The Coconut Group that survived the freeze in my city

[idontknowhatnametuse]

All of these coconut palms except the biggest one survived the -8C freeze and look all recovered now. I didn't expect the majority to survive but surprisingly they did.

What do you guys think this variety is? My guess is hawaiian or panama tall

[kinzyjr]

@idontknowhatnametuse

I would have assumed Panama Tall just because of the location and chill tolerance.  They do have a similar look to the ones in the video from Justin McSweeny and @Zeeth commenting on the Panama Tall coconuts at Fairchild: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxehgBBflWk

[gilles06]

-8°C is Amazing !

[Than]

What was the maximum temperature the day after the -8 night? (I assume the -8 was the minimum at night).

 

[Foxpalms]

Maybe not the hardiest since it never gets cold, but do you think the canary Island coconut palms might be more cool tolerant than the others, and better suited for people trying them outside of the tropics in southern Europe? @egoif you can get canary Island or Madeira coconuts who knows they might stand a chance in the  warmest parts Greece. Impressive that a coconut can survive that much cold.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Foxpalms

[Than]

5 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

Maybe not the hardiest since it never gets cold, but do you think the canary Island coconut palms might be more cool tolerant than the others, and better suited for people trying them outside of the tropics in southern Europe? @egoif you can get canary Island or Madeira coconuts who knows they might stand a chance in the  warmest parts Greece. Impressive that a coconut can survive that much cold.

We have been discussing this issue with the other Greece-based members of the forum for about a year now. Madeira is warmer than southern Greece but we still want to try. I will be in India soon and I will stay in Bhopal, which I believe is one of the northernmost parts of India where coconuts grow. I am planning to post some coconuts back home (I am not sure if it is possible). They say Indian talls from central-northern India are among the hardiest coconuts in the world.

[Foxpalms]

4 minutes ago, ego said:

We have been discussing this issue with the other Greece-based members of the forum for about a year now. Madeira is warmer than southern Greece but we still want to try. I will be in India soon and I will stay in Bhopal, which I believe is one of the northernmost parts of India where coconuts grow. I am planning to post some coconuts back home (I am not sure if it is possible). They say Indian talls from central-northern India are among the hardiest coconuts in the world.

What I meant is if you can source coconuts from the coconut palms in Madeira or the canary Islands escpially ones slightly inland they might end up being the most cool hardy coconuts. But getting them from colder parts of India is also a good idea.

[Than]

3 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

What I meant is if you can source coconuts from the coconut palms in Madeira or the canary Islands escpially ones slightly inland they might end up being the most cool hardy coconuts. But getting them from colder parts of India is also a good idea.

Yes I got your point. Coconuts from Madeira or the Canary would also be a good idea but we don't know how to source them. In Greek shops you only find coconuts from Ivory Coast for some reason.

[bubba]

Where?

[idontknowhatnametuse]

3 hours ago, bubba said:

Where?

Monterrey, Mexico. We got -8C lows in February 14 2021 caused by the same storm that killed tons of tropicals in Texas.

[southathens]

2 hours ago, idontknowhatnametuse said:

Monterrey, Mexico. We got -8C lows in February 14 2021 caused by the same storm that killed tons of tropicals in Texas.

What was the max immediately following the -8C?

[idontknowhatnametuse]

9 minutes ago, Manos33 said:

What was the max immediately following the -8C?

If i remember correctly, it was +4 or +7 some hours after that the same day. the cold just lasted for some hours.

[Than]

According to https://world-weather.info/forecast/mexico/monterrey/february-2021/ temperatures in Monterrey were unsuitable for a coconut for about a week, from 12 to 19 February. How on earth did these trees survive? 

We definitely need nuts from those trees to try them in Greece!! 

Edited November 1, 2022 by ego

[Zeeth]

I would be extremely surprised if those truly saw -8 C. I've heard of some tall types barely making it after-6 C, but I'm pretty sure the trees the trees themselves in that case were only as low as -4C. 

As far as variety, I would guess they're the Mexican-type Atlantic tall just based on location. Variety can be somewhat difficult to discern in less than ideal climates due to stunting impacting defining characteristics. 

[Than]

45 minutes ago, Zeeth said:

I would be extremely surprised if those truly saw -8 C. I've heard of some tall types barely making it after-6 C, but I'm pretty sure the trees the trees themselves in that case were only as low as -4C. 

As far as variety, I would guess they're the Mexican-type Atlantic tall just based on location. Variety can be somewhat difficult to discern in less than ideal climates due to stunting impacting defining characteristics. 

I also thought that -8 may be a bit exaggerated. Perhaps where the meteo station is it was -8 but where the coconuts are it could have been higher than that. Still -4 or even -2 is impressive! Especially given that next day wasn't that warm. The whole week 12-19 was very cold for a coconut. Daily temperatures did not exceed 10C and sometimes much less. I find it hard to comprehend how these trees can survive a week of continuous cold temperatures like that.

https://www.ogimet.com/cgi-bin/gsynres?lang=en&ind=76393&ano=2021&mes=3&day=1&hora=12&min=0&ndays=30

[Victor G.]

4 hours ago, ego said:

According to https://world-weather.info/forecast/mexico/monterrey/february-2021/ temperatures in Monterrey were unsuitable for a coconut for about a week, from 12 to 19 February. How on earth did these trees survive? 

We definitely need nuts from those trees to try them in Greece!! 

But this source has the temperature only going down to -1C.
@idontknowhatnametuseCan you please confirm if this source has the temperatures right?

Also @Steliosyou mentioned (I think) once what species you have, but I forgot. Can you remind us please?

[Than]

32 minutes ago, Victor G. said:

But this source has the temperature only going down to -1C.
@idontknowhatnametuseCan you please confirm if this source has the temperatures right?

Also @Steliosyou mentioned (I think) once what species you have, but I forgot. Can you remind us please?

We will never know what the minimum temperature was precisely around those trees. But to me what matters the most is that the maximum temperatures were too low.

[idontknowhatnametuse]

Those are not even the ones that surprise me the most, this one survived that freeze with very slight damage and recovered very fast. I think it's also a tall variety. it also survives entire winters undamaged, I've kept my eye on this one since 2017 and it has never been severely damaged.

[idontknowhatnametuse]

One thing that I have noticed is that tall varieties, especially the ones that come from the pacific, do have some cold hardiness. My Orange Panama/Pacific Tall seedling faced 9 degrees celsius for several nights this and last week without protection or anything and it is completely undamaged.

[Than]

What were next days' maxima?

[idontknowhatnametuse]

30 minutes ago, ego said:

What were next days' maxima?

After that freeze, days started with 7-11 C and ended with 23-30 C

[Stelios]

1 hour ago, Victor G. said:

But this source has the temperature only going down to -1C.
@idontknowhatnametuseCan you please confirm if this source has the temperatures right?

Also @Steliosyou mentioned (I think) once what species you have, but I forgot. Can you remind us please?

My palm came from Costa Rica. I'm not sure about the variety but other members told me that it should be panama tall. I believe coconuts could survive lower temperatures for a short time especially if the winter is generally dry and day high temp soon goes back to warmer level.

I will update my post about how I almost my palm due to rot after another wet winter and how it recovered during the summer.

[southathens]

5 hours ago, ego said:

I also thought that -8 may be a bit exaggerated. Perhaps where the meteo station is it was -8 but where the coconuts are it could have been higher than that. Still -4 or even -2 is impressive! Especially given that next day wasn't that warm. The whole week 12-19 was very cold for a coconut. Daily temperatures did not exceed 10C and sometimes much less. I find it hard to comprehend how these trees can survive a week of continuous cold temperatures like that.

https://www.ogimet.com/cgi-bin/gsynres?lang=en&ind=76393&ano=2021&mes=3&day=1&hora=12&min=0&ndays=30

Yep,

These Ts are unimageanable for a coco.

I have no idea how the coco survived.

Below are the official Ts in Monterrey WMO station during the cold snap of Feb 21

[Than]

2 hours ago, idontknowhatnametuse said:

After that freeze, days started with 7-11 C and ended with 23-30 C

You mean 7-11 in the morning and 23-30 in the afternoon?

[Than]

2 hours ago, Stelios said:

My palm came from Costa Rica. I'm not sure about the variety but other members told me that it should be panama tall. I believe coconuts could survive lower temperatures for a short time especially if the winter is generally dry and day high temp soon goes back to warmer level.

I will update my post about how I almost my palm due to rot after another wet winter and how it recovered during the summer.

Can't wait to read. When your coconut produces the first nuts I'll buy some. You set the price haha

[idontknowhatnametuse]

7 minutes ago, ego said:

You mean 7-11 in the morning and 23-30 in the afternoon?

yes

[Than]

OK that could never happen here. From -2 to 27C on the same day.. 

[southathens]

1 hour ago, idontknowhatnametuse said:

yes

However, regarding the Feb 2021 cold snap check the link and pic above on the Ts of the official WMO meteorological station in Monterrey. 

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by Manos33

[southathens]

1 hour ago, ego said:

OK that could never happen here. From -2 to 27C on the same day.. 

It does happen in Greece but in really continental areas far from the sea. It happened last month in the Fthiotida area

[idontknowhatnametuse]

Another Cocos Nucifera survivor, this is a 2022 street view. The palm is located in the foothills of "Cerro del Topo Chico"

[idontknowhatnametuse]

And an Acrocomia Aculeata survivor too, this is the first one I have seen in Monterrey and it looks very healthy to me.

[idontknowhatnametuse]

September 2022

[idontknowhatnametuse]

This palm is possibly a tall variety, maybe a panama tall, maypan or hawaiian tall. it survived the freeze, it's undamaged and flowering, this is a 2022 photo.

I just wanted to share how beautiful it looks.

Edited November 25, 2022 by idontknowhatnametuse

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On 10/30/2022 at 3:53 PM, idontknowhatnametuse said:

All of these coconut palms except the biggest one survived the -8C freeze and look all recovered now. I didn't expect the majority to survive but surprisingly they did.

What do you guys think this variety is? My guess is hawaiian or panama tall

I think you need to check your temp figures.  No Coconut Palm variety could survive 17.6F, which is -8C, without a LOT of protection, including heating cables wrapped around the trunks.

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On 10/31/2022 at 8:47 AM, idontknowhatnametuse said:

Monterrey, Mexico. We got -8C lows in February 14 2021 caused by the same storm that killed tons of tropicals in Texas.

There must be quite a variation in temps in the Monterrey area.  Maybe where the official temps were taken it got down to -8C, but I guarantee you, where those Coconut Palms survived, the temps could not have dropped below -4C or -5C, and they survived without some degree of protection!

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On 11/1/2022 at 11:08 AM, Manos33 said:

Yep,

These Ts are unimageanable for a coco.

I have no idea how the coco survived.

Below are the official Ts in Monterrey WMO station during the cold snap of Feb 21

The only way it would be possible, is if there is considerable difference in temps from where the official weather station is to where the Coconut Palms are growing, which is possible with localized microclimates, especially in some mountainous areas like Monterrey.  I believe the same occurs with a Coconut Palm in inland Southern California that was grown in a favorable microclimate in an area that is otherwise too cold for them in the winter.  There used to be pics of it posted on here on Palmtalk, and it appeared to be about 20 ft. tall in overall height with a lot of old leaf bases clinging to the trunk.  It was grown adjacent to a driveway and garage of the house, as I recall.

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On 11/1/2022 at 7:46 AM, idontknowhatnametuse said:

One thing that I have noticed is that tall varieties, especially the ones that come from the pacific, do have some cold hardiness. My Orange Panama/Pacific Tall seedling faced 9 degrees celsius for several nights this and last week without protection or anything and it is completely undamaged.

I have had other more cold sensitive varieties than that, that were young and still in pots take light to moderate frosts with temps in the low to mid 30'sF with little cold damage.  Coconut Palms are more cold hardy than they are given credit for, even young ones, as long as the cold is not too intense, or for too long of a duration.  With that said, I DO NOT recommend planting any varieties, not even the more cold hardy ones in marginal climates, that are less than 7 ft. to 8 ft. tall in overall height, and not past April or May in marginal climates in order to give them plenty of warm months to get established before the next winter.

John

[idontknowhatnametuse]

Another survivor, looks like a tall variety.

[idontknowhatnametuse]

Not a coconut but the weirdest queen palm I have ever seen

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

2 hours ago, idontknowhatnametuse said:

Not a coconut but the weirdest queen palm I have ever seen

Weird!!!