Winterizing Queen Palm in Zone 8b

[MarcusH]

33 minutes ago, RJ said:

If you were a roofer, especially in Texas or anywhere in the SE you’ve got my respect 👍 

 

 

Lol actually I was a roofer in Germany.  I'm a German immigrant. 

[JohnAndSancho]

2 hours ago, MarcusH said:

Lol actually I was a roofer in Germany.  I'm a German immigrant. 

Welcome to Texas, brother.  Queens love our summers. Mine has been on my patio at my apartment and it's gone from a 2 foot tall strap leaf 1g plant to an 8 foot tall almost impossible to overwinter beast in ~2 years.  

[DTXpalms]

I’ve had this one planted in Dallas since 2017! Almost gave up protecting it during the feb21 freeze after losing power and snow got in the fuel line of my generator but was able to save it with artificial fire starter logs in a tamale pot 😂. That said, it’s do-able if you’re committed to protecting it.  A good starting point is wrapping it in a heating cable come December which I typically leave on until early March.

[DAVEinMB]

1 hour ago, DTXpalms said:

I’ve had this one planted in Dallas since 2017! Almost gave up protecting it during the feb21 freeze after losing power and snow got in the fuel line of my generator but was able to save it with artificial fire starter logs in a tamale pot 😂. That said, it’s do-able if you’re committed to protecting it.  A good starting point is wrapping it in a heating cable come December which I typically leave on until early March.

Great job, that queen looks really good

[MarcusH]

On 11/23/2022 at 11:12 PM, JohnAndSancho said:

Welcome to Texas, brother.  Queens love our summers. Mine has been on my patio at my apartment and it's gone from a 2 foot tall strap leaf 1g plant to an 8 foot tall almost impossible to overwinter beast in ~2 years.  

Thank you for welcoming me I appreciate it. I love the mild winters over here but don't get me started when it goes up to 100 outside again .  I'll give it a try growing a queen palm in the backyard.  I already have one in the front yard but will dig it out after winter and plant in the back so it's more protected from our cold snaps even if they're rare .  Love Queens since they're fast grower and also give you that tropical look.

[MarcusH]

17 hours ago, DTXpalms said:

I’ve had this one planted in Dallas since 2017! Almost gave up protecting it during the feb21 freeze after losing power and snow got in the fuel line of my generator but was able to save it with artificial fire starter logs in a tamale pot 😂. That said, it’s do-able if you’re committed to protecting it.  A good starting point is wrapping it in a heating cable come December which I typically leave on until early March.

What an accomplishment congratulations.  How cold was it over there in February 2021 also are you in 8a or 8b ? That queen looks so good .  I agree with you if you're willing to go the extra mile you can keep your palm tree alive .  

[MarcusH]

On 11/23/2022 at 4:08 PM, RJ said:

Honestly don’t know, just saw they weren’t on their website anymore. I’ll try giving them a call next week. 

You sir , opened a can of worms with your magical seeds lol 

[MarcusH]

On 11/23/2022 at 3:49 PM, Allen said:

You could protect one but a yard full is a problem,  You'd lose the fronds.  I just put lights on all my palms today.  For a big trunked palm a spotlight hoisted on a pole pointing at crown and either wrap trunk over mini lights or take 3 long poles like pool telescoping poles, wrap them in mini lights and secure to trunk then wrap frost cloth around trunk using pole as support.  I just put lights on a 15' mule no problem, maybe 15 minutes.

That's why I would only keep one queen palm maybe get another one I would plant next to it but that's it . All my other palms are cold hardy in my area.  The pool poles are a great idea thank you I'll look into it once the queen reached a certain height.  I can tell people have good ideas. 

[MarcusH]

17 hours ago, DTXpalms said:

I’ve had this one planted in Dallas since 2017! Almost gave up protecting it during the feb21 freeze after losing power and snow got in the fuel line of my generator but was able to save it with artificial fire starter logs in a tamale pot 😂. That said, it’s do-able if you’re committed to protecting it.  A good starting point is wrapping it in a heating cable come December which I typically leave on until early March.

Now I see you can't go wrong with a tamale pot lol

[MarcusH]

On 11/22/2022 at 1:45 PM, JLM said:

I have had my Queens in the ground since 2019 in NW FL zone 8b, but this is a very different climate than yours. My Queens are now trunking, both of them. Most winters, you wont need to protect them at all. Some winters may require protection though.

This is my protection method:
1) Tie up the fronds, not too tight but tight enough to hold them in place.
2) Wrap a sheet or 2 (or more if needed) around the palm. Make sure the entire palm is covered. Tie rope or string (something strong) around the sheets in various places to ensure that its secured in place. This is also required if you are doing crownshaft palms like Royals and Foxtails, as the lights will burn the crownshaft.
3) Wrap C9 mini christmas lights around the palm, use more strands of lights depending on how cold it will be. More lights = more heat. (NO LED LIGHTS!)
4) Repeat Step 2 (this is completely optional but it recommended for colder nights). 
5) Wrap plastic around the palm. If the palm is small, a large trash bag or a contractor bag will do just fine. You may need large tarps for big palms.

I use the sheets as a first layer to prevent burning of leaves or trunk. I use the lights as a heat source, and the second optional sheet layer is to hold in the heat more on the coldest nights. The plastic or tarps is to keep the wind off the palm, this is important because the wind will blow the heat away from the palm. This thought process is similar to how wind chill affects humans. And also, the plastic acts as a thicker layer to hold in more heat.
Here is graphic on my reference to wind chill affects:



Instead of thinking about the human body, replace the image of the person with the image of a wrapped up palm lol

Thank you for the information.  It's some work to protect those precious palms when it gets cold but so worth the effort IMO.  

[WSimpson]

On 11/21/2022 at 12:54 PM, MarcusH said:

This year in May I've bought a queen palm from HD and planted it in our front yard.  Little know did I know about cold hardy palms back then .  My idea is to move it away from the front yard reason number one is this side is exposed to cold fronts moving in from the Northwest .  There's an area on the side of the house where it's protected.  So if I wrap the trunk with Xmas lights and blankets , put enough mulch around the base and deep water it before a severe cold snap (February 2021 )moves in ,is that enough to keep it alive ? To some it might not be worth it but to me it is and I see a lot of people here pushing the hardiness of their palms .  I know it gets more complicated once the tree reaches a height where special equipment is required to reach the crown . Does anybody had any success winterizing a queen in zone 8b ?

I would wrap with Xmas lights and do what you are doing but maybe hold off on the blankets so you can plug the Xmas lights on for festive looking purposes . You could add the blankets when you see something cold moving in . That's what I'm going to do with my Washy . I'll just have the lights on it until I see below 15F moving down . Then I can quickly wrap the trunk , since it's  more time consuming putting on the lights  . Putting on  blankets is easy compared to the lights .

Getting harder to protect ,  for sure !

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Will Simpson

[DTXpalms]

On 11/25/2022 at 7:48 AM, MarcusH said:

What an accomplishment congratulations.  How cold was it over there in February 2021 also are you in 8a or 8b ? That queen looks so good .  I agree with you if you're willing to go the extra mile you can keep your palm tree alive .  

Thanks! I’m a mile south of dallas love field so technically 8b. Of course all bets were off during that freeze though - I recorded 4 degrees at the house and it got down to 26 in the enclosure when the generator died pre tamale pot. While there was burn on the leaves touching the outside of the enclosure, the great thing about queens is they love the Texas heat so with fertiziler in April (and throughout the summer) any cosmetic burns are quickly replaced with new growth.

[MarcusH]

On 11/27/2022 at 10:31 AM, Will Simpson said:

I would wrap with Xmas lights and do what you are doing but maybe hold off on the blankets so you can plug the Xmas lights on for festive looking purposes . You could add the blankets when you see something cold moving in . That's what I'm going to do with my Washy . I'll just have the lights on it until I see below 15F moving down . Then I can quickly wrap the trunk , since it's  more time consuming putting on the lights  . Putting on  blankets is easy compared to the lights .

Getting harder to protect ,  for sure !

 

Your washy looks great healthy overall.  Thank you for the information . I've noticed caring for palm trees gets very addictive.  

[MarcusH]

Good thing is Queens are cheap and fast growing.  Doesn't hurt to plant one in our climate. 

[Desert Badger]

Two questions. I have three very healthy Mule palms and live north of Houston.  Survived the 2020 winter storm. To protect them I am going to wrap them in Christmas lights to start (will mulch and water when a cold front is coming and/or wrap in blankets as I did during that freeze). 
What size Christmas lights are recommended for heating-C9 or mini lights…or doesn’t it matter? 
And, does a spray like Leaf Guardian work or is recommended?

Thank you ahead if time!

 

[MarcusH]

On 12/11/2022 at 11:16 AM, Desert Badger said:

Two questions. I have three very healthy Mule palms and live north of Houston.  Survived the 2020 winter storm. To protect them I am going to wrap them in Christmas lights to start (will mulch and water when a cold front is coming and/or wrap in blankets as I did during that freeze). 
What size Christmas lights are recommended for heating-C9 or mini lights…or doesn’t it matter? 
And, does a spray like Leaf Guardian work or is recommended?

Thank you ahead if time!

 

My palms are still young and this will be their first winter.  We should expect our first freeze next week just don't know how severe .  I'm also not an expert I think most people here know a lot more than i do . C9 lights is the way to go they produce enough heat . I haven't used Leaf Guardian yet but would be great if someone give us a review about it.  

[Allen]

On 12/11/2022 at 11:16 AM, Desert Badger said:

Two questions. I have three very healthy Mule palms and live north of Houston.  Survived the 2020 winter storm. To protect them I am going to wrap them in Christmas lights to start (will mulch and water when a cold front is coming and/or wrap in blankets as I did during that freeze). 
What size Christmas lights are recommended for heating-C9 or mini lights…or doesn’t it matter? 
And, does a spray like Leaf Guardian work or is recommended?

Thank you ahead if time!

 

You can go to my channel to see how I winterize palms in TN.  I use mini lights for a number of reasons.  Depends on how you use them as C9 touching fronds or without a thermocube can burn your palm

[Than]

On 11/22/2022 at 9:45 PM, JLM said:

I have had my Queens in the ground since 2019 in NW FL zone 8b, but this is a very different climate than yours. My Queens are now trunking, both of them. Most winters, you wont need to protect them at all. Some winters may require protection though.

This is my protection method:
1) Tie up the fronds, not too tight but tight enough to hold them in place.
2) Wrap a sheet or 2 (or more if needed) around the palm. Make sure the entire palm is covered. Tie rope or string (something strong) around the sheets in various places to ensure that its secured in place. This is also required if you are doing crownshaft palms like Royals and Foxtails, as the lights will burn the crownshaft.
3) Wrap C9 mini christmas lights around the palm, use more strands of lights depending on how cold it will be. More lights = more heat. (NO LED LIGHTS!)
4) Repeat Step 2 (this is completely optional but it recommended for colder nights). 
5) Wrap plastic around the palm. If the palm is small, a large trash bag or a contractor bag will do just fine. You may need large tarps for big palms.

I use the sheets as a first layer to prevent burning of leaves or trunk. I use the lights as a heat source, and the second optional sheet layer is to hold in the heat more on the coldest nights. The plastic or tarps is to keep the wind off the palm, this is important because the wind will blow the heat away from the palm. This thought process is similar to how wind chill affects humans. And also, the plastic acts as a thicker layer to hold in more heat.
Here is graphic on my reference to wind chill affects:



Instead of thinking about the human body, replace the image of the person with the image of a wrapped up palm lol

Sorry for the stupid question: when you guys say "sheet" do you mean horticultural cloth or just a normal bed sheet?

[Allen]

3 minutes ago, ego said:

Sorry for the stupid question: when you guys say "sheet" do you mean horticultural cloth or just a normal bed sheet?

Frost cloth would be highly recommended.

[JLM]

8 minutes ago, ego said:

Sorry for the stupid question: when you guys say "sheet" do you mean horticultural cloth or just a normal bed sheet?

Stupid questions do not exist. I use regular bed sheets, but as said above, frost cloth would work better.

[Than]

cheers guys!

[MarcusH]

2 hours ago, ego said:

Sorry for the stupid question: when you guys say "sheet" do you mean horticultural cloth or just a normal bed sheet?

Not stupid question to me. Well I just used some old bedsheets because I couldn't find no frost cloth at a store and I know nurseries charge you an arm and leg. I reacted too late. 

[WSimpson]

I've found that C9 incandescent lights get really hot so I use the mini lights . I've cooked a couple palms with C9's , and the palm tissue smells like boiled artichokes  . 

Good luck .

Edited September 26, 2023 by Will Simpson

[MarcusH]

2 hours ago, Will Simpson said:

I've found that C9 incandescent lights get really hot so I use the mini lights . I've cooked a couple palms with C9's , and the palm tissue smells like boiled artichokes  . 

Good luck .

I've heard the same story about C9 lights so next time I'm going to get some mini lights as well and go from there.  

[Than]

13 hours ago, MarcusH said:

Not stupid question to me. Well I just used some old bedsheets because I couldn't find no frost cloth at a store and I know nurseries charge you an arm and leg. I reacted too late. 

Here in Greece I find frost cloth for few dollars. Perhaps there are different qualities. I'll try this method for the first this winter to protect my Terminalia Catappa. It's in a big pot and has already exceeded 7 ft in height so can't put it indoors. I hope it survives. The coldest night last year was about 34F.

In the case of large trees where covering the whole tree is difficult, which parts should I most focus on? 

Edited September 27, 2023 by ego

[SeanK]

19 hours ago, ego said:

Sorry for the stupid question: when you guys say "sheet" do you mean horticultural cloth or just a normal bed sheet?

I used to buy sheets and blanket for the garden at Goodwill.

[Allen]

20 hours ago, ego said:

Sorry for the stupid question: when you guys say "sheet" do you mean horticultural cloth or just a normal bed sheet?

A couple nights bed sheets.  Longer term Frost cloth.  You don't want a water absorbing material longer term.  I usually wrap stuff for 1-2 months

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25w4dg2EznY

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Allen

[PalmatierMeg]

1 hour ago, SeanK said:

I used to buy sheets and blanket for the garden at Goodwill.

Me too. I would troll thrift stores in my area all summer long to find sheets/blankets to cover my palms. Cotton flannel sheets work great.

[Than]

But cotton sheets and blankets block sunlight right? While frost cloth can remain on the plant for months in theory 

[SeanK]

6 minutes ago, ego said:

But cotton sheets and blankets block sunlight right? While frost cloth can remain on the plant for months in theory 

How many zones are you pushing?

[Than]

3 minutes ago, SeanK said:

How many zones are you pushing?

I'm borderline 9b/10a. I need a solid 10b or even better 11a..

[ChicagoPalma]

Hey allen, i might use the mini lights for this years palm protection, but im wondering if i can still use the c9 lights, and wether i should warp the palm with burlap and then warp the c9 lights so it doesn't burn the palm and the burlap doesn't get wet/moist, or should i put the c9 lights surrounding the walls of the inside of the box?

[Allen]

11 minutes ago, ChicagoPalma said:

Hey allen, i might use the mini lights for this years palm protection, but im wondering if i can still use the c9 lights, and wether i should warp the palm with burlap and then warp the c9 lights so it doesn't burn the palm and the burlap doesn't get wet/moist, or should i put the c9 lights surrounding the walls of the inside of the box?

If you do a foamboard box as you will need to do, then you can just tie up the Trachy fronds with rope, etc and use c9 lights to heat the inside of the box.  You can just hang the lights in there not touching the palm.  They are just a heat source for that whole area.    You will make about a 2'x2' box.     You will need to use about 80-100 watts of bulbs of any type (For C9 that would be about 12 bulbs) to start and monitor temps to see how that does in your box.  I am only estimating the bulbs based on the size box I think you will have.  It is better to have the bulbs not trip the thermocube on/off a bunch if there are too many.  You will still need a thermocube and it is advised to have a temp probe in there just to monitor things.   

Where you go wrong with C9 is wrapping the palm directly with them then wrapping a mummy style wrap over that.  That is the method I use and that is why I use mini lights as they are much more suited for that.   Your climate requires the foamboard box.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Allen

[ChicagoPalma]

Yes im going to use foamboard but before i first mummy wrapped the palm and then applied the c9 lights over the mummy wrapped palm, thats why it did so well and only dipped down to 25f on the very cold days like -1 or -2f. But christmas, I made lots of changes such as adding some slits in the plastic cover, which let in fresh air to air the palm out, and was cover with gorilla tape, and i used the method james palm used on his palms which he just put c9 lights directly on the palm, but what i didn't realize is he used so little, so i got some more c9 lights and put the c9 lights and mummy wrapped the poor thing, prior to that i opened the box a lot to air the palm out, so i made those slits. On january 17th we had negatives the whole day and for a couple more days, there was probably still cold air flowing into the poor things box plus also being mummy wrapped with extremely hot lights, causing it probably to suffer both heat and cold damage, and the cold wet air helped the burlap be moist helping to rot the palm. I did learn my lesson, and will still mummy wrap the palm with burlap, but i will just put the c9 lights hung around the box not touching the palm, the palm will able to keep that warm air under the burlap when its especially cold.

[Allen]

1 hour ago, ChicagoPalma said:

Yes im going to use foamboard but before i first mummy wrapped the palm and then applied the c9 lights over the mummy wrapped palm, thats why it did so well and only dipped down to 25f on the very cold days like -1 or -2f. But christmas, I made lots of changes such as adding some slits in the plastic cover, which let in fresh air to air the palm out, and was cover with gorilla tape, and i used the method james palm used on his palms which he just put c9 lights directly on the palm, but what i didn't realize is he used so little, so i got some more c9 lights and put the c9 lights and mummy wrapped the poor thing, prior to that i opened the box a lot to air the palm out, so i made those slits. On january 17th we had negatives the whole day and for a couple more days, there was probably still cold air flowing into the poor things box plus also being mummy wrapped with extremely hot lights, causing it probably to suffer both heat and cold damage, and the cold wet air helped the burlap be moist helping to rot the palm. I did learn my lesson, and will still mummy wrap the palm with burlap, but i will just put the c9 lights hung around the box not touching the palm, the palm will able to keep that warm air under the burlap when its especially cold.

In the foam box you don't need the burlap

[ChicagoPalma]

Ok, and also what foam board do you recommend and how many c9 lights to hang around the inside of the box. Also should I have some c9 lights laying on the ground to heat the ground up?

 

also I’m wondering how James palms palms don’t fry when c9 lights are applied to the palm tree, small amount.

Edited September 27, 2023 by ChicagoPalma

[Allen]

1 hour ago, ChicagoPalma said:

Ok, and also what foam board do you recommend and how many c9 lights to hang around the inside of the box. Also should I have some c9 lights laying on the ground to heat the ground up?

 

also I’m wondering how James palms palms don’t fry when c9 lights are applied to the palm tree, small amount.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snEl8oAOD10

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