Mini palm tour of Galveston

[surgeon83]

My friend flew in this weekend and I had a mini-vacation without even leaving the island.  We rented segways downtown, went to the waterpark, and shot some pictures at Moody Gardens afterwards.  Here are the photos with palms:

[surgeon83]

Dates from Moody Gardens parking lot:

[Jeff in St Pete]

Those segways look like fun!  What a great way to ride around looking at palms!  Thanks for posting.

[surgeon83]

Jeff, they really are fun.  They can go 11mph and turn on a dime.  We made some videos showing how fast they go, maybe if I can figure it out, I could post it in the off-topic section.  They were a great deal too; $35/hr and he just let us loose to enjoy them!

[Jeff in St Pete]

Please do post it if you get a chance.  They have them in downtown St Petersburg FL also.  I have seen tours come through the palm arboretum along the waterfront.  I thought about trying it sometime, but they all seem like organized tours.  I want to just get on one and go where I want to!

[epicure3]

Nice. I love those crotons.

[Kris]

Phoenix and other palms looks great ! thanks for posting those lovely stils.

lots of love,

Kris  

[surgeon83]

Thanks for the compliments, everybody.  The pictures are not the best, but for once, taking pictures of palms was not my priority  ::   There were hundreds of beautiful P. dactyliferas at Moody Gardens and all full of orange fruit, but not quite ripe yet (yes, I did try one off the ground, and it was sweet but still hard).  Made me hungry just looking at them, and I shall return in one month to stock up on fruit!

I posted a video of me riding a segway in the palapa, for all who are interested.  

Brian

[Scott]

Brian - great tour! I like the last pic in post #2 - and Arenga - right?

Very nice. Thanks for sharing

[surgeon83]

The Arenga was my favorite (I assume engleri).  I am so getting one of those for my next house.  Somehow I found a bunch of the seeds in my pocket when I got home ??

There were so many other beautiful palms at this place, which I have photographed before, but I didn't want to drag my friend around for 2 hours while I tried to get updated pictures of them all (he doesn't care about palms...)  It would be nice to have a good palm friend for those types of activities.

[waykoolplantz]

(surgeon83 @ Sep. 06 2007,11:12)

QUOTE

(he doesn't care about palms...)  

you must get your friend infected with Palmus Lunatika...as you know..you are restricted on the number of non-palm friends

[FRITO]

those dacts look great, I really am starting to like that palm more and more. the enitre Phoenix species is growing on me actually.

I spotted some date palms today on FSU campus, orange fruits hanging like the ones pictured. when they fall, how long until you know they are ripe?  (when they taste good?) haha

that engleri also looks nice, another one I am trying to germinate but I think I have bad seed if they dont come up soon. any idea how long Arenga usually takes to germinate?

Luke~

[_Keith]

Surgeon83, as I recall you moved to Flo-reed-ah. Anybody around to give us an update on these palms.

[Collectorpalms]

On 9/3/2007 at 9:51 AM, surgeon83 said:

Dates from Moody Gardens parking lot:

 

 

 

I have wondered what kind of Recovery the Arengas have made at Moody Gardens? The one at Zilker Gardens was killed to the ground, as so were mine but have made a (slight) recovery.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Collectorpalms

[GoatLockerGuns]

On 2/7/2022 at 12:56 AM, Collectorpalms said:

I have wondered what kind of Recovery the Arengas have made at Moody Gardens?

I am heading there this weekend (I am actually spending two nights at the Moody Gardens Hotel).  If you know the precise location where they were planted (it is a large complex), I will look for them and let you know.

[Collectorpalms]

8 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

I am heading there this weekend (I am actually spending two nights at the Moody Gardens Hotel).  If you know the precise location where they were planted (it is a large complex), I will look for them and let you know.

Thanks. Here you go. Was headed there myself but had a change of plans. the one in Austin came back pretty good, but those at Moody were huge. 
One by the first building front entrance as you come into complex…. And I am pretty sure another by outdoor bird cage between Discovery and the Rainforest pyramids. 

 

[GoatLockerGuns]

9 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

Thanks. Here you go. Was headed there myself but had a change of plans. the one in Austin came back pretty good, but those at Moody were huge. 
One by the first building front entrance as you come into complex…. And I am pretty sure another by outdoor bird cage between Discovery and the Rainforest pyramids.

I will check them out.  I wanted to see how the Acoelorraphe wrightii planted in front of the Rain Forest Pyramid did as well.  Here is a picture I took of them back in 2017:

There was a nice clump of Acoelorraphe wrightii planted on the north portion of the Riverwalk prior to the freeze.  I went back last summer, but could not find them.  I assume they did not make it, and were removed by the city (given the Riverwalk tourist value, they are quick to cut down/re-plant/re-populate there). 

I will be bringing my DSLR, so hopefully I can get some good shots while I am there.

[Collectorpalms]

12 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

I will check them out.  I wanted to see how the Acoelorraphe wrightii planted in front of the Rain Forest Pyramid did as well.  Here is a picture I took of them back in 2017:

There was a nice clump of Acoelorraphe wrightii planted on the north portion of the Riverwalk prior to the freeze.  I went back last summer, but could not find them.  I assume they did not make it, and were removed by the city (given the Riverwalk tourist value, they are quick to cut down/re-plant/re-populate there). 

I will be bringing my DSLR, so hopefully I can get some good shots while I am there.

That will be iffy. Mine came back from roots. But typically lose trunks at around 20F. It was just below 20F there.... according to the one in charge they recorded 18F. But the airport official temp next door was 20F, I wonder with the power out, if that 20F was legit.

Lady palms, Queen, Mules, Everglades all on the edge because the wind is so much worse on the Island. 25F killed queens on the island in 2018, but the ones tucked out of the wind at Moody were perfectly fine.

Also there is a very fast growing Brahea I am not sure which one, at the bottom of those steps. Id love to know what it is and if its alive.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Collectorpalms

[GoatLockerGuns]

On 2/24/2022 at 1:41 PM, Collectorpalms said:

One by the first building front entrance as you come into complex…. And I am pretty sure another by outdoor bird cage between Discovery and the Rainforest pyramids. 

I found the clump of Arenga engleri by the ballroom entrance (on Hope Blvd).  It looked good.  It appears to have suffered some die-back, but recovered strong.

I did not see any clump between the Rain Forest and Discovery pyramids.  I did find a smaller clump on the back side of the hotel though:

On 2/24/2022 at 1:59 PM, Collectorpalms said:

That will be iffy. Mine came back from roots. But typically lose trunks at around 20F. It was just below 20F there.... according to the one in charge they recorded 18F. But the airport official temp next door was 20F, I wonder with the power out, if that 20F was legit.

Lady palms, Queen, Mules, Everglades all on the edge because the wind is so much worse on the Island. 25F killed queens on the island in 2018, but the ones tucked out of the wind at Moody were perfectly fine.

Also there is a very fast growing Brahea I am not sure which one, at the bottom of those steps. Id love to know what it is and if its alive.

The Acoelorraphe wrightii  by the front entrance of the Rain Forest pyramid did die back; however, I think those are new fronds recovering from the clump:

Did not notice that Brahea you were referring to, but there was a mature Brahea armata by the hotel entrance that looked good.  I saw what appeared to be good looking mature Mules around as well.  I also saw about 4 or 5 mature Queens up against the back wall of the hotel.  If they were freeze survivors (and not mature post-freeze transplants), then they were looking really good (all things considered).  Most of the 50' plus tall Phoenix dactylifera and Washingtonia robusta in the parking lots pulled through.  I saw a whole lot of nice looking mature Livistona chinensis and Butia odorata that survived as well.  There were definitely some casualties though.  I saw quite a few cut stumps around the gardens (many looked like palm trunk stumps to me).  Since Moody Gardens is a big tourist area for the island (and the "tropical" feel being a big part of the draw), I did really not expect to see any dead palm trunks sticking up around the grounds anyway.  I did see some of that around town though; however, it was definitely not as prevalent as here in San Antonio.  All and all, I thought Galveston looked like it made it through pretty well.

[Xenon]

13 hours ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

I found the clump of Arenga engleri by the ballroom entrance (on Hope Blvd).  It looked good.  It appears to have suffered some die-back, but recovered strong.

*Massive dieback, it was huge

Imo Galveston suffered a truly landscape changing freeze. All of the zone 10 stuff that hung on for the last 20+ years perished (and there was a lot of it). It only looks "good" if you compare it to Houston or San Antonio...but Galveston is "numerically zone 10a". The biggest palm stumps are probably the big royals 

Yes the queens were there along an often forgotten about royal palm (the ones up against the pyramids were more prominent)

Pics taken a few days before Feb 2021 Palmaggedon

[GoatLockerGuns]

6 hours ago, Xenon said:

It only looks "good" if you compare it to Houston or San Antonio...but Galveston is "numerically zone 10a".

I concur (and can attest) that Galveston does look good compared to San Antonio; however, I do not believe that Galveston was ever rated as a 10a Hardiness Zone by the USDA.  Here is a USDA map of the area:

I think the only rated 10a Hardiness Zone in Texas is around the Brownsville / East RGV area.  Galveston Island is rated 9b (barely), on par with Corpus Christi and most of the Texas gulf coast.  I think that rating is probably due (at least in part) to its coastal adjacency.  IMHO, anyone growing 10a palms in Galveston was truly zone pushing.  I think the greater tragedy of the 2021 freeze event was the loss of palms that were actually rated for the zones that they were planted in.  I lot of folks (including myself) lost palms that they assumed were "bullet proof" in their areas/zones.  I live in 8b (about a mile west of the 9a border) in Bexar County, and I experience overnight lows (more than one night) in the mid to upper single digits Fahrenheit (7b Hardiness Zone).  That is two zones below my "official" rated zone.  For example, your second pick of the back side of Moody Gardens Hotel shows some nice looking mature Syagrus romanzoffiana, Livistona chinensis, and Phoenix roebelenii.  I have a similar picture from last weekend that shows some of those same Syagrus romanzoffiana and Livistona chinensis in recovery mode, but those Phoenix roebelenii were not present (so I did not take a picture).  Going strictly by their Hardiness Zone rating, those Phoenix roebelenii were not "zone pushing" per se; yet, they did not apparently survive.  The same could be said for some of the Washingtonia robusta dead trunks that I saw scattered around town (although, many Washingtonia sps. in Galveston did survive, more so than in San Antonio for sure).

[Xenon]

3 hours ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

I concur (and can attest) that Galveston does look good compared to San Antonio; however, I do not believe that Galveston was ever rated as a 10a Hardiness Zone by the USDA.  Here is a USDA map of the area:

1976-2005 includes all of the 80s freezes so the average is lower, ~28F (still very solid 9B)

1991-2020 averages ~33F

even 1992-2021 is still ~32F

 

Livistona chinensis was never in any real danger imo, survival in Houston metro is very high as long as you don't head too far north or west. How did it fare in San Antonio? 

There are also some surviving Bismarckia in Galveston 

[GoatLockerGuns]

1 minute ago, Xenon said:

Livistona chinensis was never in any real danger imo, survival in Houston metro is very high as long as you don't head too far north or west. How did it fare in San Antonio? 

Concur.  Livistona chinensis is a solid 9a palm (possibly 8b given the right conditions). Hit or miss with it here in San Antonio; really depended on other environmental factors (i.e., metro heat bubble, location relative to buildings and water, radiant heat, etc.).  Many bit the dust last year; however, a few notable survivors.  The ones along the Riverwalk seems to fair better on average (even a few juveniles).  There is a Taco Cabana on the Southside (Southcross) that had 5 mature specimens before the freeze.  Only one survived, but that one came back strong.

[GoatLockerGuns]

10 minutes ago, Xenon said:

1976-2005 includes all of the 80s freezes so the average is lower, ~28F (still very solid 9B)

1991-2020 averages ~33F

even 1992-2021 is still ~32F

No argument there; seems like you have done your homework on the averages.  But all those years combined are not even the proverbial "blink of an eye" climatologically speaking.  If last February taught us anything, it is that averages (and USDA Hardiness Zones in general) do not mean squat when you are exposed to a few days of a "freak" cold snap.  The way I see it, if I have a recorded historical low in my area, then that is my "worst case scenario" for a risk determination when planting.  If 20+ years of growth/enjoyment is worth the risk (which I believe it is), then I am going for it.  It is just easy to get complacent during those 20+ plus years, which makes it really suck when the inevitable happens.

[Xenon]

2 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

No argument there; seems like you have done your homework on the averages.  But all those years combined are not even the proverbial "blink of an eye" climatologically speaking.  If last February taught us anything, it is that averages (and USDA Hardiness Zones in general) do not mean squat when you are exposed to a few days of a "freak" cold snap.  The way I see it, if I have a recorded historical low in my area, then that is my "worst case scenario" for a risk determination when planting.  If 20+ years of growth/enjoyment is worth the risk (which I believe it is), then I am going for it.  It is just easy to get complacent during those 20+ plus years, which makes it really suck when the inevitable happens.

I would hesitate to call Galveston zone 10 as well hence "numerical zone 10". Nonetheless, Galveston has an exceptionally good microclimate not just from the Gulf but with its system of bays. You'd have to reach Rockport on the water or Port Aransas to find a similar zone from what I've seen imo. 

But yes, if you can grow this for 20 years of course you would . This was across from Moody Gardens on Tiki Island. Hopefully the kings I got from you look 1/3 as good one day haha

[GoatLockerGuns]

9 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Galveston has an exceptionally good microclimate not just from the Gulf but with its system of bays.

Definitely concur.  I was really shocked at what was growing there (particularly the mature specimens) the first time I visited.

9 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Hopefully the kings I got from you look 1/3 as good one day

I hope you get good growth on those; and that they make it.  I kept three for myself, and all three are currently doing well.  Here is a picture of the parent (from Fort Myers, Florida):

[Collectorpalms]

Moody Gardens Spring 2021