX11

[Jubaea_James760]

This is 13 years of growth for a CIDP is zone 8b California that I found on Google maps.  1 to 1.5 feet of growth seems to align with my area but I'm sure LA, SD & other warmer winter parts of California can grow atleast 2' plus.

[UK_Palms]

3 hours ago, Little Tex said:

I think Its an odd claim that CIDP have a 2-3ft a year growth rate, I thought the standard was 1ft a year for the first 20 years, as seen in LA and SF. Especially in a funky climate like London, again we ask you for proof but you give us a satellite image.

I can't just stop what I am doing at a drop of a hat and go photograph palms to appease the doubters. I have been at work all day today and now it is dark outside. Also, the satellite image relates to something completely different, as Axel doesn't think there are 15-20 footer CIDP's in my nearby town. Again, I can't just go there on a whim suddenly, especially when it is in a gated courtyard as well, so you and him will have to wait until I have the time to go and view them. When I am not working. I know I can get in the courtyard between 8-9am on weekdays when the electronic gates are open to allow business folk to get into their offices. I will photograph them at some point.

@Jubaea_James760 Regarding growth rates... here is 12 years of growth on the Isle of Wight from 2009 to 2021. These will be even bigger now. Almost comparable to LA.

 

Penzance in Cornwall in 2009, so 13 years of growth as the other photos are from 2022. The first two photos show the 3 CIDP's back in 2009...

 

To this...

 

From this in 2009, to this in 2022, which is 13 years later...

 

Now here are some London ones on street view showing 14 years of growth...

T

 

The one on the far side went from this, to this, in 14 years...

 

Here's another showing 14 years of growth...

 

Also a London Robusta/hybrid for comparison showing 13 years of growth. Washingtonia are even even more impressively fast than CIDP in the microclimates over here.

 

Also 10 years of growth, a decade, on these two Robusta/hybrids near Kew Gardens

 

Filibusta in southwest London showing 14 years of growth...

 

13 years of growth on the Wimbledon Filifera/Filibusta

Edited March 3 by UK_Palms