Jump to content
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT LOGGING IN ×
  • WELCOME GUEST

    It looks as if you are viewing PalmTalk as an unregistered Guest.

    Please consider registering so as to take better advantage of our vast knowledge base and friendly community.  By registering you will gain access to many features - among them are our powerful Search feature, the ability to Private Message other Users, and be able to post and/or answer questions from all over the world. It is completely free, no “catches,” and you will have complete control over how you wish to use this site.

    PalmTalk is sponsored by the International Palm Society. - an organization dedicated to learning everything about and enjoying palm trees (and their companion plants) while conserving endangered palm species and habitat worldwide. Please take the time to know us all better and register.

    guest Renda04.jpg

Showing my Butias asking for exact determination


GermanDennis

Recommended Posts

Hello out there, I am new to this forum.

I got two Butias in my yard. One recently planted and one planted a year (15 months) ago.
Both from the same dealer and according to him from the same source in Spain. 
As you might assume because of my name, I am living in Germany, germany's mild west close to netherlands border. 
Both plants were imported from Spain in 2021 so my plant #2 was basically tied together for about a year at my dealers greenhouse for capacity reasons. 
The first one did already see frost temperatures at nights to about -6°C.
Therefore, althought sold as "Capitata", the two surely are Odorata but someone told me that you can determinate them even more.

So I gonna start with the 2nd one, the recently planted one
image.thumb.jpeg.0b3d1456d672477b83b7fd13e9748c56.jpeg20220904_124458.thumb.jpg.b2c87f481d0aec664e7ac006b5a8447c.jpg20220904_124255.thumb.jpg.6f9a7514d86a514ab0b75ce66e582127.jpg20220904_124309.thumb.jpg.f174720340d1414733a15ee643a9b498.jpg20220904_124328.thumb.jpg.a8242c87f7ddddbee5a7ad3d7cd5d594.jpg


I don't know if you can see the details of the leaves exactly but I'll describe my observations:
The older leaves on that plant are way shorter than the newer ones with dense leaved petioles and very stable v-shape.
The spikes on the petioles are recognizeable. Whereas the newer fronds are very much longer and not that dense leaved but long leaved.
The leaves itself are are not that stiff so the v-shape everybody likes so much about that plant collapses pretty quick.
Allthough it might not seem like this, this specimen is the more blue/silverish one.

Coming to #1, planted last year. If interested, I can still add a picture from when I bought it.

20220903_130232.thumb.jpg.ca593db43ac29ee7d83ba043558e284c.jpg20220904_123835.thumb.jpg.03a074f145ef7fe2964fff0bc219d415.jpg20220904_123853.thumb.jpg.85f262475a7b1fb6a73a309b94214371.jpg20220904_123915.thumb.jpg.5c611f99b52bb5d4e72c39cf8ec60ec9.jpg20220904_124146.thumb.jpg.857b03aef61ce468801c59f61b4de2f9.jpg

When I bought this specimen I chose it because it was incredibly dense and very green. It throws about 7 fronds a year approx. 
But if I observe it correctly, the distance between the leaves on the petiole gets bigger and bigger with each new frond.
The dense leaved look seems to disappear slowly but steady and the fronds itself get longer and longer leaves as well.
I see the collapsing v-Shape coming here as well. The upper section of the plant is actually very dense fronded so the new spears a damaging each other because of the trunc not widening.

So my questions are:

  1.  Is there any chance #2 gets more compact in near future again? So denser fronds maybe not that long.
  2.  Might the rapidly enlarged fronds (on #2) may come because of the year of being tied?
  3.  Any clue to specify it more without the fruit? (talking about both)
  4.  What can I do for #1 that it continues to be compact and stable leaved?
  5.  Is there anything I can do to provoke trunk growth on #1?

My last question might sound a bit weird but in german forums and facebook groups people are spreading a myth about winter-hardyness. 
Acording to the myth the specimen will be harder the blacker the trunk and the leave-bases and the lower petioles are.
I found it weird because there was no science behind that but only the observation of some self called specialists. Any truth about that?

Thanks to all of you in advance

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, GermanDennis said:

Hello out there, I am new to this forum.

Welcome to Palm Talk , you have come to the right place. Both palms seem to be grown exceptionally well. To my untrained eyes you seem to have the standard Odorota formerly Capitata. 

1. Full sun usually means more compact.

2. Shade grown tied up leaves will normally be more stretched. 

3. Fruit will help get exact ID 

4. Prolly nothing the palm will do what it wants haha 

5. Keep it happy 

T J 

  • Upvote 1

T J 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/4/2022 at 3:18 PM, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Welcome to Palm Talk , you have come to the right place. Both palms seem to be grown exceptionally well. To my untrained eyes you seem to have the standard Odorota formerly Capitata. 

1. Full sun usually means more compact.

2. Shade grown tied up leaves will normally be more stretched. 

3. Fruit will help get exact ID 

4. Prolly nothing the palm will do what it wants haha 

5. Keep it happy 

T J 

Thanks for your response.

Any clues about the "hanging-leaves"? Those are still no old ladies 😅

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can already see and measure a difference on the recently planted one between fronds grown tied up in the dealers yard vs. the recent grown frond in my garden.

The last fronds from the time at the dealers side have a leaved-petioles about 1.6m (63") long. The leaved section of the recently grown frond is only 1.4m (55") long. 

So the fronds seem to shrink with every new one. I'm expecting to see more dense leaved and shorter fronds next year. Season is ending right now.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I'm reading it right, plant #2 is growing longer leaves now than the original ones.  I'd take that to mean the plant was grown in close to full sun, and the leaves are just getting longer as expected as it matures.  On the other hand plant #1 is growing shorter leaves, which is typical for taking a shade-grown palm into full sun.  As long as the new leaves look "normal" then there's no problem.  If they are distorted or yellowed or unusually stunted then it could be some kind of nutrient deficiency.  But in the photos of #1 I didn't see any signs of deficiencies.

To me they both look like Odorata (formerly Capitata), #1 is more compact but it might just be growing conditions instead of a species difference.  There are some others that are closely related (Catarinensis, Eriospatha, etc) that also look similar enough to be tough to tell apart.

I haven't heard of *improving* cold hardiness by making the trunk blacker, but I suppose it's possible that the darker-petioled versions are a little tougher.  We know with Bismarckia that the "green" versions can only handle 0C before damage, but the "silver" versions can handle -5C and lower with no significant damage.  The best of the "silver" Bismarckia are very purple-ish when young, and they end up being very silver when mature, and also very hardy in comparison.  The difference between the "silver" and the "purple when young silver" may or may not be significant.  Or it might be 1-2C difference in cold tolerance...that could be a big deal in some areas!  So I haven't heard of dark-petiole or dark-leafbase being hardier, but I suppose it's possible!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome to Palm Talk. I enjoyed your post. I can only reply to your questions as a person growing palms for over 50 years on the North Carolina, USA, coastal area. We have a lot of Butia palms here. Every 15 to 25 years we have cold periods that kill 75 to 80 % of the existing Butia's. but they are quickly replanted and the survivors re-seed making our Butia population constantly improving in cold hardiness. We have many different forms of Butia but there are very few that can be properly identified as species. I think that is true for most of America and maybe Europe too. It seems Butia is very easily hybridized with other Butias as well as other similar species.  Even though I still seek out "pure" species I think the mixing of species is even true in their native habitat or at least in the areas where the species overlap.  I do try to keep my palms identified as well as I can, as you are doing, but I have moved more towards just collecting different forms like, better cold hardiness, upright fronds, weeping  fronds, faster growing, wide leaflets, narrow leaflets, more symmetrical,  silver color,  green color,  blue color, or anything  that makes a Butia look different.  Any way you have some nice looking palms and I wish you the best at growing them. I look forward to seeing your progress. Thanks for posting.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have 3 Butias. Planted all the same time, same size. 1 has 9 feet of trunk, 1 has 6, 1 has 4. All about 10 feet apart with the same sun exposure and fertilization. They just grow at different rates.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/10/2022 at 12:09 AM, Merlyn said:

If I'm reading it right, plant #2 is growing longer leaves now than the original ones.  I'd take that to mean the plant was grown in close to full sun, and the leaves are just getting longer as expected as it matures.  On the other hand plant #1 is growing shorter leaves, which is typical for taking a shade-grown palm into full sun.  As long as the new leaves look "normal" then there's no problem.  If they are distorted or yellowed or unusually stunted then it could be some kind of nutrient deficiency.  But in the photos of #1 I didn't see any signs of deficiencies.

Well, if you don't know, Spain is like the European Florida - its very popular as vacation place because of sun, weather and temperatures. So both my plants are from there and from the same year (imported 2021). The difference is, that I bought #1 after it was recently imported and #2 after being growing tied up in the dealers yard. Number 1 was very very dense grown when I bought it. Now #1 is planted more than a year and its starting to get a little less dense. Meanwhile #2 got very large fronds while being tied up a year.  Number 2's older fronds from the time in spain are dense and short, almost like #1's ones. Then came the tied up time and the fronds go long monsters with less density and stiffness.  As I already observed on #2 (Reply #4), now the lenght of new fronds is now again going back and therefore to more density.

On 9/10/2022 at 12:09 AM, Merlyn said:

To me they both look like Odorata (formerly Capitata), #1 is more compact but it might just be growing conditions instead of a species difference.  There are some others that are closely related (Catarinensis, Eriospatha, etc) that also look similar enough to be tough to tell apart.

Thats what I thought. But might there not be a little Eriosphata in there?

On 9/10/2022 at 12:09 AM, Merlyn said:

I haven't heard of *improving* cold hardiness by making the trunk blacker, but I suppose it's possible that the darker-petioled versions are a little tougher.  We know with Bismarckia that the "green" versions can only handle 0C before damage, but the "silver" versions can handle -5C and lower with no significant damage.  The best of the "silver" Bismarckia are very purple-ish when young, and they end up being very silver when mature, and also very hardy in comparison.  The difference between the "silver" and the "purple when young silver" may or may not be significant.  Or it might be 1-2C difference in cold tolerance...that could be a big deal in some areas!  So I haven't heard of dark-petiole or dark-leafbase being hardier, but I suppose it's possible!

Its not about "making the trunk blacker" , its about variation within the species.  Some self called experts in germany are telling, that the more dark the petioles are (from the base towards the leaves) the more frost-tolerant will they be.  Anyhow for aguing with that, my #1, has already seen -6°C in two nights, no problem and it has green parts on the petiole down to the trunk.

On 9/10/2022 at 5:03 AM, Jeff zone 8 N.C. said:

Welcome to Palm Talk. I enjoyed your post. I can only reply to your questions as a person growing palms for over 50 years on the North Carolina, USA, coastal area. We have a lot of Butia palms here. Every 15 to 25 years we have cold periods that kill 75 to 80 % of the existing Butia's. but they are quickly replanted and the survivors re-seed making our Butia population constantly improving in cold hardiness. We have many different forms of Butia but there are very few that can be properly identified as species. I think that is true for most of America and maybe Europe too. It seems Butia is very easily hybridized with other Butias as well as other similar species.  Even though I still seek out "pure" species I think the mixing of species is even true in their native habitat or at least in the areas where the species overlap.  I do try to keep my palms identified as well as I can, as you are doing, but I have moved more towards just collecting different forms like, better cold hardiness, upright fronds, weeping  fronds, faster growing, wide leaflets, narrow leaflets, more symmetrical,  silver color,  green color,  blue color, or anything  that makes a Butia look different.  Any way you have some nice looking palms and I wish you the best at growing them. I look forward to seeing your progress. Thanks for posting.

Thank you for posting here. You know,  the butia is a slow grower and if you look at the map, germany has a "height" like Canada. Therefore they grow Butias in Europes south, dig them out and import them to northern europe. There are very much hardware stores selling half killed specimen (by cutting to much roots) and clients not getting lucky with these.  Getting good quality is the most important part right here. Luckyly I got a good source, although he shouldn't let tied up the specimens over a year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@GermanDennisit sounds like the difference in growth location and time in the ground might have some effect on the frond shape and length.  I'd guess you would need to let them grow out to "normal" for a year before knowing the final lengths.  The good news is that the length/compactness changes don't seem to be an indicator of a problem with the palm. 

Regarding Eriospatha, I'm definitely the wrong person to ask about that.  :D  I have 10 Butia Odorata/Capitata in the ground and some known hybrids (BxLytocaryum, BxJubaea, BxParajubaea Sunkha, and JubaeaxB) but no other Butia species.

For cold tolerance I suppose the blacker leaf base/lower petiole could be a sign of better cold tolerance.  In TX they tend to die below 12F = -11C but take small amounts of damage above 15F = -9C.  Most of the reports I've seen say "not much damage" at -6C or so.  There was a huge snowstorm and ice storm in Texas 2 winters ago, I'm not sure if anyone checked to see leaf base color compared to cold hardiness.  The "Palmageddon" thread might be a good place to ask if anyone has corroborating evidence!

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Merlyn said:

@GermanDennisit sounds like the difference in growth location and time in the ground might have some effect on the frond shape and length.  I'd guess you would need to let them grow out to "normal" for a year before knowing the final lengths.  The good news is that the length/compactness changes don't seem to be an indicator of a problem with the palm. 

Regarding Eriospatha, I'm definitely the wrong person to ask about that.  :D  I have 10 Butia Odorata/Capitata in the ground and some known hybrids (BxLytocaryum, BxJubaea, BxParajubaea Sunkha, and JubaeaxB) but no other Butia species.

For cold tolerance I suppose the blacker leaf base/lower petiole could be a sign of better cold tolerance.  In TX they tend to die below 12F = -11C but take small amounts of damage above 15F = -9C.  Most of the reports I've seen say "not much damage" at -6C or so.  There was a huge snowstorm and ice storm in Texas 2 winters ago, I'm not sure if anyone checked to see leaf base color compared to cold hardiness.  The "Palmageddon" thread might be a good place to ask if anyone has corroborating evidence!

 

I may find a place for another Butia specimen, so I can buy one with very dark petioles. This just for comparing and cuz I really like that species. This besides, its one of the onliest which will grow and survive here without every winters protection. You must know the climate on western Germany next to Netherlands border, Netherlands and South-Great-Britain are not like the continental climate you guys over there have. So we are altitude like Canada but much milder winter. Material for protection is already bought. Don't wanna let them die in case. You must know, for my place its like 8 years no hard winter, one year harder one. This means a cold wave of a week or so. When there is snow its not getting freezing cold. Sounds weird? Well that's our climate.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@GermanDennis that would be a neat experiment, if you can find one of a similar overall size.  I'm sure there's some variability from palm to palm anyway, but it would be useful to know if there's any obvious visual way to pick a hardy Butia! 

I know what you mean about the snow and cold, I used to live in Michigan not too far East of Lake Michigan.  We'd get "lake effect snow" and that helped keep the temperatures moderately cold instead of brutally cold.  When the snow didn't come with the cold front, that's when it would get down to 0F/-18C...or below.  Obviously I didn't grow palms there...  :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Merlyn said:

@GermanDennis that would be a neat experiment, if you can find one of a similar overall size.  I'm sure there's some variability from palm to palm anyway, but it would be useful to know if there's any obvious visual way to pick a hardy Butia! 

Well, season is ending here atm. So this will be a task for next year. Growing rate shrinks again. It was on about half an inch per day (1,3cm) at the the speres. Now it fell yet under 1cm.

When I told my dealer of trust about the petiols colors, he told me i was crazy and those experts were morons. Anyhow. Next year, if I buy another one, I will ask him to untie them to see how they are and look for the color.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good news @Merlyn.

One of the mentioned experts told me, that with #2 I already chose one of the "darker kind" so therefore I might have higher frost tolerance.
They talk about 2-3 more degrees in celsius.
Yet I'm even more happy. Ok, #2 is standing in the east to west stream and vise versa and #1 is protected by surrounding fences and buildings but we'll see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@GermanDennis that's interesting, I wouldn't have picked #2 as being anything particularly different.  I can see what they are talking about with the coloring, the bases do transition to a solid brown/purple/black near the base.  The other one is still mostly green near the base, except for a couple of splotches of brown.  I have no clue if that makes an actual difference for cold tolerance, but apparently you can find out!  :D

Keep in mind that the temperature in your yard can vary several degrees.  And it might not be warm/cold where you think it should be.  In my yard I thought the front yard would be colder, because it faces to the North and that's where the cold fronts come from.  But after I bought a 5 zone datalogging thermometer (Ambient Weather WS-3000) I discovered that the front yard was 2-4F warmer than the backyard!  The spots near the fence were the coldest, and the SE corner was dramatically worse.  Here's the coldest section I measured, you can see the SE corner barely hit 48F during the day while the rest of the yard went up to the mid to upper 50s.  And Saturday night the backyard (SE and SW) were about 3F colder than the front yard.  In my case the backyard is about 3-5 feet lower than the front yard, so I think the cold air is sinking into the backyard and settling around the fenceline.

2119120533_January2022brutalcoldweekend.thumb.png.efb328dc448835caecde2bbeebdb0cc1.png

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds interesting.
Well I got a 3 channel weather station with sensors which can feed in future a weather station with Data Logging.
Anyhow well. I  placed my 2 specimen that at least they'll get sun from south to southwest in winter.  We tend to say here that the afternoon sun is the strongest.
So they will warm up a little if there's light.
 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
On 9/4/2022 at 7:09 AM, GermanDennis said:

Hello out there, I am new to this forum.

I got two Butias in my yard. One recently planted and one planted a year (15 months) ago.
Both from the same dealer and according to him from the same source in Spain. 
As you might assume because of my name, I am living in Germany, germany's mild west close to netherlands border. 
Both plants were imported from Spain in 2021 so my plant #2 was basically tied together for about a year at my dealers greenhouse for capacity reasons. 
The first one did already see frost temperatures at nights to about -6°C.
Therefore, althought sold as "Capitata", the two surely are Odorata but someone told me that you can determinate them even more.

So I gonna start with the 2nd one, the recently planted one
image.thumb.jpeg.0b3d1456d672477b83b7fd13e9748c56.jpeg20220904_124458.thumb.jpg.b2c87f481d0aec664e7ac006b5a8447c.jpg20220904_124255.thumb.jpg.6f9a7514d86a514ab0b75ce66e582127.jpg20220904_124309.thumb.jpg.f174720340d1414733a15ee643a9b498.jpg20220904_124328.thumb.jpg.a8242c87f7ddddbee5a7ad3d7cd5d594.jpg


I don't know if you can see the details of the leaves exactly but I'll describe my observations:
The older leaves on that plant are way shorter than the newer ones with dense leaved petioles and very stable v-shape.
The spikes on the petioles are recognizeable. Whereas the newer fronds are very much longer and not that dense leaved but long leaved.
The leaves itself are are not that stiff so the v-shape everybody likes so much about that plant collapses pretty quick.
Allthough it might not seem like this, this specimen is the more blue/silverish one.

Coming to #1, planted last year. If interested, I can still add a picture from when I bought it.

20220903_130232.thumb.jpg.ca593db43ac29ee7d83ba043558e284c.jpg20220904_123835.thumb.jpg.03a074f145ef7fe2964fff0bc219d415.jpg20220904_123853.thumb.jpg.85f262475a7b1fb6a73a309b94214371.jpg20220904_123915.thumb.jpg.5c611f99b52bb5d4e72c39cf8ec60ec9.jpg20220904_124146.thumb.jpg.857b03aef61ce468801c59f61b4de2f9.jpg

When I bought this specimen I chose it because it was incredibly dense and very green. It throws about 7 fronds a year approx. 
But if I observe it correctly, the distance between the leaves on the petiole gets bigger and bigger with each new frond.
The dense leaved look seems to disappear slowly but steady and the fronds itself get longer and longer leaves as well.
I see the collapsing v-Shape coming here as well. The upper section of the plant is actually very dense fronded so the new spears a damaging each other because of the trunc not widening.

So my questions are:

  1.  Is there any chance #2 gets more compact in near future again? So denser fronds maybe not that long.
  2.  Might the rapidly enlarged fronds (on #2) may come because of the year of being tied?
  3.  Any clue to specify it more without the fruit? (talking about both)
  4.  What can I do for #1 that it continues to be compact and stable leaved?
  5.  Is there anything I can do to provoke trunk growth on #1?

My last question might sound a bit weird but in german forums and facebook groups people are spreading a myth about winter-hardyness. 
Acording to the myth the specimen will be harder the blacker the trunk and the leave-bases and the lower petioles are.
I found it weird because there was no science behind that but only the observation of some self called specialists. Any truth about that?

Thanks to all of you in advance

I'm originally from Germany but living in San Antonio, TX (8b/9a) and it's not surprising to me that palms trees can do grow under certain conditions in Germany.  The Pindo palm is very cold hardy in our region.  We've had an artic winter in Feb 2021 , everyone called it " palmaggedon" , took out a lot of washingtonia robusta and all of our Queens.  One of our survivors is the pindo palm (butia ) , it withstood our 108 hr below freezing artic front.  Temperatures during the time ranged anywhere from 0.5°C to 13°C at the lowest.  So what's left here ? All Sabal palm didn't even notice our winter, leaves didn't even burn. Washingtonia filifera all survived,  I would even say most of filibusta survived but a lot of robustas fried and never recovered.  Nursery guy said about 70 to 75 percent of mule palms made it as well .  Long story short what helps a speedy recovery is warm sunny weather after a freeze . That's where it gets complicated in Germany if you have one that's severely damaged by an artic front.  It does rain a lot in the winter time in Germany and with the combination of that,  a damaged palm that's planted outdoors will have a hard time surving.  For optimal growth you also need full sun and long long very warm summers. Good luck on growing your butia. Keep it protected in winter you should be fine. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

I'm new in the "Butia game", but there are a couple of Butias growing in the Rhineland area for many years now. Most of them are B. odorata (capitata) and only a few seem to be eriospatha. But all the odoratas I've seen look different. I planted my first odorata as a relatively small plant last year. I ordered it from France and it was grown in Italy. It looked rather green and a bit flimsy when I planted it out. After a couple of months als the new growth looked more bluish and more compact. It didn't look like a green house plant when I got it though. That's actually why I got it, because I knew the source to be of good quality. The only thing I heard about them is, that the bluer they are the more hardy they are supposed to be, but I'm not so sure about this, because I think it always depends on the climate. I think that they come in all shapes and varieties like most other palms do. Mine might also just get more blue because of getting established or becaue of all the sun exposure it had last season. When we had the cold spell in December 2022 I tied it together, mulched it, and put two layers of frost fleece over it. We had several nights with temperatures down to -5°C and even two hours of -8°C with temperatures barely going above freezing for a couple of days. I unwrapped it just after the freeze and now a couple of weeks later it still looks flawless. Not even showing any signs of foliage damage while my trunking Washingtonia filibusta (unprotected) is completely burnt. I might make a thread about it as a sort of journal in my climate next year, if it makes it through this exceptionally wet remaining winter that is ...

Edited by Hortulanus

Yes it's me Hortulanus 😂

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Hortulanus said:

The only thing I heard about them is, that the bluer they are the more hardy they are supposed to be, but I'm not so sure about this, because I think it always depends on the climate.

Typically this is true for several other palm species such as Bismarckia nobilis, Sabal uresana, Chamaerops humilis and Copernicia alba so I imagine that it holds true for Butia also.  Size of palm is also important.  I had three Butia odorata planted at my home in San Antonio, Texas.  The largest was a bit larger than the one posted above by @GermanDennis and it was the bluest of the three.  The other two were smaller and one of them I grew from seed I collected from a very blue mother palm.  All three were unprotected in the freeze event of February 2021 when it got down to a low of -13°C combined with snow and freezing rain.  The largest and bluest Butia came through with only cosmetic damage to about 25% of the fronds while the other two suffered spear-pull and were trunk-cut 3 months later.  All survived but the smaller ones were set back.  I've been told that Butia palms are notorious for having spear-pull (due to internal fungus) during wet freeze events - especially smaller ones.

Bluest palm back in 2018:

1989894895_rsz_B.odorata.thumb.jpg.93a9e934fbb575c6660fb5a9d3628b9e.jpg

Smaller seed-grown Butia in May, 2021:

rsz_cut_butia.thumb.jpg.9db843896f9f85b952c2789bbf37c165.jpg

Same palm one year later:

IMG_20220615_101329.thumb.jpg.711888254b5f61d91d4cd7ed2372d494.jpg

  • Like 3

Jon Sunder

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Fusca said:

Typically this is true for several other palm species such as Bismarckia nobilis, Sabal uresana, Chamaerops humilis and Copernicia alba so I imagine that it holds true for Butia also.  Size of palm is also important.  I had three Butia odorata planted at my home in San Antonio, Texas.  The largest was a bit larger than the one posted above by @GermanDennis and it was the bluest of the three.  The other two were smaller and one of them I grew from seed I collected from a very blue mother palm.  All three were unprotected in the freeze event of February 2021 when it got down to a low of -13°C combined with snow and freezing rain.  The largest and bluest Butia came through with only cosmetic damage to about 25% of the fronds while the other two suffered spear-pull and were trunk-cut 3 months later.  All survived but the smaller ones were set back.  I've been told that Butia palms are notorious for having spear-pull (due to internal fungus) during wet freeze events - especially smaller ones.

Bluest palm back in 2018:

1989894895_rsz_B.odorata.thumb.jpg.93a9e934fbb575c6660fb5a9d3628b9e.jpg

Smaller seed-grown Butia in May, 2021:

rsz_cut_butia.thumb.jpg.9db843896f9f85b952c2789bbf37c165.jpg

Same palm one year later:

IMG_20220615_101329.thumb.jpg.711888254b5f61d91d4cd7ed2372d494.jpg

Yours seem to be bigger than mine. But it's good to hear that they made in through because we had a smiliar cold blast also in Februrary 2021. I lost a Jubaea to it...

Yes it's me Hortulanus 😂

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I planted out several Butia's some 16 years ago and only one survived the cold winter off 2010/2011. They were al kept dry during this winter but only one survived without damage and is now getting realy big. I bought it as B. capitata (odorata) but beacause it has reddish/purple fruits I am not sure about the species. But it is doeing fine over here. After Jubaea this is the hardiest feather palm for me...But I do think it will not survive undammaged when we have another winter lilke the one we had in 2010. Just before the predicted cold in 21 I have cut all the leaves in a panick so I could give it some protection...a shame because it only went down to -7/-8 over here and the palm would have been fine....So it is still recovering from the unnessecary mutulation I inflicteded on it. It flowers normally every year but not since I cutted the leaves. I do have small seedlings of this plant from before 21...:) The picture of me and the seeds are from a harvest in 2019

butia1.jpg

bz.jpg

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Hello guys out there.

I'm heading back to my topic just to tell what happend.
In December 22 we had a week with minimum temperatures below zero and some of these days as well max temps below zero. Talking about celsius of course.
Same in January 2023 but without the max temps below zero.  

I protected my Butias and my Jubaea tried up,  wrapped with heating cable controled by thermostat and covered with fleece.
The Butias look fine, the Jubaea got dried out leaves. Next time I wont protect the Jubaea. 

@christof p

Nice palm you got there.


 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

January was to wet here. I guess the Jubaea (not shown here) is dead. I was able to pull the spear. 
But both Butias are looking great. 

Butia #2 is now showing some more compact new leaves. This means the leaves are now getting shorter again.
As already said they were imported from Spain and the there they got enough light.
Then it was a year tied up on my dealers site and the leaved got incredible long. Now the growth is going to be compact again.

Number #1 was always compact, might have been changed just a little but is still very dense. 
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...