Germinating Macrozamia communis seeds

[DoomsDave]

Howdy all!

Scored some seeds at the PSSC meeting on February 4, 2023.

Never sprouted these before; any and all thoughts appreciated.

[Tracy]

28 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

Howdy all!

Scored some seeds at the PSSC meeting on February 4, 2023.

Never sprouted these before; any and all thoughts appreciated.

First question is do you know whether the female cone they came from was pollinated?  Second comment is clean them before you try to germinate them.  Have you tried the float test on them?  I have never played with Macrozamia seeds so have no experience sprouting them even though I have a couple plants growing that I acquired as 2 leaf seedlings several year's ago.  Macrozamia communis is one of the easier growing species in the genus in our Southern California climate.

[amh]

Macrozamia communis will germinate like other cycad species, but this species puts down a big taproot, similar to Dioon spinulosum. Clean off all of the sarcotesta and use a chemical fungicide to prevent rotting. I use perlite for a growing medium until leaves appear.

[DoomsDave]

2 hours ago, amh said:

Macrozamia communis will germinate like other cycad species, but this species puts down a big taproot, similar to Dioon spinulosum. Clean off all of the sarcotesta and use a chemical fungicide to prevent rotting. I use perlite for a growing medium until leaves appear.

What's "sarcotesta "?

[amh]

3 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

What's "sarcotesta "?

The fleshy coating around the seeds. It contains germination inhibitors and can cause rot to occur later while you are trying to germinate the seeds.

 

[Tracy]

17 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

What's "sarcotesta "?

As Amh just shared, you clean them just like you would with palms seeds before attempting to germinate.  The float test I referred to is putting them in water, sinkers are keepers, floaters are disposable.   Do you know if someone pollinated the cone that these came from?  We don't have the weevils or thrips that pollinate these in habitat, so it must be done by hand here and short of that you may not have viable seed.

You may find this post from San Diego Botanical Garden (formerly Quail Botanical Garden) here in Encinitas on pollinating Macrozamia communis:

https://www.facebook.com/SDBotanicGarden/videos/𝘔𝘢𝘤𝘳𝘰𝘻𝘢𝘮𝘪𝘢-𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘶𝘯𝘪𝘴-with-tony/3063655153914986/

 

[amh]

44 minutes ago, Tracy said:

As Amh just shared, you clean them just like you would with palms seeds before attempting to germinate.  The float test I referred to is putting them in water, sinkers are keepers, floaters are disposable.   Do you know if someone pollinated the cone that these came from?  We don't have the weevils or thrips that pollinate these in habitat, so it must be done by hand here and short of that you may not have viable seed.

You may find this post from San Diego Botanical Garden (formerly Quail Botanical Garden) here in Encinitas on pollinating Macrozamia communis:

https://www.facebook.com/SDBotanicGarden/videos/𝘔𝘢𝘤𝘳𝘰𝘻𝘢𝘮𝘪𝘢-𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘶𝘯𝘪𝘴-with-tony/3063655153914986/

 

To my knowledge, only the encephalartos genus will produce (sterile)seeds without pollination. The float test is generally accurate, but there are cycas species from the pacific islands that float regardless of viability, and some seeds will float if they are germinating.

[Tracy]

2 hours ago, amh said:

To my knowledge, only the encephalartos genus will produce (sterile)seeds without pollination. The float test is generally accurate, but there are cycas species from the pacific islands that float regardless of viability, and some seeds will float if they are germinating.

Hmm... I have seen seeds in my Ceratozamia cones as they fall apart, perhaps not fully developed without any opportunity for them to have been pollinated.  I get large seeds from my Cycas thouarsii whether or not I have hit them with pollen, but never have had successful germination of them.  My Macrozamia's are too small to have coned, so can't confirm that.   The Macrozamia communis looks nice if you can plant it where the leaves can hang down some.  This one is on the edge of a slope, allowing some to hang down over the retaining wall, it's an older photo from about 1 1/2 years ago.

[DoomsDave]

So,  how do you clean the seeds? Like palms, with a brush drill and bad attitude?

[Tracy]

2 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

So,  how do you clean the seeds? Like palms, with a brush drill and bad attitude?

I don't know how difficult it is to remove the fleshy sarcotesta on these, versus the  Encephalartos or the Cycas seeds I have cleaned.   If like most, the answer is yes, the drill brush will make it easier and faster.  The last seeds I cleaned were from Encephalartos eugene-maraisii and 90% of the flesh popped off by pinching the seed in my fingers.  That was the easiest,  probably in the tails of the bell curve distribution.   Let us know the effort required once the task is completed Dave.

[PalmsandLiszt]

6 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

So,  how do you clean the seeds? Like palms, with a brush drill and bad attitude?

Soaking them for a few days might help soften the flesh. It does for some cycad seeds, although I've never needed to try it with M. communis. They are easy to germinate but ensure they're not too wet or they will rot.
I found the seedlings of these to be rather slow; the communis seedling I kept is still tiny compared to my M. johnsonii of roughly the same age.

[amh]

7 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

So,  how do you clean the seeds? Like palms, with a brush drill and bad attitude?

I haven't had to clean macrozamia seeds, but for other species, I usually just scrape off the flesh with a knife.  Wear vinyl or nitrile gloves because the sarcotesta is poisonous and can get under your finger nails or even stain your fingers.

[amh]

8 hours ago, Tracy said:

Hmm... I have seen seeds in my Ceratozamia cones as they fall apart, perhaps not fully developed without any opportunity for them to have been pollinated.  I get large seeds from my Cycas thouarsii whether or not I have hit them with pollen, but never have had successful germination of them.  My Macrozamia's are too small to have coned, so can't confirm that.   The Macrozamia communis looks nice if you can plant it where the leaves can hang down some.  This one is on the edge of a slope, allowing some to hang down over the retaining wall, it's an older photo from about 1 1/2 years ago.

Do the seeds from your Cycas thouarsii just crack open an become swollen?

[Tracy]

8 hours ago, amh said:

Do the seeds from your Cycas thouarsii just crack open an become swollen?

You have to clean the sarcotesta off just as described for the others.  Yes, soaking them helps tremendously in softening the sarcotesta.  If I'm understanding the question correctly, you are asking what happens to the seeds at the germination stage.  The answer is that they just sat in my germination medium doing nothing for 18 months more or less before I gave up and tossed them.  No cracking of the seeds.  I initially didn't cut any, but eventually did and didn't find any indication they were fertile.  After that, I cut them if I tried but never had any success.

Relative to which genus develop larger seeds with pollination, in that video link I shared above about pollinating Macrozamia's, Tony mentions that the cones actually get larger if the pollination is good on Macrozamias.  As you pointed out, that isn't true with Encephalartos, but I don't know which other's this is true of.  I was hopeful when my Cycas developed larger seeds, but have never had any success with the ones I have tried pollinating over the years.  Bad technique I guess.

[amh]

On 2/9/2023 at 12:49 PM, Tracy said:

If I'm understanding the question correctly, you are asking what happens to the seeds at the germination stage.  The answer is that they just sat in my germination medium doing nothing for 18 months more or less before I gave up and tossed them.  No cracking of the seeds.  I initially didn't cut any, but eventually did and didn't find any indication they were fertile.  After that, I cut them if I tried but never had any success.

That answered my question, sorry, my writing is not always intelligible when falling asleep.

Edited February 11, 2023 by amh