Queen Palms - what am I doing wrong?!

[Tahoma]

Tree: Queen palms 

Location: central valley, california 

Soil type: clay

Trees (13 of them) planted about 2 weeks ago. 
Many if the  outer fronds are wilting, turning yellow/brown. Some have black spots. They’re getting really unpleasant. 

I have water basins built around them that hole about 7-10 gallons of water. I do this about every other day. By that 2nd day, the top 1inch of soil is dry/crumbly, which tells me it’s ready for more water. 
Our soil seems to be clay. There are times I add water in the basin, and it literally takes HOURS to drain. 
I backfilled with maybe 25% top soil, and 75% native soil. 
 

Are these trees dying? What can I do to make them pretty again? 
 

I’m new to planting. I’m fascinated by it. Eager to learn more.

thank you in advance!

 

 

[JLM]

You say that your soil is clay, if you are doing 7-10 gallons of water every other day and it can take a while to soak in, it may not be enough time in between waterings. I would cut back on how much water and how often you water. A 2-4 gallons per week should be just fine for them right now. Whenever it starts getting warm, you can increase a little bit. Once it gets hot though you could probably go back to your current routine.

The new growth still looks really good to me, and it wont take these trees long at all to shed the damaged fronds once it warms up. These are real fast growers, and can put on a good 1-2 ft in height per year, or more depending on the growing conditions and how much water/fertilizer they get. When it comes to fertilizing, i would hold off on that for another month or so to allow for root growth. I will be interested in seeing how your yard looks in a year or two, it should look really good!

[Merlyn]

I agree with JLM, they look okay for a new planting.  Palms will "eat" the oldest fronds for nutrients and to power new root growth, so don't cut those older kinda crispy fronds.  Doing so will only lengthen the acclimation time.  So the oldest fronds starting to look yellow/brown/spotty/crispy is totally normal. 

After about 1-2 months I'd give them a small handful of "palm special" type fertilizer sprinkled evenly around the entire water basin. 

[Tahoma]

1 hour ago, JLM said:

You say that your soil is clay, if you are doing 7-10 gallons of water every other day and it can take a while to soak in, it may not be enough time in between waterings. I would cut back on how much water and how often you water. A 2-4 gallons per week should be just fine for them right now. Whenever it starts getting warm, you can increase a little bit. Once it gets hot though you could probably go back to your current routine.

The new growth still looks really good to me, and it wont take these trees long at all to shed the damaged fronds once it warms up. These are real fast growers, and can put on a good 1-2 ft in height per year, or more depending on the growing conditions and how much water/fertilizer they get. When it comes to fertilizing, i would hold off on that for another month or so to allow for root growth. I will be interested in seeing how your yard looks in a year or two, it should look really good!

This is very helpful. Thank you. 
 

what is the best indicator for me to water the plants? While researching, I’ve ran into the following information: 

- “new plants need LOTS of water, daily for 1st week, every other day for 2nd week”

“If plant came in 15 gallon container, then water 15 gallons at a time” 

“once top 1 inch of soil is dry, it’s time to water the plant” 

 

What can I follow as a general indicator on when to water the palms?

[Tahoma]

17 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

I agree with JLM, they look okay for a new planting.  Palms will "eat" the oldest fronds for nutrients and to power new root growth, so don't cut those older kinda crispy fronds.  Doing so will only lengthen the acclimation time.  So the oldest fronds starting to look yellow/brown/spotty/crispy is totally normal. 

After about 1-2 months I'd give them a small handful of "palm special" type fertilizer sprinkled evenly around the entire water basin. 

Wow. That’s fascinating. 
 

That’s reassuring to hear that the fronds crisping up, turning yellow, dropping, with black spots is part of the natural acclimation process. Question: What are some signs or red flags that this palm tree is NOT going through the natural acclimation process? In other words, when will I know that this palm is NOT doing good and I need to take action?

[Merlyn]

Good signs are the new fronds are growing out, the light green initial color is ok too.  It should slowly turn regular green over the next couple of weeks.  A bad sign would be old fronds turning crispy brown with the new spear NOT growing.  An easy way to check is to sharpie across horizontally on the new spear and existing fronds.  That way you can see if it's moving on a regular basis.  Another bad sign would be some of the newer fronds turning crispy without aggressive new spear growth, OR browning or dying of the new spear.  As long as you get new fronds growing at a similar rate that the old ones are dying off, then it's probably okay.  It'll take 6ish months to really get acclimated, hopefully by the time it gets really hot.

You'll probably see some leaflets die off randomly, it's almost impossible to buy, take them home, and plant them without damaging a few leaves.

Don't be concerned if the new frond is shorter than the existing ones, that's common for new transplants and for palms in winter.

[Tahoma]

35 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

Good signs are the new fronds are growing out, the light green initial color is ok too.  It should slowly turn regular green over the next couple of weeks.  A bad sign would be old fronds turning crispy brown with the new spear NOT growing.  An easy way to check is to sharpie across horizontally on the new spear and existing fronds.  That way you can see if it's moving on a regular basis.  Another bad sign would be some of the newer fronds turning crispy without aggressive new spear growth, OR browning or dying of the new spear.  As long as you get new fronds growing at a similar rate that the old ones are dying off, then it's probably okay.  It'll take 6ish months to really get acclimated, hopefully by the time it gets really hot.

You'll probably see some leaflets die off randomly, it's almost impossible to buy, take them home, and plant them without damaging a few leaves.

Don't be concerned if the new frond is shorter than the existing ones, that's common for new transplants and for palms in winter.

Thank you! I’ll do the sharpie method. 
 

oh it definitely will get hot out here. Our April-June is 80-100

July-September is 90-115. 

[JLM]

1 hour ago, Tahoma said:

Thank you! I’ll do the sharpie method. 
 

oh it definitely will get hot out here. Our April-June is 80-100

July-September is 90-115. 

During those really hot times, they probably wouldnt mind daily drenching. Since it is cooler, they dont need quite as much. With your soil type being clay, it takes a while for that water to fully soak in. It could be extremely wet in the root zone while the very top layer of soil drys out. I would check about an inch down into the soil, if that top inch is dry then it you could water it.

[Tahoma]

I did the sharpie method. I’ll be checking it this week to see if any spear growth. 
 

Posting photos from today. Do any of these photos show any red flags that I need to take action on? Or am I just overly observing these trees? 

[Merlyn]

1 hour ago, Tahoma said:

I did the sharpie method. I’ll be checking it this week to see if any spear growth. 

Posting photos from today. Do any of these photos show any red flags that I need to take action on? Or am I just overly observing these trees? 

I don't see anything concerning in the photos.  As Aztropic said in the other thread, these were probably grown under shade cloth.  They look extra deep green for sale, but tend to get sunburn when you put them in the ground in full sun.  It'll acclimate, but the yellowed and browned sections in the lower half of the photo are typical of sunburn.  That wasn't obvious in the video, but it is clear in the photos.  There really isn't anything your can do about it, it just happens.  As long as the palm is generally ok with full sun (like queens) it won't be a major iisue.

[Tahoma]

21 hours ago, Merlyn said:

I don't see anything concerning in the photos.  As Aztropic said in the other thread, these were probably grown under shade cloth.  They look extra deep green for sale, but tend to get sunburn when you put them in the ground in full sun.  It'll acclimate, but the yellowed and browned sections in the lower half of the photo are typical of sunburn.  That wasn't obvious in the video, but it is clear in the photos.  There really isn't anything your can do about it, it just happens.  As long as the palm is generally ok with full sun (like queens) it won't be a major iisue.

Thank you! 
 

Attaching photos of the sharpie markings after just 1 day. Some didn’t show any growth, and some definitely did.  

[Merlyn]

@Tahoma that looks pretty normal for spring growth right after planting.  Generally only the new spear will grow, so for example in your bottom photo the older fronds are probably done growing:

[JLM]

Yep, they will be fine. Growth speed will increase as it heats up.

[Tahoma]

New question:

As previously mentioned, I’m completely new to planting. So I have 2 questions:

1) should I add more soil around the trunk? I find some of the larger thick roots being exposed at times, so I top it off with soil to cover the roots but leave the widest trunk flare exposed. Am I doing this right?
 

2) how can I reposition the trees safely so they don’t lean?
3 out of 13 trees lean after winds. Our winds in the area have recently been 20-30 mph with gusts up to 45mpg. All the trees sway aggressively during winds, but end up back in its original position once winds stop, except for those 2-3 trees. I’m assuming I didn’t properly compact the backfill around the rootball to support it..you all would know more than I. 
 

All the help is appreciated! 
 

 

Edited February 24 by Tahoma

[Merlyn]

I have staked a few palms with 1 inch pvc hammered into the ground.  That might not work in clay.  But rebar or steel pipe might work.  As far as depth goes, this is a great tutorial on planting depth and dirt mounding.  It was written by an IPS director and PT member: http://www.marriedtoplants.com/palms/palm-tree-growing-tips-mounding/

[JLM]

It does look like they are planted a little high, but theres really nothing you can do about that at this point unless you mound some soil around the palms. As for the lean, i personally would leave them how they are and just stake them in place to keep them from moving around in the ground. I had to do this with a large Queen that i planted because it was wobbling around in the ground so much. About 3-5 months of being staked down with beach tent stakes and shoe strings and that thing hasnt moved around in the ground since. It didnt even move around during Hurricane Sally (2020), which brought frequent wind gusts of up to 90 mph to this area.

The smaller Queen (about the size of yours now) in the backyard never moved around too much and i never had issues with it until the hurricane, which damn near uprooted it. It got staked (same method as above) and now 2 and a half years later its developing a trunk and will absolutely not move at all. 

Staking them to keep them from moving helps them develop the strong root system needed to keep the palm from moving. For the staking methods, you should definitely not do what I did and do what has been recommended in the above message lol

[Palmfarmer]

Sunburn I think. I get some sunburn on pretty much all my species of palms in early spring when the UV is really high. 

[Patrick]

Stuff is going to continue to grow slow until probably April. You can fertilize late march, then every 3 months until it's cold again- so March,  June and September. At least we're getting rain so your irrigation needs are satisfied for now. The trees look a little high as they are planted now, so you will want to correct that this spring. You will want the soil at, or a little above the base where it makes the bulb shape before the roots- but then the area where your troughs are needs to be at that level, too. Maybe bring in more topsoil to build up the areas. Do not overwork the clay when it's wet as the compaction/ squishing/ overworking of the clay binds the nutrients into the soil so that it's inaccessible to the plants. That's part of the reason farmers don't work their soil out here in the winter- coupled with the slow growth- it's a waste of time. Well, they at least keep the heavy equipment off because it messes up the dirt. A worthwhile task since the soil is still wet and you can actually do it while it's soft, is to get a PVC pipe underneath the root ball so that you can mainline water with a drip system when you water. The clay is dense and the troughs you built work, but there are other things you can do in addition. Definitely amend with good organics as much as you are willing.

For the PVC, get 1" pipe and cut it into about  3' lengths. Heck, make it 3.3 feet so that you get even lengths. Cut one end at a 45 degree angle to make it like a spike,  and drill a bunch of holes in that end as well- maybe in the first 6 or 8" of the pipe. Drive the pipe into the ground with a rubber mallet at about a 45 degree angle a little bit at a time. You want to use a length of a second pipe, smaller than the 1" (I think 1/2"?) to act like a plunger to get the clay plugs out of inside of the 1" pipe and you slowly work it into the soil down to depth. You're basically making a tunnel down to the root mass. Once you have the pipe low enough, you are done. Cap it, or put a micro sprinkler line in it, whatever you want. Blue is the pipe, green is the rootball, red is the soil and brown is the trunk. You could even have the pipe over a little more so that it doesn't get into the rootball, but is landed right at the base of the rootball.

 

Edited February 27 by Patrick

[Tahoma]

2 month video update on these palms. There’s only 2 that I’m concerned about (0:16 and 1:04). Curious to hear your opinions.. 

[JLM]

The 2 you are concerned with are growing, albeit probably a little slower than the others. Thanks for the update!

[Pando]

I don't know if any self-cleaning palms (such as Kings) grow in your climate but those are much better choice than queens. I've paid a lot to take a couple of queens out in my property, they are messy, drop seeds everywhere, and once they grow too high to reach you pay a lot to clean them and they become nothing more than telephone poles. I'll never plant these damn things again on my property.

Queens are stupid hardy. I planted a few some 20 years ago at my rental property in low desert (Riverside co), nobody watered them. They are now monsters. Once they take root, they are bulletproof, they can grow without much water, and you are more likely to kill them if you baby them too much either by over fertilizing or over watering. At this stage put some stakes on the ground about 1ft distance on either side of the trunk with rope to keep them straight until they don't wobble around. Mound the soil a bit so it covers the roots. Then just leave them alone. After 15+ years either pay a lot to maintain them or pay a lot to take them out. This is the way with queens.

Edited April 15 by Pando

[Billy]

16 minutes ago, Pando said:

 they are messy, drop seeds everywhere, and once they grow too high to reach you pay a lot to clean them and they become nothing more than telephone poles. I'll never plant these damn things again on my property. After 15+ years either pay a lot to maintain them or pay a lot to take them out. This is the way with queens.

Couldn't agree more!