Palm ID Please?

[Plant-a-holic]

I saw these two small palm trees in a residential neighborhood and wondered if you could tell me what they were? I really like their form and they were not very large. Thanks in advance!

[Fusca]

37 minutes ago, Plant-a-holic said:

I saw these two small palm trees in a residential neighborhood and wondered if you could tell me what they were? I really like their form and they were not very large. Thanks in advance!

They're actually not palms at all despite their common name "Sago palms".  They are cycads Cycas revoluta.

[Plant-a-holic]

Wow! Thanks for the information. Are they easy to find for sale in Florida & what’s the going /fair price for them would you say? Those look like they are getting a lot of sun… do they need that full sun or would they thrive in less light?

[Merlyn]

They grow in full sun to full shade, but generally sun is better.  They grow ok in shade but flush maybe once per year or so.  Check your local FB marketplace, there are frequently ones up for sale super cheap or free, just realize that the smaller one in the picture is probably 200-300lb and the big one is probably 500+

[Plant-a-holic]

So I assume they are slow growers, then?

[D Palm]

Those are actually a good size for Sago Palms. Probably 15-25 years of age.I have a few that are 2-3 years old in pots I dug up a while back. I would give them to you but it appears by the surrounding vegetation you are in S. FL.

Big box retailer carry them, sometimes located at the “indoor” section. 

The larger sago has an older flush (evident by yellowing circle) with a new flush. Palms send out spears from the crown, cycads flush. This is a major classification difference I was not aware of either until I joined palm talk years ago. 

there’s a seedling that appears to be 1-2 years old on the ground you could take with owner permission. The ferns growing on the trunk is nice, I don’t come across that often.

I wonder if I could get a fern to attach to my Sago’s.

[Merlyn]

@Plant-a-holic yes they are very slow to gain height.  Each flush of leaves adds maybe 1 inch to the overall height, and a healthy Cycas Revoluta will do 2-3 flushes per year if well fertilized and in a sunny spot.  So roughly speaking 4-6 years per foot of trunk height.  The smaller one is probably 10-20 years old (or so) and the bigger one may well be 50 years old.  Other than a lack of fertilizer those look pretty good.  I saw one at my local Lowes last week with about 18" of trunk for $129.  Those used to go for $500 or more, before Cycad Aulacaspis Scale landed in Florida.  This pest is the reason people are giving away big ones for free you-dig-it.  I've eradicated it from my collection of Cycas, with a combination of spraying the adults off the leaves with a hose, followup with Acephate/Malathion frond spray and then a soil drench of Dinotefuran.  My neighbors across the street have several 4-6' trunk ones that are powdery white with scale.  So occasionally I get a re-infestation, probably from squirrels or birds carrying a random insect over by accident.  Here's a fact sheet on the scale: https://gardeningsolutions.ifas.ufl.edu/care/pests-and-diseases/pests/cycad-aulacapsis-scale.html

@D Palm I have a couple up front with those ferns on them.  It's not a regular Boston or Lady fern type, it's something different.  I have seen Monarch/Wart ferns on palms, it might be something like that.  I haven't tried to ID it, or "transplant" some of them from one sago to another.  But they are neat on there!

[Fusca]

12 hours ago, Plant-a-holic said:

So I assume they are slow growers, then?

Here's one I grew from a seed started in 2001!  I kept it in a container for 15 years before I finally put it in the ground.  It's been dug up and moved a few times most recently this past June.  Getting a new plant or rooting a large offset is definitely the way to go!

[Plant-a-holic]

AWESOOOOOOME!!!!!

[Plant-a-holic]

On 9/22/2022 at 12:19 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

Unless things have changed since, i don't remember there being any  "good" nurseries that far north...  Clearwater and St. Pete have a few though. Can't remember what was in Tampa off hand..

I usually made regular trips south to Sarasota ( when i lived in Clearwater ) or South FL ( when i lived in Bradenton ), and attended yearly plant sales like Green Thumb Fest ( St. Pete, in the Spring ) or the USF sales ( Spring and Fall ) to get stuff no one sold locally.

 

13 hours ago, D Palm said:

Those are actually a good size for Sago Palms. Probably 15-25 years of age.I have a few that are 2-3 years old in pots I dug up a while back. I would give them to you but it appears by the surrounding vegetation you are in S. FL.

Big box retailer carry them, sometimes located at the “indoor” section. 

The larger sago has an older flush (evident by yellowing circle) with a new flush. Palms send out spears from the crown, cycads flush. This is a major classification difference I was not aware of either until I joined palm talk years ago. 

there’s a seedling that appears to be 1-2 years old on the ground you could take with owner permission. The ferns growing on the trunk is nice, I don’t come across that often.

I wonder if I could get a fern to attach to my Sago’s.

Thanks to all for the great replies! Now that I look at the answers… I realize that I had a cycad  had like that… that was huge when I bought our house over 21 years ago… They put it in a small area and it grew huge but never formed a trunk like that? Maybe it was different variety of sago palm? Anyhow ours never looked that good & never had a trunk like that.? We finally had to remove it because it was in the way.

[Merlyn]

@Plant-a-holic there are hundreds of Cycas species, and probably hundreds more that haven't been described.  But there are only a few common ones in Florida.  Cycas Revoluta is the standard "sago palm" or "King Sago."  A slightly bigger version is Cycas Taitungensis, the "Emporer Sago" or "Prince Sago."  It looks about the same but is around twice the overall diameter.  In the 1990s a whole ton of Cycas Thouarsii and related species were brought in as "Cycas Circinalis" or "Queen Sago."  Later people figured out that Circinalis is a different species, but the name sort of stuck.  All of them will eventually grow into trunking tree-sized plants.  But if they are in shade they barely grow.  I have a Revoluta that was planted by the previous owners when they built the house. It was in dense shade for ~35 years and only has ~1 foot of trunk...about the size of Fusca's plant.

[Looking Glass]

7 hours ago, Merlyn said:

@Plant-a-holic yes they are very slow to gain height.  Each flush of leaves adds maybe 1 inch to the overall height, and a healthy Cycas Revoluta will do 2-3 flushes per year if well fertilized and in a sunny spot.  So roughly speaking 4-6 years per foot of trunk height.  The smaller one is probably 10-20 years old (or so) and the bigger one may well be 50 years old.  Other than a lack of fertilizer those look pretty good.  I saw one at my local Lowes last week with about 18" of trunk for $129.  Those used to go for $500 or more, before Cycad Aulacaspis Scale landed in Florida.  This pest is the reason people are giving away big ones for free you-dig-it.  I've eradicated it from my collection of Cycas, with a combination of spraying the adults off the leaves with a hose, followup with Acephate/Malathion frond spray and then a soil drench of Dinotefuran.  My neighbors across the street have several 4-6' trunk ones that are powdery white with scale.  So occasionally I get a re-infestation, probably from squirrels or birds carrying a random insect over by accident.  Here's a fact sheet on the scale: https://gardeningsolutions.ifas.ufl.edu/care/pests-and-diseases/pests/cycad-aulacapsis-scale.html

@D Palm I have a couple up front with those ferns on them.  It's not a regular Boston or Lady fern type, it's something different.  I have seen Monarch/Wart ferns on palms, it might be something like that.  I haven't tried to ID it, or "transplant" some of them from one sago to another.  But they are neat on there!

Man, I had a couple of these in pots.   They get absolutely hammered by scale here in short order.  It’s crazy.   Ended up getting rid of them.   Too much for me.  There are still a few big Sagos in the neighborhood here, but they must have very dedicated owners.   Other cycad varieties don’t seem to get this, or at least not as bad. 

[Plant-a-holic]

Wow!! Yes , the one we had was huge…but never recall a trunk… the just loved the one I saw in the pics I posted!

[Plant-a-holic]

Thanks again to all … I love this opportunity to learn from the plant community!

[D Palm]

The one on the west facing side of my house I removed was about the same height as the small one in the photo. It was around 18-22 years old but much more wider (produced male pollinators). 
@Merlyni wish a stag horn fern could grow (or similar) in our climate. My neighbor built a greenhouse just for her stag horn in the winter…it’s massive. She hangs it under a live oak until winter arrive. I may grab some random ferns growing on the ground in the woods and stuff it around the trunk. Fingers-crossed.

[Merlyn]

@D Palmhere's the ferns that grow on sagos around here.  I'm not sure exactly what they are, it does kind of look like an immature Boston fern.  This was from a local apartment complex.  You can see the white dots of scale on the underside of the leaflets.  This, of course, reminds me that I need to go check the leaves on my collection.  My neighbor's 6' tall trunking sagos all look like they are covered in snow...

[D Palm]

@Merlyn Beautiful! My sagos get a scale from time to time on the underside as well. Common eyes can’t see it so I stopped treating them years ago.  Once a new flush is setting in, I just prune the old scaly flush off. Takes 6-12 months to reappear on new flush. 
 

I will do some research on how to get the ferns to attach. My sagos are in full blown sun…so no mold issues as the ones above. May create a less ideal environment with the full sun for ferns to grow underneath. 

[Merlyn]

@D PalmI pruned off the old fronds on this one and found a couple of scraggly ferns.  These might be the Wart Fern / Monarch Fern (Microsorum scolopendria).  I dug this one up from a friend's yard who was tired of getting stabbed while mowing.  He lives up towards Ocala, in a solid 9a area.  It had these on the trunk at the time, they don't like the sun but might be hardy enough for you.  I just overtrimmed the heck out of this one because it was growing a ton of seeds that I didn't want: