Trachycarpus Fortunei Scale and Yellow

[ZPalms]

I should have taken a photo of my trachy but I got it a while back and it's still in the pot and soil it originally came with but I noticed recently it has a bad scale infestation and I removed most of what I could physically get with windex and a paper towel and ran down each petiole arm but I didn't get it all completely as some of the scale is in pockets I can't get into and there is some on the new spears and I'm not sure how to get to the rest.

It's also been yellowish green since I bought the palm, but I ferteilized it back in late July and it completely retained its light yellowish green color on all the leaves but hasn't browned or anything at all. Could it be a problem that the soil is staying too moist? Or is it something else? Or was it the scale not letting the leaves get what they needed?

Edited September 27, 2022 by ZPalms

[ZPalms]

Took photos the best I could since it’s dark, not sure how good these photos will do to help identify the problem

Edited September 28, 2022 by ZPalms

[ZPalms]

Bump!

[BeyondTheGarden]

Can you get pictures of the scale?  I've never seen scale on my trachycarpus out here, but I have yet to grow them indoors. 

[Las Palmas Norte]

On 9/26/2022 at 5:52 PM, ZPalms said:

... removed most of what I could physically get with windex and a paper towel ...

😬

With ingredients such as, hexoxyethanol, isopropanolamine, sodium dodecylbenzene sulfonate, lauramine oxide, ammonium hydroxide, I'd highly recommend not using Windex on any plant material. Instead get some horticultural oil to treat scale insect infestation. 

[ZPalms]

On 9/29/2022 at 10:21 PM, Jesse PNW said:

Can you get pictures of the scale?  I've never seen scale on my trachycarpus out here, but I have yet to grow them indoors. 

 

 

It’s hard to get it all

On 9/30/2022 at 1:50 AM, Las Palmas Norte said:

😬

With ingredients such as, hexoxyethanol, isopropanolamine, sodium dodecylbenzene sulfonate, lauramine oxide, ammonium hydroxide, I'd highly recommend not using Windex on any plant material. Instead get some horticultural oil to treat scale insect infestation. 

Somebody on here recommended to use windex and it seems to work, I’m not a fan of using chemicals on palms tho, does horticultural oil work on scale?

Edited October 2, 2022 by ZPalms

[JLM]

I would think that you could just use water with a paper towel or something to wipe them off. If that doesnt work then i would go with the windex, but as said above i personally dont like spraying chemicals on my plants.

[ZPalms]

1 hour ago, JLM said:

I would think that you could just use water with a paper towel or something to wipe them off. If that doesnt work then i would go with the windex, but as said above i personally dont like spraying chemicals on my plants.

They seem to come off easy so water could work just as good as windex I just hope it kills them on contact or the residue makes them sick, It's very difficult to get down into the cracks

[Allen]

15 hours ago, ZPalms said:

 

 

It’s hard to get it all

Somebody on here recommended to use windex and it seems to work, I’m not a fan of using chemicals on palms tho, does horticultural oil work on scale?

That's a really yellow palm.  I'd pull it out of the pot and look at the roots/soil and if everything looked ok (White healthy roots in good not mucky soil) put some liquid palm fertilizer on it then some osmocote or similar.

[BeyondTheGarden]

I agree @Allen, I've seen quite a few potted Trachys that were yellow like that, mostly when they've been in the same pot too long.  Probably nutrient deficient potting soil.  But put them in the ground with some good compost and they green right up.  Well, after a few months of active growth anyway.  

[ZPalms]

14 hours ago, Allen said:

That's a really yellow palm.  I'd pull it out of the pot and look at the roots/soil and if everything looked ok (White healthy roots in good not mucky soil) put some liquid palm fertilizer on it then some osmocote or similar.

If I pull it out and the roots are nasty what do you think I should do? Should I cut those roots and apply hydrogen peroxide and rinse all the soil out the root ball and replace with new soil?

[ZPalms]

1 hour ago, Jesse PNW said:

I agree @Allen, I've seen quite a few potted Trachys that were yellow like that, mostly when they've been in the same pot too long.  Probably nutrient deficient potting soil.  But put them in the ground with some good compost and they green right up.  Well, after a few months of active growth anyway.  

Would it be ok to plant it this late in the season if I protect it this winter? I did give it some palmgain in august but it seemed to not work at all, The soil seems to be potting soil like, kind of cakey feeling.

Edited October 4, 2022 by ZPalms

[BeyondTheGarden]

You could probably plant it and be OK.  However, if you're growing palms indoors and have room, it will put on growth over the winter if you keep it inside under a growlight or in a south facing window.  I would get it out of that pot, check out the roots, let us know if it's root bound.  And Trachycarpus like big pots.  The more it can stretch its legs and soak up water and nutrients, the happier it will be.  In my experience, but there are lots of folks who have been doing this longer than me.  Maybe they have some additional insight.  

How much sun does that thing get?  The yellow fronds are the most recent, are they all from this year?   If your windex is overspraying onto the soil, or running off and ending up in the soil, that could sure cause problems.  I normally tip my palms on their sides when I hit them with insecticidal soap, and spray them down with the water jetting away from the root ball. 

[ZPalms]

32 minutes ago, Jesse PNW said:

You could probably plant it and be OK.  However, if you're growing palms indoors and have room, it will put on growth over the winter if you keep it inside under a growlight or in a south facing window.  I would get it out of that pot, check out the roots, let us know if it's root bound.  And Trachycarpus like big pots.  The more it can stretch its legs and soak up water and nutrients, the happier it will be.  In my experience, but there are lots of folks who have been doing this longer than me.  Maybe they have some additional insight.  

How much sun does that thing get?  The yellow fronds are the most recent, are they all from this year?   If your windex is overspraying onto the soil, or running off and ending up in the soil, that could sure cause problems.  I normally tip my palms on their sides when I hit them with insecticidal soap, and spray them down with the water jetting away from the root ball. 

I could pot it up, but I have another palm that needs repotting desperately, so I'll have to make a choice if I do decide to move it into a bigger pot since I only have one bigger than what it is in now. The trachy has been yellow since I bought it from a nursery and I haven't changed the soil or anything since I got it because I just thought maybe it needed fertilizer and I did think of changing the soil out, but I was like, it seems to be fine since it's alive. It wasn't until recently that I noticed the scale, and when I use Windex to wipe them off, I spray on a paper towel and wipe the arms off rather than spraying them completely. I also tip my palms if liquid gets into the crowns on accident. Later today, if I get a chance, I'll try and lift it up and see what the problem is and take photos!

I should have known it might have needed some help since the nursery doesn't sell palms. They just happened to have one and they had another completely tipped over and abused which I should go and save it. They take care of all the plants the same way, thinking that you can just use potting soil straight up like for flowers, and it would be the same for a palm and watering overhead using a hose.

Edited October 4, 2022 by ZPalms

[Allen]

8 hours ago, ZPalms said:

If I pull it out and the roots are nasty what do you think I should do? Should I cut those roots and apply hydrogen peroxide and rinse all the soil out the root ball and replace with new soil?

I haven't done a Hydrogen peroxide wash on roots before but if the roots are mushy I'd cut all mushy roots off and rinse off dirt with a hose and put in new good soil.  here is what roots looked like on mine I planted this year.  If they look like that don't mess with them just put back in pot.

 

 

[ZPalms]

1 hour ago, Allen said:

I haven't done a Hydrogen peroxide wash on roots before but if the roots are mushy I'd cut all mushy roots off and rinse off dirt with a hose and put in new good soil.  here is what roots looked like on mine I planted this year.  If they look like that don't mess with them just put back in pot.

 

 

If I have too, Is it ok to use cold hose water to rinse the soil off? Great video!!!!

[Allen]

5 hours ago, ZPalms said:

If I have too, Is it ok to use cold hose water to rinse the soil off? Great video!!!!

Yes or if it's dry just shake off as much potting soil as possible if the soil looks bad. 

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

On 10/4/2022 at 1:03 AM, ZPalms said:

Would it be ok to plant it this late in the season if I protect it this winter? I did give it some palmgain in august but it seemed to not work at all, The soil seems to be potting soil like, kind of cakey feeling.

You may be able to get away with Planting it still at this late date, but if it were me personally I’d keep it potted and outside as much as possible.   I’d bring it in for hard freezes though.    I know you’re a zone 8a but  there are cold 8as and warm 8as.  Not sure what part of NC you’re in but if you’re further east you probe my have them milder version.   
 

of the soil feels Cakey to you, it’s probably not great and not fast draining enough. Not getting enough air maybe.   I’d def pull it out as others have suggested and look at the roots and repot it using much better media.  I’ve had great success with the miracle grow palm & citrus “soil”.  I always augment it with smaller bark like orchid bark and pearlite.   Typically it’s 5-1-1 (soil-bark-pearlite) but you can make it more or even less coarse as you like or as the plant needs.
 

hope this helps man.   I do miss growing my Trachys.  They’ll grow here where I am yeah but they won’t usually thrive.  It’s just too warm and usually does not get cool enough for long enough for them.  

[ZPalms]

Here’s the root ball, I think I’ll rinse a little bit of it out if y’all think I should but I think I’m gonna dig a hole and plant it and then protect it during the winter. What do y’all think?

[GoatLockerGuns]

36 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

Here’s the root ball, I think I’ll rinse a little bit of it out if y’all think I should but I think I’m gonna dig a hole and plant it and then protect it during the winter. What do y’all think?

I do not think those roots look too bad myself.  If it were mine, I would just shake off the old dirt, re-pot in a slightly bigger pot with some sort of well draining soil mixture (something with good aeration...I like to use a mixture of palm and succulent soil, LECA, and horticultural vermiculite), and then add a little Palmgain (or some other good 8-2-12 fertilizer) to green up those leaves.  Then, like @Jesse PNW said, put it in a south facing window for the winter once it starts getting too cold there.  I would also take it outside on warmer sunny winter days when the temperature is 40F+.

[ZPalms]

3 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

I do not think those roots look too bad myself.  If it were mine, I would just shake off the old dirt, re-pot in a slightly bigger pot with some sort of well draining soil mixture (something with good aeration...I like to use a mixture of palm and succulent soil, LECA, and horticultural vermiculite), and then add a little Palmgain (or some other good 8-2-12 fertilizer) to green up those leaves.  Then, like @Jesse PNW said, put it in a south facing window for the winter once it starts getting too cold there.  I would also take it outside on warmer sunny winter days when the temperature is 40F+.

So I shouldn’t plant it? I feel like I could possible get away planting it right now but if that’s the best thing to do then I’ll put it in a pot?
 

how do I knock the old dirt out of it? Should I rinse a hose through it or just beat on the root ball a bit?
 

I don’t really have the best space inside to put it in a good bright window

[GoatLockerGuns]

Yeah, you could plant it too in Zone 8a.  Same advice basically, minus the pot and soil recommendation.  Either plant in local soil or, if you are going to add some potting soil to the hole, make sure you mix some local soil in there with it.  If your planting it, it has to get used to that soil sometime.  As for the Palmgain/fertilizer recommendation...maybe wait a few months for it to get established (like early Spring, right before the growing season really starts).  Unless you are an all-organic kind of guy...then, belay my last. 

 

If you are planting it, be prepared to occasionally have an "ugly" palm after cold events.  I have one planted here in Zone 8b that has seen some pretty brutal winters, and very hot summers.  I keep it watered regularly during the summer, and add some Palmgain twice a year (spring and fall).  It completely defoliated with spear pull in 2021, but recovered nicely.  Here it is today with 2 1/2 foot of trunk on it:

[ZPalms]

21 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Yeah, you could plant it too in Zone 8a.  Same advice basically, minus the pot and soil recommendation.  Either plant in local soil or, if you are going to add some potting soil to the hole, make sure you mix some local soil in there with it.  If your planting it, it has to get used to that soil sometime.  As for the Palmgain/fertilizer recommendation...maybe wait a few months for it to get established (like early Spring, right before the growing season really starts).  Unless you are an all-organic kind of guy...then, belay my last. 

 

If you are planting it, be prepared to occasionally have an "ugly" palm after cold events.  I have one planted here in Zone 8b that has seen some pretty brutal winters, and very hot summers.  I keep it watered regularly during the summer, and add some Palmgain twice a year (spring and fall).  It completely defoliated with spear pull in 2021, but recovered nicely.  Here it is today with 2 1/2 foot of trunk on it:

I’m nervous what to do because I don’t really have anywhere inside to put it and I don’t want it to look ripped up during the end of winter and it still has scale on it so I don’t want to give them an amazing breeding ground

[Daniel]

I would 100% plant it in the ground. The top of the root ball looks quite dry, Trachycarpus Fortunei love water. I would only protect it if it is forecast to go below 16F.

[ZPalms]

Just now, Daniel said:

I would 100% plant it in the ground. The top of the root ball looks quite dry, Trachycarpus Fortunei love water. I would only protect it if it is forecast to go below 16F.

I thought of planting it and then building a temporary overhead roof for it and then wrap it in christmas lights to keep it warmer at night because I feel like if I were to bring it in then nothing could take care of the scale and it would just become more yellow.

I don't water it often due to the fact this soil can get cakey but I think I may just plant it

[BeyondTheGarden]

Either way it will probably be fine.  If you can't get the scale off, I wouldn't bring it inside.  If I was going to leave it outside, I would put it in the ground, and only fully enclose it if temps drop into the teens.   An upside down trashcan would probably do just fine.  If you don't water it often, that may be contributing to the yellowing.  In my opinion, it's hard to overwater a Trachycarpus.  It's funny how many palms come from areas that are rocky and rather dry, but grown in cultivation, they do so much better with lots of rich, organic compost and water.  

Edited October 18, 2022 by Jesse PNW

[ZPalms]

1 hour ago, Jesse PNW said:

Either way it will probably be fine.  If you can't get the scale off, I wouldn't bring it inside.  If I was going to leave it outside, I would put it in the ground, and only fully enclose it if temps drop into the teens.   An upside down trashcan would probably do just fine.  If you don't water it often, that may be contributing to the yellowing.  In my opinion, it's hard to overwater a Trachycarpus.  It's funny how many palms come from areas that are rocky and rather dry, but grown in cultivation, they do so much better with lots of rich, organic compost and water.  

I changed my mind earlier and potted it up because in the spot I was going to put it in, I dug a hole and filled it with water and it was taking forever to drain and it started getting dark outside and I had nothing to amend it with, but I will be keeping it outside all winter under a screen porch and I'll wrap a towel and put Christmas lights around the pot, but I left my other trachy outside during winter in the pot and did the same thing, so I think it should be fine this winter fully outside in the pot.

I did see a bunch of roots with rot, so I snipped off a tiny bit, but nothing too crazy since I don't know how much can actually be removed, and I squirted a bottle of hydrogen randomly on the roots. I washed out all the old soil, and now it's in fresh soil with lots of organics and good drainage. I really didnt know what to do with the rotting roots, so that was the best I could do, but I saw it was working on some brand new white roots.

Edited October 18, 2022 by ZPalms