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Trachycarpus fortunei in Colorado Springs Protection


Palmphile
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4 hours ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

Some guy got a trachy to 30 feet tall in northern Minnesota zone 3b so definitely feasible 

Of I'm  not mistaken it was a washy.....

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18 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

-27F is incomprehensible to me. Nowhere in the history of the UK has ever got that cold, ever! The all-time UK record low is -16F.

Fair play for getting your Trachycarpus to survive in that nonetheless! :greenthumb:

Ahhh the joys of living in Montreal 🙃 I too like using rock in my enclosure 😁😁

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24 minutes ago, Alex Zone 5 said:

Of I'm  not mistaken it was a washy.....

I know there were a few Washingtonia in Missouri, zone 6, that eventually outgrew the guy's ability to contain them and he had to watch them freeze to death one winter.  Banana Joe Clemente loves to tell that story. 

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1 hour ago, Alex Zone 5 said:

Ahhh the joys of living in Montreal 🙃 I too like using rock in my enclosure 😁😁

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Alex, I like your method.  I truthfully feel the poster could use dry leaves and chicken wire with supplemental heat only needed on nights below 0f. The rocks become very effective at temps below 25f, and probably alone give almost an extra zone.  Sealed water is also very good, but not so below 25f.  Heavier the rock, the better. 

How and what is your heat source and do you regulate it? 

Your approach looks easier, more efficient, cheaper, and doing it in -30f proves it in my mind. Wow!

 

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6 hours ago, jwitt said:

Grand Junction last winter for reference 

chart.jpeg

My take from your last winter. I would use a heat source like you doing and regulate it to come at a outside temp of 0, or 5f.  I think your enclosure could be chicken wire filled with dry leaves, with a covering only on top to stop rain/snow.  With that rock I mentioned of course. 

That's the scheme I would use.  Using that scheme, I think you would have only had to use a heat source for that spell around New years.

Your cold is cold, but not really extended due to your solar.   

And truthfully, about 75% of your winter would not require any protection of any kind. 

Edited by jwitt
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@jwittI read the link on radiant heat exchange, this does indeed defy some of the things that I thought I knew about thermodynamics.  In fact the article explains that some radiant heat exchanges seem to violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics, and some creative explanations are required to make it "fit".  This will take some further pondering.  And if air temps are less reliable than I thought, the math becomes a lot more complicated!

Edited by Jesse PNW
spelling error
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11 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

@jwittI read the link on radiant heat exchange, this does indeed defy some of the things that I thought I knew about thermodynamics.  In fact the article explains that some radiant heat exchanges seem to violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics, and some creative explanations are required to make it "fit".  This will take some further pondering.  And if air temps are less reliable than I thought, the math becomes a lot more complicated!

3 things that stand out to me 

1. For me in NM,  this thing probably was a reason for the Spanish setting up shop here in the 1500's.  They wintered with a local Pueblo tribe(Santa Ana) that had cotton cloth. Growing it in a place with a growing season that in no way supports cotton growing.  Using the "rock" method.  Little known fact.

2. The excitation of the photons is what allows the transfer of energy.  It increases(actually goes off the charts) at about 24f.  A great temperature if one were trying to protect zone 6/7/8 palms from colder temperatures.  If this excitation we're to increase more, plasma is created, the fourth state of matter (solid/liquid/gas/plasma). There is a great heat(energy) transfer at this point.  Called latent heat.  An example of this energy is 1pound of 32f water changing to 32f ice(no temperatures change)  is the same energy to raise that 32f water to 176f water!

Let me rephrase that.  That's like putting nearly 180 degree water next to your palm(energy wise) but never changing the temperature from 32f!

3 We know white objects do not absorb heat from the sun compared to black objects.  Except at 24f, white objects become black to radiation heat transfer! 

 

2 personal favorite heat factoids 

1.  There is no such thing as cold, only the absence of heat.  (Absolute zero/cold has never been observed, it is only a theory)

2. Energy always goes to non energy(heat goes to cold). 

 

Personally, water(sealed in a flat black container) or very heavy rocks, work well in temperature regime of 32f/24f and lower. Which is very helpful for single digit and lower temperature protection.  Moreso if the sun's energy(or ground) can be absorbed in the daytime.  That is the reason for my first post showing the map and region Colorado Springs is in(very high solar energy transfer in winter).  It also partially explains the Springs relatively short extended shorter freezes, considering how cold they actually do get. 

Amazing stuff in my mind. 

But those palms, still working that....

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by jwitt
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21 hours ago, Alex Zone 5 said:

Of I'm  not mistaken it was a washy.....

That was in Iowa, there are several accounts of people getting Washingtonias to survive there in winter. The trachy was up in Ely, MN. Cant find any pics of it though 

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