3 palms Filifera or Robusta? Or hybrids plz help?

[Ltapia]

#1#1#2#2#3#3

[Las Palmas Norte]

The more red (cinnamon), the more robusta. Hybrids by my estimation, Certainly the top one pictured.

[jwitt]

Hydrid,  leaning filifera. 

Pics one and two is good for the base coloring and New Mexico will make the coloring lessen.  

I would happily plant em!

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by jwitt

[Ltapia]

44 minutes ago, jwitt said:

Hydrid,  leaning filifera. 

Pics one and two is good for the base coloring and New Mexico will make the coloring lessen.  

I would happily plant em!

 

U think they will survive Albuquerque planted ?

[Collectorpalms]

All hybrids. The first is a hybrid with Filifera dominant the second two are robusta dominant, very little Filifera. I’d only plant the first. 

If you didn’t grow them from seed yourself, always consider them all hybrids. 

attached is a -6F Washingtonia survivor. 

 

[Ltapia]

16 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

All hybrids. The first is a hybrid with Filifera dominant the second two are robusta dominant, very little Filifera. I’d only plant the first. 

If you didn’t grow them from seed yourself, always consider them all hybrids. 

attached is a -6F Washingtonia survivor. 

 

Thanks I will be planting the first one for sure nice palm btw!

[DreaminAboutPalms]

2 hours ago, Ltapia said:

U think they will survive Albuquerque planted ?

Washingtonias are a crap shoot and you really can't predict hardiness of hybrids, I think its best to plant multiple and see how they handle a winter.

2 at least are hybrids but all of those have the deeply cut fronds and stiff frond structure which are more filifera traits, so worth planting a few of them 

[jwitt]

4 hours ago, Ltapia said:

U think they will survive Albuquerque planted ?

The first two pics. I think are the same palm. Those are the one(s) I would choose. 

If growing in Albuquerque, plant late Feb/early March.  Put a large 12"(or couple) or larger rock(s) near the trunk. 

If you live west of Louisiana you have better odds.

Trunked hybrids have survived multiple below zero events here, 2+ feet of snow, etc.

I use rocks when young for passive protection.  

stop watering ballon fiesta and don't resume until spear moves(grows) usually  Feb/April(depending on locale). Your wasting water.

I do brush snow off.  

it will get hardier as it trunks. 

Nothing wrong with protection, it's just something I don't do.

3 years til full speed.

hope and pray.

 

And good luck!

 

Last week's pic. 9 years from seed

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by jwitt
Corrected pic date

[Collectorpalms]

1 hour ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

Washingtonias are a crap shoot and you really can't predict hardiness of hybrids, I think its best to plant multiple and see how they handle a winter.

2 at least are hybrids but all of those have the deeply cut fronds and stiff frond structure which are more filifera traits, so worth planting a few of them 

Survivors off my palms that self seeded in my yard would appear to be Very Filiforous with all the Filements looking down. I just attribute to the hot dry conditions this year. Plenty of maroon down at soil line, where they should lime green with sparse thorn of Candy corn orange. 

[Ltapia]

14 minutes ago, jwitt said:

The first two pics. I think are the same palm. Those are the one(s) I would choose. 

If growing in Albuquerque, plant late Feb/early March.  Put a large 12"(or couple) or larger rock(s) near the trunk. 

If you live west of Louisiana you have better odds.

Trunked hybrids have survived multiple below zero events here, 2+ feet of snow, etc.

I use rocks when young for passive protection.  

stop watering ballon fiesta and don't resume until spear moves(grows) usually  Feb/April(depending on locale). Your wasting water.

I do brush snow off.  

it will get hardier as it trunks. 

Nothing wrong with protection, it's just something I don't do.

3 years til full speed.

hope and pray.

 

And good luck!

 

Last week's pic. 9 years from seed

 

Ok gotcha is this a hybrid or filifera really nice !

I just got a bunch of 100% filifera seeds too !

[Collectorpalms]

I am selling Filifera from Habitat from California. Filifera survivir in North and Central Texas, and assumed Hybrids in North Central Texas. All basically look the same as seedlings. So very little Robusta even in the Hybrids, if al all. 

[Collectorpalms]

2 minutes ago, Ltapia said:

Ok gotcha is this a hybrid or filifera really nice !

I just got a bunch of 100% filifera seeds too !

Typically they are sticky and flack when ripe. They won’t be green or yellow. 

[Ltapia]

Just now, Collectorpalms said:

Typically they are sticky and flack when ripe. They won’t be green or yellow. 

 

Just now, Collectorpalms said:

Typically they are sticky and flack when ripe. They won’t be green or yellow. 

These were ripe just need to dry out 

[Collectorpalms]

What is the color of the seed and how firm is it?

[jwitt]

Provenance is very important. I forgot to mention that. Maybe the most....

And assured filifera outside the native groves are found in very few places.  Very, very few.  North Texas being one currently for a year or more.  Hopefully here shortly. 

Seed that I have picked has been grayish black. 

I consider anyplace with a blooming age robusta within a mile or two not pure when picking filifera seed. . Just me. 

Filifera enough for me, but truthfully a hybrid. . This is the mother plant. I picked the seeds after 2011 in Cleburne Tx after the robusta we're killed in the area. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by jwitt
Added pic

[Ltapia]

2 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

What is the color of the seed and how firm is it?

Golden pretty soft 

[Collectorpalms]

Fully ripe Washingtonia, when I collect them, 

[Ltapia]

2 minutes ago, jwitt said:

Provenance is very important. I forgot to mention that. Maybe the most....

And assured filifera outside the native groves are found in very few places.  Very, very few.  North Texas being one currently for a year or more.  Hopefully here shortly. 

Seed that I have picked has been grayish black. 

I consider anyplace with a blooming age robusta within a mile or two not pure when picking filifera seed. . Just me. 

What is your palm filifera or hybrid ?

[Ltapia]

1 minute ago, Collectorpalms said:

Fully ripe Washingtonia, when I collect them, 

Yeah these are too fresh still 

[jwitt]

9 minutes ago, Ltapia said:

Yeah these are too fresh still 

Oct/Dec is when I picked. Forgot about the sticky.  

Collecterpalms, how do we contact you for seeds. And are they this or last year's seeds?

 

 

[Collectorpalms]

24 minutes ago, Ltapia said:

Yeah these are too fresh still 

These are ultimate fresh, to the point they fall off the stalk. The inner seeds are hard as granite. Crack a tooth if you bit one. 

[Collectorpalms]

14 minutes ago, jwitt said:

Oct/Dec is when I picked. Forgot about the sticky.  

Collecterpalms, how do we contact you for seeds. And are they this or last year's seeds?

 

 

Only have seeds this year.
I germinated last falls.

is the Cleborne, Tx Washingtonia long gone? If my memory recalls it may be. Do you Recall the cross streets?  

[jwitt]

26 minutes ago, Ltapia said:

What is your palm filifera or hybrid ?

Well I don't know who the daddy is. But he wasn't skinny Trunked if from the area. Looking at the Mom, she looks filifera. So I would say filifera. 

I look at my palm and  there is very subtle darkening on the base of the older leaves. It has a very strong inverted v trunk base that has about doubled in with the last year.  

Its already fat Trunked.  

I call it a slightly tainted filifera. I usually leave the tainted part out.

Edited September 20, 2022 by jwitt

[Collectorpalms]

3 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

All hybrids. The first is a hybrid with Filifera dominant the second two are robusta dominant, very little Filifera. I’d only plant the first. 

If you didn’t grow them from seed yourself, always consider them all hybrids. 

attached is a -6F Washingtonia survivor. 

 

Momma, by far the fattest one I have seen. It’s a bit dwarfed by building but I bet diameter is 36 inches plus. I assume hotel windows are 36-40 inches wide. 

[jwitt]

3 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

Only have seeds this year.
I germinated last falls.

is the Cleborne, Tx Washingtonis one loneg gone? If my memory recalls it may be. Do you Recall the cross streets?  

There was three or four. They were cut down as they were growing into the power lines.  

On main street(SR171?) ten(?) blocks north of  Henderson on the east side. Pulido's(Mexican) restaurant or something. 

[Collectorpalms]

This one also survived -6 and hanging on. 

[jwitt]

I said pics one and 2.  I did mean or notice the numbers. Palm(s) in the square pot.

Looked a third time.  First two pics labelled #1(square pot in the first 2 pics) 

Good night. 

 

Collecterpalms, nice palms.  You look at that one and wonder how its hanging on?  I believe some of the species have a like coma/ hibernation to extreme stress. Just amazing how they hang on and some just exceeding late recovery.  Incredible!

Edited September 20, 2022 by jwitt

[DreaminAboutPalms]

8 hours ago, jwitt said:

I said pics one and 2.  I did mean or notice the numbers. Palm(s) in the square pot.

Looked a third time.  First two pics labelled #1(square pot in the first 2 pics) 

Good night. 

 

Collecterpalms, nice palms.  You look at that one and wonder how its hanging on?  I believe some of the species have a like coma/ hibernation to extreme stress. Just amazing how they hang on and some just exceeding late recovery.  Incredible!

It makes me think that more could have survived if they didn't get removed so quick, I posted one in a Washingtonia in palmagaeddon last week that didn't push any green at all last year and then started coming back this spring finally. 

I know of a few more in Austin that took a full year to push out anything except a deformed spear and now have full crowns 

 

 

[jwitt]

14 minutes ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

It makes me think that more could have survived if they didn't get removed so quick, I posted one in a Washingtonia in palmagaeddon last week that didn't push any green at all last year and then started coming back this spring finally. 

I know of a few more in Austin that took a full year to push out anything except a deformed spear and now have full crowns 

 

 

Just incredible! I saw one here(2011)not show any green until July 4 and thought that was amazing. 

Texas blew that out of the water!

I think filifera have an ability to "hibernate" and we have only scratched the surface.

[jwitt]

When I say I use passive protection with rocks, this is what I mean.  I remove the rocks as they trunk.  Seeded in place in 2014/2013.

Pics are from 3/2016.

Third pic is same day, before trimming

Cleburne Tx seed

 

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by jwitt
Added pic

[jwitt]

13 hours ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

It makes me think that more could have survived if they didn't get removed so quick, I posted one in a Washingtonia in palmagaeddon last week that didn't push any green at all last year and then started coming back this spring finally. 

I know of a few more in Austin that took a full year to push out anything except a deformed spear and now have full crowns 

 

 

Had a couple probably 30' trachy at the Hilton here in 3/2011.  In April or may  they were in full bloom with no leaves.  Alien looking.  Month or 2 later, they were gone.

[Ltapia]

On 9/19/2022 at 9:55 PM, jwitt said:

Provenance is very important. I forgot to mention that. Maybe the most....

And assured filifera outside the native groves are found in very few places.  Very, very few.  North Texas being one currently for a year or more.  Hopefully here shortly. 

Seed that I have picked has been grayish black. 

I consider anyplace with a blooming age robusta within a mile or two not pure when picking filifera seed. . Just me. 

Filifera enough for me, but truthfully a hybrid. . This is the mother plant. I picked the seeds after 2011 in Cleburne Tx after the robusta we're killed in the area. 

Your palm looks good how often do you water it ?

[Ltapia]

1 hour ago, jwitt said:

When I say I use passive protection with rocks, this is what I mean.  I remove the rocks as they trunk.  Seeded in place in 2014/2013.

Pics are from 3/2016.

Third pic is same day, before trimming

Cleburne Tx seed

 

 

 

 

Is this the same filifera you first posted the big one is it multi trunked ? And also the rocks they help with wind protection ?

Edited September 21, 2022 by Ltapia

[jwitt]

12 minutes ago, Ltapia said:

Your palm looks good how often do you water it ?

I might have watered it in June or July with a hose.

My trachy has not been hand watered in years.

Call me lazy!

[jwitt]

17 minutes ago, Ltapia said:

Is this the same filifera you first posted the big one is it multi trunked ? And also the rocks they help with wind protection ?

Not understanding the first question, sorry.

 

Rocks not for wind, but for releasing heat at night, creating mass to temper large temp drops.  Our zonal cold is usually the calm still air radiational stuff. Our arctic palm killing cold is brought with east winds thru and over the Sandias. Hence the east of Louisiana (Blvd) comment. Unless in the wind shadow(westsidenorth of central roughly). It disappears again approaching bernalillo.  So, because of my location, wind is of minimal concern.

Santa Ana pueblo was doing the same thing(using rocks) to grow cotton in a 160 day growing season when the Spanish arrived in the early 1500's six miles up the road.  I personally believe the cotton clothed tribe may be partly why Coronado wintered with them.  Just my thoughts...

Sealed water is even more effective than rocks due to latent heat.

 

 

[Ltapia]

9 hours ago, jwitt said:

Not understanding the first question, sorry.

 

Rocks not for wind, but for releasing heat at night, creating mass to temper large temp drops.  Our zonal cold is usually the calm still air radiational stuff. Our arctic palm killing cold is brought with east winds thru and over the Sandias. Hence the east of Louisiana (Blvd) comment. Unless in the wind shadow(westsidenorth of central roughly). It disappears again approaching bernalillo.  So, because of my location, wind is of minimal concern.

Santa Ana pueblo was doing the same thing(using rocks) to grow cotton in a 160 day growing season when the Spanish arrived in the early 1500's six miles up the road.  I personally believe the cotton clothed tribe may be partly why Coronado wintered with them.  Just my thoughts...

Sealed water is even more effective than rocks due to latent heat.

 

 

Nice man i get you now I live off unser close to Rio rancho I have trachys planted so I will try this I will probably wait till next year in the spring to plant the palms I pictured in the post and with those I will put rocks as well . 

[jwitt]

39 minutes ago, Ltapia said:

Nice man i get you now I live off unser close to Rio rancho I have trachys planted so I will try this I will probably wait till next year in the spring to plant the palms I pictured in the post and with those I will put rocks as well . 

Keep us updated. 

Make observations this winter in your yard for microclimates, where snow melts fastest, weeds remain green/growing, that sort of thing. 

Personally I have had more mistakes to learn from than successes.  Be careful and remember that your taking advice from what really amounts to a palm serial killer!

[Ltapia]

38 minutes ago, jwitt said:

Keep us updated. 

Make observations this winter in your yard for microclimates, where snow melts fastest, weeds remain green/growing, that sort of thing. 

Personally I have had more mistakes to learn from than successes.  Be careful and remember that your taking advice from what really amounts to a palm serial killer!

Haha 😂 lmao yeah for sure don’t you have a Mediterranean and trachy as well how’s that doing ?and I will update for sure 

3- hybrid /filifera 

3- trachys 

1- Mediterranean 

1-robusta

[jwitt]

My trachy and med survived the -10f in 2011.  I did move my med in 2012 as we had zero again the winter after 2011.  It is against my south wall and can be seen to the right in my filifera seedling pics from 2016. 

First pic-couple weeks ago 

third and fourth-4/22 after 7f in Feb 

fourth pic- shows 2011 temps.  Don't succumb to the totally false narrative of short or dry freeze! 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by jwitt

[Ltapia]

9 hours ago, jwitt said:

My trachy and med survived the -10f in 2011.  I did move my med in 2012 as we had zero again the winter after 2011.  It is against my south wall and can be seen to the right in my filifera seedling pics from 2016. 

First pic-couple weeks ago 

third and fourth-4/22 after 7f in Feb 

fourth pic- shows 2011 temps.  Don't succumb to the totally false narrative of short or dry freeze! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is the double trunk palm behind the trachy a filifera ?