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Winter Damage in Sacramento, California


Kim

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A friend shared this photo and several other astonishing photos of storm effects on trees in Sacramento, a city proud of its urban forest which includes many trees aged 100 - 300 years old. The way these palms snapped off is pretty shocking, but imagining the weight of those crowns pushed by high winds... wow! Northern California is getting hit hard.

IMG_1065.thumb.JPG.6a14b35d91f869c9af1f760f5ecbfd66.JPG

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Kim Cyr

Between the beach and the bays, Point Loma, San Diego, California USA
and on a 300 year-old lava flow, Pahoa, Hawaii, 1/4 mile from the 2018 flow
All characters  in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

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43 minutes ago, Kim said:

imagining the weight of those crowns pushed by high winds... wow! Northern California is getting hit hard.

While I've read and seen other photos of downed trees in and around Sacramento from this storm, I'm actually a bit surprised to see this with the CIDP's since palms normally handle wind better than most trees.  Both appear to have snapped very low just above ground level.  I'm guessing from the photos this was right where the aerial root base began based on what we see.  Relative to weight.... CIDP versus Prius.... CIDP wins every time.  I'm sure they heard those puppies come down as well as the snapping trunks.  Pretty devastating, thanks for sharing Kim.

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

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No let up in the forecast to 14 days.

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Andrei W. Konradi, Burlingame, California.  Vicarious appreciator of palms in other people's gardens and in habitat

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I have seen the crowns of CIDPs snap off from their weight (one flipping upside down through the roof of a house!) but never have I seen the trunks snapped at the base like this. 

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Kim Cyr

Between the beach and the bays, Point Loma, San Diego, California USA
and on a 300 year-old lava flow, Pahoa, Hawaii, 1/4 mile from the 2018 flow
All characters  in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

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1 hour ago, Tracy said:

While I've read and seen other photos of downed trees in and around Sacramento from this storm, I'm actually a bit surprised to see this with the CIDP's since palms normally handle wind better than most trees.  Both appear to have snapped very low just above ground level.  I'm guessing from the photos this was right where the aerial root base began based on what we see.  Relative to weight.... CIDP versus Prius.... CIDP wins every time.  I'm sure they heard those puppies come down as well as the snapping trunks.  Pretty devastating, thanks for sharing Kim.

Maybe Google Street view could help

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2 hours ago, awkonradi said:

No let up in the forecast to 14 days.

Damage has been pretty extensive across a wide swath of CA.. From flooding along the Salinas and Ventura Rivers / Flooding in parts of Santa Cruz county, and Gilroy, to flooding and marked beach erosion around Santa Cruz / Capitola, everyone is feeling the effects of this pattern..


Rain could continue, ( GFS model runs this morning, last night's 00z ) but that is not guaranteed ( Yesterday's GFS 12Z / 18Z model runs ..18Z esp ).. A big flip in the overall pattern is possible soon.. 

1953845583_Screenshot2023-01-11at11-58-28DanielSwain(@Weather_West)_Twitter.png.2cc501ba29028e6d584555190397a079.png

495748986_Screenshot2023-01-11at11-58-00DanielSwain(@Weather_West)_Twitter.png.74b12dcf3769603cf85196b448e16d3f.png

166915636_Screenshot2023-01-11at11-59-28MarkMargavage(@MeteoMark)_Twitter.png.71142c1c5f4ad9ac5a587c8a11a4b213.png

488190515_Screenshot2023-01-11at11-59-50MarkMargavage(@MeteoMark)_Twitter.png.87a6dc0efbd452024d3673dca8379ed7.png



Keep an eye on the "CA / S.W. U.S. winter 22-23" WX thread in the WX section here..

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Holy smokes. Thanks for sharing this photo. I live in a very windy neighborhood by the beach in San Francisco. All plants in exposed locations grow up with a good deal of wind here, and I've seen small street trees go down occasionally: Hollywood junipers, acacias, and large branches from Monterey cypresses and Monterey pines... there's a poor fern pine sapling across the street that's blown halfway over. There are numerous mature CIDPs in the neighborhood, and I never even considered the possibility of one snapping at the base.

There's a roughly 40ft CIDP about a mile away with a point of extreme trunk constriction from being heavily trimmed as it grew up through the power lines. 😬

From that photo, I have to imagine the Sacramento Valley is experiencing more extreme weather than we are on the north-central ca coast.

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Chris

San Francisco, CA 

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Yeah, it was pretty darn windy up here! 

 

That must have been quite the THUD when they came down. I wonder if aggressive weed-eating around the bases may have played a hand in this? I wouldn't think twice if it was just one that had toppled; but to have two, right next to each other topple in the exact same way? That's a pattern that's worth looking into...

 

 

 

Just found it. 2227 P street. Well, across the street. Bases look mechanically 'tapered".

 

What a shame, the loss...

Edited by Patrick
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Oakley, California

55 Miles E-NE of San Francisco, CA

Solid zone 9, I can expect at least one night in the mid to low twenties every year.

Hot, dry summers. Cold, wet winters.

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Yeah... we have limited evidence, but I've never seen a tall CIDP without a huge mass of aerial roots mounded around its base, at least in its natural form.

I think you're right that these two appear as though that mass was pruned away, or never allowed grow substantially larger in diameter than the rest of the stem.

Screen Shot 2023-01-11 at 4.41.10 PM.png

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Chris

San Francisco, CA 

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Landscapers gonna landscape...

 

I only called it because I have a Guadalupe down the street from me with the same problem. There's even a squirrel hole in it....

Edited by Patrick
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Oakley, California

55 Miles E-NE of San Francisco, CA

Solid zone 9, I can expect at least one night in the mid to low twenties every year.

Hot, dry summers. Cold, wet winters.

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Oh no! A squirrel hole?!? I guess you get what you get.  

No disrespect intended towards the property owner here. This is brutal.

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Chris

San Francisco, CA 

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I agree, no disrespect at all. It's just too bad that the actions, in trying to maintain a nice yard setting, created this consequence. Only us palm geek armchair quarterbacks could assess these things as such. Good thing we don't work for their insurance company. Claim... DENIED!

 

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Oakley, California

55 Miles E-NE of San Francisco, CA

Solid zone 9, I can expect at least one night in the mid to low twenties every year.

Hot, dry summers. Cold, wet winters.

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12 hours ago, Tracy said:

While I've read and seen other photos of downed trees in and around Sacramento from this storm, I'm actually a bit surprised to see this with the CIDP's since palms normally handle wind better than most trees.  Both appear to have snapped very low just above ground level.  I'm guessing from the photos this was right where the aerial root base began based on what we see.  Relative to weight.... CIDP versus Prius.... CIDP wins every time.  I'm sure they heard those puppies come down as well as the snapping trunks.  Pretty devastating, thanks for sharing Kim.

No Prius in the photo but there is a wrecked Mazda 3. I guess no car would survive the weight of a falling mature Phoenix canariensis though!

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Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

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Elegant Homes and Gardens

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11 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

No Prius in the photo but there is a wrecked Mazda 3. I guess no car would survive the weight of a falling mature Phoenix canariensis though!

Hey Jim, how’s your garden holding up?

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2 hours ago, DP Blanco-Niño said:

Hey Jim, how’s your garden holding up?

Thank you for asking. Other than being a bit waterlogged with all this relentless rain, the garden looks as it always does. This area is fairly well wind protected being in a valley and a stone’s throw from a mountain range. Nothing above 30 mph has been recorded here during all these storms but recent rainfall can be measured in feet and inches now rather than just inches. Sunny today and a bunch more rain starting tomorrow. 

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Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

Facebook Page

Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

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On 1/11/2023 at 7:37 AM, Kim said:

A friend shared this photo and several other astonishing photos of storm effects on trees in Sacramento, a city proud of its urban forest which includes many trees aged 100 - 300 years old. The way these palms snapped off is pretty shocking, but imagining the weight of those crowns pushed by high winds... wow! Northern California is getting hit hard.

IMG_1065.thumb.JPG.6a14b35d91f869c9af1f760f5ecbfd66.JPG

Looks worse than the local(bradenton FL) damage from hurricane Ian.  We had no large palms knocked down in my neighborhood, just snapped a few trunks of small clustering ones and one 15' overall sabal palmetto with 6" caliper trunk.  First thing comes to mind from the pic is very limited root development area for those huge palms with all the sidewalk and street pavement.  Reminds me of the physics of a sailboat with a huge sail and a tiny shallow keel.  

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Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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i speculate that the thought of many years of weed wacking towards the base which obviously shows girth reduction and the fact that saturated ground over extended periods of time could cause root water absorption to go overboard are some factors that could of lead to them snapping at the base.  extremely sad to see and with the lush crown, one can only surmise the top heaviness of these palms.  

canariensis in elysian park in LA have huge robust girth towards the base at soil level from many years of adventitious root development.  the google street map pic shows unfortunately the opposite.  hope no one was hurt   

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My Santa Clarita Oasis

"delectare et movere"

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On 1/12/2023 at 11:32 AM, Jim in Los Altos said:

Thank you for asking. Other than being a bit waterlogged with all this relentless rain, the garden looks as it always does. This area is fairly well wind protected being in a valley and a stone’s throw from a mountain range. Nothing above 30 mph has been recorded here during all these storms but recent rainfall can be measured in feet and inches now rather than just inches. Sunny today and a bunch more rain starting tomorrow. 

Great to hear! Looking forward to more pictures of the yard this spring.

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  • 2 months later...
On 1/12/2023 at 1:32 PM, Jim in Los Altos said:

Thank you for asking. Other than being a bit waterlogged with all this relentless rain, the garden looks as it always does. This area is fairly well wind protected being in a valley and a stone’s throw from a mountain range. Nothing above 30 mph has been recorded here during all these storms but recent rainfall can be measured in feet and inches now rather than just inches. Sunny today and a bunch more rain starting tomorrow. 

Jim! Any updates? How bad was it out there this winter? I hope y'all get a nice warm and sunny spring soon. Y'all have been in our thoughts

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On 1/11/2023 at 8:58 PM, Jim in Los Altos said:

No Prius in the photo but there is a wrecked Mazda 3. I guess no car would survive the weight of a falling mature Phoenix canariensis though!

Cars can be replaced, though it can suck sometimes. Hope those cars were uninhabited.

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Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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On 1/11/2023 at 7:37 AM, Kim said:

A friend shared this photo and several other astonishing photos of storm effects on trees in Sacramento, a city proud of its urban forest which includes many trees aged 100 - 300 years old. The way these palms snapped off is pretty shocking, but imagining the weight of those crowns pushed by high winds... wow! Northern California is getting hit hard.

IMG_1065.thumb.JPG.6a14b35d91f869c9af1f760f5ecbfd66.JPG

Yike a Rooney!!

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Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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5 hours ago, KsLouisiana said:

Jim! Any updates? How bad was it out there this winter? I hope y'all get a nice warm and sunny spring soon. Y'all have been in our thoughts

Kurt, Pretty good here. We had a couple power outages from trees falling on lines in the neighborhood but other than that, the garden is doing well. Some of my palms are putting out surprising new growth despite well below average daytime temperatures for weeks on end and almost relentless rainfall. We have one more wet storm to get through this Tuesday and Wednesday and then things finally start looking better. We had some record high wind gusts with a couple of these bomb cyclones like I’ve never witnessed here so a few of my taller palms had some fronds snapped off. Nothing major though. April can’t get here soon enough! 

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Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

Facebook Page

Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

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2 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Kurt, Pretty good here. We had a couple power outages from trees falling on lines in the neighborhood but other than that, the garden is doing well. Some of my palms are putting out surprising new growth despite well below average daytime temperatures for weeks on end and almost relentless rainfall. We have one more wet storm to get through this Tuesday and Wednesday and then things finally start looking better. We had some record high wind gusts with a couple of these bomb cyclones like I’ve never witnessed here so a few of my taller palms had some fronds snapped off. Nothing major though. April can’t get here soon enough! 

I'm glad your plants are doing good. I know how much pride and effort you have there. I'm very surprised by some of the pictures of snapped of palms from others. We had hurricane Laura with ~150mph winds and only saw a few robustas snap off and a few newly planted sabals tip over.  One of my best friends is a lineman and he just got back from your area on storm work. He said the people are so sick of it!  Hang in there and fingers crossed for 80° April 

 

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Will be glad when yall can get a break from all this. I know this is probably a curse though, since it takes no time at all for that state to dry out. 

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Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 1 W. bifurcata, 2 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 1 P. canariensis, 1 BxJ, 1 BxJxBxS, 1 BxS, 3 P. roebelenii, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 H. verschaffeltii, 9 T. fortunei, 1 C. humilis, 2 C. macrocarpa, 1 L. chinensis, 1 R. excelsa

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