Crocodile range in Florida

[bubba]

I was not aware of the Caiman in Florida. They appear to be limited to Dade and Broward county, which probably means the Glades. They attain a maximum size of eight (8) feet and are feisty but only weigh less than 100 lb’s. They are also extremely solitary. 
 

They are apparently extremely cold sensitive, more so than the Burmese python. This appears to be the limiting factor to their growth in Florida.
 

https://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/nonnatives/reptiles/crocodilians/spectacled-caiman/

[Silas_Sancona]

No gator sightings in CA of recent, though one of these Gator-esque beasts was spotted last year out here..  No clue if CA FAWS have removed it, or if it is still lurking -somewhere, out there- let alone if there could be more, hanging out in another body of water somewhere -out there-   Fearsome looking, but fascinating. On my "lifer" list of critters to encounter / hang out with.

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/89712681

[bubba]

The Alligator Gar fish, described above,  has no relationship whatsoever to crocodiles or alligators. The Alligator Gar fish is caught widely throughout the US, primarily in the SE but has been caught as far north as Illinois.

This is a fish that lacks what most consider to be beauty. That stated, this is not anything to seek cover from or fear. 
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alligator_gar

[cocoforcoconuts]

On 2/1/2023 at 7:16 AM, bubba said:

Croc’s are a whole different ballpark when compared to alligators. To Australians, Florida crocodiles would be like little pussycats. In Australia, and other areas around the world, I would obey the signs!

It's not exactly black and white croc= more aggressive/dangerous, alligator= less so. It depends on the species and in some cases even the population, and more often than not this generalization is wrong.

Of the 17 species of crocodile, only 4 does this hold true. These are the saltwater/estuarine crocodile (C. porosus), nile crocodile (C. niloticus), cuban crocodile (C. rhombifer), and to a lesser extent mugger crocodile (C. palustris).

The other 13 species are either pretty similar in disposition/danger, or considerably less dangerous (the majority of those 13 actually) than american alligators. In the case of the american crocodile, it depends where you are. In Florida, if you were to enter the water with one, you are more likely to be attacked by an alligator than a crocodile of the same size.  However, if you are in the tarcoles river in Costa Rica, those crocs are almost as dangerous as the aforementioned 4 croc species since they are fed often and reach very large sizes. Pretty much any large species can be made very dangerous if near touristy areas where they get fed by humans and become habituated.

[Palmarum]

One of the best places to see both species overlap in the same habitat is Everglades National Park near the Ten Thousand Islands.

Spent many years fishing there and saw numerous alligators and many crocodiles. When encountered in the water they are both tepid and will just move out of your way. Leave them be and they won't care. This includes making sure not to foul hook them when casting. Occasionally, a large gator will get up on one of the docks to sun themselves and someone will come along to carefully nudge them off with a broom. The crocodiles rarely got that close. 

The main problem came from tourists and people feeding the gators. The crocodiles knew not to compete with them as the bigger gators would come in looking for food. They could get annoying and would hang around the boat ramps and docks all day. More so around the fish cleaning areas where some would throw the waste into the water. I saw some of the largest gators in my life this way as the leviathans would make their way in to get in on the action.

They had to put up warning signs everywhere, including those in a wild array of different languages. Seaweed, grasses and other aquatics would often fill the docks and boat ramp areas. You could not always see the gators under the water, but you knew they were there. Each fishing trip had at least one family with kids goofing around the docks and seawalls. I would tell the parents... "If your kid goes into the water, you're not getting them back."

Ryan

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, Palmarum said:

One of the best places to see both species overlap in the same habitat is Everglades National Park near the Ten Thousand Islands.

Spent many years fishing there and saw numerous alligators and many crocodiles. When encountered in the water they are both tepid and will just move out of your way. Leave them be and they won't care. This includes making sure not to foul hook them when casting. Occasionally, a large gator will get up on one of the docks to sun themselves and someone will come along to carefully nudge them off with a broom. The crocodiles rarely got that close. 

The main problem came from tourists and people feeding the gators. The crocodiles knew not to compete with them as the bigger gators would come in looking for food. They could get annoying and would hang around the boat ramps and docks all day. More so around the fish cleaning areas where some would throw the waste into the water. I saw some of the largest gators in my life this way as the leviathans would make their way in to get in on the action.

They had to put up warning signs everywhere, including those in a wild array of different languages. Seaweed, grasses and other aquatics would often fill the docks and boat ramp areas. You could not always see the gators under the water, but you knew they were there. Each fishing trip had at least one family with kids goofing around the docks and seawalls. I would tell the parents... "If your kid goes into the water, you're not getting them back."

Ryan

I'd agree that ..typically, both are pretty human -averse when encountered, though between the two, Alligator can be more threatening / unpredictable, esp. where they are " trained " by people feeding them  ..which is illegal to begin with.  Crocs are so rare in FL that getting into a situation w/ one would be exceptional to begin with.

That said, Croc. attacks can happen ..Cue music from the Old skool Atari game Pitfall: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/environment/2024/03/12/florida-alligator-crocodile-attacks-everglades-leesburg/72940865007/

What i'm waiting for are Green Anaconda encounters..  18-25+ft long snake, Breeding Females esp.  vs 6ft human  ...should make for some fun headlines.

[Looking Glass]

I was at the Flamingo boat launch area at the tip of Everglades National Park years ago.  (Across from it, is where that one huge American Crocodile suns it self).   Some spring breaker-types were super drunk kayaking there that day.  

Trying to get up on the dock, one fell off and into the water, as the rest all laughed and stumbled around.   He sat there treading water and laughing.   

That big croc took notice.   (see below)  He had yet to pull himself up on the mud bank to sun himself.  He kind of drifted around, and then ever so slowly, lowered himself beneath the surface and vanished… so gently and carefully that he didn’t leave any ripple or disturbance on the surface.   

 

When I noticed that, I felt a shot of adrenaline.  I ran over yelling, “get him out now!”  I grabbed that kid, and me and another guy hauled him out.   He thought it was hilarious.   

After several minutes, the croc’s head surfaced carefully nearby, then vanished again.  He kept stealthily popping up nearby, several more times.  He was hunting that kid.   I had never seen behavior like this before, in person.  

I have no problem tugging the tail of a big alligator when I’m out fishing and I want them to move.  

They just hiss and move on.   They are fat and slow and lazy during the day.  They seem more confident and dangerous at night though.  Crocodiles I don’t mess with though, and I give them a wide breadth. .  They give off more sinister vibes and make me very nervous.  
 

 

[redbeard917]

On 12/20/2022 at 1:20 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

It's interesting thought for sure... After i'd posted, i found several reports from the lower Rio Grande of Morelet's being sighted there..  A couple of the articles stated that some may have been placed there intentionally, while something else i'd seen suggested it was possible they made their way there on their own.. Regardless, like when anything else "new" moves into new territory, will be interesting to see how everyone gets alone, if Morelet's were to establish themselves, and continue expanding further out from that part of the RGV.

Another interesting look at how tolerant many animals ( and plants) we'd view as tropical can adapt when they expand ( ..or are accidentally / purposely introduced ) into new areas..  Look at Great Tailed Grackles and how they have ..essentially secured new territory ..fairly rapidly as well..  after moving north out of Mexico.. There in FL.,  Dilemma Orchid Bees continue to expand into new areas, despite the "assumption" a really cold winter would have knocked them out..

I frequently look over iNat and E-Bird observation maps to see what less common critters are showing up in larger numbers in areas many would think they couldn't survive in..  Just found recent sightings from last June  of American Flamingo around Puerto Penasco,.. That's on top of sightings of that sp., ..maybe a couple others in / around both San Diego and S.F. Bay. 

Sure, those could be escapees ( Pretty sure the San Fran. Bay Chilean Flamingo is... ), but certainly possible some of the birds in San Diego,  and those seen in Puerto Penasco may be birds that are exploring potential new territory ..In the case of American Flamingo anyway..  "San Diego" Flamingo(s) have been living the good life there for years, showing that yes, they can survive in much less ideal areas .."Ideal" being our assumption of what is ideal for their survival..

This thread is fascinating and informative. There is also a tiny outpost of flamingos just south of Tallahassee, of late.

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/local/2023/09/01/group-of-flamingos-lands-at-st-marks-wildlife-refuge-after-hurricane-idalia-pinky-florida/70737175007/

[Silas_Sancona]

39 minutes ago, redbeard917 said:

This thread is fascinating and informative. There is also a tiny outpost of flamingos just south of Tallahassee, of late.

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/local/2023/09/01/group-of-flamingos-lands-at-st-marks-wildlife-refuge-after-hurricane-idalia-pinky-florida/70737175007/

There's actually been Flamingos present in that area since 2018, per iNat. observations / other parts of the N. and Western Gulf of Mexico since 2000..



inland / Midwestern observations appear to be more the result of the Hurricane ( All documented last year )

[Palmarum]

One of the most egregious and near disastrous interactions with a gator I've witnessed took place along the road during a pitstop on the way home from a fishing trip. Reading this topic reminded me of that day. It involved a group of tourists, a behemoth gator and a fast-acting park ranger...

Years back in my high school days, we were returning from a fishing trip to the Florida west coast, same area mentioned in my post above. We stopped at a small ranger station/post along US-41 heading east as it had a public restroom. It was little more than a concrete box with a tiny office and a large radio antenna. As we pulled over, we noticed a bunch of cars and a mob of people gathered in an arc near the station's mere boat ramp. We instantly identified them as tourists as we piled out of the truck. We then spotted the focus of their attention... a massive 14 ft. (4.3m) alligator of the ancient variety. This thing had stories upon stories if it could talk. It had scars older than me. The dozen or so tourists were gawking and taking photos as the giant gator just sat there motionless, bottomed out on the sandy parking lot. 

It was late in the afternoon, so we ignored the tourist action as we had a long trip ahead. A couple of us headed to the restrooms as my attention turned to our boat. I was double checking that everything was tied down, secured, etc. (The next part took place in slow motion in my head, but it was actually only a second or two.) While standing on the boat, with my back to the action, I noticed in the corner of my eye a man carrying a small kid under the arms walking towards the gator. As I turned in my surprise, flying in from the opposite direction was a park ranger running at full speed towards the man. I swear I didn't hear his shoes touch the ground. The ranger grabbed the kid and the man and pulled them away, pushing them further past the group and yelling incoherently while totally red-faced; all in one motion. I got off the boat and realized...

... the man was going to put his kid on the back of the giant gator for a photo.

I didn't know if I was more shocked or surprised or angry or what. A second later, our group returned, packed aboard and we took off down the road, with the ranger still yelling as we gained distance from the scene. We spent the trip home talking about what had just almost happened, each giving our perspectives of what transpired. If anyone was laughing, it would have been the gator. It still hadn't moved the whole time... and it didn't need to. 

Ryan

[Looking Glass]

1 hour ago, Palmarum said:

One of the most egregious and near disastrous interactions with a gator I've witnessed took place along the road during a pitstop on the way home from a fishing trip. Reading this topic reminded me of that day. It involved a group of tourists, a behemoth gator and a fast-acting park ranger...

Years back in my high school days, we were returning from a fishing trip to the Florida west coast, same area mentioned in my post above. We stopped at a small ranger station/post along US-41 heading east as it had a public restroom. It was little more than a concrete box with a tiny office and a large radio antenna. As we pulled over, we noticed a bunch of cars and a mob of people gathered in an arc near the station's mere boat ramp. We instantly identified them as tourists as we piled out of the truck. We then spotted the focus of their attention... a massive 14 ft. (4.3m) alligator of the ancient variety. This thing had stories upon stories if it could talk. It had scars older than me. The dozen or so tourists were gawking and taking photos as the giant gator just sat there motionless, bottomed out on the sandy parking lot. 

It was late in the afternoon, so we ignored the tourist action as we had a long trip ahead. A couple of us headed to the restrooms as my attention turned to our boat. I was double checking that everything was tied down, secured, etc. (The next part took place in slow motion in my head, but it was actually only a second or two.) While standing on the boat, with my back to the action, I noticed in the corner of my eye a man carrying a small kid under the arms walking towards the gator. As I turned in my surprise, flying in from the opposite direction was a park ranger running at full speed towards the man. I swear I didn't hear his shoes touch the ground. The ranger grabbed the kid and the man and pulled them away, pushing them further past the group and yelling incoherently while totally red-faced; all in one motion. I got off the boat and realized...

... the man was going to put his kid on the back of the giant gator for a photo.

I didn't know if I was more shocked or surprised or angry or what. A second later, our group returned, packed aboard and we took off down the road, with the ranger still yelling as we gained distance from the scene. We spent the trip home talking about what had just almost happened, each giving our perspectives of what transpired. If anyone was laughing, it would have been the gator. It still hadn't moved the whole time... and it didn't need to. 

Ryan

Ugh.   There’s something about small mammals that really excites gators.   With a diet of mostly fish, frogs and snails in most locations, it must be quite an opportunity to get their jaws on that type of meat.  Nothing excites a gator and makes it super aggressive like a dog at the waters edge, or in in a small boat.  That kid could have been quickly snatched and rolled to death under water.   Thank god that ranger was there.  

[cocoforcoconuts]

On 3/26/2024 at 1:07 PM, Looking Glass said:

I was at the Flamingo boat launch area at the tip of Everglades National Park years ago.  (Across from it, is where that one huge American Crocodile suns it self).   Some spring breaker-types were super drunk kayaking there that day.  

Trying to get up on the dock, one fell off and into the water, as the rest all laughed and stumbled around.   He sat there treading water and laughing.   

That big croc took notice.   (see below)  He had yet to pull himself up on the mud bank to sun himself.  He kind of drifted around, and then ever so slowly, lowered himself beneath the surface and vanished… so gently and carefully that he didn’t leave any ripple or disturbance on the surface.   

 

When I noticed that, I felt a shot of adrenaline.  I ran over yelling, “get him out now!”  I grabbed that kid, and me and another guy hauled him out.   He thought it was hilarious.   

After several minutes, the croc’s head surfaced carefully nearby, then vanished again.  He kept stealthily popping up nearby, several more times.  He was hunting that kid.   I had never seen behavior like this before, in person.  

I have no problem tugging the tail of a big alligator when I’m out fishing and I want them to move.  

They just hiss and move on.   They are fat and slow and lazy during the day.  They seem more confident and dangerous at night though.  Crocodiles I don’t mess with though, and I give them a wide breadth. .  They give off more sinister vibes and make me very nervous.  
 

 

Good ol' Freddie. I snapped this photo of him a few years ago. He is a magnificent specimen ♥️

When I heard about the recent incident, I breathed a sigh of relief that it wasn't him involved. If it was him, this very easily could have been a fatal attack and of course that would have been the end of him (in the wild at the very least). Not to be insensitive to a hypothetical deceased, but it would just be awful to see this amazing individual removed. He is a highlight of every Everglades visit, and is much more reliably encountered than the other well known large male croc in ENP.

[cocoforcoconuts]

On 3/27/2024 at 12:49 PM, Palmarum said:

One of the most egregious and near disastrous interactions with a gator I've witnessed took place along the road during a pitstop on the way home from a fishing trip. Reading this topic reminded me of that day. It involved a group of tourists, a behemoth gator and a fast-acting park ranger...

Years back in my high school days, we were returning from a fishing trip to the Florida west coast, same area mentioned in my post above. We stopped at a small ranger station/post along US-41 heading east as it had a public restroom. It was little more than a concrete box with a tiny office and a large radio antenna. As we pulled over, we noticed a bunch of cars and a mob of people gathered in an arc near the station's mere boat ramp. We instantly identified them as tourists as we piled out of the truck. We then spotted the focus of their attention... a massive 14 ft. (4.3m) alligator of the ancient variety. This thing had stories upon stories if it could talk. It had scars older than me. The dozen or so tourists were gawking and taking photos as the giant gator just sat there motionless, bottomed out on the sandy parking lot. 

It was late in the afternoon, so we ignored the tourist action as we had a long trip ahead. A couple of us headed to the restrooms as my attention turned to our boat. I was double checking that everything was tied down, secured, etc. (The next part took place in slow motion in my head, but it was actually only a second or two.) While standing on the boat, with my back to the action, I noticed in the corner of my eye a man carrying a small kid under the arms walking towards the gator. As I turned in my surprise, flying in from the opposite direction was a park ranger running at full speed towards the man. I swear I didn't hear his shoes touch the ground. The ranger grabbed the kid and the man and pulled them away, pushing them further past the group and yelling incoherently while totally red-faced; all in one motion. I got off the boat and realized...

... the man was going to put his kid on the back of the giant gator for a photo.

I didn't know if I was more shocked or surprised or angry or what. A second later, our group returned, packed aboard and we took off down the road, with the ranger still yelling as we gained distance from the scene. We spent the trip home talking about what had just almost happened, each giving our perspectives of what transpired. If anyone was laughing, it would have been the gator. It still hadn't moved the whole time... and it didn't need to. 

Ryan

You can't fix stupid. Speaking of the other well known large American crocodile in ENP (croczilla), I witnessed something remarkably stupid a couple years ago. He was partially submerged with his posterior 2/3 or so in the water and head on the bank. I was chilling watching him when a car pulled up. A woman walked out and towards him and eventually straight up to him within 4-5 feet directly in front of him as he's facing her just to snap a pic with her phone. I yelled at her to get back and she walked off after getting her photo. If he decided to lunge she would not have stood a chance.

I really worry about him because he lives in a more secluded area with no park staff nearby to monitor people, and I can only imagine what reckless behavior goes on without sensible people present. One day some idiot is going to push their luck a tad too far and that will be the end of Croczilla.

[cocoforcoconuts]

https://baynews9.com/fl/tampa/news/2024/03/14/sabrina-peckham-alligator-death-

Unfortunately, reckless stupidity of people had fatal consequences for both a woman and a large gator that surely must have been a highlight to spot for visitors in the area. The yellow star is the site along McKay Creek where the gator was spotted with the woman's body in his mouth. You can see it connects to nearby Ridgecrest park, and if you read through the google reviews, you can see the numerous foreboding reviews with clear mentions of our culprit alligator "Hopalong".

2 senseless deaths because of reckless idiots.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ridgecrest+Park/@27.8935891,-82.8084713,398m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x88c2fa3b00e6e491:0x33deee07dae9c737!8m2!3d27.8925114!4d-82.8072865!16s%2Fg%2F1tf9tmb7?entry=ttu

Edited March 31 by cocoforcoconuts