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Potting Mix


SailyJ

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Has anyone had success growing palms in a chunky aroid mix or super chunky epiphyte soil such as used for hoya? I am wondering if sandy loam is absolutely necessary. I am looking to get a Kentia Palm. I have not had luck repotting palms in regular houseplant soil even with sufficient perlite so I think the extra oxygen chunky barky mix could possibly work. We don't have many supplies for palm trees such as sand in my local plant shop and I don't want to buy something like MiracleGro.

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Many people here use very free-draining bark-based mixes of various compositions to grow palms indoors. They tend to require very frequent watering. You also want something in it that will bind to necessary elements in feed and make them bioavailable to the plant (usually clay-based, such as leca or seramis/turface). I also find coir chips are excellent for improving drainage (perhaps they are already in your aroid mixture).

Palms will do best in these sorts of mixes if they're grown from seed in them or transplanted when very small; they will grow roots that are attuned to the medium, which is very different from soil. If you want to transplant a large palm into it, I'd only very minimally remove a little of its original medium and let new roots grow out into the new medium.

I don't know specifically about Kentias in these media as I don't grow them, but I'd guess it could be done. But Kentias will also certainly grow well in more orthodox media (amended loam or peat-based) as I have seen hundreds doing just that. When I amend soils, I almost always add bark and/or coir chips, along with pumice or perlite and possibly leca and/or seramis. If someone gave me a pot-bound kentia tomorrow, my instinct would be to put it in something a bit like that. If your palms are dying in soil-based media, you might well be overwatering them, or something else could be wrong.

Edited by PalmsandLiszt
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4 hours ago, PalmsandLiszt said:

Many people here use very free-draining bark-based mixes of various compositions to grow palms indoors. They tend to require very frequent watering. You also want something in it that will bind to necessary elements in feed and make them bioavailable to the plant (usually clay-based, such as leca or seramis/turface). I also find coir chips are excellent for improving drainage (perhaps they are already in your aroid mixture).

Palms will do best in these sorts of mixes if they're grown from seed in them or transplanted when very small; they will grow roots that are attuned to the medium, which is very different from soil. If you want to transplant a large palm into it, I'd only very minimally remove a little of its original medium and let new roots grow out into the new medium.

I don't know specifically about Kentias in these media as I don't grow them, but I'd guess it could be done. But Kentias will also certainly grow well in more orthodox media (amended loam or peat-based) as I have seen hundreds doing just that. When I amend soils, I almost always add bark and/or coir chips, along with pumice or perlite and possibly leca and/or seramis. If someone gave me a pot-bound kentia tomorrow, my instinct would be to put it in something a bit like that. If your palms are dying in soil-based media, you might well be overwatering them, or something else could be wrong.

Thanks for the information. I have had a few bad palm repots. First I used FoxFarm Ocean Forest which not only killed my palms (tried parlor palm and areca palm, the areca palm literally died overnight from the transplant) but almost all of my other houseplants. Quite literally burned the roots creating dry rot. Even gave my hands a rash. Then I tried a parlor palm in basic homemade coir/perlite/charcoal/husk based houseplant soil and it really just didn't seem to like it. I thought if I were to try the kentia palm, of mixing its original substrate with some homemade chunky aroid mix so it doesn't completely traumatize the plant. I have no issue with watering often. I could also try a substrate with clay I did see one at the store but afraid of an adverse reaction.

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Everyone has their favorite mix here, but a "chunky aroid" mix seems reasonable.  My current mix for outdoor potted seedlings is a roughly equal parts mix of generic box store "topsoil" (the loose shredded tree chunks type), perlite, Turface MVP (fired clay pebbles), and Sakrete Paver Base (crushed limestone gravel).  I've started adding in a bit of small pine bark chunks too, but haven't used this for long.  This ends up about 25% or so organic, and works well for most palms in my nursery area.  They get sprayed every day in summer. 

I do *not* add sand or compost, I made that mistake when I first started growing palms.  Sand and compost both compact down into a solid mucky mess. 

Small gravel is great if you want to add a little weight to the pot (for stability reasons) but isn't really necessary.  It does help with drainage though.  I use the Sakrete Paver Base because it's small chunks of limestone and helps counterbalance the natural acidity of the organics decomposing.

Turface MVP is available at Ewing Irrigation for about $14 for a 50lb bag.  If you have a Ewing near you it's worth mixing in.  It's a popular additive around here and for aroid and bonsai growers.  It holds about the same amount of water as perlite.

Edit: Coco coir is also popular, but you have to be careful about the brand and wash it first before adding it to the mix.  Some of it is highly salty and will burn roots.  I've read of people soaking it in buckets or big bins of water for a few hours, draining and rinsing it again before using it.  That *might* be why the Kentia didn't like the previous mix...maybe.  :D

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2 hours ago, Merlyn said:

Everyone has their favorite mix here, but a "chunky aroid" mix seems reasonable.  My current mix for outdoor potted seedlings is a roughly equal parts mix of generic box store "topsoil" (the loose shredded tree chunks type), perlite, Turface MVP (fired clay pebbles), and Sakrete Paver Base (crushed limestone gravel).  I've started adding in a bit of small pine bark chunks too, but haven't used this for long.  This ends up about 25% or so organic, and works well for most palms in my nursery area.  They get sprayed every day in summer. 

I do *not* add sand or compost, I made that mistake when I first started growing palms.  Sand and compost both compact down into a solid mucky mess. 

Small gravel is great if you want to add a little weight to the pot (for stability reasons) but isn't really necessary.  It does help with drainage though.  I use the Sakrete Paver Base because it's small chunks of limestone and helps counterbalance the natural acidity of the organics decomposing.

Turface MVP is available at Ewing Irrigation for about $14 for a 50lb bag.  If you have a Ewing near you it's worth mixing in.  It's a popular additive around here and for aroid and bonsai growers.  It holds about the same amount of water as perlite.

Edit: Coco coir is also popular, but you have to be careful about the brand and wash it first before adding it to the mix.  Some of it is highly salty and will burn roots.  I've read of people soaking it in buckets or big bins of water for a few hours, draining and rinsing it again before using it.  That *might* be why the Kentia didn't like the previous mix...maybe.  :D

Thanks for that. I personally despise sandy loam every single plant grower will use it for non palms and it makes the roots so weak and overwatered because they don't naturally grow in it.

Edited by SailyJ
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1 hour ago, SailyJ said:

Thanks for that. I personally despise sandy loam every single plant grower will use it for non palms and it makes the roots so weak and overwatered because they don't naturally grow in it.

Depends what types of plants.. Most things grow in soil derived of rock, plants adapted to drier areas of the globe esp...  Very few things grow in heavy soils, ..such as those that contain high amounts of fine, silty Clay, and or Organics..

In pots, a soil mix that is too heavy in Organics will break down creating muck that creates hypoxic soil conditions ( Oxygen cannot reach the roots ) which often kills things.

The trick when using "sand" in a soil mix is to use what could be referred to as "Horticultural Grade Sand"  not the fine sand you'd encounter on a beach.  That stuff will hold wayy too much water.

Horticultural Sand looks like the material on the left in the picture, and is of a larger particle size than the "finer-sized" sand on the right..


IMG_8894.thumb.JPG.61d01639db3c1afa96ba8d5dbdc5e6f8.JPG


Some folks also refer to is as " Chicken Grit / Scratch " or "Wash Grit "  Wash Grit = collected from seasonal stream courses, particularly in places such as where i'm located.  I regularly go out to specific areas and collect it, then sift for the size i want.  Works great for everything i grow ..Palms to trees, perennials, etc.. Have a few Palms i decided to grow in all grit / barely any organics just to test.. None have had issues.

I myself mix this, specific %'age of that depending on the plant, with other stuff like Lava / Cinder, Pumice, Turface MVP, and Coconut Peat / Ground Coconut Husk..  Avoid stuff like Perlite, Vermiculite, and / or Peat Moss since Pumice, Grit, and Turface are better alternatives than the first two ingredients.  Peat Moss itself is environmentally irresponsible / unsustainable and is a major pain to keep hydrated here. ..That or it stays too wet and turns to muck., killing stuff.

After sifting / washing through it as needed, i also recycle the inorganic components i use in my soil mixes as well.

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While sandy loam is often recommended for growing palms, it is possible to grow them successfully in chunky aroid mix or super chunky epiphyte soil. These types of soil mixes can provide good drainage and aeration, which are important for healthy palm growth.

When using these types of soil mixes, it is important to make sure they are well-draining and do not retain too much moisture, as palms do not tolerate overly wet soil. Adding perlite or coarse sand to the mix can help improve drainage.

Kentia Palms are known for their adaptability to different growing conditions, so they may do well in a chunky soil mix. However, it's important to keep in mind that every plant has its own specific growing requirements, so it's best to do some research on the specific needs of Kentia Palms to ensure their success in your chosen soil mix.

If you are unable to find the necessary supplies for growing palms in your local plant shop, you may want to consider purchasing them online or looking for alternative sources such as gardening centers or nurseries. Additionally, it is possible to make your own soil mix using a combination of ingredients such as bark, perlite, and coconut coir.

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On 2/23/2023 at 10:24 PM, Merlyn said:

Sand and compost both compact down into a solid mucky mess.

I actually use this very potting soiless mix for my potted conifers - just sand/vermicompost 50/50, it has never failed me, with conifers at least.

IMG_20230224_114357.thumb.jpg.7dc683b5c944c6c9a20784e01a7090fe.jpg

IMG_20230224_114357-1.thumb.jpg.c5207e33bf2265d9dcf20f8cbca52ab0.jpg

Edited by MSX
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Thanks you guys, the sandy loam I've seen growers use is very coco coir heavy and they use very fine sand so it becomes a dark mucky suffocating mess with little bits of perlite. It doesn't look like the picture above, yours looks healthy. My local nursery just made a cactus mix with clay added so maybe it will be great to add. Probably won't disturb the roots too much don't think the palms like it and too big of a risk.

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