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Polar Vortex 2022...... who's ready?


Sabal King

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4 hours ago, Sabal King said:

So far absolutely nothing has perished, but I'm waiting on my rescue Butia to push out a new spear.  I've done some daconil, and peroxide and had to deal with this happening last spring too after the ice.  It eventually pushed out a new spear, and doubled in size.  I can certainly feel something down there, and none of the petioles are pulling.  Hoping that one pulls through, so I can breathe a collective sigh of relief.

I have been watering ALL of my sabals heavily as we are getting beautiful sun, and 70 to now 82F today and it'll be nice winter weather through the end of the month.  I can see tons of growth going on, so make sure you water everything.  They want to grow!

Nothing has perished either even my Phoenix Roebelenii survived our hard freeze it was covered with some leaves and a bucket only but the fronds have severe damage. So far no spear pull . Washingtonia filifera has minor leaf damage on existing fronds but the new growth looks healthy.  Wash robusta is recovering fast following my Syagrus Romanzoffiana.  I expected fatal damage to my Pygmy and Queen palm but they're doing well.  Removed all dead fronds and water them regularly.  

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Just now, MarcusH said:

Nothing has perished either even my Phoenix Roebelenii survived our hard freeze it was covered with some leaves and a bucket only but the fronds have severe damage. So far no spear pull . Washingtonia filifera has minor leaf damage on existing fronds but the new growth looks healthy.  Wash robusta is recovering fast following my Syagrus Romanzoffiana.  I expected fatal damage to my Pygmy and Queen palm but they're doing well.  Removed all dead fronds and water them regularly.  

 

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2 more spear pull announcements-

my CIDP and one of my odd growing Pindos have spear pull. 
 

the spear pull list-

 

1 tiny windmill palm

1 (possibly sick) pindo

1 CIDP

2 Saw palmettos

1 European fan palm

 

The saw palmettos look like they are declining, will probably die. I thought they were more hardy to this area 

 

Edited by Jtee
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1 hour ago, Jtee said:

2 more spear pull announcements-

my CIDP and one of my odd growing Pindos have spear pull. 
 

the spear pull list-

 

1 tiny windmill palm

1 (possibly sick) pindo

1 CIDP

2 Saw palmettos

1 European fan palm

 

The saw palmettos look like they are declining, will probably die. I thought they were more hardy to this area 

 

How cold did you get?

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46 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

How cold did you get?

I believe it was 13, 16 and 18. Two of those days it never got above freezing 

Edited by Jtee
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Welp, here's the disaster that happened at my house in Myrtle Beach, SC... Overall not too bad, but definitely some damage. My 2 Queens were heavily protected with a heat light near their spear. Unfortunately, I didnt put the heat source near the Queen's spear by my front door, so the very base of the spear got slightly crispy but the spear is still very solid. My other Queen on the side of the house looks really good as well and has a solid spear. On the north side of my house my Cyperus alternifolius got absolutely destroyed. I suspect they'll come back strong this spring though. One is already pushing out some new growth. My Windmill Palm took it like it was nothing as you can see. My Sago surprised me a bit, I thought it'd be fine but it is all crispy now. I also suspect it will recover though. My spike plants are discolored a tad but overall are fine. The Mahonia also took it like it was nothing. Both of my Sylvesters have slight damage. I have no clue what is going on the the tall one though. It has been leaning like that ever since I got it. I suspect it is some sort of deficiency. If any of you have any ideas on what is wrong with it let me know. My cycad looks horrible, I really never thought it'd do good since it is too wet here. My Robusta took a huge hit. I covered it but didnt put any heat in there so I think that it just made it worse. It still has a very solid spear and has green at the base of it. I am not exactly sure if I should cut off the old dead fronds or leave then on until spring. Hopefully this spring will make all my plants look good again...

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On 1/6/2023 at 12:48 AM, amh said:

My coldest temperature of this season was 11oF(possibly colder). My in ground Sabal minors had no damage, of course, but my lone in ground strap leaf Sabal uresana was severely burned, but should survive.

My Sabal uresana is now showing complete burn, but no spear pull. I'll have to wait till spring to see if it has survived.

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Here is the damage to my larger Trachy after -1F and 30mph winds.  These only had one layer of frost cloth and it shows!  I think if the wind was calm as it usually is during a cold they would be much better.   All alive and spears fine but this is my first cut back to spears on a trachy so I'm bummed.  All my smaller ones appear much better

 

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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  18' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia odorata (1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -6F, -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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Some middle spear damage to one of my fav pindo’s. No spear pull though,

while out in the yard today I found a different pindo with spear pull. That’s the second one now. While they looked great after the cold blast, more damage is starting to show. 

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So far winter isn't over yet and I really hope we don't expect another artic blast where we're back to square one .  So far all palms are recovering in our yard crossing my fingers that our future cold snaps aren't as severe . I guess that's what you get for zone pushing palms ,it has to feel like Floridians watching the weather app during hurricane season in hope that storm isn't going to hit their home.  I'm too old to worry about things lol.  

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16 hours ago, MarcusH said:

So far winter isn't over yet and I really hope we don't expect another artic blast where we're back to square one .  So far all palms are recovering in our yard crossing my fingers that our future cold snaps aren't as severe . I guess that's what you get for zone pushing palms ,it has to feel like Floridians watching the weather app during hurricane season in hope that storm isn't going to hit their home.  I'm too old to worry about things lol.  

There may be a couple more arctic fronts but they won’t be as severe as the Dec freeze. It may dip into the 20s once or twice between now and March, but the chances of getting as cold as Dec twice in the same season are very low. Especially as every day passes and we get closer and closer to March. 

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1 hour ago, NBTX11 said:

There may be a couple more arctic fronts but they won’t be as severe as the Dec freeze. It may dip into the 20s once or twice between now and March, but the chances of getting as cold as Dec twice in the same season are very low. Especially as every day passes and we get closer and closer to March. 

As long as we stay above 25F I'm fine . If it's for a few hours I'm not worried just not like another 5 day cold event.  

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17 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

As long as we stay above 25F I'm fine . If it's for a few hours I'm not worried just not like another 5 day cold event.  

I’ve been here since 2004 and I’ve never seen more than one of these super cold events in one winter. Watch now that I say that it will happen. But seriously, the likelihood of another freeze like Dec in the same winter are low. Chances are good we’ll stay above 25, especially as we get closer and closer to March 1st. 

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On 1/18/2023 at 4:05 PM, MarcusH said:

So far winter isn't over yet and I really hope we don't expect another artic blast where we're back to square one .  So far all palms are recovering in our yard crossing my fingers that our future cold snaps aren't as severe . I guess that's what you get for zone pushing palms ,it has to feel like Floridians watching the weather app during hurricane season in hope that storm isn't going to hit their home.  I'm too old to worry about things lol.  

Winter isn't over till March and will return towards the end of this month. February is usually the coldest month, but I've seen the teens on the northwest side in March.

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December is our coldest month with the last two weeks of Dec and first two of Jan where we normally see our coldest weather.  Right on schedule this year.   Less than 4 weeks to go and I'll be in the clear.  

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On 1/18/2023 at 2:20 PM, Jtee said:

Two fried Livestonia’s in Dothan Al today.

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Don't livistonea come back from the ground at least in zone 8 and even tall ones survive freezes? 

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2 hours ago, zone 14a said:

Don't livistonea come back from the ground at least in zone 8 and even tall ones survive freezes? 

Yeah I’ve heard that they come back, I’ve heard of people up north in Virginia say that they will come back like an annual. I don’t have much experience with them myself to speak on. 
 

as far as the larger palms in Dothan I’m not sure, they’ve obviously been there for a quite a while but I’m not sure what kind of temperatures they’ve seen in the past. I hope they bounce back just fine. 
maybe someone with more experience with Livestonia’s can chime in. 

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14 hours ago, amh said:

Winter isn't over till March and will return towards the end of this month. February is usually the coldest month, but I've seen the teens on the northwest side in March.

After February is over chances of getting another freeze are low where I live on the NE side near LP 410. I'm not saying it can't happen but the overall trend is clear winters get milder and shorter they begin later and end earlier due to climate change .  

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21 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

I’ve been here since 2004 and I’ve never seen more than one of these super cold events in one winter. Watch now that I say that it will happen. But seriously, the likelihood of another freeze like Dec in the same winter are low. Chances are good we’ll stay above 25, especially as we get closer and closer to March 1st. 

I agree to that I looked at past climate data for this area and "usually " freezes only occur a very few times a year and mostly aren't under 25F . We shouldn't get an artic blast every year once La Nina is gone I expect a more moderate and wet climate for a few years. Climate is so complex it's hard to make predictions.  

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16 hours ago, amh said:

Winter isn't over till March and will return towards the end of this month. February is usually the coldest month, but I've seen the teens on the northwest side in March.

February is not the coldest month, January is. Feb is statistically significantly warmer than both Jan and Dec on average with high temperatures about 3-4 warmer than both Dec and Jan. 
 

There has never been a super cold event like Feb 2021 or probably Dec 22 in late Feb or March in San Antonio history. All of the super cold events have occurred between Dec through mid Feb. 

The all time record low for San Antonio in March is 17 degrees in weather records going back over 130 years. I realize the hill country can get significantly colder. It has gotten below 20 3 times in March since 1900. 17 degrees in 1917 and 19 degrees in 1980 and 2002. 
 

There is statistically no chance of a super cold event in SA after the last week of Feb. 

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17 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

February is not the coldest month, January is. Feb is statistically significantly warmer than both Jan and Dec on average with high temperatures about 3-4 warmer than both Dec and Jan. 
 

There has never been a super cold event like Feb 2021 or probably Dec 22 in late Feb or March in San Antonio history. All of the super cold events have occurred between Dec through mid Feb. 

The all time record low for San Antonio in March is 19 degrees in weather records going back over 100 years. I realize the hill country can get significantly colder. 

Yes Jan thru the middle of Feb is the most dangerous temp time here with Jan being the worst.  I have a spreadsheet on temps I am looking at right now.  Odds of even single digit temps for me going forward is getting pretty low approx. 15%

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  18' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia odorata (1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -6F, -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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This winter cannot end soon enough for me. It’s the worst one I have experienced here since I started growing palms and exotics. Also to the people saying that winter is almost done and that they will be in the clear soon… well don’t go counting your eggs too soon. There are signs of a sudden stratospheric warming event in the next 7-10 days, which will displace a lot of cold arctic air possibly into Europe or North America, or both even. This will likely occur 2nd week of February, almost 2 years to the date that the 2021 Texas freeze occurred. A split won’t necessarily happen from the SSW, but it is a genuine risk at this stage. The latest GFS runs have an SSW with extreme cold potential in eastern USA. It could come anywhere at this stage however.

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Just be warned and pray that it doesn’t descend over your location. One scenario I saw last night had lows down to -5F in Dallas and 5F in Houston with a direct hit from the displaced vortex. That likely won’t happen, but it is going to be touch and go for a lot of us over the next few weeks ok both sides of the Atlantic. Hopefully there is no SSW event and no displacement of the vortex. If there is, at least some of us are going to pay a big price. Just saying. As it stands, such an event is most likely to affect the east coast of North America however.

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Dry-summer Oceanic / Warm summer Med (Csb) - 9a

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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I’m not counting my eggs yet I’m just saying statistically all of the major Texas freezes have occurred from Dec - mid Feb In history. Of course there is a first time for everything. 
 

If we get to 5 degrees, I may as well give up on palms. I’m tired of freezes. 

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I don't pay much attention to predictions weeks in the future.  I make decisions based on my history.  it's all kind of a common sense gamble.  For instance many large Trachycarpus have been uncovered because risk of below 10F is pretty. low.  if that changes than I have to recover, no biggie.

Here's how my temps pan out.  Temps in F.  I keep a chart of lows because that's what I'm most interested in.

Green = good / orange = danger some palms / red = under 15F.  You can see most of the red is in January

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Edited by Allen
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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  18' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia odorata (1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -6F, -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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14 hours ago, Jtee said:

Yeah I’ve heard that they come back, I’ve heard of people up north in Virginia say that they will come back like an annual.

Livistona chinensis only.  

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The Weather Channel is predicting a rather above average temperature winter for the southern part of the U.S. . I doubt it gets down to 5F(no windshield temp) in Houston or anywhere else in the SoCen Texas region .  It does get cold but I don't expect another severe freezing especially not colder than the previous winter storm.  There's still warm air from the Gulf that keeps the southern states warmer than the rest of the country.  Just like NBTX11 said there's a first time for everything but there's a reason why we don't see actual temperatures like that anywhere from San Antonio to Miami . 

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4 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

I’m not counting my eggs yet I’m just saying statistically all of the major Texas freezes have occurred from Dec - mid Feb In history. Of course there is a first time for everything. 
 

If we get to 5 degrees, I may as well give up on palms. I’m tired of freezes. 

I wasn't necessarily commenting off the back of what you said. But I saw a few people posting that they are out of the woods now essentially and should be okay from here on. In reality there is the legit potential for a sudden stratospheric warming event in late Jan / early Feb, which is being signalled by the models. A severe displacement could send a massive amount of polar air south into any of our regions and cause havoc. It could hit us here in Europe, or you guys in north America. Most of us won't be home and dry for another 4-6 weeks in theory, including yourself. Given that you saw 8-10F as recently as mid-Feb 2021, I would certainly not rule out a repeat of that again, although it remains very unlikely.

 

3 hours ago, Allen said:

I don't pay much attention to predictions weeks in the future.  I make decisions based on my history.  it's all kind of a common sense gamble.  For instance many large Trachycarpus have been uncovered because risk of below 10F is pretty. low.  if that changes than I have to recover, no biggie.

Here's how my temps pan out.  Temps in F.  I keep a chart of lows because that's what I'm most interested in.

Green = good / orange = danger some palms / red = under 15F.  You can see most of the red is in January

I rarely get bad freezes here in February. Similar to yourself, most of the severe cold is concentrated in December and January for me historically. However, the lowest temperatures I have ever experienced since I started growing palms was during the last few days of February 2018 during our infamous 'Beast from the East' event. I went down to 12F out here in the country with no UHI. It had been a pretty mild winter overall, right up until the last week of February when it hit. I have never really had any cold like that before, so late on, but it can certainly happen.

I can see that in 2015 you had lows of 3F as late as 16th-23rd February as well as 8F as late as 2nd - 9th March. So you are definitely not out of the woods and won't be for well over another month or so. If the polar vortex was displaced due to a SSW event in late Jan / early Feb and it drops the arctic air down over you guys, then you could for sure be looking at 0F in say mid February. Maybe even late Feb, depending when it hits. That would be further compounded off the back of the previous freeze you had, so damage would be amplified.

Again, it likely won't happen, but never count your eggs too early. Looking at your climatic stats, I can see you have experienced -16F in February before, so under a displaced vortex you could definitely go down to 0F even during the last few days of February. Not likely, but not impossible. It depends on how much arctic air is displaced from a potential SSW event and where exactly it comes down over. There is a good chance that some of us on here are going to get nuked at some point next month. Just saying. I am definitely concerned here, since I have already suffered through a pretty dodgy winter so far. It would be the last thing I need. The last thing any of us needs for that matter.

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Dry-summer Oceanic / Warm summer Med (Csb) - 9a

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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The polar vortex is becoming like a little child without a home. I really expect anything to happen with it nowadays. So much warm air gets transported into the Arctics by Western winds it's incredible.

  

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22 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

I wasn't necessarily commenting off the back of what you said. But I saw a few people posting that they are out of the woods now essentially and should be okay from here on. In reality there is the legit potential for a sudden stratospheric warming event in late Jan / early Feb, which is being signalled by the models. A severe displacement could send a massive amount of polar air south into any of our regions and cause havoc. It could hit us here in Europe, or you guys in north America. Most of us won't be home and dry for another 4-6 weeks in theory, including yourself. Given that you saw 8-10F as recently as mid-Feb 2021, I would certainly not rule out a repeat of that again, although it remains very unlikely.

 

I rarely get bad freezes here in February. Similar to yourself, most of the severe cold is concentrated in December and January for me historically. However, the lowest temperatures I have ever experienced since I started growing palms was during the last few days of February 2018 during our infamous 'Beast from the East' event. I went down to 12F out here in the country with no UHI. It had been a pretty mild winter overall, right up until the last week of February when it hit. I have never really had any cold like that before, so late on, but it can certainly happen.

I can see that in 2015 you had lows of 3F as late as 16th-23rd February as well as 8F as late as 2nd - 9th March. So you are definitely not out of the woods and won't be for well over another month or so. If the polar vortex was displaced due to a SSW event in late Jan / early Feb and it drops the arctic air down over you guys, then you could for sure be looking at 0F in say mid February. Maybe even late Feb, depending when it hits. That would be further compounded off the back of the previous freeze you had, so damage would be amplified.

Again, it likely won't happen, but never count your eggs too early. Looking at your climatic stats, I can see you have experienced -16F in February before, so under a displaced vortex you could definitely go down to 0F even during the last few days of February. Not likely, but not impossible. It depends on how much arctic air is displaced from a potential SSW event and where exactly it comes down over. There is a good chance that some of us on here are going to get nuked at some point next month. Just saying. I am definitely concerned here, since I have already suffered through a pretty dodgy winter so far. It would be the last thing I need. The last thing any of us needs for that matter.

My greater point was that by late Feb, we ARE out of the woods, as far as the Feb 21 type freezes. It’s never happened in record keeping history to this extent. Freezes are possible all the way through March but after Feb 15-20 the chances of an event like 2021 are non existent statistically. 
 
As I said after March 1, San Antonio has dropped below 20F 3 times total since the 1800’s,  2 times at 19F and once at 17F. There’s a reason we’re at 29 degrees north. We’re more likely to see 95-100 degrees in March than teens. It’s been 100 degrees in March before. 

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Whoever grows palms in the sunbelt zone 7a to 11b could be at risk of a freeze that can kill your favorite palm every year but if you don't zone push it i wouldn't be worried about a polar vortex at all. Miami got down to 28F in the late 1947 , Los Angeles down to 27F in 1947 as well.  It's all possible that it can happen again but chances for such an event are super rare .  Even Feb 21 was rare but didn't take out native palms . If you're a zone pusher like me I keep an eye on winter weather.  The average temperature in February is higher than in January at least down here in the sun belt. 

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2 hours ago, MarcusH said:

  The average temperature in February is higher than in January at least down here in the sun belt. 

It's significantly higher in Feb.  The average high is above 70F by the end of Feb, and there has been some real heat in Feb.  Consider 1996 when San Antonio had consecutive high temperatures in Feb of 93, 94, 97, and 100F.

Dec and Jan are the only months in SA history that have not seen 100 degrees (and both of those months have seen 90s)

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I tend to think of my winter here in SC lasts from mid December to mid January. I’ve only been down here since 2016, although I did live in upstate SC in 2007/8. Cold snaps can certainly happen later in the winter, however, the sun intensity in February and  into March quickly brings the chances of days not getting above freezing certainly diminish. We all know winter can strike late, case in point below. Early February….

 

 

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I think it was Allen that said to not assess damage till spring and he is right…been a few weeks since the arctic invasion and now I’m seeing some unpleasant things…but I’ll mention, no spear pull…yet…and all spears are actively growing so that’s reassuring.

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The Trachy seems to be shedding the lower third of its fronds…they are drooping and looking like this. We’ve had no ice to weigh them down yet so I think it’s taking the opportunity to suck all the life out of them for strength…fronds in the upper two thirds of the palm are erect and green…they seem unharmed…except for the most advanced spear:

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It has definite damage on the outer region…the more buried spears look good though. We’ll see. The Brazoria did remarkably well:

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Like the Trachy it’s sucking the life out of a couple older fronds but excited about its growth potential when it warms up. The Chamaerops did not do so well and that was with ground heat and cover…

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I wrapped the trunk in lights after I gave it a buzz cut for any future weather but to tell you the truth, two strings is too many…lit it up and covered it with a fleece blanket for a really cold night and it was super hot under the blanket…thought maybe I killed it for sure by baking the crown but noticed today that it’s hacked off spear is growing…glad to see! Will watch this one carefully…the McCurtain, of course, no issues…you’ve seen these guys below a thousand times but for any zone 7 grower, the needles and Sabal minors are no protection wonders!

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So, 2014 was the in ground beginning for most of these palms and 2022 was the first year they suffered any damage…but again no spear pull and all spears are growing! Ordered 20 pounds of PalmGain for the spring, a bunch of mulch and will nurse them all back to good health. Hopefully the Chamaerops will explode with growth.


 

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31 minutes ago, GregVirginia7 said:

I think it was Allen that said to not assess damage till spring and he is right…been a few weeks since the arctic invasion and now I’m seeing some unpleasant things…but I’ll mention, no spear pull…yet…and all spears are actively growing so that’s reassuring.
 

I looked back at our posts and you said you had temps of 8F-10F for the low.   This is really helpful info for me to have as I am always trying to find the exact limits of Trachycarpus fortunei fronds/trunks, etc.   And it seems the study that has them start damage at 12F and fronds take 50% damage at 8F is pretty darn close as you seem to have fallen in that range.   Last year mine had lows of 12F and the fronds started having tiny cold spotting damage.  I think 95% your Trachy palms that size will be fine but I would spray copper in them once per month if you have any doubts or don't see the spear moving well or it has any 'loose' feel to it.  I think the lack of freezing rain really helped us on this.

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  18' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia odorata (1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -6F, -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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Yes sir…it was a very dry event…subfreezing days/nights lasted only  two days…the Trachy has been through way worse in extended, unprotected cold and not suffered that emerging spear damage…fungal damage some winters but not the freeze damage…I do think the pending older frond “damage” isn’t as much damage as it is natural culling, maybe as a defense against the freeze trigger to add resources to the upper half…picture not that great but the upper half really looks good…going to pay better attention to watering and fertilizing this growing season to bulk it up more for next winter. The temps. I quoted were from the thermometer outside the kitchen window so it may have even been a bit lower at the Trachy crown…anyway, I’ll keep you posted as the weeks go by…will have to trim or cut that damaged frond in the spring though…half live, half dead, that’ll drive me nuts.

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46 minutes ago, GregVirginia7 said:

Yes sir…it was a very dry event…subfreezing days/nights lasted only  two days…the Trachy has been through way worse in extended, unprotected cold and not suffered that emerging spear damage…fungal damage some winters but not the freeze damage…I do think the pending older frond “damage” isn’t as much damage as it is natural culling, maybe as a defense against the freeze trigger to add resources to the upper half…picture not that great but the upper half really looks good…going to pay better attention to watering and fertilizing this growing season to bulk it up more for next winter. The temps. I quoted were from the thermometer outside the kitchen window so it may have even been a bit lower at the Trachy crown…anyway, I’ll keep you posted as the weeks go by…will have to trim or cut that damaged frond in the spring though…half live, half dead, that’ll drive me nuts.

This is the type of frond spotting I would expect to see at those temps.  At first these spots have to be seen looking thru frond into the sun and will get more visible over time.  If you hit 8F I'd expect more damage than what you have.  You really came out pretty well.    It's the rot that will kill the big ones if damage in the spear/trunk occurs at temps in the 10F and below range and it takes hold.  At least they didn't get damaged like mine!!!

5D3_8940.JPG

Edited by Allen

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  18' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia odorata (1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -6F, -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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25 minutes ago, Allen said:

This is the type of frond spotting I would expect to see at those temps.  At first these spots have to be seen looking thru frond into the sun and will get more visible over time.  If you hit 8F I'd expect more damage than what you have.  You really came out pretty well.    It's the rot that will kill the big ones if damage in the spear/trunk occurs at temps in the 10F and below range and it takes hold.  At least they didn't get damaged like mine!!!

5D3_8940.JPG

Sorry to see that…but spears are good and these Trachys really grow fast so brand new foliage will have things looking back to semi-normal by mid summer I’d guess…my Chamaerops will be a challenge but will be nice to start fresh…

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On 1/19/2023 at 7:55 PM, zone 14a said:

Don't livistonea come back from the ground at least in zone 8 and even tall ones survive freezes? 

A Livistona chinensis will grow back from a freeze as long as its growing point remains underground. But once the growing point breaches the soil surface, i.e., the palm trunks, it is fair game for any freeze that falls below survival. Chinensis are solitary palms so if their growing points are killed, the palm is dead. The palms in the photos look grim but you will have to wait until spring to find out if they are dead.

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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Of course I'm hoping as well that we will not have another severe freeze event in Central Texas, but my caution with relying on predicting the future weather based on the past is that the climate is changing.  So called 100-year, 1000-year events are happening MUCH more often than those terms would indicate.  The winters do seem to be getting warmer for many of us, but ongoing the wild swings in temperature and persistent drought (or flood) is a fairly new phenomenon in that its occurrence has been persistent.  I'm certainly not done with palms here, but I am ABSOLUTELY done with trying Queen palms ever again in San Antonio. 

I'm more in line with UK_Palms' cautionary words and think we should all be prepared to protect our palms until March is well under way.

The cooling stratosphere is a real worry! The climate change experts warn that it could continue and exacerbate wild temperature swings in the future as the climate reacts to changes in the atmosphere's chemistry as well as changes in ocean currents.

Here is to a quick return of spring for all of us!!

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