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What to plant here?


Pee Dee Palms

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So, I have this area on the western side of my house that gets sun from about 12:30-1:00 to sometime later in the evening (maybe 6:30 to 7:00). It gets slightly dappled sun in the later evening but mostly full sun. A few palms come to mind but they all like shade. I really want to utilize this area as it gets nice wind protection from all sides, a concrete pathway near it, eaves that create a bit of frost protection, and a nice reflective wall. I really think this is one of the best microclimates around my house, but I just don't know what palm would be good to plant here. I would prefer a palm that is rated for 9a, as I would like to try to zone push something here. So if anyone would like to make a suggestion, go for it. 

 

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Edited by General Sylvester D. Palm
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55 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

@General Sylvester D. Palm

not a palm but a red star or torbay dazzler cordyline australis would look really good there. Or maybe a persian shield although that may be a more difficult push

I was thinking about something like that. I'd just like to try to push some small palm. I may check a few local nurseries. I'll probably look at some websites like Jungle Music. We shall see. 

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12 minutes ago, General Sylvester D. Palm said:

I was thinking about something like that. I'd just like to try to push some small palm. I may check a few local nurseries. I'll probably look at some websites like Jungle Music. We shall see. 

I have some small chamaedorea radicalis and microspadix if you're interested. I thought about them after you left the other day. 

The radicalis would do better with the amount of sun that area gets

Edited by DAVEinMB
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5 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

I have some small chamaedorea radicalis and microspadix if you're interested. I thought about them after you left the other day. 

The radicalis would do better with the amount of sun that area gets

Oh absolutely! I would definitely be interested in a few of the radicalis.

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1 hour ago, DAVEinMB said:

I have some small chamaedorea radicalis and microspadix if you're interested. I thought about them after you left the other day. 

The radicalis would do better with the amount of sun that area gets

That was going to be my recommendation but Speedy Dave said it first! Chamaedorea would be real pretty there.

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I was gonna sarcastically say a Royal and follow that up with a sincere comment about a chamaedorea but yeah. Go Radicalis. 

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9a zone push... small space... heat and sun... Acoelorrhaphe wrightii, Rhapis excelsa or humilis, Phoenix reclinata...

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1 hour ago, JohnAndSancho said:

I was gonna sarcastically say a Royal and follow that up with a sincere comment about a chamaedorea but yeah. Go Radicalis. 

I was about to say Jubaea chilensis but my reputation for smartassery is bad enough as it is.

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2 minutes ago, Manalto said:

I was about to say Jubaea chilensis but my reputation for smartassery is bad enough as it is.

I mean to be fair, he could plant a seedling there and it wouldn't be an issue until 2073 

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If you were to replace the mulch with rock, you would have a little more thermal benefit for the microclimate effect.  Wouldn't change minimum temps but would probably make a difference in overall highs when the sun is out.  And would release heat for a bit after that area is shaded out for the evening. 

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2 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

If you were to replace the mulch with rock, you would have a little more thermal benefit for the microclimate effect.  Wouldn't change minimum temps but would probably make a difference in overall highs when the sun is out.  And would release heat for a bit after that area is shaded out for the evening. 

I was thinking of adding rocks myself. But I suppose this effect would depend on the color of the rocks. For chillier days when you'd need the extra heat, wouldn't white rocks just reflect most of the sun back in the atmosphere, while dark soil or mulch would absorb more radiation? Dark colored rocks might be preferred I suppose.

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Black Rock should conduct more heat than white but regardless of color, stone has higher thermal conductivity than wood. 

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Holy moly! Wasn't expecting this to blow up as much as it did. Yeah, the rock idea is definitely a good idea. What would be ideal is black rocks. Red rocks would work too, but since all around the house is black mulch, it would look funny. I am starting to worry about a Chamaedorea radicalis. That area gets really hot and sunny. It is on the edge of a south and western wall which might be too much sun. I also think it is a waist of a nice microclimate, considering radicalis is rated for 8b. I was honestly debating on a Queen and just keeping it trimmed. I was also debating on a Pygmy Date but, they are a solid 9b palm. Right now I am scouring the internet for more kinds of small/medium sized palms rated for 9a.

Edited by General Sylvester D. Palm
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37 minutes ago, General Sylvester D. Palm said:

Holy moly! Wasn't expecting this to blow up as much as it did. Yeah, the rock idea is definitely a good idea. What would be ideal is black rocks. Red rocks would work too, but since all around the house is black mulch, it would look funny. I am starting to worry about a Chamaedorea radicalis. That area gets really hot and sunny. It is on the edge of a south and western wall which might be too much sun. I also think it is a waist of a nice microclimate, considering radicalis is rated for 8b. I was honestly debating on a Queen and just keeping it trimmed. I was also debating on a Pygmy Date but, they are a solid 9b palm. Right now I am scouring the internet for more kinds of small/medium sized palms rated for 9a.

If you have the room I would say queen over pygmy based on what I've seen in my garden

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20 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

If you have the room I would say queen over pygmy based on what I've seen in my garden

I was planning on putting a Uruguay Queen there. I bought 3 and they sent me an email later saying they are out of stock. Pretty bummed about that.

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That area looks too small for a queen. 

Reclinata is more hardy than roebelinii, and in my opinion a better looking palm.  They are bigger of course but if you trim the suckers, it would be a long time before you'd have to worry about its size.  Except for maybe tieing the fronds up to keep it from impeding the walkway until/if it gets overhead, but given the proximity to the sidewalk it looks like this may be a problem with anything other than maybe the Chamaedorea or Rhapis option.   I'm not sure how much realestate you've got between the house and sidewalk but maybe the only way to mitigate that is to get something with 7 or 8 feet of trunk. 

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31 minutes ago, Jesse PNW said:

That area looks too small for a queen. 

Reclinata is more hardy than roebelinii, and in my opinion a better looking palm.  They are bigger of course but if you trim the suckers, it would be a long time before you'd have to worry about its size.  Except for maybe tieing the fronds up to keep it from impeding the walkway until/if it gets overhead, but given the proximity to the sidewalk it looks like this may be a problem with anything other than maybe the Chamaedorea or Rhapis option.   I'm not sure how much realestate you've got between the house and sidewalk but maybe the only way to mitigate that is to get something with 7 or 8 feet of trunk. 

Yea, a Phoenix would need to be tall already to not be a menace there. Looks like it would make the sidewalk impassable otherwise

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26 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

Yea, a Phoenix would need to be tall already to not be a menace there. Looks like it would make the sidewalk impassable otherwise

Yeah, I don't want the delivery man to get attacked by a palm tree.

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1 hour ago, Jesse PNW said:

That area looks too small for a queen. 

Reclinata is more hardy than roebelinii, and in my opinion a better looking palm.  They are bigger of course but if you trim the suckers, it would be a long time before you'd have to worry about its size.  Except for maybe tieing the fronds up to keep it from impeding the walkway until/if it gets overhead, but given the proximity to the sidewalk it looks like this may be a problem with anything other than maybe the Chamaedorea or Rhapis option.   I'm not sure how much realestate you've got between the house and sidewalk but maybe the only way to mitigate that is to get something with 7 or 8 feet of trunk. 

I've heard some pretty conflicting information on the P. reclinata. I've heard that it is hardy to 9a or 9b.

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Conflicting info exists for every palm I've ever looked into.  I consult the freeze damage section for a baseline, then decide to experiment anyway. 

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So, I am definitely thinking about a Chamaedorea radicalis, but I am quite worried about the sun. I was also wondering if I would be wasting a microclimate since the palm is hardy to zone 8b. I've heard that it likes to be in cool shade, not blazing heat, which is what that area would get. Do any of you think that could be a problem? I don't want it to just live, I want it to thrive. If any of you have a radicalis in a similar spot, please let me know how it is doing. I really can't think of any other palm that would be good for that area. I definitely want to use that area for a palm, but I just don't have any good palms in mind.

Edited by General Sylvester D. Palm
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38 minutes ago, General Sylvester D. Palm said:

So, I am definitely thinking about a Chamaedorea radicalis, but I am quite worried about the sun. I was also wondering if I would be wasting a microclimate since the palm is hardy to zone 8b. I've heard that it likes to be in cool shade, not blazing heat, which is what that area would get. Do any of you think that could be a problem? I don't want it to just live, I want it to thrive. If any of you have a radicalis in a similar spot, please let me know how it is doing. I really can't think of any other palm that would be good for that area. I definitely want to use that area for a palm, but I just don't have any good palms in mind.

C. Plumosa can take a little more sun, and the name escapes me but Phil has another chamaedorea on sale that he says takes more sun than Plumosa. 

 

I do not know the cold tolerances of these though and I just remembered I have the advantage (and agony) of bringing all my palms inside when it's cold. Derp. 

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From what I have read, radicalis is quite unique in that it is not only the most cold-hardy Chamaedorea, but it also tolerates more sun than most in the same genus.  In my personal opinion, its only downfall is that it is single-trunking and not a suckering palm.  And, somewhat similar to Phoenix roebelinii, its fronds are thin and sparse, which means it looks best planted in clusters. 

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8 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

tolerates more sun than most in the same genus.

See, this is what worries me. I know it tolerates it, but it won't necessarily thrive. I also really don't want to just throw away a nice microclimate. It definitely would look nice there though. Maybe a few of them right there.

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10 minutes ago, General Sylvester D. Palm said:

See, this is what worries me. I know it tolerates it, but it won't necessarily thrive. I also really don't want to just throw away a nice microclimate. It definitely would look nice there though. Maybe a few of them right there.

If you aren't in a big hurry to get something in the ground there, come mid June I should be able to give you a good idea of what they'll look like in a sunny, more exposed location. 

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5 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

If you aren't in a big hurry to get something in the ground there, come mid June I should be able to give you a good idea of what they'll look like in a sunny, more exposed location. 

That might work. I'll let you know if I find anything else. I'll still definitely want to get a radicalis eventually. Even if it was going on the north side.

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Alright well, this was probably a bad idea but only time will tell. I tried my best to get the one with the most erect fronds, and I think I definitely succeeded in that. I don't think I've ever seen a more erect queen palm. I believe this is caused by genetics, not sure if I'm right. I really hope it is genetics and it won't end up with extremely bushy and recurved fronds. So if any of you know if it is genetics, let me know. 

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1 minute ago, ZPalms said:

How about b. alfrideie :floor:

no he needs a Corypha Umbraculifera

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Lucas

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Just now, Little Tex said:

no he needs a Corypha Umbraculifera

SO TRUE, LOOL!!! :floor:

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6 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

How about b. alfrideie :floor:

 

4 minutes ago, Little Tex said:

no he needs a Corypha Umbraculifera

Nah, Ceroxylon quindiuense.

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10 minutes ago, General Sylvester D. Palm said:

 

Nah, Ceroxylon quindiuense.

Your house would be on barrowed time with a Corypha Umbraculifera but Ceroxylon quindiuense if it died would be a struggle of itself:floor:

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Queens grow erect while young, but once a decent trunk is established they slow down vertically. It will eventually have a nice full crown. Should be okay in that location.

I was going to say Pygmy date, way easier to protect in cold dips.

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6 hours ago, D Palm said:

Queens grow erect while young, but once a decent trunk is established they slow down vertically. It will eventually have a nice full crown. Should be okay in that location.

I was going to say Pygmy date, way easier to protect in cold dips.

Interesting, I have one about the same size that has much more curvy fronds. I was debating on a pygmy but since they are 9b I really didn't want to risk it. I've heard bad stories even when protected of pgymy dates in 8b.

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In my observations, the foliage of most mature queen is a couple degrees more hardy. Pygmy’s are so easy to protect long term though. A house down the road purchased a b&b 4’ multi trunk, has fried some year at low 20’s but always comes back. They do 0 protection. Some years were it doesn’t dip below 24 it looks untouched.

The multi trunk screams tropical oasis imo.

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25 minutes ago, D Palm said:

In my observations, the foliage of most mature queen is a couple degrees more hardy. Pygmy’s are so easy to protect long term though. A house down the road purchased a b&b 4’ multi trunk, has fried some year at low 20’s but always comes back. They do 0 protection. Some years were it doesn’t dip below 24 it looks untouched.

The multi trunk screams tropical oasis imo.

Well, who says I can't rip that bush next to the queen out? ;) I was definitely thinking of a pygmy in the area where that bush is. The eaves of the house completely protect it from frost. A nearby nursery sells single pygmys which would be perfect for that area. Only issue now is, most of the palms that I have around the house aren't hardy to this zone. All of them are 9a.

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1 hour ago, D Palm said:

In my observations, the foliage of most mature queen is a couple degrees more hardy. Pygmy’s are so easy to protect long term though. A house down the road purchased a b&b 4’ multi trunk, has fried some year at low 20’s but always comes back. They do 0 protection. Some years were it doesn’t dip below 24 it looks untouched.

The multi trunk screams tropical oasis imo.

Pygmies don't like our climate at all. You would almost need to keep them covered all winter long to get more than a couple seasons out of them. We get way too many cold fronts that bring heavy rain accompanied with temps in the 40s or lower. They are a 9b rated palm but 9b winters here are enough to put them on life support. 

But with all that said, I love to see that one success story amidst failure so @General Sylvester D. Palm if you give it a go, keep us posted

Edited by DAVEinMB
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47 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

Pygmies don't like our climate at all. You would almost need to keep them covered all winter long to get more than a couple seasons out of them. We get way too many cold fronts that bring heavy rain accompanied with temps in the 40s or lower. They are a 9b rated palm but 9b winters here are enough to put them on life support. 

But with all that said, I love to see that one success story amidst failure so @General Sylvester D. Palm if you give it a go, keep us posted

Yeah I really don't think it is worth a try. I've heard way more failures than I have success stories. But, I may find a good deal on one and if I decide to pull the trigger, I'll definitely keep ya'll posted. The queens are already going to be tough to keep alive, so I will definitely keep everyone posted on those too. 

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