PNW - 3rd La Nina Winter in a row weather talk

[UK_Palms]

23 minutes ago, Chester B said:

I'm not worried, I haven't had any real cold in the second half of Feb.  People I know who have been growing in the PNW a lot longer than me (decades) consider it the Safe zone so that's good enough for me.  The sun is higher, the days are much longer (10.5 hours+ of daylight) and February is when we can experience some pretty warm days.  We had some overnight snow in March last year if I remember correctly but it wasn't all that cold.  You have to go back to 1950 to find anything like -17C.

 

I believe Portland had -8C to -9C on 26th Feb 2011, which was the coldest spell of that winter. The record low for that date (26th) appears to be -13C back in 1890, which is obviously what 133 years ago now. So allowing for any climate change and a slight increase in UHI, you could still definitely get lows down to -10C during the last week of Feb. Probably lower even.

Highly unlikely to occur, however the -11C that I got here on 27th February 2018 was an all-time date record minima for my area with records going back to like 1650 or 1725. Central London even saw -4C or -5C there and -10C in the outer suburbs. For context that would be the equivalent of you having about -14C or so during the last week of February, to break the record by at least 1C. That's based on the current -13C record for the last week of February in Portland.

Is the second half of February 'generally' safe in Portland though? Well yeah it would be, usually. But.

[Las Palmas Norte]

Chilly again. Something tells me February's weather could have another cold blast.

[ShadyDan]

4 hours ago, Chester B said:

-2C for me last night but the cold east wind is blowing.

Tonight is my cold night somewhere around 23F or -5C.  It's a brief drop and then its looking good into mid February.  So this should be it for the year, the second half of Feb is what I consider the safe zone.

Got up to 6 degrees here today, no wind either. Spent most of the day outside in the sun. -2 for the low tonight, then back to the warmer, grey weather we are used to this time of year for the foreseeable future. 
 

My worst cold since living here has ALWAYS been December/January. I’m not worried too much about the cold going forward into February. Sure, it can get cold in February and even into March here, but those cold snaps are always tame and short lived in comparison to the last December freezes I have had. 
 

I’m certainly looking forward to that first 15C+ sunny day we usually get in February sometime for some deck beers in my t-shirt. 

[Chester B]

3 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

 

I believe Portland had -8C to -9C on 26th Feb 2011, which was the coldest spell of that winter. The record low for that date (26th) appears to be -13C back in 1890, which is obviously what 133 years ago now. So allowing for any climate change and a slight increase in UHI, you could still definitely get lows down to -10C during the last week of Feb. Probably lower even.

Highly unlikely to occur, however the -11C that I got here on 27th February 2018 was an all-time date record minima for my area with records going back to like 1650 or 1725. Central London even saw -4C or -5C there and -10C in the outer suburbs. For context that would be the equivalent of you having about -14C or so during the last week of February, to break the record by at least 1C. That's based on the current -13C record for the last week of February in Portland.

Is the second half of February 'generally' safe in Portland though? Well yeah it would be, usually. But.

Ok thanks for informing me that I've been mistaken in my assumptions on the weather here.  I guess I'll have to lean heavily into my heritage and go with the flow.  I'll be sure to have the toques and toboggans on stand by, and a two-four of Molson ready that I can cool off in the snow.  While I'm at it I'll let the HOA know to have the zamboni on the ready to make sure the pond is clear for a nice game of pickup three on three.  Afterwards we'll have some double-doubles from Timmy's to warm us up.  And yes I will tell the local kids not to lick any metal poles.

Take it easy Bud!  Cheers.

 

 

[Foxpalms]

1 hour ago, ShadyDan said:

I’m certainly looking forward to that first 15C+ sunny day we usually get in February sometime for some deck beers in my t-shirt. 

Canadians must do the same as what certain British people do, wear shorts and a t shirt in cold weather! Personally I would never wear a t shirt outside here unless it's at least 70f during the day. I'd just stay in the conservatory that way I can be in 80f and be surrounded by coconuts and still feel the sun!

[UK_Palms]

6 minutes ago, Chester B said:

Ok thanks for informing me that I've been mistaken in my assumptions on the weather here.  I guess I'll have to lean heavily into my heritage and go with the flow.  I'll be sure to have the toques and toboggans on stand by, and a two-four of Molson ready that I can cool off in the snow.  While I'm at it I'll let the HOA know to have the zamboni on the ready to make sure the pond is clear for a nice game of pickup three on three.  Afterwards we'll have some double-doubles from Timmy's to warm us up.  And yes I will tell the local kids not to lick any metal poles.

Take it easy Bud!  Cheers.

 

I don't mean to sound condescending or anything. Just highlighting a genuine risk. I think I live in fear of another late February freeze, having experienced it myself almost 5 years ago. I know the French guys certainly wouldn't have forgotten about it and live in fear of another one. The late February 2018 event affected all of western Europe.

I think parts of the French Med even went down to -11C / 12F or something ridiculous at 43N. I remember them talking about 30-40 year old palms being wiped out near Marseille in that event. I'm pretty sure some parts of northern Spain even had -10C / 14F right near the coast even. Parts of Germany recorded their coldest February temps on record, during the last week of the month.

Also that close to spring, most of us were seeing 20C a week or so after it, even here. Yet the serious cold threat was still very real though, right up until March arrived. Western Europe is also more protected from severe freezes than the PNW as well, relevant to latitude. Yet we still got annihilated during the last week fo February. Hopefully that won't happen again in my lifetime. Touch wood.

Take care, Chester.

[Las Palmas Norte]

14 hours ago, Chester B said:

I'll be sure to have the toques and toboggans on stand by, and a two-four of Molson ready that I can cool off in the snow. 

Non of which I own. I'm a shameful Canadian that doesn't follow ice hockey either. 

[Chester B]

13 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

I don't mean to sound condescending or anything. Just highlighting a genuine risk.

I've been at this for long enough to know there is a small amount of risk in late winter, but if I were a betting man I would bet against it getting truly cold.  Sure its not absolute but its pretty darn close to it.  The climate will always throw you a curveball now and then.  For me hitting 115F/46C for a few days was not something I would've predicted, prior to that the hottest day I could remember was 105F/40.5C.  

So the meteorologists and weather apps missed by a few degrees last night.  I was pleasantly surprised to see that we only got to 25F/-4C and today will be cool and sunny but well enough above freezing at 40F/4.5C.  So I wouldn't exactly call this an arctic blast, but more of a typical cold winter night. They were hyping it up as usual and turned into a nothing burger.

I've only protected a few of my plants a few times over the years whenever they called for some real cold, and it always seems to fizzle out (not complaining).  Only this last December did we approach cold enough temps and a long enough duration to cause problems for a few things.  I may have lost a Sabal causiarum, I see fungus in the spear, even with a couple of application of copper fungicide.

[Chester B]

6 minutes ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Non of which I own. I'm a shameful Canadian that doesn't follow ice hockey either. 

I can tell you don't watch Hockey because you called it "Ice Hockey".😜

[ShadyDan]

2 hours ago, Chester B said:

I can tell you don't watch Hockey because you called it "Ice Hockey".😜

Just went to see the Canucks last week and was happy to see two donnybrooks in that game. Much better in person than watching it on my chesterfield, eh buddy?

-4.0 C on the nose for us hosers in Nanoose last night, a little colder than forecasted but not cold enough to faze anything.

[Las Palmas Norte]

Sunny calm and mild on Friday (SW shade reading).

 

Today (Monday) hazy and much cooler (same SW shade).

 

[Trustandi]

Oh great, another incoming cold blast for our area on Valentine's day. Hopefully, it won't materialize, 🙄

[Chester B]

On 2/10/2023 at 11:49 AM, Trustandi said:

Oh great, another incoming cold blast for our area on Valentine's day. Hopefully, it won't materialize, 🙄

Is it looking bad?  A couple crisp nights here in the upper 20s but daytime highs well above freezing. 

[Trustandi]

It is not looking too bad. The lowest will be around 28F with the daytime temperature in upper 40F. 

I think I am just tired of this winter weather. We need warm Spring. 

[Chester B]

17 hours ago, Trustandi said:

It is not looking too bad. The lowest will be around 28F with the daytime temperature in upper 40F. 

I think I am just tired of this winter weather. We need warm Spring. 

We’re still running below normal. Plants are a month behind schedule. That’s what everyone around here keeps talking about. At least this last weekend was decent, it’s the first one I’ve had without rain in I don’t know how long. 

[Chester B]

It got pretty cold last night at 27F.  The heaviest frost I've seen all year.

Watch out for the end of next week, some pretty cold weather for late February.  Three cold looking nights.  Usually I've started my gardening at this point, but I've been on hold due to the crappy weather this year. 

The Polar vortex looks like its breaking down, so who knows what will happen.  Last time it did this at this time of the year The Beast from the East hit the UK.

[UK_Palms]

11 minutes ago, Chester B said:

The Polar vortex looks like its breaking down, so who knows what will happen.  Last time it did this at this time of the year The Beast from the East hit the UK.

Correct. I still have nightmares from that record late freeze in February 2018. The record low for the date was broken by about 3-4C for me here when it hit. It had never been so cold, so late on. So it was really quite severe. We were also just unlucky that it came down over Europe/Siberia and not over Japan or North America. The setup in general was awful for us here.

Disclaimer - it was also the strongest sudden stratospheric warming (SSW) on record that triggered that event. So strong that it caused a complete split of the vortex. This one that is just starting isn’t anywhere near as severe and it has happened later on, meaning the true effects of a displaced vortex (not a split) likely won’t be felt until about early March now.

So not only will this one be a lot weaker in general, but it will also be too late on to really pack a proper punch still. Whether it hits you guys in the PNW, the east coast of the US, Japan, or us here in Europe, it certainly won’t be anything like the February 2018 BFTE in terms of extremities and departure from average. Probably not even half as bad as the BFTE.

[Foxpalms]

1 hour ago, Chester B said:

It got pretty cold last night at 27F.  The heaviest frost I've seen all year.

Watch out for the end of next week, some pretty cold weather for late February.  Three cold looking nights.  Usually I've started my gardening at this point, but I've been on hold due to the crappy weather this year. 

The Polar vortex looks like its breaking down, so who knows what will happen.  Last time it did this at this time of the year The Beast from the East hit the UK.

When it broke down in 2019 it had no effects on the weather here however in 2018 it caused those horrible conditions. This has been a very strange winter. It has either been very cold or very mild. Just had back to back days of 17c hopefully it stays mild for the rest of the month. Personally I think we will have a few colder than average days with lows around 1-3c. The isotherms look cold but not like the were back in December and the sun is also stronger than back then.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Foxpalms

[BayAndroid]

Desperately trying to make it through the first winter in the ground... consequently the coldest year since 2010, according to our local meteorologist. Unfortunately, I am in a low spot where I experience cold drainage, so it gets pretty cold compared to the surrounding areas. This morning's low was 29, but tomorrow's sounds like it will be at least a couple of degrees worse. As you can tell, this poor Archontophenix has already been through it this year. Multiple hours at 27 in the last snap.   

[Chester B]

22 hours ago, BayAndroid said:

Desperately trying to make it through the first winter in the ground... consequently the coldest year since 2010, according to our local meteorologist. Unfortunately, I am in a low spot where I experience cold drainage, so it gets pretty cold compared to the surrounding areas. This morning's low was 29, but tomorrow's sounds like it will be at least a couple of degrees worse. As you can tell, this poor Archontophenix has already been through it this year. Multiple hours at 27 in the last snap.

It's been a bad winter as predicted.

Watch out for next Wednesday to Saturday.  RIght now for Feb 22-24 I am showing overnight lows in the forecast that will break the all time records.   One app even has the low on Thursday at 16F/-9C, which would be the lowest temp recorded at my location in 7 years.

 

[BayAndroid]

1 hour ago, Chester B said:

It's been a bad winter as predicted.

Watch out for next Wednesday to Saturday.  RIght now for Feb 22-24 I am showing overnight lows in the forecast that will break the all time records.   One app even has the low on Thursday at 16F/-9C, which would be the lowest temp recorded at my location in 7 years.

 

Freaking great...
I saw that in the 10 day earlier this morning. I lucked out a little this morning, some cloud cover warmed up the morning lows, so we only got to 29 for a short period. Based on my microclimate, I am thinking that the temperatures in my yard will be *hopefully* be 26 - 28... but it will be worse because it'll be accompanied by rain. Icy... It had to be this year, with all of my new plants in the ground for the first time. 

[Cody Salem]

So glad I didn't put these in the ground last fall, but the garage is getting a little crowded 

[Chester B]

1 hour ago, Cody Salem said:

So glad I didn't put these in the ground last fall, but the garage is getting a little crowded 

I held off planting many things last summer because I was worried about winter.  By mid summer I stopped, unless it was an exceptionally hardy plant.  My garage is full of palms too.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Chester B

[Cody Salem]

3 hours ago, Chester B said:

I held off planting many things last summer because I was worried about winter.  By mid summer I stopped, unless it was an exceptionally hardy plant.  My garage is full of palms too.

Do you have any experience growing palms from Raintree?  I got a nice mule palm and large chamaerops humilis and I'm wondering if I'll need to baby them for a year or two.  I'm thinking that they probably haven't ever experienced anything below 30 deg being in that greenhouse all winter, and they probably haven't hardened up properly.  They seem like they must be at least 10 yrs  old too, VERY rootbound

[Chester B]

11 hours ago, Cody Salem said:

Do you have any experience growing palms from Raintree?  I got a nice mule palm and large chamaerops humilis and I'm wondering if I'll need to baby them for a year or two.  I'm thinking that they probably haven't ever experienced anything below 30 deg being in that greenhouse all winter, and they probably haven't hardened up properly.  They seem like they must be at least 10 yrs  old too, VERY rootbound

Yes you will need to baby them at least the first year.  Many of their palms have been in the pots for too long without being upsized so some are a little compromised.  I've had ones that took off right away , but did lose a Sabal uresana its first winter, and I know someone else who lost a small Jubaea first winter at temps that shouldn't have bothered either one.  Better safe than sorry.

[Las Palmas Norte]

If tomorrow nights forecast low (18°F / -8°C ) is realized, it will tie the coldest night that was set in 1993 (30 years ago). I hope that doesn't materialize, but if it does, so be it.

[Chester B]

Well the weather guys whiffed again on the forecast. You have to love it when they say “we’re not really sure what’s going to happen”. 
 

Massive snow here. The city’s shut down and the roads are at a stand still. People stuck for hours in the same place. At 6 pm the city had 5.5” but the snow has continued. At my location I’ve gotten a couple inches of the heavy wet snow. Some areas may get close to a foot. Definitely historic for this time of year. It’s not all that cold right now. Tomorrow the winds are supposed to pick up so that coupled with all the heavy wet snow could be a recipe for disaster. Most likely widespread power outages. Thursday overnight and Friday overnight are projected to be quite cold but we’ll see what happens.

[Las Palmas Norte]

1 hour ago, Chester B said:

Massive snow here. The city’s shut down and the roads are at a stand still. ...

Just a very light dusting here. It's been holding steady at 25°F for that past few hours and it's currently 22:45 hrs. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Las Palmas Norte

[Foxpalms]

On 1/29/2023 at 11:09 PM, UK_Palms said:

 

I believe Portland had -8C to -9C on 26th Feb 2011, which was the coldest spell of that winter. The record low for that date (26th) appears to be -13C back in 1890, which is obviously what 133 years ago now. So allowing for any climate change and a slight increase in UHI, you could still definitely get lows down to -10C during the last week of Feb. Probably lower even.

Highly unlikely to occur, however the -11C that I got here on 27th February 2018 was an all-time date record minima for my area with records going back to like 1650 or 1725. Central London even saw -4C or -5C there and -10C in the outer suburbs. For context that would be the equivalent of you having about -14C or so during the last week of February, to break the record by at least 1C. That's based on the current -13C record for the last week of February in Portland.

Is the second half of February 'generally' safe in Portland though? Well yeah it would be, usually. But.

During the beast from the East kentia palms survived in central London so I would say -3 to -4c and maybe -2c in the warmest possible spots. I hope  that never happens in the future, at least in the near future it's unlikely.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Foxpalms

[Chester B]

11 hours ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Just a very light dusting here. It's been holding steady at 25°F for that past few hours and it's currently 22:45 hrs. 

Getting windy today.  Had a number of branches snap on my various Southern Magnolias due to the weight of the snow and ice.  I got down to 26F but the temps are rising fast.  The winds are going to cause a lot of damage with this sticky stuff coating the trees.  

I was out last night trying to knock off as much snow as possible because I knew these winds were on the way.  With this latest batch of weather I'm more concerned about my BLE trees than the palms.

I was trying to think of a good name for this storm.  They had "The Beast from the East" which is such a great name, all I could come up with was "The Super Pest from the West".  Not nearly as good.

Breaking news- Portland got 11" of snow.  That's the most snow in one day since 1943 and its the second highest snowfall in one day in recorded history.

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by Chester B

[Las Palmas Norte]

Crazy right. We were fortunate enough to only get a trace amount of snow, and that's all gone. 11 am and it's only 32°F / 0°C and not likely to get much warmer. At least it's sunny, but a clear night ahead will allow for some very cold over night temps. The forecast hasn't changed for tonight ... 18°F / -8°C. That will tie an all time recorded low. I can only hope we get a quicker start to spring than we did last year. Good luck with the mess from that "Beast".

Edited February 23, 2023 by Las Palmas Norte

[Chester B]

We're likely to break our all time lows tonight and tomorrow night.  Fun times.  I'm already formulating in my head what's going to need to be removed and what I have in pots that can be the replacements.

[ShadyDan]

Just under 10" fell down Island in Nanoose last night. Seems like the Central Island got the worst of the snow north of the border. Pretty light and fluffy though and no winds, shouldn't be any damage to the BLEs around here. Forecast low of -7C for me tonight, won't have to protect anything other than my Mandarin. The 2021/2022 and 2022/2023 Christmas cold snaps did me the favour of weeding out anything weak enough to perish in these temperatures already.

[southpacific73]

Just when I start digging the garden this outbreak comes to visit us again! No snow here on the Lower Mainland until Saturday night when we get dumped on 10-30cm expected apparently!  -6C/22F is our low for tonight  and then it warms up. Can't believe the foothills of Southern California saw snow yesterday! Polar Vortex going crazy!

[UK_Palms]

5 hours ago, Chester B said:

We're likely to break our all time lows tonight and tomorrow night.  Fun times.  I'm already formulating in my head what's going to need to be removed and what I have in pots that can be the replacements.

I was saying in this thread a month ago, when there was a lot of talk about 'safe zones' and what not, that you guys can still get bad freezes in late February. You were probably overdue one, since Portland went down to -9C / 15F in late February 2011. Again the record for the 26th February is -13C / 8F in Portland, so while very unlikely to occur, you could get far worse than what you are currently dealing with. We were overdue a late freeze when the 2018 BFTE came along and it was certainly a reality check for me as it broke records.

History tells us that we aren't 'safe' until the first week of March at our northern latitudes. At least safe from any proper killer freezes, since both of our areas have still experienced -7C / 19F in early March before. Looking at your forecast, it could certainly be a lot worse than it is. The departure from average for you guys isn't as bad as what we experienced in late Feb 2018, which was record breaking for the dates. It would be the equivalent of you guys seeing a record breaking night down to about -14C / 6F there in the coming days.

How has your Robusta got on this winter? Did you protect it much? My washies have been absolutely annihilated here this winter. The only one that hasn't spear pulled is the Filifera. The Filibusta hybrid and Robusta have big craters in their centres where the spears used to be. I doubt those two will pull through. All 3 are completely burnt from the -8C / 17F in December and January. That was without any snow or ice as well. I haven't had any snow this winter, but the back to back nighttime radiation freezes we had under clear skies were brutal.

[Cody Salem]

In Salem Oregon,  my lowest temperature (20F) last year occurred on the same day,  February 23, 2022.   We have been spoiled lately, our average yearly low calculated since the 1890's is 15.87F but we've only dropped below that 4 times in the last 20 years. 

[Chester B]

12 hours ago, Cody Salem said:

In Salem Oregon,  my lowest temperature (20F) last year occurred on the same day,  February 23, 2022.   We have been spoiled lately, our average yearly low calculated since the 1890's is 15.87F but we've only dropped below that 4 times in the last 20 years. 

I had 25F that night with a daytime high of 50F so nothing too concerning, just one cold night.  If you look at all the records, the cold records have a trend of 1980s and older and the hot records are skewed toward the last 20 years or so.   If you look at pre 1990's there was a whole lot of cold back then.  

 

14 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

I was saying in this thread a month ago, when there was a lot of talk about 'safe zones' and what not, that you guys can still get bad freezes in late February. You were probably overdue one, since Portland went down to -9C / 15F in late February 2011. Again the record for the 26th February is -13C / 8F in Portland, so while very unlikely to occur, you could get far worse than what you are currently dealing with. We were overdue a late freeze when the 2018 BFTE came along and it was certainly a reality check for me as it broke records.

History tells us that we aren't 'safe' until the first week of March at our northern latitudes. At least safe from any proper killer freezes, since both of our areas have still experienced -7C / 19F in early March before. Looking at your forecast, it could certainly be a lot worse than it is. The departure from average for you guys isn't as bad as what we experienced in late Feb 2018, which was record breaking for the dates. It would be the equivalent of you guys seeing a record breaking night down to about -14C / 6F there in the coming days.

How has your Robusta got on this winter? Did you protect it much? My washies have been absolutely annihilated here this winter. The only one that hasn't spear pulled is the Filifera. The Filibusta hybrid and Robusta have big craters in their centres where the spears used to be. I doubt those two will pull through. All 3 are completely burnt from the -8C / 17F in December and January. That was without any snow or ice as well. I haven't had any snow this winter, but the back to back nighttime radiation freezes we had under clear skies were brutal.

I still stand by my safe the second week of Feb, I have about a 95% confidence interval.  😜This was an extraordinary event with Blizzard warnings in SoCal, etc.  I've spoken with many coworkers throughout California and many of them have gotten snow.   The chances of an event like this repeating are always there but the duration between these is increasing.  One or two cold nights with warmer days isn't really an issue.  This still wasn't as bad as what we experienced in December.

Wednesday afternoon the rain turned to snow, that night went to 30F/-1C 

Thursday was the bad day, we didn't meet the forecasts and only got to 29F/-1.5C but last night was cold at 23F/-5C

Today supposedly high around 39F/4C but a slightly colder nighttime low 20F/-6.7C

After that still well below average temps, most days at 45F/7C so roughly 10 degrees below normal.  No expectation for near normal temps until at least May

Three cold events has taken their toll on my many of my smaller and more sensitive species of palms.  Lots of damage to other plants as well.  The winds we get cause such issues if, it were just cold it wouldn't have been as bad.  Even tough plants have cosmetic damage like Nandinas, Choisyias and Ceanothus.  Half of my agaves have died and I expect to lose all my Salvias.

As far as Washingtonia, the bigger one looks really good.  Most of the leaves are green and unblemished, but I have had a rain shelter over it and put tarps around it as walls when these cold events hit.  The small Washy has one green frond and a green spear, the rest are all brown.  Pretty much what I was expecting, I'm actually surprised it still seems alive.  If I can nurse it through to May it should take off.  One of the factors that exascerbates the situation aside from the wind is we usually have rain right before and after cold events.  

I have left most of my palms unprotected so whatever survives this winter I know are great choices for our climate.  You rarely see anything around here aside from Trachycarpus fortunei/waggie, I imagine they make up about 95% of the palm population.  After that Chamaerops humilis probably makes up about 90% of the remaining palms. 

Butias, Sabal minor and needle palms have been in my garden from the start and survived winter 2016/2017 so those are all good choices. 

I won't know 100% until June, but I have a few newer ones (<3 years planted) that are braving this winter and look fantastic, even continuing to grow.  But I'll share the results in a few months.

[Chester B]

Heard today we broke the record for the coldest daytime high yesterday at 31F. the old one was 39F.  And it was the one of the coldest daytime highs seen this late in the year.

Lots of snow down in California today as well.  Definitely one for the record books

Instability of the jet stream and Arctic heating to blame.  Sure hope this sort of thing won't be happening again, but I suspect it will.

On a side note I saw that Europe is projected to have bitter cold in March like 14F/-10C.  This instability is going to slide over there next, not sure how much is behind that though

[Las Palmas Norte]

Starting to snow now. 32°F and 2" to 4" of accumulation expected today.

[Chester B]

23 minutes ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Starting to snow now. 32°F and 2" to 4" of accumulation expected today.

Bluebird skies and a real cold morning at 22f. At least the wind finally backed off. Temps will be rising all day and back to rain tomorrow. Nothing bad but nothing good in the extended forecast.