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Polar Vortex 2022...... who's ready?


Sabal King

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4 hours ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Yeah that's not the same one, the one in question you could click on any point and it would give you the estimated yearly low to the decimal, like for my house for example it said like 29.7 F so it was colored as 9b.  I used to have a shortcut saved for URL but it stopped working so long ago I might have deleted it. 

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Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

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On 12/28/2022 at 4:48 PM, GregVirginia7 said:

Well…arctic invasion is on its way out…the Chamaerops got damaged like never before in its 8 years in-ground…looks like all the fronds got fried, including the emerging ones but no spear pull on any of the trunks…had minimal protection…some 8-10f nights with sub freezing days but I guess, to keep it nice, I’ll need to more formally protect it in the future…everything else totally unprotected look great! The Trachy segments are flattening out…it’s an amazing palm. The Brazoria? no problems…the lowest frond has damage but it’s being naturally retired by the palm anyway. Needles could care less, amazing palms for NOVA as well the other Sabals McCurtain and minor…really happy to see these results…this was a good test for the unprotected…much more confident in their established resilience, especially the Trachy and the Brazoria!

The “Could Care Less Crowd”

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The “I Need Help” club

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but I should have known this would be the outcome, though I did wrap it up and lay a blanket of lights on the ground, just not enough…
 

Should I defoliate the Chamaerops now or wait till spring when I can make definite diagnoses on each frond. Either way, I won’t like looking at a mess for long and if some fronds are good and some dead I will want to let it start over again…want to make sure the crown gets protected for the next cold wave if it arrives…my thinking is, clean the whole thing up now with a haircut and ready it for the rest of winter…any opinions??

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1 hour ago, GregVirginia7 said:

Should I defoliate the Chamaerops now or wait till spring when I can make definite diagnoses on each frond. Either way, I won’t like looking at a mess for long and if some fronds are good and some dead I will want to let it start over again…want to make sure the crown gets protected for the next cold wave if it arrives…my thinking is, clean the whole thing up now with a haircut and ready it for the rest of winter…any opinions??

I’d wait to see what recovers… if it looks like another brutal cold snap is headed your way you can trim then to ease protection. 

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My chamaerops just spear pulled. I don’t have any luck with these. Last year I had two small 1 gallon chamaerops spear pull also. I tried the peroxide and that didn’t work. 
 

another reason for me to stick to sabals and pindos

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Edited by Jtee
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3 hours ago, RJ said:

I’d wait to see what recovers… if it looks like another brutal cold snap is headed your way you can trim then to ease protection. 

Agreed…as it warms up, the lower two trunks look much better…some of the lower fronds that were completely exposed are fried but the bulk of the two’s fronds are looking really good…the tallest third trunk’s fronds have the most damage…as you say, if another super cold event hits, I’ll have time to react…thank you 

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25 minutes ago, Jtee said:

My chamaerops just spear pulled. I don’t have any luck with these. Last year I had two small 1 gallon chamaerops spear pull also. I tried the peroxide and that didn’t work. 
 

another reason for me to stick to sabals and pindos

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I had lots of spear pulls on my chamaerops after the 2021 freeze and almost all recovered. Don’t lose hope!  

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42 minutes ago, Jtee said:

My chamaerops just spear pulled. I don’t have any luck with these. Last year I had two small 1 gallon chamaerops spear pull also. I tried the peroxide and that didn’t work. 
 

another reason for me to stick to sabals and pindos

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Spear pull does not mean death. Not even close. Many of the local chamaerops survived much colder weather in 2021 and came back. Don’t give up. 

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A couple of fat CIDPs in Shavano Park.  They have looked better, but still kickin'.

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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@Jtee My majesty palm spear pulled after Palmageddon and came roaring back. A couple Allagoptera did the same and no big deal. I only used peroxide to ease the recovery , have hope you never know. 

T J 

T J 

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3 hours ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

A couple of fat CIDPs in Shavano Park.  They have looked better, but still kickin'.

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I’m tired of CIDP getting toasted every year but these will be fine and will regrow their crowns during 2023

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9 hours ago, Jtee said:

My chamaerops just spear pulled. I don’t have any luck with these. Last year I had two small 1 gallon chamaerops spear pull also. I tried the peroxide and that didn’t work. 
 

another reason for me to stick to sabals and pindos

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Have you tried cerifera? Still chamaerops but cold hardier and 💙

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1 hour ago, N8ALLRIGHT said:

Have you tried cerifera? Still chamaerops but cold hardier and 💙

No I haven’t seen them around anywhere. And my only palms that have spear pulled….so far…. have been  my most cold hardy palms, my windmill and my chamaerops. 

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After 7F here in SC, the smaller trachycarpus spear pulled and all of the Butias. The small sabals did better than the hurricane cut transplant that had been growing for two years. It is still alive inside the crown. 

Los Angeles, CA and Myrtle Beach, SC.

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1 hour ago, Brad Mondel said:

After 7F here in SC, the smaller trachycarpus spear pulled and all of the Butias. The small sabals did better than the hurricane cut transplant that had been growing for two years. It is still alive inside the crown. 

Did your sabal’s burn? I’ve seen zero burned sabal’s or butia around here, but you were definitely colder. 

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The 9 day mark - 

The butia hybrid had spear pull and some nasty looking newly emerging leaflets, but those fronds that were already hardened off still appear green and in good color. 

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Sabal blackburniana spear looks questionable to me. It does not give, but as a preventative I have applied H2O2 and fungicide just in case:

 

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Chamaerops palms suffered a large amount of leaf burn that is becoming more evident as the days have heated up. We should be in the upper 60's - low 70's until Friday this coming week before a cool front moves back through. 

Wraping the crown in heat cable - while painful - appears to have worked. There are 2 smaller offshoots on the large female palm that have frond pull - I say that because the centermost spear is firm still ... I have NOT treated those and do not plan to. 

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Sidenote: The picture below is my male Chamaerops. The black petioles are mold courtesy of a clump of flowering bananas from last year. I have treated this, but it hasn't seemed to do any damage to the palm. 

 

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A close up of the smaller offshoots center:

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Lastly, the Butia has a minimal amount of leaf burn. It looks like just the tips were affected. Wrapped the base and center with cable and frost cloth just in case. 

 

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Little summary of the aftermath of -4f then -2f and 2 more nights and days well below freezing. 
Palmetto left, mccurtain right6046FF65-D66E-450F-9E8C-E7168BAC3A19.thumb.jpeg.4da618f7c42e73d1cfd29b2166014f74.jpegPalmettos took heavy damage, doesn’t look like I lost any though. 
Here’s another 4FF80EC7-37A2-4E98-AC82-0A6AC8586398.thumb.jpeg.05a080e1c640c5cafa13a3c4a14a48a4.jpegClose up of the leaves show the cold burned through the leaf so heavily it left them in some places looking like a fishnet stocking.F3D5F3E3-CC11-4628-BF85-34127ACFE3A9.thumb.jpeg.19f37da037607023082ca4bee8180223.jpegSame palm at the base showing green healthy tissue, center is firm, spear is solid17791B5E-535D-4A77-9B9D-B38F60CA46B0.thumb.jpeg.a7c1e9cfbf9d3a513e5fd41f7d8b5be4.jpegMexicana showing similar damageCD2D7E13-F2F3-4562-B401-EC3C28D3E107.thumb.jpeg.ac043b4887263dc079abcf4da0647d1d.jpegMuch further damage towards the base, I don’t have high hopes for this one. Still firm at this time though639BB31F-3921-4481-942A-A59475A9E77B.thumb.jpeg.f6878f533f5da7159bf6d334127cf6aa.jpegBirminghams never cease to amaze. Showed some leaf discoloring from an earlier in the season dip to 19f. Leaves came right back. Then during this cold event showing pretty much no damage. Similar look every winter, better color returns in the spring. 9016FAFE-0B7B-406B-B038-B20B456A6875.thumb.jpeg.d3500d24dd0deba29a77131f029fa152.jpegHere’s the underside looking well. DAAF4991-C125-4D81-A82F-13DBC4B774A1.thumb.jpeg.eb538ea503467664911b7148b3b3a259.jpegThe Birmingham above it in the last picture took the most damage I’ve seen last winter with some damage that went fairly far down some leaves. Nothing crazy though. This cold snap left the leaves mainly undamaged. It’s normal year to year for the oldest leaves to show damage during the winter. 90DC6FCD-EF2F-42DD-AE26-5964364D7CD5.thumb.jpeg.73b68c900e13f420de9d438e72fb8b07.jpegThe petioles however have held some discoloration after it’s warmed upC1A64E9E-0BAC-4B79-A34A-CBCB58DAB55A.thumb.jpeg.c4cf9a080e0045857104f88b82f7e9a5.jpegAll the needle palms in the ground no damage. Here’s the biggest one.5531D2F8-F9DE-4D2E-96F9-7BDA9E3A2D87.thumb.jpeg.9be7991824820ddab43c1f0bf6073b2e.jpegA few agaves turned to mush. One being that gentry jaws, the ovatifolia above in picture perfectly fine 78C768D7-3255-444B-8B5F-1AF9FF6CECA0.thumb.jpeg.d871896b8049342b1fcd7d9e036f8e26.jpeg2 Louisianas planted, no damage here’s one.927EDC27-790D-4BF5-83DF-9D25B07C439A.thumb.jpeg.3bc23a0f52d4f012eb528c90fc58fd54.jpegSome minors actually show some leaf damage, seems like they’re the ones that are in more of a shady spot. Here’s a smaller stature minor no damage5F0EF87C-C9EC-46BB-8A48-2E7576DCFA85.thumb.jpeg.b5197e132fb4fa61cc5de6a8912f2d44.jpegNotable mentions Blackburniana no damage under a bucket. A few small brazorias took damage under a bucket. A few show no damage. 12 Sabal minors all un protected lived, 2 bigger size but just planted last year show some bronzing, under shade. One windmill flat out died, 4 more don’t look perfect but survived all with protection but no heat. All yuccas show no damage. Rostrata, rigida, faxoniana, thompsoniana, elata, recurvafolia, gloriosa, filamentosa. Agave gentry jaws dead, 1 montana dead, 2 more no damage, 3 parryi truncata alive and firm, lechuguilla, havardiana, ovaticata, neomexicana all no damage. These all just had a black growers pot over them with a rock on top. No damage to any cactus, I have quite a few planted now maybe 25 different plants. I’m honestly amazed most of this survived this cold let alone looks as good as it does. Still potential for more bad weather here before winter is over. 

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This Butia sp. on the north side of San Antonio looks pretty decent (as far as Butia spp. go) post freeze (it's almost 80F today). Gave the spear a pull, and it was still solid. A lot of nice looking large (and unscathed) Sabal mexicana around this establishment as well.  Some of the European Fan Palms looked a little crispy though.

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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got home today and did a bit of investigating on the garden. We've been in the 70s the past few days so some of the damage is beginning to present itself. Here are a few observations

- all lytos look fine, spears intact 

Allagoptera Arenaria - spear in tact, little signs of burn

Phoenix Roebelenii x Dactylifera - spear intact, little to no burn

Livistona Decora - no signs of burn, spear intact 

Arenga engleri - little to no burn, spear intact

- Uruguay queen - spear pull

- Syagrus abreojos - some burn, spear intact

- Standard queen - some burn, spear intact

I'll post pics and more details tomorrow. 

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The only palm I'm showing with real damage was an unprotected Livistona chinensis.  Unfortunately the freezing temps turned to freezing rain and then rain.  We have not had any dry weather since.  I want to get out there an spray with copper fungicide just in case on some of my palms.

I've posted 3 videos of some of my plants on my Youtube if you're interested.  60 hours below freezing, minimum temp 19F and one day the high was only 21F.

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20 minutes ago, Chester B said:

The only palm I'm showing with real damage was an unprotected Livistona chinensis.  Unfortunately the freezing temps turned to freezing rain and then rain.  We have not had any dry weather since.  I want to get out there an spray with copper fungicide just in case on some of my palms.

I've posted 3 videos of some of my plants on my Youtube if you're interested.  60 hours below freezing, minimum temp 19F and one day the high was only 21F.

Those conditions, fungicide is essential…sprayed mine yesterday but rain most of the day today…over the last couple weeks went from sub freezing nights/days to sub freezing nights above freezing days…now to spring like days and nights, and tonight is very wet…not a good combination of conditions but it is what it is…have my umbrellas up over my semi fried Chamaerops and baby Trachy but tomorrow and Monday look fantastic here…sunny in the sixties…will get that fungicide out tomorrow and applied again since so much rain today…all the best with that crazy weather you are having…

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A very dead butia X:

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A high today of 73 proved to be all this one needed to collapse. 

Giant hole where the central spear and surrounding fronds were. 

Sprayed some copper in there just to say why not. 
I have absolutely 0 faith that that one will come out of this. 

 

 

 

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Photo dump time. This is a random assortment of how things look around my yard now that we've warmed up. I'm feeling pretty lazy so I'm not gonna detail everything but if you have questions ask away

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Can't catch a break. I have lived in the area just north of Lake Tenkiller for six years now. (Zone 7a) My winter lows for the six years have been -2F, -2F, 10F, -14F, and 8F. This recent polar vortex put me somewhere between 0F and -3F. We stayed below freezing for right at 72 he's and the coldest part of this mess was accompanied by 30 mph wind. Here is what zero degrees and a hard wind will do to palms:

Birmingham sabals; 

Neither were protected at all. The first sits at the SE corner of my home. The second is on the south side of the home and more sheltered from the wind.

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Palmetto; the most sheltered spot I have. Protected from wind on two sides with some overhead protection as well.  This was also not covered at all. 

 

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Needles; covered with tarps or buckets only (depending on size) only had spear pull on the main trunk of my largest needle. It was also my only palm that had its covering blow off during the storm. So maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

 

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Trachycarpus wagnerianus; probably my biggest disappointment. I wrapped them in blankets with a tarp tied over that. They look worse than they did after -14F. The first one spear pulled after having to be trunk cut last year. The second one has a solid spear, but it is completely fried.

 

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The only two palms I heated were a blue med fan and a Butia. I put a heated bucket of water between them and covered the bed with a tarp. The bucket stayed warm, but both spear pulled right away. Funny enough the only part green frond on the Butia is the one that was touching the bucket of warm water.

 

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1 minute ago, Ben OK said:

Trachycarpus wagnerianus; probably my biggest disappointment. I wrapped them in blankets with a tarp tied over that. They look worse than they did after -14F. The first one spear pulled after having to be trunk cut last year. The second one has a solid spear, but it is completely fried.

You took a few shots.  I'm hoping when I open up my palm coverings (Trachy/butia/mule) in spring I don't have any surprises.

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  18' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia odorata (1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -6F, -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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Fried palms, luckily no spear pull on any of these. But I don’t know if they will recover or not, I’m sure most will though. 

the last pic is from my protected robusta, my other robustas have some serious bronze fronds right now. They look horrible. 
 

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Various photos of my 8 Central Texas area Livistona Chinensas after I trimmed away completely brown fronds. All are between 10-14’ trunk height and planted Spring 2021. I think I’ll lose a couple, but most have some green healthy tissue. All spears are firm. Treated with copper fungicide today. 
 

Pindos, Sabal Minors, Trachycarpus Fortunei, Texas Sabal, and Florida Sabal all look great.

Sabal Riverside are showing some damage to the older fronds, but will be fine. 

Mule fronds are bronze, but I think it will pull through. I was able to get some lights around the heart and wrap it. 
 

My med fans have a few spear pulls, but that happened after the 2021 freeze and they pulled through fine. 

Any Livistona Chinensis I lose will be replaced with either Texas Sabals or Pindos. 
 

 

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When driving around yesterday I noticed severe damage to many bushes/trees including pines, leyland cypress, skip laurel, bamboo and evergreen bushes

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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  18' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia odorata (1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -6F, -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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1 hour ago, DAVEinMB said:

Looks like I'm going to lose all my cordylines...

They're very root hardy

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Washingtonia sp. palms at the RIM looking mighty crispy. The ones pictured here were replacements for other Washingtonia sp. palms that perished after February 2021.  There were a few Washingtonia filifera-looking palms at the RIM that survived February 2021; however, most did not pull through. If these do not survive, then maybe corporate management will wise up and mass plant some Sabal mexicana.

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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When is it typically safe to remove fried fronds? Wait till spring, or go ahead and clean them up?
First time this has happened to me here. haha 

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9 minutes ago, Dartolution said:

When is it typically safe to remove fried fronds? Wait till spring, or go ahead and clean them up?
First time this has happened to me here. haha 

Whenever its completely dark-brown is best. In your case, of heavily spoiled healthy palms, I am sure they'll be fine if you start cutting now.
;)  

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@Swolte Haha. Spoiled, but burned! The cham's have entered the crispy light brown sugar phase, while the sabal fronds have entered the white and crispy. 

I guess they need a few more minutes in the frier eh? hahaha 

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Another spear pull today, this time both of my saw palmettos. They got treated with copper fungicide today.

my robusta appears to be pushing up and fanning out, I guess the protection method I used worked really good for me. 
meanwhile the other palms that were protected don’t look as good. I think because I cut off the fronds it was a lot easier to keep protected. I should have just done the same with my Sylvester’s. 
 

today I also cleaned and cut off all of the brown fronds. They are basking in the sun and 70 degree temps today. 

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I noticed this today on one of my pindo’s, I don’t think it’s cold damage but maybe something infectious.  This pindo has always been an odd and slow grower compared to my other pindo’s. 
Anyone recognize what this might be? 
 

it kinda looks like the wilt that eventually spread throughout my mule palm. RIP mule palm. 

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Edited by Jtee
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