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Peachs
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It does seem a bit pricey to me. Although it does also look like a pretty nice Butia x Syagrus though, so maybe it is worth it. We have a saying over here - ‘beggars can’t be choosers’. It is what it is. I can see quite a bit of Syagrus in that, but maybe get some other folks opinions.

We can’t even import those sort of things into the UK. They won’t ship anything from Spain, Italy, USA etc due to the need for a 2 year quarantine and phytosanitary documents. There is so much red tape, especially after Brexit. I can only really go via the seed route, if I can even obtain seeds. 

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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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2 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

It does seem a bit pricey to me. Although it does also look like a pretty nice Butia x Syagrus though, so maybe it is worth it. We have a saying over here - ‘beggars can’t be choosers’. It is what it is. I can see quite a bit of Syagrus in that, but maybe get some other folks opinions.

We can’t even import those sort of things into the UK. They won’t ship anything from Spain, Italy, USA etc due to the need for a 2 year quarantine and phytosanitary documents. There is so much red tape, especially after Brexit. I can only really go via the seed route, if I can even obtain seeds. 

Thank you. Do you see part of Butia Capitata too?

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7 minutes ago, Peachs said:

Thank you. Do you see part of Butia Capitata too?

Yeah I would say that I can see both Butia and Syagrus in that cross to be fair. The trunk looks like my Syagrus and the fronds look like my Butia Odorata. How tall is it exactly? It looks like a nice palm, but I’m not sure if it is worth as much as you say. If you are sourcing that in Spain it surely wouldn’t cost you $200?

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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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3 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

Yeah I would say that I can see both Butia and Syagrus in that cross to be fair. The trunk looks like my Syagrus and the fronds look like my Butia Odorata. How tall is it exactly? It looks like a nice palm, but I’m not sure if it is worth as much as you say. If you are sourcing that in Spain it surely wouldn’t cost you $200?

Total height over 150cm. Trunk 30cm. Pot of 35 liters. Price 170€ with shipping.

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1 hour ago, UK_Palms said:

It does seem a bit pricey to me. Although it does also look like a pretty nice Butia x Syagrus though, so maybe it is worth it. We have a saying over here - ‘beggars can’t be choosers’. It is what it is. I can see quite a bit of Syagrus in that, but maybe get some other folks opinions.

We can’t even import those sort of things into the UK. They won’t ship anything from Spain, Italy, USA etc due to the need for a 2 year quarantine and phytosanitary documents. There is so much red tape, especially after Brexit. I can only really go via the seed route, if I can even obtain seeds. 

There are a few that ship to the UK with phytosanitary certificates  but not many because of the restrictions. Private plant nurseries in the uk sometimes have hard to get things that aren't listed for sale on their websites. 

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1 minute ago, Foxpalms said:

There are a few that ship to the UK with phytosanitary certificates  but not many because of the restrictions. Private plant nurseries in the uk sometimes have hard to get things that aren't listed for sale on their websites. 

The one I ordered from Spain came with a phytosanitary certificate but it still got impounded by UK customs. The French palm nurseries stopped shipping to the UK 2 years ago. I had a big order with a Jubaea x Syagrus hybrid cancelled by one of them. Really frustrating. Stock is so low for many palms over here that we have to pay 2-3 x the going rate. That Mule palm that @Peachs posted would cost us at least $400 here in the UK, if it was even available. Ever wondered why they don’t ship big Robusta’s in for street plantings in London? We only get small ones. Other companies in Europe won’t send them due to quarantine and additional costs. Very frustrating for the UK palm scene.

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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39 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

The one I ordered from Spain came with a phytosanitary certificate but it still got impounded by UK customs. The French palm nurseries stopped shipping to the UK 2 years ago. I had a big order with a Jubaea x Syagrus hybrid cancelled by one of them. Really frustrating. Stock is so low for many palms over here that we have to pay 2-3 x the going rate. That Mule palm that @Peachs posted would cost us at least $400 here in the UK, if it was even available. Ever wondered why they don’t ship big Robusta’s in for street plantings in London? We only get small ones. Other companies in Europe won’t send them due to quarantine and additional costs. Very frustrating for the UK palm scene.

I think you have to pre notify now and have them inspected. Then they will check the documents and you have to organise an inspection of the plants. It's possible but complicated. Because sellers also have to rely on people in the UK doing all of that which most people just want to order someone and have it arrive, most don't ship here. Also as you mentioned the additional costs aren't worth it for most sellers. The ones normally shipped here are only from wholesale companies to UK businesses where to they can pretty much gaurentree both sides will provide the correct documents and go through the process correctly. The majority of UK plant businesses won't get in the really tropical or rare palms as the wholesale companies don't normally have them and only a small amount of people in the UK will want to buy one (palm collectors). There are some large palms for sale in the UK I've seen 4m Washingtonia for sale but are obviously twice the price of the ones for sale in Spain.  eBay and Facebook is also pretty good for palms in the UK quite a few people grow the rarer ones from seed and sell them as seedlings and on Facebook you can find larger palms. If you type syagrus, archontophoenix and Washingtonia onto both some of the sellers selling those have a good selection of palms.

@UK_Palmshere's some 

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Screenshot_20220920-145343477 (1).jpg

Edited by Foxpalms
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@Foxpalms Bloody hell thats £1,200 for what looks like a 7-8 foot Washintonia with all fronds cut off. That’s awful. Nobody with any common sense is going to pay that, especially when 2-3 foot washies can grow to be 30 foot plus within 10 years in London. Why waste £1,200 when you can get a smaller one for £30-40 and just wait a decade. That is the problem though, we are left waiting for them to grow here in the UK.

I just wish the councils imported 20-25 footer Robusta’s from Spain (Valencia region) to plant in central London especially. Like they should do bulk orders and bring 20+ big Robusta’s across by boat from Spain, but UK customs won’t allow it. Or Spanish companies won’t do it because of UK quarantine and paperwork issues. We only get small palms here pretty much, so now we are waiting ages for our British ‘skydusters’. I suppose all the patience required makes them even more special in London and southern England.

I wish they would line the river Thames with big ones near Big Ben. I mean that big Robusta by the pool in central London was planted as a tiny little 1 foot seedling in 2008. Now look at it. The pictures are 2-3 years old now as well. It’s at least 5-6 foot bigger and flowering too now. Both Robusta’s and Filifera’s are rockets in London, but the palm import ban is really making it difficult and not allowing us to plant big ones.

47EE5CE2-5F9A-4DDD-B980-E702C34E4EC6.jpeg.111eca61aac90982e925a34cb59d7b29.jpeg

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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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I Think it's just the photo just isn't that good but like you said 10 years and it will be bigger than that anyway.10 years from now there should easily be a couple hundred 20ft+ Washingtonia in London and the already large ones could easily be approaching 40 50ft then. 3ft a year is about how fast they grow here. Washingtonia are better for street plantings in London than the CIDP because it's much more compact.  738043572_Screenshot_20220920-155126031(1).thumb.jpg.bff4245b659e0c5a8ae9335ddd1dad11.jpg

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A Mule Palm costs twice as much as a Brahea Edulis, with the same pot size. Which one do you choose and why? Brahea Edulis looks too much like a Washingtonia and may be too slow, Mule palm too expensive and may suffer more cold damage.

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9 minutes ago, Peachs said:

A Mule Palm costs twice as much as a Brahea Edulis, with the same pot size. Which one do you choose and why? Brahea Edulis looks too much like a Washingtonia and may be too slow, Mule palm too expensive and may suffer more cold damage.

I would probably go with the Mule palm to be honest. The one you posted is pretty nice. I want that one here in England, but I can’t get it obviously. The only issue is whether it will definitely survive long-term there in your climate. What’s the lowest temperature you have experienced in the past decade (10 years) there? I think -10C will kill Mule palms with snow too, especially if there is bad freezes in back to back years. As long as you haven’t had anything like -12C there in recent years, I would get the Mule palm.

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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4 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

I would probably go with the Mule palm to be honest. The one you posted is pretty nice. I want that one here in England, but I can’t get it obviously. The only issue is whether it will definitely survive long-term there in your climate. What’s the lowest temperature you have experienced in the past decade (10 years) there? I think -10C will kill Mule palms with snow too, especially if there is bad freezes in back to back years. As long as you haven’t had anything like -12C there in recent years, I would get the Mule palm.

I remember -8°, snow is very difficult and rare in my location. And very little humidity. The usual in January is -6° some consecutive nights as a minimum. By day it recovers up to +10°C.

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5 minutes ago, Peachs said:

I remember -8°, snow is very difficult and rare in my location. And very little humidity. The usual in January is -6° some consecutive nights as a minimum. By day it recovers up to +10°C.

That doesn’t sound too bad, especially if it is a dry cold with no snow or ice. Good daytime temperature recovery as well always helps. A mule should do okay for you I think, providing you don’t get a freak prolonged cold snap. You get decent sunshine there too.

Usually when we get it ‘cold’ over here in winter it is also dry too, so snow is fairly rare for us in southern England. The last proper snowfall for me was Feb 2018. When it’s mild in winter (which it usually is) it is pretty wet here. You’re pretty cold overall though as central London doesn’t really drop below 0C most winters and that is at 51N.

A mule should be okay for you though I think. That one you posted looks nice so I would buy it. Again I wish I could buy one like that here. Also if you do get any severe freezes while the Mule is smaller, you can obviously protect it. Did the Mule palms survive the 2021 freeze in Madrid?

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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14 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

That doesn’t sound too bad, especially if it is a dry cold with no snow or ice. Good daytime temperature recovery as well always helps. A mule should do okay for you I think, providing you don’t get a freak prolonged cold snap. You get decent sunshine there too.

Usually when we get it ‘cold’ over here in winter it is also dry too, so snow is fairly rare for us in southern England. The last proper snowfall for me was Feb 2018. When it’s mild in winter (which it usually is) it is pretty wet here. You’re pretty cold overall though as central London doesn’t really drop below 0C most winters and that is at 51N.

A mule should be okay for you though I think. That one you posted looks nice so I would buy it. Again I wish I could buy one like that here. Also if you do get any severe freezes while the Mule is smaller, you can obviously protect it. Did the Mule palms survive the 2021 freeze in Madrid?

I don't know anyone in Madrid with a Mule palm, actually most people have only the usual palms: C. Humilos, Washingtonia and Phoenix. In your case, I would import the seeds from the USA, it would be the easiest thing to do.

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1 hour ago, UK_Palms said:

That doesn’t sound too bad, especially if it is a dry cold with no snow or ice. Good daytime temperature recovery as well always helps. A mule should do okay for you I think, providing you don’t get a freak prolonged cold snap. You get decent sunshine there too.

Usually when we get it ‘cold’ over here in winter it is also dry too, so snow is fairly rare for us in southern England. The last proper snowfall for me was Feb 2018. When it’s mild in winter (which it usually is) it is pretty wet here. You’re pretty cold overall though as central London doesn’t really drop below 0C most winters and that is at 51N.

A mule should be okay for you though I think. That one you posted looks nice so I would buy it. Again I wish I could buy one like that here. Also if you do get any severe freezes while the Mule is smaller, you can obviously protect it. Did the Mule palms survive the 2021 freeze in Madrid?

By the way, is it possible to transplant now? Or better to wait until spring? In a month here it starts to be -1° (end of October).

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2 hours ago, Peachs said:

I don't know anyone in Madrid with a Mule palm, actually most people have only the usual palms: C. Humilos, Washingtonia and Phoenix. In your case, I would import the seeds from the USA, it would be the easiest thing to do.

Yeah, seeds is probably my best bet. Unless I can source a small specimen in the next few months. I have been looking for Jubaea x Syagrus for 3-4 years now. The only Mule/Butyagrus I have seen were big £700+ imports that probably went to some of the public exotic gardens I have visited this year. There probably are some Mule palms in Madrid, unless the 2021 freeze knocked them out.

 

1 hour ago, Peachs said:

By the way, is it possible to transplant now? Or better to wait until spring? In a month here it starts to be -1° (end of October).

It depends. The ground temperature will be pretty warm still off the back of summer, so planting now will be okay even if there are a few frosts next month and going into winter. I have transplanted Chamaerops, Trachycarpus, CIDP, Theophrasti etc to the ground in middle of January here due to cold snaps, since they were sitting in big pots above ground. You don’t want potted palms with roots sitting above ground level in winter really, especially during cold snaps. Frozen roots are never good. So either plant it now or keep it inside for 6-7 months until late spring. You could move it outdoors on the mild, sunny days and then plant out in May.

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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33 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

Yeah, seeds is probably my best bet. Unless I can source a small specimen in the next few months. I have been looking for Jubaea x Syagrus for 3-4 years now. The only Mule/Butyagrus I have seen were big £700+ imports that probably went to some of the public exotic gardens I have visited this year. There probably are some Mule palms in Madrid, unless the 2021 freeze knocked them out.

 

It depends. The ground temperature will be pretty warm still off the back of summer, so planting now will be okay even if there are a few frosts next month and going into winter. I have transplanted Chamaerops, Trachycarpus, CIDP, Theophrasti etc to the ground in middle of January here due to cold snaps, since they were sitting in big pots above ground. You don’t want potted palms with roots sitting above ground level in winter really, especially during cold snaps. Frozen roots are never good. So either plant it now or keep it inside for 6-7 months until late spring. You could move it outdoors on the mild, sunny days and then plant out in May.

I've planted a syagrus romanzoffianana in mid October before and had it survive so a mule palm planted around now should be fine in Spain.  Did your phoenix theophrasti grow after being transplanted in January or go dormant till spring the Queen palms normally grow slowly in autumn slowing down to going dormant mid winter then they start growing again at the end of march. 

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On 9/20/2022 at 10:55 PM, UK_Palms said:

Yeah, seeds is probably my best bet. Unless I can source a small specimen in the next few months. I have been looking for Jubaea x Syagrus for 3-4 years now. The only Mule/Butyagrus I have seen were big £700+ imports that probably went to some of the public exotic gardens I have visited this year. There probably are some Mule palms in Madrid, unless the 2021 freeze knocked them out.

 

It depends. The ground temperature will be pretty warm still off the back of summer, so planting now will be okay even if there are a few frosts next month and going into winter. I have transplanted Chamaerops, Trachycarpus, CIDP, Theophrasti etc to the ground in middle of January here due to cold snaps, since they were sitting in big pots above ground. You don’t want potted palms with roots sitting above ground level in winter really, especially during cold snaps. Frozen roots are never good. So either plant it now or keep it inside for 6-7 months until late spring. You could move it outdoors on the mild, sunny days and then plant out in May.


 

Finally I think I'm going to plant this one, it's free because I already have it in a pot although it's much smaller. What do you think? Too small to plant in soil? Would you invest 175€ in the one in the first photo? Thank you.

 

37717-CBB-5-F1-C-42-B7-9-B97-85-BCA19-EB

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8 hours ago, Peachs said:


 

Finally I think I'm going to plant this one, it's free because I already have it in a pot although it's much smaller. What do you think? Too small to plant in soil? Would you invest 175€ in the one in the first photo? Thank you.

 

37717-CBB-5-F1-C-42-B7-9-B97-85-BCA19-EB

 

Apologies for the late reply. I was out all day today hunting down big Washingtonia in London. Wait until you see that thread haha.

At this point, I would maybe leave your one for now and plant it in May 2023. You probably should have planted it in spring, like 5 months ago. If you do end up buying the bigger one, then I would be more inclined to plant that one now, rather than the smaller one. Otherwise maybe just hold off planting anything until the spring, especially the small one.

If I knew you already had another Butyagrus / Mule palm (I think that is a Mule too, right?)... then I would be less inclined to spend another 175 Euros on a second one. However that other one is also very nice. I would probably buy that one as well, but I may be biased in saying that because I don't have any Mules myself and it is very hard to get them here.

Do what your heart tells you to do. If you want to buy the bigger one, buy it. Just don't plant that small one for another 7 months. Let it get a bit bigger and avoid this coming winter. I'm not a huge advocate of autumn plant outs since it won't really grow much over the next 6 months and you don't want to unnecessarily risk it this winter.

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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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9 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

 

Apologies for the late reply. I was out all day today hunting down big Washingtonia in London. Wait until you see that thread haha.

At this point, I would maybe leave your one for now and plant it in May 2023. You probably should have planted it in spring, like 5 months ago. If you do end up buying the bigger one, then I would be more inclined to plant that one now, rather than the smaller one. Otherwise maybe just hold off planting anything until the spring, especially the small one.

If I knew you already had another Butyagrus / Mule palm (I think that is a Mule too, right?)... then I would be less inclined to spend another 175 Euros on a second one. However that other one is also very nice. I would probably buy that one as well, but I may be biased in saying that because I don't have any Mules myself and it is very hard to get them here.

Do what your heart tells you to do. If you want to buy the bigger one, buy it. Just don't plant that small one for another 7 months. Let it get a bit bigger and avoid this coming winter. I'm not a huge advocate of autumn plant outs since it won't really grow much over the next 6 months and you don't want to unnecessarily risk it this winter.

I bet on this palm tree, I hope it survives! It broke some roots when it was taken out of the pot.


When November starts, I will protect it with a cover.

Thanks!!!

D4-A88-E95-2-A71-4-A98-BF17-81-B4446-C7-
FF23-C763-F2-EB-42-A7-8125-F659-B6-D1-C9
B49799-EA-2675-4-F11-B305-6-D4-B7-B5437-
7-BC82654-77-FB-4503-853-E-AFDE53-C41-D1
 

 

 

 

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@Peachs With some winter protection it should be fine. At least the ground is still quite warm right now, which may mitigate any root damage as it settles in.

Good luck with it and keep us updated over the coming months. Keep it well watered to begin with if it has suffered a bit of root damage but stop watering by November.

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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37 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

@Peachs With some winter protection it should be fine. At least the ground is still quite warm right now, which may mitigate any root damage as it settles in.

Good luck with it and keep us updated over the coming months. Keep it well watered to begin with if it has suffered a bit of root damage but stop watering by November.

Thank you very much for everything. I will update in the coming months! 

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