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Polar Vortex 2022...... who's ready?


Sabal King

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Houston is looking good, most everything that survived 2021 is pushing with much greater vigor than post-2021. Even the pure robusta will look good by the start of summer. 

Not too many replanted queen palms, but any new ones should push within the next 3-4 weeks if they are alive 

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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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Tall Washingtonia sp. attempting recovery in the Meyerland area of Houston, Texas.

20230218_152520.jpg

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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1 minute ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Tall Washingtonia sp. attempting recovery in the Meyerland area of Houston, Texas.

20230218_152520.jpg

Yeah those are the unkillable mutts 

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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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Only a handful of those Washingtonia hybrids at the Myerland plaza didn't survive 2021. Just a mile North or West on Bellaire Blvd and Bissonette St some decent groups of robusta/robusta heavy hybrids were completely wiped out. The two large surviving queen palms just North of Myerland plaza don't show any signs of moving yet.

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16 minutes ago, thyerr01 said:

The two large surviving queen palms just North of Myerland plaza don't show any signs of moving yet.

Well this is new, do you have any pre-December pics? 

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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Man who doesn’t like a polar vortex!?

Same time next year please, yeah? :rant:

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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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58 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Well this is new, do you have any pre-December pics? 

The Humble Queen shows no sign of growth either

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Lucas

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@XenonThis was taken on Dec 23rd, right before the freeze. The great looking one on the left had two clusters of fruit, one of which was ripe (visible in the pic). Neither were protected for the freeze, so I assume they weren't in 2021 either. The one on the right has struggled since 2021 and it wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't recover this time. 

queen-palm-fruit.jpg

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13 minutes ago, thyerr01 said:

@XenonThis was taken on Dec 23rd, right before the freeze. The great looking one on the left had two clusters of fruit, one of which was ripe (visible in the pic). Neither were protected for the freeze, so I assume they weren't in 2021 either. The one on the right has struggled since 2021 and it wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't recover this time. 

 

Oh the ones in Bellaire. I think we discussed this before. The unicorn 2021 survivor in Katy was not protected either; I'm waiting to see if it wakes up again. This video was taken just as the north wind was blowing in from that Dec blast.

 

 

 

 

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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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2 hours ago, amh said:

My Sabal uresana died at 11ishoF and a neighbors Sabal mexicana died after surviving '21.

My juvenile Sabal uresana died in this go around as well (low of 17F).  It was still a strap leaf though.  I think they are tougher with some trunk on them.  I new it was a gamble when I planted it during La Nina.

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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9 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

My juvenile Sabal uresana died in this go around as well (low of 17F).  It was still a strap leaf though.  I think they are tougher with some trunk on them.  I new it was a gamble when I planted it during La Nina.

Mine was a strap leaf too(tradewindsfruit sourced seed). It survived 14F to 15F last year, but never grew much. I'll keep the rest in pots until mature leaves form, and only plant during ENSO neutral conditions.

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Yes, I posted an earlier image in the Palmageddon mega thread. They are in Bellaire a few blocks North of Myerland plaza. Hopefully these handful of survivors can recover and flower; I'm pretty disappointed I couldn't get any seed this time around and the molecular biologist in me wants their sweet genetics.

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Our polar vortex in chicago was horrible,  we had negative temperatures i think in january, im not sure but here's what happened 

2023-02-18.png

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Polar Vortex 2022 2023...... who's ready?

 

Waitin' on a cold snap next week. Forecasters are saying low 20°F's maybe upper teens for a few nights. Well below average temps.

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12 hours ago, amh said:

My Sabal uresana died at 11ishoF and a neighbors Sabal mexicana died after surviving '21.

What size were they? Sorry to hear 🤕
 

Edit: saw on a later post they were still small 

Edited by RJ
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17 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Man who doesn’t like a polar vortex!?

Same time next year please, yeah? :rant:

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Ouch!

And yes I'll mark the calendar for next year. Ours was at Christmas this year. It's inevitably going to happen at some point during next winter.  I think Mother Nature is throwing darts at a wall with winter calendar days while blindfolded 

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18 hours ago, RJ said:

What size were they? Sorry to hear 🤕
 

Edit: saw on a later post they were still small 

My palms were small and Sabal uresana has been a very slow grower for me, but my potted specimens seem to have had a growth spurt this last year, so hopefully the trend will continue.

I don't know what form I have, but the leaves are very blue/silver when growing in the sun.

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On 2/18/2023 at 3:27 PM, GoatLockerGuns said:

Tall Washingtonia sp. attempting recovery in the Meyerland area of Houston, Texas.

20230218_152520.jpg

Those Washies in Meyerland Plaza are AMAZING!  I was so impressed with how almost all of them survived the 2021 event.  That shopping center reminds me so much of my days living in Southern California because of the large number of tall, slender palms that seem almost bulletproof.

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We just had the second highest snowfall total in one day at 10.8".  The all time record dates back to 1943.  The city is shut down, and now our strong Gorge winds are starting up and the temps are going to get cold the next couple of nights.  I'll be surprised if I don't lose power at some point.

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6 hours ago, Chester B said:

We just had the second highest snowfall total in one day at 10.8".  The all time record dates back to 1943.  The city is shut down, and now our strong Gorge winds are starting up and the temps are going to get cold the next couple of nights.  I'll be surprised if I don't lose power at some point.

Well!  Even the Banana Belt got snow last night, this morning, afternoon and again tonight.  Lowest Temps here close to ocean got to 33 maybe 32 when not looking.  However inland just a mile or two temps were close to 26 as the air came down the Chetco River.

IMG_2376.thumb.JPG.5d20215817ca52111c61d47648d4f954.JPG

Edited by Banana Belt
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5 hours ago, Banana Belt said:

Well!  Even the Banana Belt got snow last night, this morning, afternoon and again tonight. ...

I'll bet it's been some years since you've seen that. Crazy.

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7 hours ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

I'll bet it's been some years since you've seen that. Crazy.

Last two times we got snow like this was 1989 and 1992 I think.  1989 we got snow for a week about this same time with drifts that piled up 8 feet deep by the wind and I lost 3 Queens, a Washy, two CIDP's, several Yucca's and an orchard of various citrus.  Interesting enough however of all those subtropicals the one plant that suffered through and survived was an Owari Satsuma Mandarin on a trifoliate root stock.  It took temps down in the lower teens in 1989.

This time the lowest temp this week was 32 to 33 for several hours in the mornings.  The ocean is about 48 which is very cold and below normal, but even 48 degrees helps warm the air within half mile inland along the shore.  One to two miles away from the ocean temps on south coast are in the mid 20's.  Marine air is a big moderator of climate cold or warm water.

 

Edited by Banana Belt
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2 hours ago, Banana Belt said:

Last two times we got snow like this was 1989 and 1992 I think.  1989 we got snow for a week about this same time with drifts that piled up 8 feet deep by the wind and I lost 3 Queens, a Washy, two CIDP's, several Yucca's and an orchard of various citrus.  Interesting enough however of all those subtropicals the one plant that suffered through and survived was an Owari Satsuma Mandarin on a trifoliate root stock.  It took temps down in the lower teens in 1989.

This time the lowest temp this week was 32 to 33 for several hours in the mornings.  The ocean is about 48 which is very cold and below normal, but even 48 degrees helps warm the air within half mile inland along the shore.  One to two miles away from the ocean temps on south coast are in the mid 20's.  Marine air is a big moderator of climate cold or warm water.

 

Curious how much colder the ocean is below normal.  

The entire west coast has quite the cold happening.  Stuff happening not seen in 30-40 years(blizzards in LA county, etc.).  

Oregon sunset zone 17 rocks!

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To see snow in LA, San Fran and around San Diego is pretty crazy stuff.  I was speaking to a coworker as he was driving out of San Diego and he was driving on snowy roads.

Hopefully nothing like this for another 40 years or so.

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3 hours ago, Banana Belt said:

Last two times we got snow like this was 1989 and 1992 I think.  1989 we got snow for a week about this same time with drifts that piled up 8 feet deep by the wind ...

I was thru the area and down into Crescent City CA in March of '90, so early spring following that 1989 mess. I recall seeing damaged exotica then. Seems like this time around it wasn't cold enough to devastate anything more than soft tissue plants like banana, canna etc. Keep us posted on a follow up this spring.

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On 2/18/2023 at 10:49 PM, UK_Palms said:

Man who doesn’t like a polar vortex!?

Same time next year please, yeah? :rant:

71E7CC98-7D31-43FE-B120-7918C8A017CD.thumb.jpeg.2dede87f706c39913e0140d0a76820ce.jpeg

Sorry to see that @UK_Palms.  Seems like it's time to hasten your plans to get to the south coast, it's too frosty where you are!  I'm still holding out on my Washingtonia coming through, time will tell.  It looks ok given it's lost all the fronds, still green in the centre, but didn't get quite as cold as you I think (-6ºC/20ºF in early December).

Manchester, Lancashire, England

53.4ºN, 2.2ºW, 65m AMSL

Köppen climate Cfb | USDA hardiness zone 9a

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8 hours ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Seems like this time around it wasn't cold enough to devastate anything more than soft tissue plants like banana, canna etc

That is true.  Late February at 42 parallel next to the ocean is spring.  Fruit trees are starting to bloom, daffodils are in middle of blooming and the grass is starting to grow.  Today we had full sun and between 10 Am and 2 Pm the sun was really hot, melted most of the snow by afternoon.  Sun gets up decidedly earlier every morning and sets much later, plants know spring is starting.  I think we just had the last really cold spell until next winter. 

Another big low pressure system is brewing up in the north Pacific, but I doubt it will have the same cold air mass as the last.   March is next week and at this latitude the sun at mid day is really high in the sky, easy to get sun burned.   This last winter did not do much damage around these parts, a few Bird of Paradise (Steilitzia) show some damage and some sensitive citrus, but all the palms probably enjoyed the snow. 

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On 2/24/2023 at 7:31 AM, Banana Belt said:

 the one plant that suffered through and survived was an Owari Satsuma Mandarin on a trifoliate root stock.  It took temps down in the lower teens in 1989.

 

Here in Louisiana, Owari is well known to be the hardiest edible citrus.  Satsumas in general of all varieties are the cold hardiest standard citrus unless you get into yuzu and yuzu hybrids like Ichang lemon.  I’ve had large satsuma trees survive 15 years in north Louisiana, seeing single digits twice and last winter 10F with 24 hours of 15-25mph below freezing winds.  Most cold hardy palms are hardier here, though, with the exception of the Phoenix genus.

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Progress on a few plants that were damaged this winter. 

Update on a few palms that were damaged this winter. I made my cut where the trunk was still hard everything about the cut was soft and rotting.

Jubutia x Syagrus schizophylla - Phoenix roebelenii x P canariensis Butia paraguayensis 

B yata x jub

I had a 4 Jubutia x schizophylla and this is the last one (all others died) this one is barely hanging on. I may dig the P roebelenii x canariennsis it’s a no go here.

Low was 21d f 72hrs below freezing 

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Paul Gallop

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Looks like a terrible start to March with below average temperatures due to the polar vortex breaking down again. No freezing temperatures but it looks like below average temperatures until mid March now. This has been an awful winter. I can only hope the Jetstream after this starts pulling warmer air up from southern Europe.  The 12th of March is when it looks like the Jetstream will return back to normal.

Edited by Foxpalms
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On 2/26/2023 at 11:42 AM, Gallop said:

Progress on a few plants that were damaged this winter. 

Update on a few palms that were damaged this winter. I made my cut where the trunk was still hard everything about the cut was soft and rotting.

Jubutia x Syagrus schizophylla - Phoenix roebelenii x P canariensis Butia paraguayensis 

B yata x jub

I had a 4 Jubutia x schizophylla and this is the last one (all others died) this one is barely hanging on. I may dig the P roebelenii x canariennsis it’s a no go here.

Low was 21d f 72hrs below freezing 

 

 

 

ACFF33BA-9F9A-4D81-BA4A-179AD7B6C6BD.jpeg

Is this your yatay x jub? Did it just spear pull? Surprised 21* did it? 

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15 hours ago, RJ said:

Is this your yatay x jub? Did it just spear pull? Surprised 21* did it? 

Yes, that’s it. It was cold and wet. When the humidity is high or we get rain and have a multiple day freeze event, I tend to see more damage. The spear was damaged on this plant which probably froze from moisture i assume. The plants in garden that had ice form on leaves showed some damage. A smaller jub x butia in yard had spear damage but didn’t pull. A few dwarf butia I have also had moderate spear damage but didn’t pull. A 15gal Super mule had spear damage as well it was trying to flush when the freeze event was taking place. Wx is crazy here it can be in mid 70s for a week or two then a freeze event happens. Plants have a hard time figuring out when to grow.. 

Edited by Gallop
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Paul Gallop

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La Nina is weakening and ENSO Neutral conditions are expected this Spring through early Summer.  There is increasing probabilities of El Nino at longer forecasts.

https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/analysis_monitoring/lanina/enso_evolution-status-fcsts-web.pdf

About time!

Perhaps we can all end this "Polar Vortex" link soon.

Edited by Banana Belt
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On 3/1/2023 at 12:49 AM, Gallop said:

Yes, that’s it. It was cold and wet. When the humidity is high or we get rain and have a multiple day freeze event, I tend to see more damage. The spear was damaged on this plant which probably froze from moisture i assume. The plants in garden that had ice form on leaves showed some damage. A smaller jub x butia in yard had spear damage but didn’t pull. A few dwarf butia I have also had moderate spear damage but didn’t pull. A 15gal Super mule had spear damage as well it was trying to flush when the freeze event was taking place. Wx is crazy here it can be in mid 70s for a week or two then a freeze event happens. Plants have a hard time figuring out when to grow.. 

how did your yatay x mule do? I think you have one from the same batch I do. 

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