Best palms to grow here in Chicago

[Hortulanus]

1 hour ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

I will step out as usual because UK palms does the ‘Guardian of the UK palm heritage’ reply to a simple factual observation that long term it’s basically UHI in London and much less climate that keeps CIDP’s green in London.

But i will share this observation; as long as you keep comparing climates and bring in the climate of the UK and London in US palm topics on this forum this will keep on happening. Most of all your posts are climate related and not a lot of palms are shown. It’s all climate and then you will get a climate discussion. 

I'm confused are you talking to me or UK_Palms about posting mostly climate related?

[Hortulanus]

45 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

You have got some nerve. I have barely been on the forums lately and today I log on to see you posting up photos of Kew Gardens in this thread and also old cherry picked street view photos from 2012 or whenever to show a CIDP dying while having a back and forth with Fox Palms. Then you try blaming me for going off topic. I wasn’t the one who started this off today. I only posted in response to your antagonistic BS comments. You were probably hoping to draw me into the conversation.

Also, I can read you like a book. You’ve had one mild winter where you are and now you’re suddenly all high & mighty, trying to lecture us on London’s palms and doing your best to downplay what grows here, just because we had one bad winter this year. I agree, Fox Palms should wind it in with the posts, but you’ll be crawling back under your rock after next winter smashes the Netherlands again. Just like it did in 2021 when you had -12C / 9F there and 2-3 weeks below freezing in Amsterdam.

Funny how you always post about the UK too, even in the European forum. I suppose there isn’t a lot of palms to talk about in the Netherlands. Also if the urban heat island is the reason for London’s palms, why aren’t there any CIDP or Washies in Amsterdam? Or Paris? You guys have a pretty big UHI there in Amsterdam (one of biggest in Europe) which suggests that climate is clearly a factor then still. Way more so than any UHI. Apologies to @ChicagoPalma

Not trying to intervene or take sides in the feud you have with Axel Amsterdam, and I also didn't want to spark things up again, but as a general topic: Aren't UHI also part of climate? I mean it's not natural but human made yet still it's creating or influencing local climates on a larger scale long term. My city has been around since 1288 (age of many European cities) which means from then on, growing it must have had an impact on local climate and increasingly so on a larger scale. Not saying that the overall climate in a region has nothing to do with it but I wouldn't seperate the two. There is a reason we call microclimates because even on a tiny scale a climate can be defined. Central Paris would not be as mild as central London but I can imagine a lot lot warmer than the outskirts and that long term, constantly. So that makes a climate, right? Does Amsterdam have one of the biggest UHIs? From size perspective I can't imagine. But as Europeans do not try to grow palms so often I can imagine there are a lot of inner cities in the milder parts of Western Europe where palms like Washies could grow.

[UK_Palms]

16 minutes ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

Do you really think personal attacks are acceptable behaviour when i post a couple of palm pictures to show how important the UHI effect of London is in reply to some European climate comparison posts? 

It’s not a “personal attack” though, so don’t try and twist it or play victim. You know what you were doing earlier on with your antagonising posts, before I got involved, and I called you out for it. The fact of the matter is that you don’t have many palms growing in the Netherlands, which is probably why you always post about the UK, especially on the European forum. That is just an observation though, not an “attack”.

More importantly your comments about the UHI are somewhat irrelevant since Amsterdam has a pretty big UHI but still barely any palms or CIDP and Washingtonia. The same with Brussels, Paris, Berlin etc. New York City has a bigger UHI than all of those places, but still no palms really. So climate is clearly a massive factor, before any UHI. I really don’t know how you can say that it’s not!

Anyway, let’s both stop posting now and just agree to disagree. We can at least try to keep the topic relevant to the title. I shouldn’t have took the bait before. I am as tired of all this now as much as Chicagopalma is probably.

[Hortulanus]

2 hours ago, Foxpalms said:

Another thing to add is that below northern Europe is the Mediterranean and Sahara desert. In recent years it seems the hot air masses from there are traveling further north resulting in hotter drier weather.  If the gulfstream was to shut down that would also mess up the canary current and N.E Equatorial. The gulfstream water would travel back towards to USA which would actually over time completely reverse the currents. Meaning the equatorial counter current could split pushing water into the southern hemisphere and to the northern hemisphere and what was once the canary current would be reversed brining water from equator (warmer than from the Carribbean) straight up to Europe. Most scientists when they talk about what would happen if the gulf stream shut down think only think about the effect on Europe if it no longer had warm water being sent over here from the Carribbean not what would then happen after that because the ocean isn't exactly going to go to a complete standstill. I personally think this would eventually happen if the gulf stream hypothetically completely shut down.

 

 

That's just a theory but I get your point. The thing that is for sure is that it would change ocean currents on a large scale so it's totally open end what is going to happen with it. Ocean currents coming to a stand still can also lead to a lack of exchange between deeper and higher water masses which can cause overheating in the upper layers of the ocean. Very dangerous for animals and plants in the ocean. But who knows how this would affect ocean currents further and the overall weather patterns, air masses and climate.

[Little Tex]

54 minutes ago, ChicagoPalma said:

I wouldn’t call myself a “child” and that’s just a bit rude to call me a child if I were older, but yes I am one and the reason I didn’t disclose this information is because of privacy and usually when people think of children, they think of younger people who are a bit stupid. I know that because I have a strong political opinion and usually even a adult I know will think I’m a bit stupid just like the rest of the kids and just take whatever I’m saying not seriously. I’ve done my research, I know where to place specific plants and what microclimate would do good. For example, the place I picked for my palm is in the backyard not in a place where is very dry but equally dry and wet with a good draining soil and a large space for roots to expand and for the tree to flourish. The fence keeps major winds away and the area is usually sunny. The house also keeps the wind away and the exhaust pipe from laundry is near by the palm also helping heat the air around the palm. Most kids find my hobby stupid, but I find those little TikTok dances and trends like eating a tide pod stupid. There is a girl in my ELA class who does a random TikTok dance every five minutes, to me it looks like a seizure, to others it looks regular.

Nothing wrong with being a kid, I'm young as well, but its best not to let on easy like you have. Its okay man, there are a few other young people on palmtalk like @JLMand @EJ NJ  and for the most part, our opinions are valued, the only young person who wasnt was that Ohio/Bahariterra kid but I think has some issues or something, Just don't be getting defensive/braggy/insecure and people will value your opinions, whether or not they agree with them isn't your call though. For example if someone thinks palms can't be grown in your climate, then dont jabber with words, their opinon likely won't change.  Also a big reason I am discouraging you from taking on big palm projects, is because I'm sure you dont plan to live in Chicago forever with you love of palms, I don't intend on staying in Houston, too cold for me, but this investment and time, Isn't worth it for you or your parents, so I mean, stick with what you have, learn, and focus on getting out of Chicago.

[Las Palmas Norte]

17 hours ago, Hortulanus said:

... I just don't understand why all of you have such a bad luck with them. There must be a chance!

I knew of a couple of people that grew W. robusta to some decent sizes, 15' or more back in the 90's. They all had at least over head protection to keep the weather off them. I'm willing to try again (for the umpteenth time) once I can get one to a decent size to plant. I'm somewhat skeptical since my soil is heavy-ish here. I'll sort thru that at the time.

[Axel Amsterdam]

4 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

It’s not a “personal attack” though, so don’t try and twist it or play victim. You know what you were doing earlier on with your antagonising posts, before I got involved, and I called you out for it. The fact of the matter is that you don’t have many palms growing in the Netherlands, which is probably why you always post about the UK, especially on the European forum. That is just an observation though, not an “attack”.

 

Do you really think this is a clear analysis to my posts and a normal non personal reply? 

[Las Palmas Norte]

You guys may want to go PM on your differences, rather than air them in public.

[Little Tex]

1 minute ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

You guys may want to go PM on your differences, rather than air them in public.

This shouldn't be an issue at all really, If someone thinks someone else is being antagonizing to a point of causing harm or offense (Axels opinons shouldnt offend anyone) they should contact the moderator. If not let it be, this is a discussion forum, not "I'm feeling butthurt someone said such and such about my climate so I'm going to make it personal" If you have an opinion discuss an opinion, not someone elses motives or such.

[ChicagoPalma]

5 minutes ago, Little Tex said:

Nothing wrong with being a kid, I'm young as well, but its best not to let on easy like you have. Its okay man, there are a few other young people on palmtalk like @JLMand @EJ NJ  and for the most part, our opinions are valued, the only young person who wasnt was that Ohio/Bahariterra kid but I think has some issues or something, Just don't be getting defensive/braggy/insecure and people will value your opinions, whether or not they agree with them isn't your call though. For example if someone thinks palms can't be grown in your climate, then dont jabber with words, their opinon likely won't change.  Also a big reason I am discouraging you from taking on big palm projects, is because I'm sure you dont plan to live in Chicago forever with you love of palms, I don't intend on staying in Houston, too cold for me, but this investment and time, Isn't worth it for you or your parents, so I mean, stick with what you have, learn, and focus on getting out of Chicago.

I’m just sticking with windmills, sabal minors, and needles. The three most cold hardiest. Currently, Im growing palms from seeds so eventually when I might move out to a warmer location, I might plant them.

[Hortulanus]

1 minute ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

I knew of a couple of people that grew W. robusta to some decent sizes, 15' or more back in the 90's. They all had at least over head protection to keep the weather off them. I'm willing to try again (for the umpteenth time) once I can get one to a decent size to plant. I'm somewhat skeptical since my soil is heavy-ish here. I'll sort thru that at the time.

I would try again. I should add that I mixed some well draining soil in big holes for them and I should also add that in my garden under the top layer of soil there is just sand. Have you ever tried a seed grown one?

[Little Tex]

Just now, ChicagoPalma said:

I’m just sticking with windmills, sabal minors, and needles. The three most cold hardiest. Currently, Im growing palms from seeds so eventually when I might move out to a warmer location, I might plant them.

Perfect

[ChicagoPalma]

Eventually I might go overboard with a Mexican fan palm in the future but im just sticking with the three.

[ChicagoPalma]

Also guys please talk about all this stuff about climates and all somewhere else, make a topic somewhere else for all this unrelated to this topic argument.

 

Edited March 28 by ChicagoPalma

[Hortulanus]

I'm sorry @ChicagoPalmaI didn't want to drive this topic into yet another off topic climate beef.

[ChicagoPalma]

No need to be sorry @Hortulanus, just keep this climate beef somewhere else.

[Little Tex]

Hmm where should this climate beef go?...

Maybe HERE

 

[Hortulanus]

8 minutes ago, ChicagoPalma said:

No need to be sorry @Hortulanus, just keep this climate beef somewhere else.

Yes! 😂 I just want to mention that I'm not involved. I sparked it unintentionally by asking about Washies in the PNW. 😂

[Foxpalms]

42 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

Aren't UHI also part of climate? I mean it's not natural but human made yet still it's creating or influencing local climates on a larger scale long term. My city has been around since 1288 (age of many European cities) which means from then on, growing it must have had an impact on local climate and increasingly so on a larger scale. Not saying that the overall climate in a region has nothing to do with it but I wouldn't seperate the two. There is a reason we call microclimates because even on a tiny scale a climate can be defined. Central Paris would not be as mild as central London but I can imagine a lot lot warmer than the outskirts and that long term, constantly. So that makes a climate, right? Does Amsterdam have one of the biggest UHIs? From size perspective I can't imagine. But as Europeans do not try to grow palms so often I can imagine there are a lot of inner cities in the milder parts of Western Europe where palms like Washies could grow.

That's my opinion as well. The climate has an impact and so do other factors such as the urban heat island. That's why kentia palms grow in central London whilst none will grow outside the urban heat island and in Paris for example, there's no chance of a kentia palm growing in central Paris, however a zone 8b/9a palm might work whilst it wouldn't outside the urban heat island. Asides from that what have I come back too! 😂

[Foxpalms]

33 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

Yes! 😂 I just want to mention that I'm not involved. I sparked it unintentionally by asking about Washies in the PNW. 😂

Personally I don't think you started it, or sparked anything because we were just having a conversation about why Washingtonia might fail in the Pacific Northwest and we then discussed rainfall. Then I'm not sure why Axel posted something off topic, about the CDIPS in Kew and a hypothetical situation on what would happen if London had no urban heat island. Either way I was trying to have a discussion, then about that, clearly the objective  wasn't to have a discussion. Then axel and UK palms were arguing because something antagonistic was said. @ChicagoPalmaSorry I went off topic discussing the rainfall differences. I think a syagrus romanzoffianana could definitely be possible in Chicago if given the right amount of protection, such as in the Green dragan videos.

Edited March 28 by Foxpalms

[Marco67]

18 hours ago, Hortulanus said:

I hear that all the time but I still don't understand. I know that Northwestern Europe and the Pacific North West are not the same but have a lot of similiarities in many places. I wouldn't say that I don't have ANY problems with Washies (in fact I lost a W. robusta) but they are a zone pushing candidate to me for sure. We just had a very bad winter especially because of temperature fluctuation, early cold spell and lots of rain but even though my W. filibusta looks very bad it hasn't spear pulled yet and my W. filifera even has all its center spears (green) plus some ok lookin leaves around it (unprotected). Both of them also survived the extreme February 2021 freeze we had here only covered with fleece. Most of the winters they looked fine with only minor leaf damages or spottings if too wet. I watch various Youtubers form the PNW and read their articles here on PT and their conditions seem very similiar to mine. I just don't understand why all of you have such a bad luck with them. There must be a chance! 😂

I don't think Washingtonia's will survive unprotected long term in Germany or the Netherlands.  Last winter wasn't bad at all compared with for example 2012.  We have had winters with quite heavy frost and more than a week of day temperatures just above or below freezing. These damp/cold conditions will completely destroy any unprotected Washingtonia or Phoenix. Only a Trachycarpus can cope with this. 

The PNW is probably better off compared to NWE because although both have zone 8b/9a climates the PNW extremes are less than ours. Unfortunately for them it is also much wetter which negates that advantage a bit. 

West coasts have predominantly westerly winds which blows over the ocean and keeps their winters mild compared to the east coast. The Gulf stream gives NWE a bit extra heat but I don't think that is the main reason for its mild climate. 

[Hortulanus]

3 minutes ago, Marco67 said:

I don't think Washingtonia's will survive unprotected long term in Germany or the Netherlands.  Last winter wasn't bad at all compared with for example 2012.  We have had winters with quite heavy frost and more than a week of day temperatures just above or below freezing. These damp/cold conditions will completely destroy any unprotected Washingtonia or Phoenix. Only a Trachycarpus can cope with this. 

The PNW is probably better off compared to NWE because although both have zone 8b/9a climates the PNW extremes are less than ours. Unfortunately for them it is also much wetter which negates that advantage a bit. 

West coasts have predominantly westerly winds which blows over the ocean and keeps their winters mild compared to the east coast. The Gulf stream gives NWE a bit extra heat but I don't think that is the main reason for its mild climate. 

Not in Germany but in the Rhineland area. Not the Neatherlands but probably coastal areas... 😂 Mine went through the bad freeze of February 2021 and survived. Except for one robusta. Please don't generalise. You can't even grow Trachies in most parts of Germany. But as I don't want to bombard this thread yet again with this subject, if you want to discuss this head over to the following thread and mention me in a post there.
 

 

[Marco67]

7 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

Not in Germany but in the Rhineland area. Not the Neatherlands but probably coastal areas... 😂 Mine went through the bad freeze of February 2021 and survived. Except for one robusta. Please don't generalise. You can't even grow Trachies in most parts of Germany. But as I don't want to bombard this thread yet again with this subject, if you want to discuss this head over to the following thread and mention me in a post there.
 

 

Not in the Rhineland or coastal Netherlands either, where I live by the way. But I agree lets leave it at this. 

[Hortulanus]

6 minutes ago, Marco67 said:

Not in the Rhineland or coastal Netherlands either, where I live by the way. But I agree lets leave it at this. 

You can't oppose me and then say leave it at this. 😂 As I said head over to the other thread if you want to discuss.

[JLM]

Appears a little bomb dropped in here, luckily the mention from here didnt have anything to do with it lol

Anyways, im genuinely confused as to what UK climate has to do with palm recommendations for Chicago, USA?

As for being young, im 17 years old. Im technically still a kid. Its 100% okay to be on this forum at a young age. I joined the forum in 2019, and at that point i was 13 years old. Now that im actually typing it out, ive been here a whole lot longer than i thought 💀

[ChicagoPalma]

4 minutes ago, JLM said:

Appears a little bomb dropped in here, luckily the mention from here didnt have anything to do with it lol

Anyways, im genuinely confused as to what UK climate has to do with palm recommendations for Chicago, USA?

As for being young, im 17 years old. Im technically still a kid. Its 100% okay to be on this forum at a young age. I joined the forum in 2019, and at that point i was 13 years old. Now that im actually typing it out, ive been here a whole lot longer than i thought 💀

Don’t know where you found the post in the mix of UK climate posts, but yes i know.

[Hortulanus]

1 hour ago, JLM said:

Appears a little bomb dropped in here, luckily the mention from here didnt have anything to do with it lol

Anyways, im genuinely confused as to what UK climate has to do with palm recommendations for Chicago, USA?

As for being young, im 17 years old. Im technically still a kid. Its 100% okay to be on this forum at a young age. I joined the forum in 2019, and at that point i was 13 years old. Now that im actually typing it out, ive been here a whole lot longer than i thought 💀

I also started out growing palms in my teenage years and logged into forums (German ones) to discuss them. Looking back the first couple of posts might probably cringeworthy, because I was such a rookie but that's totally fine. You live and you learn. I also feel like nowadays more young people are interested in exotic plants which is very nice and you're also not alone with this. I like it!

[Little Tex]

2 hours ago, ChicagoPalma said:

Don’t know where you found the post in the mix of UK climate posts, but yes i know.

I mentioned him so it takes him straight from the notification to the said post

[Las Palmas Norte]

12 hours ago, Hortulanus said:

... Have you ever tried a seed grown one?

Washingtonia are all seed grown.

I have some started last year from Fayetteville NC. It'll be some time before they size up enough to plant out.

[ChicagoPalma]

Also have washingtonia growing

[Hortulanus]

10 hours ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Washingtonia are all seed grown.

I have some started last year from Fayetteville NC. It'll be some time before they size up enough to plant out.

Ok sounds good. In my experience they can adapt much better. Especially filifera. I'm going to make a thread about my experience as soon as I find the time.

[DTS1]

honestly i never thought i would see people arguing about this-

[ChicagoPalma]

Less worse than seeing a girl my age have a TikTok seizure.

[Hortulanus]

46 minutes ago, ChicagoPalma said:

Less worse than seeing a girl my age have a TikTok seizure.

What do you mean?

[Little Tex]

45 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

What do you mean?

Im not sure if you have seen these disturbing dances the CCP are using to brainwash american children (half-joking)

but its strange, I used tiktok for a little bit but eventually stopped, its such a waste of time and brain power. I can't wait until the government bans this abomination of an app.

[Hortulanus]

1 minute ago, Little Tex said:

Im not sure if you have seen these disturbing dances the CCP are using to brainwash american children (half-joking)

but its strange, I used tiktok for a little bit but eventually stopped, its such a waste of time and brain power. I can't wait until the government bans this abomination of an app.

Also not a fan of it. I tried this app but it bores me. After reading the terms and conditions I deleted the app completely. It's not just American children. TikTok is big in Europe as well but I feel like finally more people are aware of the toxicity it has. I'm not a boomer but I still would consider TikTok one of the most dangerous things for young people in a long time. I don't think it's so unrealistic to be a spy app of the Chinese government or at least they took advantage of it being a Chinese company.

[Little Tex]

57 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

Also not a fan of it. I tried this app but it bores me. After reading the terms and conditions I deleted the app completely. It's not just American children. TikTok is big in Europe as well but I feel like finally more people are aware of the toxicity it has. I'm not a boomer but I still would consider TikTok one of the most dangerous things for young people in a long time. I don't think it's so unrealistic to be a spy app of the Chinese government or at least they took advantage of it being a Chinese company.

It’s parent company is literally owned by the ccp

we should make a post in the off topic thread lol

[ChicagoPalma]

42 minutes ago, Little Tex said:

It’s parent company is literally owned by the ccp

we should make a post in the off topic thread lol

True

[Las Palmas Norte]

It don't take long for things to go sideways.

[Foxpalms]

6 hours ago, Little Tex said:

Im not sure if you have seen these disturbing dances the CCP are using to brainwash american children (half-joking)

but its strange, I used tiktok for a little bit but eventually stopped, its such a waste of time and brain power. I can't wait until the government bans this abomination of an app.

I have seen the way it has massively effected the attention span of people. It's definitely a waste of time, it promotes scrolling and scrolling looking for the next best video. Since the Dopamine is released whilst scrolling and scrolling trying to find the next best thing, not whilst watching the video they enjoy, it massively effects their attention spans. Not to mention all the other negatives!