Palms of Dallas

[DreaminAboutPalms]

These pics were taken back in February but here’s a few more washingtonias that survived 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

A dallas yard with a dozen filiferas. Google maps dates back to 2007 when they were 6-8 feet tall and as of 2021 they were as tall as house, and looks like trunks get protected every winter. I know some survived the arctic blast but I haven't driven past since early this year so I'll try to check them out again sometime soon and see how the yard is looking these days and what overall survival was 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

April 2022 street view of hooters Washingtonia hybrids in downtown Dallas.

3 of 4 survived. Middle one of 3 planted in row died. These have been going since 2005ish, and clearly benefit from the downtown heat island. Would be curious to know what overall low temp was. Trunks get wrapped in burlap that's it

 

[Sabal King]

5 hours ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

A dallas yard with a dozen filiferas. Google maps dates back to 2007 when they were 6-8 feet tall and as of 2021 they were as tall as house, and looks like trunks get protected every winter. I know some survived the arctic blast but I haven't driven past since early this year so I'll try to check them out again sometime soon and see how the yard is looking these days and what overall survival was 

I would love to get some seeds from these survivors.. I could make a few spots for filiferas but don't want to bother until I found some that can handle what we had back in 2021.

[DreaminAboutPalms]

15 minutes ago, tlow said:

I would love to get some seeds from these survivors.. I could make a few spots for filiferas but don't want to bother until I found some that can handle what we had back in 2021.

I will definitely be collecting filifera seeds from the survivors around town, there are several near fences where it would be easy to collect seed.

I say go for it and plant filifera. If you have them in an area in full sun protected from north wind (ideally against building) and you remember to fertilize them then they are pretty much bulletproof in DFW. Even in an event like 2021 when a lot died it's really only a matter of a few degrees between living and dying, and I am pretty sure a lot could have been saved if trunk cut right away. Worst case scenario buy a big black tarp and throw it over the top and keep them a few degrees warmer. Also growing from seed helps in terms of hardiness vs transplanting a mature specimen

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Another good future seed selection spot. Right off the 67 in South Dallas 

[Collectorpalms]

On 9/9/2022 at 8:39 AM, DreaminAboutPalms said:

Another good future seed selection spot. Right off the 67 in South Dallas 

Yeah got seeds… the middle one is alive barely 

[Collectorpalms]

Bigger than it appears

[Collectorpalms]

Palmettos saved by building and a dead trachy just a few feet away to the far left in second picture.

[DreaminAboutPalms]

3 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

Yeah got seeds… the middle one is alive barely 

I am surprised the middle one is still alive. When I last drove by 7 months ago it was in the same state. Just hanging on for dear life. Probably has never had any fertilizer 

 

 

[Sabal King]

On 9/8/2022 at 3:51 PM, DreaminAboutPalms said:

I will definitely be collecting filifera seeds from the survivors around town, there are several near fences where it would be easy to collect seed.

I say go for it and plant filifera. If you have them in an area in full sun protected from north wind (ideally against building) and you remember to fertilize them then they are pretty much bulletproof in DFW. Even in an event like 2021 when a lot died it's really only a matter of a few degrees between living and dying, and I am pretty sure a lot could have been saved if trunk cut right away. Worst case scenario buy a big black tarp and throw it over the top and keep them a few degrees warmer. Also growing from seed helps in terms of hardiness vs transplanting a mature specimen

Can you let me know if you get seeds available?  Would be happy to buy some from you.  I've been looking for filifera survivor seeds as I really like the palm itself, but don't want to commit a spot to something that when I look around I see or get mostly hybrids, or pure robusta.  Don't want to waste a spot on that much chance.  Something local would be great!

[DreaminAboutPalms]

In Plano, this place bought some Robustas last year, and it appears according to street view that only one is showing green. They had them wrapped still last time I drove by but will try to drive by again at some point and see what the status is 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Tallest survivor CIDP in DFW

[jwitt]

Amazing recovery Texas!

Serious question here, I know there was not that many CIDP's in DFW during the event.  What percentage appeared to have survived?

Same for Austin, San Antonio.  

Do we even know this palms ultimate ability to survive extreme low temperatures?

Could areas that saw high lethal at higher temps have been in more of a growing mode heading into this event(actively growing or nearly so) due to mild winter temps preceding this event?

Even so, I think CIDP hardiness has been rewritten concerning ultimate low temperatures during this event in multiple locations.

[UK_Palms]

How cold would that CIDP have seen? 8 days below freezing and an ultimate low of about 0F right? Or did it go down to -5F there?

18 months on from the 2021 freeze and the crown is still very small and not putting out proper length fronds yet. It will be interesting to see how long it takes to recover properly. Maybe another year or so? Interestingly the Trachycarpus in that yard was killed, so CIDP is potentially more hardy than Trachycarpus fortunei, at least under certain conditions. After hearing so much nonsense about Trachy's surviving temps down to -25C to -30C, I think it is fair to say that -15C to -20C will see most of them killed stone dead.

[DreaminAboutPalms]

1 hour ago, UK_Palms said:

How cold would that CIDP have seen? 8 days below freezing and an ultimate low of about 0F right? Or did it go down to -5F there?

18 months on from the 2021 freeze and the crown is still very small and not putting out proper length fronds yet. It will be interesting to see how long it takes to recover properly. Maybe another year or so? Interestingly the Trachycarpus in that yard was killed, so CIDP is potentially more hardy than Trachycarpus fortunei, at least under certain conditions. After hearing so much nonsense about Trachy's surviving temps down to -25C to -30C, I think it is fair to say that -15C to -20C will see most of them killed stone dead.

I believe it was closer to zero degrees, and I am pretty sure that it was defoliated again this year and that those are all new fronds as it got down to 19 in January and then got down to 20 3 days in a row a month later. ALSO, Dallas was in a huge drought up until late August so I wouldn't be surprised if it has grown considerably since then. Also 

It is my understanding that a healthy, well established CIDP in a dry-ish climate can recover from temps in the low single digits but this depends on a variety of factors. In any sort of humid climate no shot at all. In a pure desert climate a healthy one can probably take zero, BUT that doesn't mean they can take temps like that every other year. They don't get planted much anywhere that temps get into teens more than few times a decade. 

They can come back from defoliation but too many years of defoliation in a row and they will never regain a full crown and then they will slowly decline. The reason they exist in DFW (even though in small numbers) is because after a winter where they get defoliated we will have a winter or two in a row that doesn't get below mid 20's and they are able to regain a full crown. Also, we have a 270 day growing season nearly and frequently get days in the 70's during the 3 months of winter and we have the power of the sun at 32 degrees north. 

This one below is in Addison in North Dallas and was defoliated half the years 2010-2020 but after warmer winter in 2019 and 2020 where it didn't go below 22 it regained a full crown again; unfortunately it died or was removed last year. I think if you live in a decent microclimate and have some space to plant one up against a southern facing wall in a climate like DFW it's worth a shot. If you take care of it and give it fertilizer and water the trunk will thicken up and it will have a fighting chance at semi long term survival. Same thing with massive Arlington survivor had a fullish crown going into freeze

Also there are two story tall surviving trachies way farther north in Dallas suburbs that definitely saw zero, and yet there are dead trachies that saw low teens - I think this is just due to individual genetic factors, soil, how wet/dry going into freeze, has it had fertilizer in the past decade, etc. 

Edited September 18, 2022 by DreaminAboutPalms

[DreaminAboutPalms]

6 hours ago, jwitt said:

Amazing recovery Texas!

Serious question here, I know there was not that many CIDP's in DFW during the event.  What percentage appeared to have survived?

Same for Austin, San Antonio.  

Do we even know this palms ultimate ability to survive extreme low temperatures?

Could areas that saw high lethal at higher temps have been in more of a growing mode heading into this event(actively growing or nearly so) due to mild winter temps preceding this event?

Even so, I think CIDP hardiness has been rewritten concerning ultimate low temperatures during this event in multiple locations.

San Antonio they pretty much all survived, there are CIDP there from the 80's. In Austin they pretty much all survived as well, I lived there last year and searched area pretty extensively and could count CIDP deaths on one hand and the ones that died appeared to receive no care at all.

Even though Texas saw some low temps, Texas climate is very unique and gets 70 degree days every week in winter and has longer growing season than other zone 8's so it can be deceiving. Living in Texas is like living in a zone 9b climate and then you get a handful of days every few years where your weather forecast was swapped with des moines Iowa. So other than in the desert, I wouldn't count on them to bounce back repeatedly from low single digits. Not to mention the fact that pretty much nowhere else to my knowledge has average daily highs in low 60's during winter but is susceptible to drop to single digits. Even in Houston a lot died or came back and then declined 

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by DreaminAboutPalms

[jwitt]

1 hour ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

San Antonio they pretty much all survived, there are CIDP there from the 80's. In Austin they pretty much all survived as well, I lived there last year and searched area pretty extensively and could count CIDP deaths on one hand and the ones that died appeared to receive no care at all.

Even though Texas saw some low temps, Texas climate is very unique and gets 70 degree days every week in winter and has longer growing season than other zone 8's so it can be deceiving. Living in Texas is like living in a zone 9b climate and then you get a handful of days every few years where your weather forecast was swapped with des moines Iowa. So other than in the desert, I wouldn't count on them to bounce back repeatedly from low single digits. Not to mention the fact that pretty much nowhere else to my knowledge has average daily highs in low 60's during winter but is susceptible to drop to single digits. Even in Houston a lot died or came back and then declined 

 

El Paso also saw nearly 100% recovery of CIDP in 2011 after back to back nights of nearly zero. 

Thank you for the Austin/SA update.

Definitely one hardy species!

 

I am very experienced in Texas weather as having lived in your fine state for 1 week every month for years.  

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by jwitt

[Jack Lord]

On 9/4/2022 at 2:37 PM, DreaminAboutPalms said:

Unfortunately this CIDP died in the freeze, but given how rare they are, here is a picture from shortly before. It was about 15 years old. Proof that with the right microclimate they can survive here 

First post.

I lived in Dallas (specifically Addison) from 1999-2000. I remember this house quite well. it was the most ambitious effort at growing palms I recall seeing.  I used to constantly scan the cityscape for palms and would report them to my office mates, most of whom were from there and did not quite believe me.

[5am]

Dallas Arboretum has lots of big needles in the parking lot, various sized Sabal minors, and young potted trachies throughout. As for washies, this one and the babies beneath are the only few I noticed. They’re somewhere on the main path near the Children’s Garden.

[DreaminAboutPalms]

19 hours ago, 5am said:

Dallas Arboretum has lots of big needles in the parking lot, various sized Sabal minors, and young potted trachies throughout. As for washies, this one and the babies beneath are the only few I noticed. They’re somewhere on the main path near the Children’s Garden.

Seeds ripe on the Washingtonia? Accessible? 

[5am]

They look ripe to me though I didn’t notice any on the paved path.  There is no fence to prevent access to the tree. I’m kicking myself now for not having hunted for any but the kids were whining so it was time to go.

[DreaminAboutPalms]

3 hours ago, 5am said:

They look ripe to me though I didn’t notice any on the paved path.  There is no fence to prevent access to the tree. I’m kicking myself now for not having hunted for any but the kids were whining so it was time to go.

Can't tell if they are reachable or not. Might be one of those things where I eye it from 20 feet away and then get a running start and try to grab a branch

Edited October 2, 2022 by DreaminAboutPalms

[Collectorpalms]

June 2019, Palms of Dallas' Past. Only Washingtonia Survivor remaining is the left of center one. They grew really fast, always struck me as hybrids because they are not as fat as some I have seen, but maybe not Afterall. But by far the fastest Filifera looking ones I know of. Nearly doubled in size since I first saw them in 2014?

Arboretums usually state that taking any parts of plants including seeds is prohibited. Just FYI, best to ask first. Only 1 of these survived.

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Drove through this neighborhood in Plano and a lot of mature sabal Mexicanas. Also a few CIDP, one of which looks to be a survivor 

Edited October 10, 2022 by DreaminAboutPalms

[TonyDFW]

Autumn in Dallas. 2 growing seasons after 3F

[TonyDFW]

More palms that survived 3F in Dallas

[jwitt]

TonyDFW 

Stunning! 

I cannot believe how tall that bamboo is. Apparently it was wood hardy through your freeze. Did it even defoliate?

Your armata in the corner has etched that stunning blue in my mind forever.  That is one palm I need to figure out for my climate. 

Hoping year 3 is a palmy one and 2021 a distant memory.

Edited October 12, 2022 by jwitt

[TonyDFW]

The bamboo was completely defoliated after the deep freeze

[TonyDFW]

[jwitt]

6 hours ago, TonyDFW said:

The bamboo was completely defoliated after the deep freeze

Your yard recovery alone is amazing.  Still hard for me to look at the freeze pictures. I remember a decade ago freezing and thinking all was lost in my yard.  Nature is amazing!

At the end of the day, I wish I could go back in time with the knowledge now known. 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Massive juvenile Filifera downtown. The trunk on this is so massive 

Edited October 13, 2022 by DreaminAboutPalms

[Collectorpalms]

CIDP in Arlington,,, Facebook market place: listed for sale or a cut down'

[TonyDFW]

I planted the washys in 2000 as seedlings. 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Downtown at Hooters 2 of the 4 remaining Washingtonia are producing seeds, although not that many compared to other specimens I have seen 

[ahosey01]

@TonyDFW what is that bamboo species?

[RCC-DALLAS]

On 8/13/2022 at 4:06 PM, DreaminAboutPalms said:

On Harvest Hill drive - SW corner of 635/tollway intersection between Montfort and tollway. Looks to be about 7 years old. 

 

[RCC-DALLAS]

i see this palm almost every day.  It has grown a lot this last year.  It even looks better than some windmills do a few days after this artic cold we had a couple of weeks ago. A temperature drop of 20 degree in a few hours.

[DreaminAboutPalms]

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Washingtonia spotting at intersection of Parker and midway. It's pretty decently fried right now, but it did survive Palmagaeddon and is facing south so has a shot at semi long term survival