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Polar Vortex 2022...... who's ready?


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4 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

I wanted to say that. Europe isn't the US. People here aren't so adventurous and curious to try new things. The US also has a larger palm growing culture than Europe in general. Even in the best of climates around the Mediterranean Sea you only see few people trying things that are uncommon. Even Queens are not that common in the South of Europe at least if you compare it to other parts of the world. Europeans also tend to try things just once MAYBE twice and if it failed they say "Ok. It's impossible". Not going much further into why something failed. It's a generalsation but it is what it is...

Queens have been planted all over the cote d’azur in the last decade. You can find so many other hidden treasures from Toulon to Menton. Lots of plants in botanical Californian gardens where introduced by European gardeners.

Its not Spain with their mono plantings of washies and dactyliferas. Even Italy is pretty mono. 

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3 minutes ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

Yes think thats the same person, he has a lot of plant knowledge though.

I will wait for succes stories on queen palms in terms of real growth, more than 2 fronds. I know they will easily survive in parts of London. I have seen much better London queens than the coastal one above with the rather weak yellow fronds. Still they remain slow even in London after years. 

But lets not assume other people didnt know how to plant or take advantage of micro climates outside of London. Large parts of inland UK even lost their cordylines a couple of weeks ago. There are no large CIDP’s or washingtonias in most UK areas, not even with perfect drainage because its just too cold every 5 or so years. London is a plants world on its own where also theophrasti and dactylifera is possible. 

 

Mine grows more than 2 fronds a year. Either way I don't know many people trying things in the UK and the ones who do usually don't document things such as the soil it's growing in or a specific location. I also agree that here in central London it is very different to the rest of the UK since king palms, kentias, nikaus grow here, in fact my potted Bismarckia has been left outside and is completely fine which theres no way anywhere else it in the UK would be able to survive year round outside without declining since the rest of the UK is either too cool in the summer or too cold in the winter. 

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1 minute ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

Queens have been planted all over the cote d’azur in the last decade. You can find so many other hidden treasures from Toulon to Menton. Lots of plants in botanical Californian gardens where introduced by European gardeners.

Its not Spain with their mono plantings of washies and dactyliferas. Even Italy is pretty mono. 

Yes I know but NOW I mean palms are popping up everywhere even up here. This is a recent trend and it takes such a long time for a new species to become common or even considered worth trying. The palm obsession in Europe was crazy over a 100 years ago, where so many species got discovered and brought to Europe and the US and there are enthusiasts everywhere. I'm just saying that in general the average plant grower in Europe usually isn't trying things as much and taking risks either.

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5 minutes ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

Queens have been planted all over the cote d’azur in the last decade. You can find so many other hidden treasures from Toulon to Menton. Lots of plants in botanical Californian gardens where introduced by European gardeners.

Its not Spain with their mono plantings of washies and dactyliferas. Even Italy is pretty mono. 

I would agree with @Hortulanuseven despite some amazing European gardens that the US has a much better tropical gardening culture and trying rarer things.  San Francisco has a worse climate than Barcelona for example yet the majority of gardens there are much nicer and there's a lot more people interested in collecting palms there unlike Barcelona. The scilly isles are a zone 10b and should be covered in archontophoenix and howea forsteriana but other than the tresco abbey gardens there only a few palms planted by people. The reason I planted an archontophoenix cunninghamiana in Penzance was so when it hopefully grows people will be able to see they do well there an plant more. Since no one else there has tried one there.

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Sorry but not here. People around Amsterdam keep planting washingtonias, CIDP’s, agaves and other stuff that gets killed every few winters. 

The only plants that easily survive and thrive here are trachies, chamaerops and yucca rostratas. Dozens to hundreds of each grow here beautifully by people without expertise.

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3 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

I would agree with @Hortulanuseven despite some amazing European gardens that the US has a much better tropical gardening culture and trying rarer things.  San Francisco has a worse climate than Barcelona for example yet the majority of gardens there are much nicer and there's a lot more people interested in collecting palms there unlike Barcelona. The scilly isles are a zone 10b and should be covered in archontophoenix and howea forsteriana but other than the tresco abbey gardens there only a few palms planted by people. The reason I planted an archontophoenix cunninghamiana in Penzance was so when it hopefully grows people will be able to see they do well there an plant more. Since no one else there has tried one there.

Ah yes agreed, but the cote d’azur is different from Spain etc. I agree on the great gardens in California.

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I have two Syagrus in sandy  soil . They are 26 years old now, 6/7 metres tall both and doing fine, but they are slow.  For the last 20 years or so, I have seen them being planted in very short numbers, even tall ones. These later ones have been setting seeds for the last 10/15 years.

That means they can be grown easily, but they aren´t planted. The same happens with Howea forsteriana and even with Archontophoenix cunninghamiana. You can see 80 year old Howeas in La Coruña and a 60 year old Archonto in Santander. But they are not planted the way Canariensis or Trachys, and, lately, Washingtonias are.

Climate along the north coast of Spain is very mild. Summers don´t  even reach an average of 21ºC. Winters are mild too, but very rainy: 1.200 litres of rain throughout the year . Insolation is scarce. The west coast can reach 2.000 hours a year, but the centre and the east only see 1.700/1.800 hours a year, because it is very cloudy more than often.

Farther inland, cities such as Burgos, Valladolid, Salamanca, etc. can´t grow Canariensis. Vitoria,  Logroño, Zaragoza can, because they are not located at a high altitude as the previous ones (700/800 metres a.s.l.). Most of them are very sunny: 2.400/2,600 sunshine hours a year. All of them are cold in winter (8A/8B USDA zones). Some, maybe 9A.

By the way, I think subtropical climates are those which can grow subtropical plants. So Koepen´s is very subjective.

 

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6 minutes ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

Sorry but not here. People around Amsterdam keep planting washingtonias, CIDP’s, agaves and other stuff that gets killed every few winters. 

The only plants that easily survive and thrive here are trachies, chamaerops and yucca rostratas. Dozens to hundreds of each grow here beautifully by people without expertise.

At least for here hardly anyone in the mildest  parts of the UK tried archontophoenix for example and now in the last few years a few gardens and people have and have seen that they do really well. Europe has a higher population than Canada and the USA and I'd say there are more Canadians and Americans on palm talk than there are Europeans. The same is true for people trying things. The  UK has a funny climate where in a short distance in certain areas you can go from being able to push lots of exotics to not being able to. 

Edited by Foxpalms
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7 minutes ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

Sorry but not here. People around Amsterdam keep planting washingtonias, CIDP’s, agaves and other stuff that gets killed every few winters. 

The only plants that easily survive and thrive here are trachies, chamaerops and yucca rostratas. Dozens to hundreds of each grow here beautifully by people without expertise.

Well then you're lucky. But the Netherlands seem to be one of the nicest countries in Europe anyway. So it looks like even with palms you're very progressive LOL.

  

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4 minutes ago, Axel Amsterdam said:

Ah yes agreed, but the cote d’azur is different from Spain etc. I agree on the great gardens in California.

The cote d’azur is quite a wealthy place in Europe though so I'd imagine people there are more likely to be interested and willing to spend money to have a stand out beautiful looking garden than the majority of Europe.  Even then I'd say wealthier parts of California still have more interesting gardens.

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7 minutes ago, gurugu said:

I have two Syagrus in sandy  soil . They are 26 years old now, 6/7 metres tall both and doing fine, but they are slow.  For the last 20 years or so, I have seen them being planted in very short numbers, even tall ones. These later ones have been setting seeds for the last 10/15 years.

 

That means they can be grown easily, but they aren´t planted. The same happens with Howea forsteriana and even with Archontophoenix cunninghamiana. You can see 80 year old Howeas in La Coruña and a 60 year old Archonto in Santander. But they are not planted the way Canariensis or Trachys, and, lately, Washingtonias are.

 

Climate along the north coast of Spain is very mild. Summers don´t  even reach an average of 21ºC. Winters are mild too, but very rainy: 1.200 litres of rain throughout the year . Insolation is scarce. The west coast can reach 2.000 hours a year, but the centre and the east only see 1.700/1.800 hours a year, because it is very cloudy more than often.

 

Farther inland, cities such as Burgos, Valladolid, Salamanca, etc. can´t grow Canariensis. Vitoria,  Logroño, Zaragoza can, because they are not located at a high altitude as the previous ones (700/800 metres a.s.l.). Most of them are very sunny: 2.400/2,600 sunshine hours a year. All of them are cold in winter (8A/8B USDA zones). Some, maybe 9A.

 

By the way, I think subtropical climates are those which can grow subtropical plants. So Koepen´s is very subjective.

 

 

 

Thanks for your input. So I remembred correctly to see Queens around your area. And as you've also proven people tend to stick with the "standards" here way more than in the US. I don't know if it was a paritcularly cold year but in 2014 I stayed in Bilbao in summer and it was cool and rainy all the time. I knew that the climate there is Atlantic and wet but it was very different from what I've expected. It was like something we would have considered a bad summer here even 20 years ago.

  

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5 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

The cote d’azur is quite a wealthy place in Europe though so I'd imagine people there are more likely to be interested and willing to spend money to have a stand out beautiful looking garden than the majority of Europe.  Even then I'd say wealthier parts of California still have more interesting gardens.

Yep... like the people who brought all those palms to Europe more than a 100 years ago... That was my point. I was talking about the average person. I think you just have to be the first to show and then people see what works and they will finally pick up in a very slow pace.

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3 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

Thanks for your input. So I remembred correctly to see Queens around your area. And as you've also proven people tend to stick with the "standards" here way more than in the US. I don't know if it was a paritcularly cold year but in 2014 I stayed in Bilbao in summer and it was cool and rainy all the time. I knew that the climate there is Atlantic and wet but it was very different from what I've expected. It was like something we would have considered a bad summer here even 20 years ago.

Ditto. Agree with you. Three summers out of ten are just the same. Bilbao is warmer than the coast because it is farther inland (12 km away from the coast, and in a hole)

4 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

Yep... like the people who brought all those palms to Europe more than a 100 years ago... That was my point. I was talking about the average person. I think you just have to be the first to show and then people see what works and they will finally pick up in a very slow pace.

The little town the two famous Jubaea chilensis were planted 120 years ago, you only see Canariensis, Trachys (a lot) Chamaerops and, lately, some washingtonia. Not only there, but on the whole coast of Spain. How come? No explanation in my opinion.

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Just because the UK is transitioning (debatable) to a Mediterranean climate, doesn't mean queens will work in the future. I already live in a technically Mediterranean climate with more sunshine hours and solar radiation than probably anywhere in the UK, but no way in heck will I get a queen to thrive here... even in average winters. It been tried here before with 0 success, even in the mildest areas of Vancouver Island that are solid 9a/b (Tofino). Once I see multiple queens surviving AND thriving without being babied, I'll be a believer. Kind of like the Washies in London, I'm a believer that they are viable there.

My 2 cents.

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Zone 8b, Csb (Warm-summer Mediterranean climate). 1,940 annual sunshine hours 
Annual lows-> 19/20: -5.0C, 20/21: -5.5C, 21/22: -8.3C, 22/23: -9.4C, 23/24: 1.1C (so far!)

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7 minutes ago, gurugu said:

Ditto. Agree with you. Three summers out of ten are just the same. Bilbao is warmer than the coast because it is farther inland (12 km away from the coast, and in a hole)

The little town the two famous Jubaea chilensis were planted 120 years ago, you only see Canariensis, Trachys (a lot) Chamaerops and, lately, some washingtonia. Not only there, but on the whole coast of Spain. How come? No explanation in my opinion.

So even though the extreme winter lows are more favourable than here you just have the same palms we have. But I think the only palm that is actually commonly planted and planted by city's landscapers are Trachys. Just Trachys... Trachys have been around here for so many decades and only now any other palm species gets seen more often but also only in private gardens and also maybe because they are sold more often and cheaper in general stores. Not even Butias are really common here...

  

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These are the highs from 2022 for London Heathrow, it's also worth mentioning London Heathrow is obviously colder than here especially in the winter because of the urban heat island. 10 months were above average except January which was slightly below the 9c average for London Heathrow and December which was quite a lot below the average 9c high because of that extremely cold freeze. The year was a csb for London Heathrow whilst here it was a csa since July and August averaged above 22c because of the much higher night temperatures. The summers are only supposed to become hotter and hotter in the future so if imagine when looking back on this in 10-15 years a lot more queen palms will be planted all it takes are a few examples doing well. The August average should also be slightly higher since it's missing the data from one of the hotter days. 

Screenshot_20230202-230234461 (1).jpg

Edited by Foxpalms
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6 minutes ago, ShadyDan said:

Just because the UK is transitioning (debatable) to a Mediterranean climate, doesn't mean queens will work in the future. I already live in a technically Mediterranean climate with more sunshine hours and solar radiation than probably anywhere in the UK, but no way in heck will I get a queen to thrive here... even in average winters. It been tried here before with 0 success, even in the mildest areas of Vancouver Island that are solid 9a/b (Tofino). Once I see multiple queens surviving AND thriving without being babied, I'll be a believer. Kind of like the Washies in London, I'm a believer that they are viable there.

My 2 cents.

In my opinion, growing Syagrus has nothing to do with mediterranean climates. Mine is temperate /oceanic.

Lately Syagrus are being grown way up in Britanny (French Bretagne) which is at 48ºN, even cooler and more oceanic than here.

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6 minutes ago, ShadyDan said:

Just because the UK is transitioning (debatable) to a Mediterranean climate, doesn't mean queens will work in the future. I already live in a technically Mediterranean climate with more sunshine hours and solar radiation than probably anywhere in the UK, but no way in heck will I get a queen to thrive here... even in average winters. It been tried here before with 0 success, even in the mildest areas of Vancouver Island that are solid 9a/b (Tofino). Once I see multiple queens surviving AND thriving without being babied, I'll be a believer. Kind of like the Washies in London, I'm a believer that they are viable there.

My 2 cents.

Why do you think they don't do well? I mean the Queens. How about Washingtonia filifera? I've now seen and read several times that W. filifera is not doing well in most areas of the PNW. I live in a similar climate (generalising here) and I'm totally impressed by them.

  

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19 minutes ago, ShadyDan said:

Just because the UK is transitioning (debatable) to a Mediterranean climate, doesn't mean queens will work in the future. I already live in a technically Mediterranean climate with more sunshine hours and solar radiation than probably anywhere in the UK, but no way in heck will I get a queen to thrive here... even in average winters. It been tried here before with 0 success, even in the mildest areas of Vancouver Island that are solid 9a/b (Tofino). Once I see multiple queens surviving AND thriving without being babied, I'll be a believer. Kind of like the Washies in London, I'm a believer that they are viable there.

My 2 cents.

I have a 13ft syagrus romanzoffianana and a 6ft one in London and its not babied at all completed unprotected. The only thing it's babied with is lots of fertilizer and water in the summer. Never protected in the winter there is no need to. I think the issue for BC is the winters are too wet and cool.  Here's also a better photo of the one from lamorran gardens during the end of the summer. London is also warmer than mild parts of BC through every month of the year. Part of the reason why in central London they would survive compared to there is it's a zone 9b/10a and the fact Tofino has 6.4x more rainfall than here annually.

Screenshot_20230202-231521451 (1).jpg

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6 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

So even though the extreme winter lows are more favourable than here you just have the same palms we have. But I think the only palm that is actually commonly planted and planted by city's landscapers are Trachys. Just Trachys... Trachys have been around here for so many decades and only now any other palm species gets seen more often but also only in private gardens and also maybe because they are sold more often and cheaper in general stores. Not even Butias are really common here...

Out of 10 palms here, 5 are canariensis, 3 are trachys, 1 is chamaerops and half is a washingtonia and the other half is a butia.

Now, who can explain why after of 80/90 years of being able to pick Jubaea seeds, no one in the area has planted a single one?

The other Jubaea I know of is a 70/80 year old one in Castro Urdiales in a private garden.

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6 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

I have a 13ft syagrus romanzoffianana and a 6ft one in London and its not babied at all completed unprotected. The only thing it's babied with is lots of fertilizer and water in the summer. Never protected in the winter there no need to. I think the issue for BC is the winters are too wet and cool. Here's also a better photo of the one from lamorran gardens during the end of the summer. London is also warmer than mild parts of BC through every month of the year.

Screenshot_20230202-231521451 (1).jpg

This makes me jealous lol

Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 1 W. bifurcata, 4 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 4 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. canariensis, 1 BxJ, 1 BxJxBxS, 1 BxS, 3 P. roebelenii, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 H. verschaffeltii, 9 T. fortunei, 1 C. humilis, 2 C. macrocarpa, 1 L. chinensis, 1 R. excelsa, 1 S. bermudana, 1 L. nitida

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2 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

Why do you think they don't do well? I mean the Queens. How about Washingtonia filifera? I've now seen and read several times that W. filifera is not doing well in most areas of the PNW. I live in a similar climate (generalising here) and I'm totally impressed by them.

Regarding the queens, winters are just too long and cold here, just like anywhere else at this latitude. Queens are truly subtropical (more so than Washies, Butias, and other palms that work at this latitude) and need a long growing season with heat and sunshine.

As for the Washies, probably just cause our winters are so damn wet here! Much more so than Western Europe. Something our drier summers cant make up for.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

 London is also warmer than mild parts of BC through every month of the year.

 

Not true. My summers are warmer, drier, and MUCH sunnier than London. Average high in August for Nanaimo is 24.3C Vs 23.4C for London. Also, Victoria is comparable (if not a little warmer) throughout the winter months than London. Its great you have a nice little queen there, but like I said I will believe they are viable in the UK once I see more. I have a nice Butia in my garden that I don't protect, but I certainly wouldn't call Butia consistently hardy to Vancouver Island.

Zone 8b, Csb (Warm-summer Mediterranean climate). 1,940 annual sunshine hours 
Annual lows-> 19/20: -5.0C, 20/21: -5.5C, 21/22: -8.3C, 22/23: -9.4C, 23/24: 1.1C (so far!)

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9 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

I have a 13ft syagrus romanzoffianana and a 6ft one in London and its not babied at all completed unprotected. The only thing it's babied with is lots of fertilizer and water in the summer. Never protected in the winter there no need to. I think the issue for BC is the winters are too wet and cool. Here's also a better photo of the one from lamorran gardens during the end of the summer. London is also warmer than mild parts of BC through every month of the year.

Screenshot_20230202-231521451 (1).jpg

None of the very few Syagrus I know of around here, is taken care of, and yhey do just fine.

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21 minutes ago, ShadyDan said:

Just because the UK is transitioning (debatable) to a Mediterranean climate, doesn't mean queens will work in the future. I already live in a technically Mediterranean climate with more sunshine hours and solar radiation than probably anywhere in the UK, but no way in heck will I get a queen to thrive here... even in average winters. It been tried here before with 0 success, even in the mildest areas of Vancouver Island that are solid 9a/b (Tofino). Once I see multiple queens surviving AND thriving without being babied, I'll be a believer. Kind of like the Washies in London, I'm a believer that they are viable there.

My 2 cents.

Queens grow here in Brookings or Southern Oregon Coast, so I wonder just how much further north would they grow?  Coos Bay, maybe but Queen Palms don't like temperatures in the 20's even extended periods of the high 20's like 28 F.  In any case the Queen Palms in Brookings which are 50 to 60 years old look like 20 year old Queen's of Central to Southern California.  Same as the Fan Palms.

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Just now, gurugu said:

Out of 10 palms here, 5 are canariensis, 3 are trachys, 1 is chamaerops and half is a washingtonia and the other half is a butia.

Now, who can explain why after of 80/90 years of being able to pick Jubaea seeds, no one in the area has planted a single one?

The other Jubaea I know of is a 70/80 year old one in Castro Urdiales in a private garden.

That's what I mean I have seen this all around the Mediterranean. Italy has many beautiful gardens but only plants that have been common there for a 100 years. They are also increasingly planting Washingtonias now. The had them before but they are becoming more common. When I think of Spain I usually think about the majority of palms being P. dactylifera. At least in the dry and Mediterranean areas.

  

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3 minutes ago, JLM said:

This makes me jealous lol

The Florida syagrus romanzoffianana growth in summer is definitely something I'm jealous of, though it's not as slow here from my experience as some have suggested! Might also be interested in seeing an archontophoenix cunninghamiana in London, this photo was taken in early fall and since over the winter the new frond you see in that photo has fully grown and it's started pushing out a new frond. Archontophoenix cunninghamiana continue growing during the winter here whilst syagrus go dormant. 

Screenshot_20230202-233052228 (1).jpg

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48 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

Thanks for your input. So I remembred correctly to see Queens around your area. And as you've also proven people tend to stick with the "standards" here way more than in the US. I don't know if it was a paritcularly cold year but in 2014 I stayed in Bilbao in summer and it was cool and rainy all the time. I knew that the climate there is Atlantic and wet but it was very different from what I've expected. It was like something we would have considered a bad summer here even 20 years ago.

Do you mean these ones?

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2748692,-2.9616986,3a,40.4y,163.35h,102.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSJ6tyOv1KLHfkhwnDKWp_w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

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6 minutes ago, ShadyDan said:

Regarding the queens, winters are just too long and cold here, just like anywhere else at this latitude. Queens are truly subtropical (more so than Washies, Butias, and other palms that work at this latitude) and need a long growing season with heat and sunshine.

As for the Washies, probably just cause our winters are so damn wet here! Much more so than Western Europe. Something our drier summers cant make up for.

 

 

Not true. My summers are warmer, drier, and MUCH sunnier than London. Average high in August for Nanaimo is 24.3C Vs 23.4C for London. Also, Victoria is comparable (if not a little warmer) throughout the winter months than London. Its great you have a nice little queen there, but like I said I will believe they are viable in the UK once I see more. I have a nice Butia in my garden that I don't protect, but I certainly wouldn't call Butia consistently hardy to Vancouver Island.

I would have thought that your winters are as wet or even less wet compared to ours. Maybe I'm just lucky because of the urbanisation but there are places like Seattle and Vancouver that are also large urbanised areas. But you know your area better than me.

  

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Just now, gurugu said:

Yes I've seen that! But there were also others but I'm not sure if it was in Bilbao. My memory is mixing things up. I remember seeing like 3? in a row and they were quite big but not as big as this one.

  

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3 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

Yes I've seen that! But there were also others but I'm not sure if it was in Bilbao. My memory is mixing things up. I remember seeing like 3? in a row and they were quite big but not as big as this one.

Then, I must have missed them.

Did you happen to see these ones in Gijón?

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.541987,-5.6947617,3a,75y,96.38h,93.11t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1styauUMtuZKXIlJLEA9-SQA!2e0!5s20180701T000000!7i13312!8i6656

Well. Have a look at them nowadays. They are gone!

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.5419826,-5.6947217,3a,75y,96.38h,93.11t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sQ5ULHpJlKZjHFZ1aqzTHww!2e0!5s20210601T000000!7i16384!8i8192

They were planted very tall (over 6 metres of clear trunk) in the early 2000s

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4 minutes ago, Banana Belt said:

Queens grow here in Brookings or Southern Oregon Coast, so I wonder just how much further north would they grow?  Coos Bay, maybe but Queen Palms don't like temperatures in the 20's even extended periods of the high 20's like 28 F.  In any case the Queen Palms in Brookings which are 50 to 60 years old look like 20 year old Queen's of Central to Southern California.  Same as the Fan Palms.

We all know Brookings is a special little palm utopia haha. I doubt you would see them much further north. Even our best bet Tofino, with all its jumbo Cordylines, wouldn't have a shot.

 

10 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

I would have thought that your winters are as wet or even less wet compared to ours. Maybe I'm just lucky because of the urbanisation but there are places like Seattle and Vancouver that are also large urbanised areas. But you know your area better than me.

Yea its just one of those funny things... in theory I think we should be able to grow Washies in the milder areas here, but they just don't work for whatever reason... long term at least. There was a decent sized one in Seattle I knew of but I think it croaked with our two nasty winters we have had lately.

Zone 8b, Csb (Warm-summer Mediterranean climate). 1,940 annual sunshine hours 
Annual lows-> 19/20: -5.0C, 20/21: -5.5C, 21/22: -8.3C, 22/23: -9.4C, 23/24: 1.1C (so far!)

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2 minutes ago, gurugu said:

Then, I must have missed them.

Did you happen to see these ones in Gijón?

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.541987,-5.6947617,3a,75y,96.38h,93.11t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1styauUMtuZKXIlJLEA9-SQA!2e0!5s20180701T000000!7i13312!8i6656

Well. Have a look at them nowadays. They are gone!

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.5419826,-5.6947217,3a,75y,96.38h,93.11t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sQ5ULHpJlKZjHFZ1aqzTHww!2e0!5s20210601T000000!7i16384!8i8192

They were planted very tall (over 6 metres of clear trunk) in the early 2000s

Maybe. Nope OMG but they were amazing! I haven't been ever further West than Santander. The ones I've seen have been somewhere between the South West of France and Bilbao I think but I just can't remember it's 9 years ago. The ones in Gijon have died? It looks like they have been taken out for development, right?

  

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2 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

Maybe. Nope OMG but they were amazing! I haven't been ever further West than Santander. The ones I've seen have been somewhere between the South West of France and Bilbao I think but I just can't remember it's 9 years ago. The ones in Gijon have died? It looks like they have been taken out for development, right?

That´s right. Refurbishing the area. Where are they now? Who knows!

The same happened with these Kentias.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4722199,-3.7830897,3a,26.3y,154.1h,92.98t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s9MXuoIJDLpzbmgjYgaS42w!2e0!5s20090901T000000!7i13312!8i6656

Nowadays

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4722313,-3.7831225,3a,39.9y,150.18h,90.95t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sflLF0n21CHgFnlpAN0TDnA!2e0!5s20221001T000000!7i16384!8i8192

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The average summer high in  July and August is 25c/77f in the last 10 years. The info on the internet for London is complete nonsense and half of them don't even state where they record their data. I've checked most websites and compared them to loads of weather station averages and they are just way off. Victoria is cooler in the winter than here, this winter they would probably be similar since this has been one of the worst winters but on an average winter central London is around 1-2c warmer. Here's also last year's summer temperatures in central London compared to Victoria BC. I personally think queen's are hardy here if planted in well draining soil. All I'm saying is let's look back at this in 10-15 years and we will see. No where in BC has milder winters than central London but the main reason I think queen palms would fail there is down to the fact you have much colder winter spells and loads of rain in the winter.

Screenshot_20230202-235639633 (1).jpg

Screenshot_20230202-235554492 (1).jpg

Edited by Foxpalms
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4 minutes ago, ShadyDan said:

We all know Brookings is a special little palm utopia haha. I doubt you would see them much further north. Even our best bet Tofino, with all its jumbo Cordylines, wouldn't have a shot.

 

Yea its just one of those funny things... in theory I think we should be able to grow Washies in the milder areas here, but they just don't work for whatever reason... long term at least. There was a decent sized one in Seattle I knew of but I think it croaked with our two nasty winters we have had lately.

Huh that's weird. I mean some Washies getting taken out every 10-15 years I can imagine but especially filifera should have a long term chance. There are also so many coastal microclimates and UHI next to the sea. But that's why I always experiment myself. Things that should do well in your area can be completely disappointing and some things you shouldn't be able to grow might work for you better than for others.

  

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30 minutes ago, Banana Belt said:

Queens grow here in Brookings or Southern Oregon Coast, so I wonder just how much further north would they grow?  Coos Bay, maybe but Queen Palms don't like temperatures in the 20's even extended periods of the high 20's like 28 F.  In any case the Queen Palms in Brookings which are 50 to 60 years old look like 20 year old Queen's of Central to Southern California.  Same as the Fan Palms.

Where are those famous Archontophoenix in Brookings? Still alive? I saw a picture long ago, and they were just awesome.

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2 minutes ago, gurugu said:

Omg can't even look at it. I hope they didn't just chop them down. 😭 They once demolished a bridge here and under it there was a row of tall Trachies that disappeard with the bridge. I mean they were just Trachys but they were pretty old and I thought they chopped them down. Luckily sometime later they popped up on another city planting.

  

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3 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

Omg can't even look at it. I hope they didn't just chop them down. 😭 They once demolished a bridge here and under it there was a row of tall Trachies that disappeard with the bridge. I mean they were just Trachys but they were pretty old and I thought they chopped them down. Luckily sometime later they popped up on another city planting.

Two more.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4802,-3.7884824,3a,15y,307.5h,93.16t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1st5DcxvW4nKwAPK9gONDoaw!2e0!5s20090901T000000!7i13312!8i6656

Right now

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4801818,-3.7884996,3a,40.9y,307.44h,90.14t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s4qxxrdWpXFLcF9E0Y0Hiag!2e0!5s20221001T000000!7i16384!8i8192

These were the first Kentias I saw back in the late 90s. A beauty. 8 metres tall and with seeds. There were three of them.

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1 minute ago, Foxpalms said:

The average summer high July and August is 25c/77f in the last 10 years. The info on the internet for London is complete nonsense and half of them don't even state where they record their data. I've checked most websites and compared them to loads of weather station averages and they are just way off. Victoria is cooler in the winter than here, this winter they would probably be similar since this has been one of the worst winters but on an average winter central London is around 1-2c warmer. Here's also last year's summer temperatures in central London compared to Victoria BC. I personally think queen's are hardy here if planted in well draining soil. All I'm saying is let's look back at this in 10-15 years and we will see. 

 

You are nitpicking data. If you look at the official weather data from official weather stations (which I did), my point hold true, there are warmer parts of Vancouver Island in the summer AND winter than London. The source I used for London is Greenwich Park (Met office) and for Nanaimo Airport / University of Victoria was Environment Canada. 2 pretty legit sources of data if you ask me. You also can't just post 1 years worth of data and say that London is warmer. Go back to 2021 during our heat dome and you will see our averages our probably much higher than yours (parts of the Island officially hit 43C), but that really doesn't mater as its just one summers worth of data.

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Zone 8b, Csb (Warm-summer Mediterranean climate). 1,940 annual sunshine hours 
Annual lows-> 19/20: -5.0C, 20/21: -5.5C, 21/22: -8.3C, 22/23: -9.4C, 23/24: 1.1C (so far!)

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