Oklahoma Mexican Fan palm

[WattsZ]

A few days ago exactly one year since planting.

 

6/27/22

6/27/21

Edited June 28, 2022 by WattsZ

[Will Simpson]

They get big fast . It'll be one of your favorite palms for sure .

Will

[NBTX11]

May I suggest that you try to plant a pure Washingtonia Filifera.  In my opinion, they are just as beautiful of a palm, and they also grow very rapidly.  I feel like an established Filifera will survive with essentially little to no protection many winters in Oklahoma.  Whereas, a Robusta will require extensive protection most winters there.  North Texas had a lot of Washingtonias prior to the freeze.  You can gain an extra 6 degrees of hardiness by planting a Filifera.  Filifera are leaf hardy to 14 degrees and overall hardy to 10F or less.   Robusta will burn at 20F or low 20's. 

Edited June 28, 2022 by NBTX11

[Ben OK]

Good luck with it. I had one in the ground here that survived one winter for me. The second winter it didn't pull through the -14F low and but the dust. I have seen people in OK get them through winters for enough years that they needed ladders to protect them before the lost them. Eventually they get too big to protect, we have an unusually cold winter, or both. They are fun in the meantime though. 

[WattsZ]

45 minutes ago, Ben OK said:

Good luck with it. I had one in the ground here that survived one winter for me. The second winter it didn't pull through the -14F low and but the dust. I have seen people in OK get them through winters for enough years that they needed ladders to protect them before the lost them. Eventually they get too big to protect, we have an unusually cold winter, or both. They are fun in the meantime though. 

Thanks we fully enclose it with a frame and insulation board. wrap c9 lights on it and have them on a thermocube with a wireless temp reader. we do that from Jan-mid march. Plan is to do it until it is to big. We had to do a 12' box on the sabal this past winter.

[WattsZ]

47 minutes ago, Ben OK said:

Good luck with it. I had one in the ground here that survived one winter for me. The second winter it didn't pull through the -14F low and but the dust. I have seen people in OK get them through winters for enough years that they needed ladders to protect them before the lost them. Eventually they get too big to protect, we have an unusually cold winter, or both. They are fun in the meantime though. 

yea we fully bx this one and plan to until its unmanageable. Id love to get my hands on a true filifera, but haven't had luck finding one as of yet.

[NBTX11]

3 minutes ago, WattsZ said:

yea we fully bx this one and plan to until its unmanageable. Id love to get my hands on a true filifera, but haven't had luck finding one as of yet.

Can get you seeds if you want some.  I have a bunch of seeds.  Easy to grow.  I grow Filifera seedlings all the time.  Give some away occasionally.  I can see a seed producing pure or 95+ percent pure Filifera every time I turn around, around here.  They are everywhere.   

[WattsZ]

31 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

Can get you seeds if you want some.  I have a bunch of seeds.  Easy to grow.  I grow Filifera seedlings all the time.  Give some away occasionally.  I can see a seed producing pure or 95+ percent pure Filifera every time I turn around, around here.  They are everywhere.   

Sure! I would definetly take you up on that offer

[NBTX11]

17 hours ago, WattsZ said:

Sure! I would definetly take you up on that offer

PM me with your info and I will mail you a few seeds.

[DreaminAboutPalms]

I think a Filifera may be able to survive unprotected a few years out of every 10 but most winters it would need some protection. And needs to be close to a southern facing wall no question about it. It’s not just low temps in OKC it’s the average of 5-6 inches of snow and average daily north wind of 11+mph from dec-Feb. it’s like a colder windier DFW. They also had 21 days in the teens this winter with like 60% of the days going below 14. Every time we get those cold fronts in Texas it’s significantly colder just 200 miles north. In the 180 miles between Dallas and Austin the weather doesn’t change THAT much, but when you cross the red river and head 180 miles north to OKC it’s like going 360 miles north in terms of different weather especially in winter.

  I’m not saying it’s not possibly in fact I would plant both to try out, but I’ve always said that Robusta isn’t a bad to zone push and protect because even if it’s covered up for 3 months they grow so fast that in a place like OKC it would have a pretty decently full crown like 5-6 months of the year. You may only be able to protect it for 10 years before it’s too big but just plan ahead and plant another one beside it 5 years from now hypothetically. Even trachies get protected in the area. I’ve always been interested in how suitable OKC is for palms and i think everything looks beat there if it doesn’t get protected. The 

Edited June 30, 2022 by DreaminAboutPalms

[NBTX11]

Speaking of Oklahoma palms, anyone know how the Durant Sabals fared?  The ones at the big casino in Durant OK. 

[NBTX11]

1 hour ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

I think a Filifera may be able to survive unprotected a few years out of every 10 but most winters it would need some protection. And needs to be close to a southern facing wall no question about it. It’s not just low temps in OKC it’s the average of 5-6 inches of snow and average daily north wind of 11+mph from dec-Feb. it’s like a colder windier DFW. They also had 21 days in the teens this winter with like 60% of the days going below 14. Every time we get those cold fronts in Texas it’s significantly colder just 200 miles north. In the 180 miles between Dallas and Austin the weather doesn’t change THAT much, but when you cross the red river and head 180 miles north to OKC it’s like going 360 miles north in terms of different weather especially in winter.

  I’m not saying it’s not possibly in fact I would plant both to try out, but I’ve always said that Robusta isn’t a bad to zone push and protect because even if it’s covered up for 3 months they grow so fast that in a place like OKC it would have a pretty decently full crown like 5-6 months of the year. You may only be able to protect it for 10 years before it’s too big but just plan ahead and plant another one beside it 5 years from now hypothetically. Even trachies get protected in the area. I’ve always been interested in how suitable OKC is for palms and i think everything looks beat there if it doesn’t get protected. The 

Yes but the overall point is that Filifera will need less elaborate protection measures and less often than Robusta, not that they won’t need any. Dallas had many unprotected for years and years prior to the freeze, and it’s not that far away. They really are leaf hardy to around 14. Ask me how I know. A large established one I am confident could make it about 50 percent of winters in OKC with virtually no protection. Other winters would need significant protection but not all winter, but for maybe 2-3 weeks in total. 

Edited June 30, 2022 by NBTX11

[DreaminAboutPalms]

30 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

Yes but the overall point is that Filifera will need less elaborate protection measures and less often than Robusta, not that they won’t need any. Dallas had many unprotected for years and years prior to the freeze, and it’s not that far away. They really are leaf hardy to around 14. Ask me how I know. A large established one I am confident could make it about 50 percent of winters in OKC with virtually no protection. 

I don’t disagree with that. a large established one would be interesting to see, but if you are trying to grow one from seed or Seedling size it would be tough 

Robusta would for sure have to be completely protected from beginning of December to early March. Filifera wouldn’t have to be protected all the time but the weather there is so variable that you would have to protect it pretty much every week for a day or two. But it would be stressful as h*ll because you’d have to protect from top and climb a ladder after a few years You would need like a retractable awning or something until it gets too tall
 

OKC gets days every winter basically that are like the 2011 event in north Texas. This winter there from the data I found on accuweather was technically an 8a and had 10 as the low but hit 10-12 half a dozen times and had a few days not even make it out of the teens. It’s one thing in Albuquerque where it’s dry but OKC gets a lot of ice and snow which Filiferas obviously don’t like in the crown. 
 

if you protect a robusta for 10 weeks a year it’s like two days of work per setting up and taking down. That plant store in Tulsa had some nice ones that they used Christmas lights, then home insulation, and then threw a tarp over top. If I lived in OKC i would definitely be testing the limits of a Filifera too but I do think that you can have a robusta that looks really good half the year and it’s not as stressful as having to protect at a moments notice 

Edited June 30, 2022 by DreaminAboutPalms

[Ben OK]

1 hour ago, NBTX11 said:

Speaking of Oklahoma palms, anyone know how the Durant Sabals fared?  The ones at the big casino in Durant OK. 

I haven't been down that way in quite a while, so I am not sure. I would be surprised if any of them made it. Maybe they protected them though. So who knows.

[Ben OK]

I suppose to clarify my first post, all of the washingtonia I have seen protected here over the winters were hybrids. So it is probably a good thing you are giving your so much protection if it is heavily robusta.

 The current small plants I picked up in Phoenix were volunteers (so not sure if they are robusta, filifera, or mix). Though the seeds I brought home were from a fat old filifera near the Biltmore area.

[NBTX11]

Permanent Filifera are good to go way up into Central Texas.  Probably Waco or so.  By permanent I mean living over 50 years, possibly a lot more.  Any idea the amount of cold these things have seen over the years.  I personally saw two Filifera in Killeen Texas that were as old and tall, complete with battle scarred mangled trunks, as any in Austin or San Antonio.  If they are not hardy all the way to Oklahoma city, I am quite confident they could make it to at least the Red River, if not a little farther.

Edited June 30, 2022 by NBTX11

[WattsZ]

18 hours ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

I think a Filifera may be able to survive unprotected a few years out of every 10 but most winters it would need some protection. And needs to be close to a southern facing wall no question about it. It’s not just low temps in OKC it’s the average of 5-6 inches of snow and average daily north wind of 11+mph from dec-Feb. it’s like a colder windier DFW. They also had 21 days in the teens this winter with like 60% of the days going below 14. Every time we get those cold fronts in Texas it’s significantly colder just 200 miles north. In the 180 miles between Dallas and Austin the weather doesn’t change THAT much, but when you cross the red river and head 180 miles north to OKC it’s like going 360 miles north in terms of different weather especially in winter.

  I’m not saying it’s not possibly in fact I would plant both to try out, but I’ve always said that Robusta isn’t a bad to zone push and protect because even if it’s covered up for 3 months they grow so fast that in a place like OKC it would have a pretty decently full crown like 5-6 months of the year. You may only be able to protect it for 10 years before it’s too big but just plan ahead and plant another one beside it 5 years from now hypothetically. Even trachies get protected in the area. I’ve always been interested in how suitable OKC is for palms and i think everything looks beat there if it doesn’t get protected. The 

I agree on it’s definitely a colder/windier dfw! The odd thing is we really don’t get snow every winter but these past two winters we have had plenty for here. With the box I build for it I put all sides and top on and leave one side off until January-March. I have c9s on a thermocube and a wireless thermometer placed at the spear. We also have a 11’ sabal mexicana that I boxed from January-March and that one was about a 12’ build. It’s worth it to us but the robusta will get to an unmanageable point before the sabal or the windmill. I only use lights on the windmill really except for the vortex of 2020 of course. Last winter in the box I didn’t lose any fronds and upon opening they were just as green. Even on some of the coldest days it is sunny so I opened the boxes on some afternoons for light and to make sure the box didn’t collect humidity. 

[knikfar]

18 hours ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

I think a Filifera may be able to survive unprotected a few years out of every 10 but most winters it would need some protection. And needs to be close to a southern facing wall no question about it. It’s not just low temps in OKC it’s the average of 5-6 inches of snow and average daily north wind of 11+mph from dec-Feb. it’s like a colder windier DFW. They also had 21 days in the teens this winter with like 60% of the days going below 14. Every time we get those cold fronts in Texas it’s significantly colder just 200 miles north. In the 180 miles between Dallas and Austin the weather doesn’t change THAT much, but when you cross the red river and head 180 miles north to OKC it’s like going 360 miles north in terms of different weather especially in winter.

  I’m not saying it’s not possibly in fact I would plant both to try out, but I’ve always said that Robusta isn’t a bad to zone push and protect because even if it’s covered up for 3 months they grow so fast that in a place like OKC it would have a pretty decently full crown like 5-6 months of the year. You may only be able to protect it for 10 years before it’s too big but just plan ahead and plant another one beside it 5 years from now hypothetically. Even trachies get protected in the area. I’ve always been interested in how suitable OKC is for palms and i think everything looks beat there if it doesn’t get protected. The 

I'm in Raleigh NC, zone 7b/8a. I just planted a small filifera. Thoughts on longer term survival? 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

4 hours ago, knikfar said:

I'm in Raleigh NC, zone 7b/8a. I just planted a small filifera. Thoughts on longer term survival? 

If you can keep moisture out of the crown during winter it’s got a good shot of lasting longer term.That’s really going to be the main challenge I think. I would definitely plant it on a slight mound too so it can stay dryer when you’re getting 2.5-3 inches of rain each month in winter with cooler cloudier days. 

Temps most winters in Raleigh shouldn’t phase it, but for those years that get a bit colder than normal, having it near a southern facing wall would also help keep it a bit warmer and also
From what I know Raleigh is like 60% trees which helps protect stuff from winds which helps. 
 

Almost need one of these portable jobsite spray booths to keep it dry 

otherwise could build almost like a table of sorts with 4 thin posts and then a cut down piece of plywood on top connecting the 4 posts that would protect from overhead moisture and still allow light in from sides

[DreaminAboutPalms]

4 hours ago, WattsZ said:

I agree on it’s definitely a colder/windier dfw! The odd thing is we really don’t get snow every winter but these past two winters we have had plenty for here. With the box I build for it I put all sides and top on and leave one side off until January-March. I have c9s on a thermocube and a wireless thermometer placed at the spear. We also have a 11’ sabal mexicana that I boxed from January-March and that one was about a 12’ build. It’s worth it to us but the robusta will get to an unmanageable point before the sabal or the windmill. I only use lights on the windmill really except for the vortex of 2020 of course. Last winter in the box I didn’t lose any fronds and upon opening they were just as green. Even on some of the coldest days it is sunny so I opened the boxes on some afternoons for light and to make sure the box didn’t collect humidity. 

That’s the way to do it. 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

19 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

Permanent Filifera are good to go way up into Central Texas.  Probably Waco or so.  By permanent I mean living over 50 years, possibly a lot more.  Any idea the amount of cold these things have seen over the years.  I personally saw two Filifera in Killeen Texas that were as old and tall, complete with battle scarred mangled trunks, as any in Austin or San Antonio.  If they are not hardy all the way to Oklahoma city, I am quite confident they could make it to at least the Red River, if not a little farther.

I agree, Id be curious to see one planted on a southern facing slope in arbuckle mountains in southern Oklahoma. I also know of probably 10 in the Dallas area that survived and have over 20 feet of trunk and there are a few probably 40 years old in Waco I’ve seen that are flawless. I’ll be contacting you for Filifera seeds at some point as I’m living up in Dallas now and want to start growing some to guerrila plant around the area 

[NBTX11]

2 hours ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

I agree, Id be curious to see one planted on a southern facing slope in arbuckle mountains in southern Oklahoma. I also know of probably 10 in the Dallas area that survived and have over 20 feet of trunk and there are a few probably 40 years old in Waco I’ve seen that are flawless. I’ll be contacting you for Filifera seeds at some point as I’m living up in Dallas now and want to start growing some to guerrila plant around the area 

Yep, replant Dallas with Filifera and Sabal Mexicana.  Several years ago, I went and tossed a bunch of Filifera seeds around town.  A lot of them came up and are quite big now.  I need to do that again.

[knikfar]

18 hours ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

If you can keep moisture out of the crown during winter it’s got a good shot of lasting longer term.That’s really going to be the main challenge I think. I would definitely plant it on a slight mound too so it can stay dryer when you’re getting 2.5-3 inches of rain each month in winter with cooler cloudier days. 

Temps most winters in Raleigh shouldn’t phase it, but for those years that get a bit colder than normal, having it near a southern facing wall would also help keep it a bit warmer and also
From what I know Raleigh is like 60% trees which helps protect stuff from winds which helps. 
 

Almost need one of these portable jobsite spray booths to keep it dry 

otherwise could build almost like a table of sorts with 4 thin posts and then a cut down piece of plywood on top connecting the 4 posts that would protect from overhead moisture and still allow light in from sides

Keeping moisture out of the crown would be a challenge when it gets larger. You're right about the percentage of tree cover. But I'm one of the few in my neighborhood that has all deciduous trees, no pines. So the canopy wouldn't help much in the winter. On the bright side, I don't have clay soil like many in the piedmont do. I have sandy silty soil that doesn't hold moisture at all. So that could help. 

[JLM]

On 6/29/2022 at 7:50 PM, NBTX11 said:

Speaking of Oklahoma palms, anyone know how the Durant Sabals fared?  The ones at the big casino in Durant OK. 

Looking at the recent pictures posted to google at the casino, there are sabals everywhere and i cant seem to tell whether or not they are new plantings. They dont look new, they look kinda rough but they are growing as of June 2022.

[DreaminAboutPalms]

The Sabal Mexicanas at winstar in thackerville are all gone