OC2Texaspalmlvr Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 So there has been plenty of talk about this polar vortex. I figured now would be a good time to talk about the survivals. At my house none of my palms are established as I have only been in this house for 18 months now. This was there first winter in the ground and was exactly the weather I was hoping to avoid. We had an ultimate low of 17° per my weather station. No precipitation or frost which I believe made a huge difference in survival. All of my palms in the front yard got the same protection. Wrapped with a moving blanket with its fronds tied up. One small Cham Cat got the 5g bucket covering. All the Patric Hybrids survived with maybe a lil leaf burn that was exposed. Surprisingly my B.Alfie is holding up with little to no damage. The only palm that took damage was a majesty palm with the oldest fronds melting about half way. Majesty are pretty bud hardy as my last one survived Palmageddon with little to no protection albeit 100% defoliation. To the backyard , so I definitely have a little bit more tender palms there . Starting off with Cham Seifrizii which unfortunately only got a planket for protection which shows. All the taller palms melted in half and im only expecting a few smaller survivors. My triple Cham Radicalis only got the 5g bucket protection and looks absolutely unfazed so far. Another Cham Cat only got a planket and most of the fronds have melted but all the newest spears look good, expecting 100% survival. I had another multi Cham Radicals I grew from @DoomsDaveseeds which look unfazed with only planket protection but planted right in front of my dryer vent exhaust which I'm sure helped some. Last and most surprising was my large Caryota Mitis with about 6 palms in the cluster. It got the moving blanket protection, and has definitely got some major freeze burn about 50% I'm expecting the whole cluster to make a recovery. One more palm got the 5g bucket protection which was a smal Bismarckia, little to no harm so far. Curious of everyone else's survivals ? Hoping everyone had a great Christmas and a happy new year T J 10 1 T J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomsDave Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 More! 2 Let's keep our forum fun and friendly. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OC2Texaspalmlvr Posted December 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 I'll take pics in a week to see how everything fairs @DoomsDave T J T J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusH Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 I'm in the same boat this year I've bought 4 palms (1x Mexican fan , 2 x California fan , 1x Queen and 1x Pygmy) in 5g size pots . We have one mature Sago already in the ground for at least 10 years . Here in San Antonio we had 5 nights of freezes 16,21,24,28 and today 30/31 for less than 2hrs . The Mexican fan and Queen were planted in March and May , the California in October and the other California is still in a pot that I bought 2 weeks ago. All of them were wrapped in blanket sheets , the Queen palm had also a bucket on it for additional protection but no other heating sources were added . I kind of wanted to see how they can handle this cold . The fronds of the Mexican fan and Queen palm look ugly they're going to die. No spear pull and still has some green in it. The California looks almost untouched with minor damage on the petiole on the older already dying fronds. Whatever doesn't make it will be replaced by California fan palms (filifera) because they look good in our neighborhood and around San Antonio but I think they all survived in our yard but it's a little too early to judge actually. So far it looks good. By the way I left them all unprotected over last night . I certainly didn't baby my palms for one good reason. I want them to get used to the cold because this isn't the last artic winter. Unfortunately they become more frequent now. Winter just began and who knows how cold it gets next time. We could be in a cycle where we get an artic winter every year now ,maybe more than once a winter. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 16F out in the freezing west Houston suburbs... The most prized stuff...got mini incandescent lights, 2-3 layers of fabric, 3 layers of plastic. Chambeyronia hookeri, Cyphophoenix elegans, 2x Euterpe edulis Ditto on protection. Lanonia dasyantha, Licuala fordiana, Chuniophoenix nana and Chambeyronia pyriformis, and Licuala fordiana and Chuniophoenix nana (covers blew off partially on the last two so they are a bit damaged) Acoelorrhaphe wrightii got a pillowcase, plastic, and some heat from a neighboring orange tree. Lytocaryum hoehnei was banked at the bud with pine bark fines and got fabric and a metal bucket, no heat. Looks a bit crispy, spear is tight. Livistona saribus was banked at the bud with pine bark fines and got fabric, plastic insulation, and a cardboard box...no heat. Looks undamaged Livistona chinensis planted around 99/2000. Never protected. Looks much better than it did in 2021. Similar damage to Feb 2011 Some non-palms...mango, Ficus elástica, lychee, various aroids. All got fabric, plastic, and mini lights. Sabals got covered but no heat. Sabal guatemalensis (or "tropical" S. mexicana...seed collected in Belize). Much more tender, has some spotting. Sabal rosei and Sabal casuarium look mostly undamaged. Seedlings got mini lights, fabric, and plastic. 4x Archontophoenix cunninghamia (seeds from @GoatLockerGuns), and a direct seeded Wodyetia bifurcata. Livistona chinensis and Chamaedorea radicalis in the lower right corner got no protection other than a bag of leaves on top of them...look fine. 2x Ravenea rivularis with lights around the bud and fabric/plastic that mostly blew off in the wind (ran out off stuff...gotta prioritize). Inner leaves look good. 9 1 Jonathan Katy, TX (Zone 9a) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoatLockerGuns Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 27 minutes ago, Xenon said: 16F out in the freezing west Houston suburbs... Wow. Is that what the local weather guessers said, or did you observe/record that temperature yourself with a local sensor? 1 Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination (Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time) DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed. "Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 2 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said: Wow. Is that what the local weather guessers said, or did you observe/record that temperature yourself with a local sensor? Average of the nearby wunderground stations...Houston did not do much better, widespread 17-18F even in the center of town. The howling wind really dampened any UHI effect. Damage is not that bad all things considered, probably due to how dry the freeze was. Looks similar to Feb 2011 imo 1 1 Jonathan Katy, TX (Zone 9a) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoatLockerGuns Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 14 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said: My triple Cham Radicalis only got the 5g bucket protection and looks absolutely unfazed so far. 32 minutes ago, Xenon said: Chamaedorea radicalis in the lower right corner got no protection other than a bag of leaves on top of them...look fine. Mine look unfazed as well. I just threw a community pot over them. I got mine from @Fusca, who I believe germinated them from seed procured from @DoomsDave. I had heard they were relatively cold hardy, but now I am REALLY impressed. I recorded a low of 17F here. 1 1 Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination (Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time) DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed. "Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoatLockerGuns Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 1 minute ago, Xenon said: The howling wind Yeah, I experienced that too. We have some serious gusts here at an elevation of 1300 ft. 1 Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination (Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time) DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed. "Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenon Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 1 minute ago, GoatLockerGuns said: Mine look unfazed as well. I just threw a community pot over them. I got mine from @Fusca, who I believe germinated them from seed procured from @DoomsDave. I had heard they were relatively cold hardy, but now I am REALLY impressed. I recorded a low of 17F here. Yep, mine are from Dave as well. I have a community pot of them that will be planted out soon 😄 2 Jonathan Katy, TX (Zone 9a) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight6tt Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 Supposedly got down to 20f or lower for 3 straight nights (Biloxi Ms). I assume I'm a little warmer being one block from the beach but I did not protect my Bismarck at all. If he makes it through and it looks like he will than I am planting a few more. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanK Posted December 28, 2022 Report Share Posted December 28, 2022 Usually, the damage is not seen until temps warm up. Wait until it hits 60° one day and then it will be obvious. I'm in the Atlanta metro area; bottomed out between 5° and 7°. Most of my stuff will be OK. Potted plants and a Serenoa are what I'm concerned with. I covered the saw palmetto to trap ground heat. In my neighborhood are a pair of Jelly palms. Serious leaf curling and a dry, silver look to the leaves. A few miles away a fellow planed three P.sylvestris. They're definitely NOT green today. Silver for now and I expect bronze after the weekend. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusH Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 We're already in the 70s and two out of 6 palms look like crap. I'm not sure if they're going to survive. There's no spear pull yet but I would say they fronds of my Queen and Wash.Robusta are all dying. I wonder if the Queen palm is going to recover. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 22 minutes ago, MarcusH said: We're already in the 70s and two out of 6 palms look like crap. I'm not sure if they're going to survive. There's no spear pull yet but I would say they fronds of my Queen and Wash.Robusta are all dying. I wonder if the Queen palm is going to recover. They are so small if the trunk tissue froze they are dead otherwise you need to protect from rot with copper fungicide several times between now and spring. YouTube (TN Tropics) 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf), brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1), (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1), Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7), 15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1), Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants. Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBTX11 Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 26 minutes ago, MarcusH said: We're already in the 70s and two out of 6 palms look like crap. I'm not sure if they're going to survive. There's no spear pull yet but I would say they fronds of my Queen and Wash.Robusta are all dying. I wonder if the Queen palm is going to recover. They might be OK. I see a lot of green there. Just remember this, burned fronds does not mean death. Even spear pull does not mean death. Washingtonia Robusta get burned fronds around here sometimes. I've seen them recover many times. What may hurt you is the size of the palms. Small palms are much less hardy than large ones, but it looks like you still might be OK. Wait until spring and make sure you have growth coming out of the middle If you haven't seen growth, you can even take drastic measures and perform surgery to cut the trunk down until you get to growth. But at this point, it's not necessary yet. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusca Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 I agree with @NBTX11. Don't give up on them too quickly - give them some time to recover. We often get pleasant surprises! 2 Jon Sunder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OC2Texaspalmlvr Posted January 3 Author Report Share Posted January 3 So a week later and I may have my first casualty. I just got back from my Disneyworld trip yesterday and decided to see how my palms looked today. C.Seifrizi i may have lost the whole clump =( hoping it comes back from the roots. Both cat palms didn't fair much better but may have a couple survivors per clump =/ Now my B.Alfie which upon un wrapping looked really good , today after cutting a few burnt fronds I gave the spear a tug and it pulled way too easy. The next newest spears also pulled which means I'll be doing a trunk cut tomorrow. I'm not expecting it to make it. Fortunately I got a BxPJS ready to replace the Alfie. My majesty palm which I knew took some damage, i ended have to cut all fronds excpet the 2 newest spears. I gave them a lil tug so far so good. All 4 Patric hybrids have zero damage which im stoked about. T J 4 T J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusH Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 Thanks guys and I did what NBTX11 told me to mark the spears. I actually see the spear growing on both Queen and Mexican fan palm. It growths green. The Robusta spear already grew by an inch, the Queen a little less but it growths . I'm surprised that my young Queen looks that it's recovering without any heatsources facing the NW side of our house with only a bucket and a bedsheet for protection. Since I'm not babying it I think it could be pretty cold hardy in future but there comes a point where winter protection is nearly impossible until then I'll enjoy my Queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusca Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 On 1/2/2023 at 10:25 PM, OC2Texaspalmlvr said: So a week later and I may have my first casualty. I just got back from my Disneyworld trip yesterday and decided to see how my palms looked today. C.Seifrizi i may have lost the whole clump =( hoping it comes back from the roots. Both cat palms didn't fair much better but may have a couple survivors per clump =/ Now my B.Alfie which upon un wrapping looked really good , today after cutting a few burnt fronds I gave the spear a tug and it pulled way too easy. The next newest spears also pulled which means I'll be doing a trunk cut tomorrow. I'm not expecting it to make it. Fortunately I got a BxPJS ready to replace the Alfie. My majesty palm which I knew took some damage, i ended have to cut all fronds excpet the 2 newest spears. I gave them a lil tug so far so good. All 4 Patric hybrids have zero damage which im stoked about. T J Bummer TJ! Don't give up on the Chamaedoreas too quickly - hopefully they'll come back. Did you use any lights when wrapping? This front was timed really poorly for your Florida trip! I'm sure y'all had fun in the sun and hopefully didn't think about the cold front while you were away... Jon Sunder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Palm Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 @Straight6tt How does that Bizmarck look now? Mine usually take a while to show damage, a week or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OC2Texaspalmlvr Posted January 5 Author Report Share Posted January 5 23 hours ago, Fusca said: Don't give up on the Chamaedoreas too quickly - hopefully they'll come back. I expect the clumping chamaedorea to come back for sure. I think I'm gonna give up on the Alfie and just plant the BxPJS. We literally got to Orlando the last day of the cold snap. Shorts and t-shirts the rest of the time there 😃 T J 1 T J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OC2Texaspalmlvr Posted January 20 Author Report Share Posted January 20 An update after a lil warm weather. Caryota mitis clump 4 out of 5 stems have spear pulled not looking good =/ A bigger surprise my S.Causiarum has now spear pulled gave a lil hydrogen peroxide not really sweating it tho. Patric hybrids still not showing we even had a cold snap. T J 3 T J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said: An update after a lil warm weather. Caryota mitis clump 4 out of 5 stems have spear pulled not looking good =/ A bigger surprise my S.Causiarum has now spear pulled gave a lil hydrogen peroxide not really sweating it tho. Patric hybrids still not showing we even had a cold snap. T J How cold did you get? Very odd that causiarum pulled. The one at my folks saw low to mid teens and looks fine. The three at my house look decent but the juvenile leaves took a beating. Edited January 20 by RJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necturus Posted January 20 Report Share Posted January 20 My Causarium spear pulled in 2021 but looks good today. Same with my Bermudana. My Patrick hybrids nearly all spear pulled. The degree of leaf burn is variable. I had a big Bismarckia which survived 2021 only wrapped with frost cloth and a bucket of water beside it. It looked good after this freeze, but the leaves gradually changed colors, and the spear pulled today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OC2Texaspalmlvr Posted January 21 Author Report Share Posted January 21 16 hours ago, RJ said: How cold did you get? I believe 15 - 17 F depending on what part of the yard. My Causiarum had no overhead protection plus in a low spot in the front yard. Unfortunately this was its first winter in the ground also. Lots of things adding up to the spear pull. I had extra frost cloth which is all it would've needed I guess. Another thing was it was actively growing which I think it hurt alot of the palms in the area. All Washingtonia had 100% defoliation plus CIDP and date palms burned =/ @necturus what kind of protection did your Patric palms get ? All 4 of mine are still pristine so far. T J 1 T J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OC2Texaspalmlvr Posted February 14 Author Report Share Posted February 14 6 week update and more bad news from this damn cold snap. So my Patric hybrids aren't bullet proof after all. I really hadn't been paying much attention to them since after a month no signs of any harm. Well today I found my BxPJT has some bud rot =/ I gave a tug and no spear pull. BxLytoWedd did spear pull and im really hoping im not catching it too late =( I treated both with hydrogen peroxide and they both had pretty good fizzing. Both BJxS and BxMonty still un harmed so far. T J 3 T J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusH Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 After night and morning temperatures of 16,21,24,28F the winner in our yard is the Queen palm . A bucket and a thin bedsheet for protection. I uncovered it on the third day once temperatures were above freezing during the day . It completely defoliated but one frond grew about 6.5 inches already. Our Mexican fan palm almost completely defoliated as well . Was only covered in a bedsheet. Our pygmy palm survived as well with a bucket on it. California fan palm only suffered some leave damage to the older fronds. All our palms are less than a year old . They look ugly though nothing to show off. If the Queen struggles to recover it will be replaced by a mule palm. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight6tt Posted February 20 Report Share Posted February 20 On 12/27/2022 at 3:14 PM, Straight6tt said: Supposedly got down to 20f or lower for 3 straight nights (Biloxi Ms). I assume I'm a little warmer being one block from the beach but I did not protect my Bismarck at all. If he makes it through and it looks like he will than I am planting a few more. On 12/27/2022 at 6:14 PM, SeanK said: Usually, the damage is not seen until temps warm up. Wait until it hits 60° one day and then it will be obvious. I'm in the Atlanta metro area; bottomed out between 5° and 7°. Most of my stuff will be OK. Potted plants and a Serenoa are what I'm concerned with. I covered the saw palmetto to trap ground heat. In my neighborhood are a pair of Jelly palms. Serious leaf curling and a dry, silver look to the leaves. A few miles away a fellow planed three P.sylvestris. They're definitely NOT green today. Silver for now and I expect bronze after the weekend. Yep, it's completely damaged. No spear pull like I have seen with my phoenix robellini but it looks terrible. Chances the Bismarck makes it through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoatLockerGuns Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 Juvenile Washingtonia filifera 'Coachella' showing signs of recovery after experiencing a low of 17F in December 2022. New growth/spear coming out after partial defoliation and spear pull. This specimen was germinated in April of 2021 after the seeds were collected at Thousand Palms Oasis, Coachella Valley Preserve, California in March of 2021. It was planted in the ground in San Antonio, Texas (NW Bexar County to be precise) in May of 2022. The only protection provided during the freeze event was a plastic community pot placed on top. 4 Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination (Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time) DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed. "Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OC2Texaspalmlvr Posted February 22 Author Report Share Posted February 22 On 2/20/2023 at 2:41 PM, Straight6tt said: Yep, it's completely damaged. No spear pull like I have seen with my phoenix robellini but it looks terrible. Chances the Bismarck makes it through? Don't give up on a Bizzie there pretty bud hardy. Mark a line on your newest spear to check for growth. If nothing in a few weeks then a trunk cut would be your last hope. T J 1 T J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabal King Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 Interestingly enough, couple small Chamerops Humilis var. Cerifera (talking about one year old seedlings planted in fall) didn't spear pull, stayed green, and even some of my normal green forms spear pulled, are pushing 1"+ of growth already. I was ready to write ALL of those off. Everything else was as expected.. Sabals pulled through with a varying degree of leaf hardiness.. Subscribe to my YouTube here to follow along my Sabal obsession.... Quite possibly one of the biggest Sabal plantings in the US. Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/sabalking.texas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OC2Texaspalmlvr Posted March 13 Author Report Share Posted March 13 New Update So both BxPJT and BxLytoWedd which had spear pull are maikg a full recovery. Only took 1 dose of hydrogen peroxide and 1 dose of liquid fungicide. My BxMonty is the biggest winner as it seems to be the most bud hardy of the 3. It was the smallest of my Patric hybrids and had gotten the same protection as the others. Pics of recovery provided. My majesty palm is also making a recovery pushing new green but not out of the woods yet as old palm boots seem to be pretty soft and stinky. Multiple doses of copper fungicide , im hopeful. This is the 2nd majesty palm that has survived major cold snaps and are proving to be extremely bud hardy in the non trunking stage. Chamaedorea Seifrizii lost all large stocks but is coming back from the ground. Poor palm only got frost cloth as I ran out of moving blankets. Largercataractarum is about 90% recovery from spear pulls. The smaller one seems to be a total loss. Caryota mitis is a total loss so far still hoping that just maybe something comes back from the ground. Sabal Causiarum is making a full recovery still kinda surprised this spear pulled. T J 1 T J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OC2Texaspalmlvr Posted March 13 Author Report Share Posted March 13 4 T J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben OK Posted Thursday at 03:31 AM Report Share Posted Thursday at 03:31 AM I'll just add in some information about my trachycarpus here in Northeastern Oklahoma. Our ultimate low this winter was -2F (-19C), with over 72 hours straight below freezing. My trachycarpus were all covered during this event, but none were heated. My 2 largest specimens were waggies that had been in the ground for about 4.5 years. Both were wrapped in layers of frost cloth and then wrapped with tarps. Here are the results: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben OK Posted Thursday at 03:36 AM Report Share Posted Thursday at 03:36 AM The first pic was the larger of the two. They both survived -14F (-25.5C) in February 2021. The larger of the two was dead quickly after this year's deep freeze. The second pic is the smaller specimen, which had about 40 to 50cm of trunk. It never spear pulled, but it lost every bit of green on it. It wasn't until my smaller trachycarpus (supposed to be takils) started growing that I realized the smaller waggie may be dead. So I trunk cut and confirmed it was gone a couple of days ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben OK Posted Thursday at 04:10 AM Report Share Posted Thursday at 04:10 AM All three of my takils have survived. They were all pretty small, and none of them were very impressive even before the winter. I wrapped them in frost cloth and covered them with buckets. None of them spear pulled and two of the three started growing again last month. The third didn't appear to be growing even though the spear wouldn't pull. So I trunk cut it and found living tissue. Sure enough, two days later it is growing: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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