West Coast Experiement

[Zach K]

Calling all PNW folks.

Its pretty clear by now that Brookings, OR has some astounding stuff growing there (and places as far north as Coos Bay), however has anyone experimented with anything more epic along the northern coast? If so, anyone willing to share? I might have to find an area there to guerilla plant some goodies...

According to the 2012 hardiness zone map, areas like Lincoln City are comfortably positioned in Zone 9 (I heard rumors that areas surrounding devils lake are even higher thanks to a sweet microclimate) which begs the question, could more exotic things like CIDP's and more tender varieties or Trachys, Butias and even Washingtonias confidently grow there? I see very mature Cordylines there, why couldn't a large CIDP or Australian tree fern join the party? 

Would Seaside/Cannon beach/Tillamook/Lincoln City be too much of a stretch? 

 

 

 

[CodyORB]

Somebody is growing a Dypsis Decipiens (considered the hardiest large crownshaft palm) in a Washington state 9a(ish) microclimate, although it will take a very long time before it is large and trunking:

 

That thread overall has an excellent collection of more exotic species!

Edited March 7, 2022 by CodyORB
was -> is and detail

[ShadyDan]

CIDPs and Butias are grown as far north as Tofino on Vancouver Island. Heck, my Butia on the East side of the Island looks just fine even after the extreme winter we had with no protection. Tofino is extremely mild though and there are many large Cordylines all throughout town.

Video of an enthusiasts garden in Tofino:

 

[Chester B]

If you see mature Cordylines that's a solid zone 9.  If I had a place out that way you bet your bottom dollar I would be trying those you have listed.  How often do those coastal cities go below freezing?  Not very often and barely below freezing in any given year based on my personal observations.  That extra mountain range between them and ocean locks in a lot of that mild air, it's pretty tough for cold air from the continent to flow over both the Cascades and the Coast ranges.

[Zach K]

Sounds like it’s a pretty safe bet they could make it there.

 

I actually just got off the phone with Siri and sons nursery (corner of French Prairie Rd and McKay Rd) in St. Paul, OR about their palms they have out front and they said they have had those in the ground, unprotected for over three years. I guess time will tell once some of the winter damage starts to appear but just by the looks of it, the date palms look bad if not dead, the butias look amazing, the queen palm has green growth in the middle, the CIDP (not pictured) has no damage at all on the leaves, and the Washingtonias are ehh not too bad.

These pictures are from today (3/7/22)

I think it’s safe to say the coast will be safe.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Zach K

[Chester B]

I know those palms, I've shot videos of them before.  I think that's a colder spot than Portland, further down the valley they seem to get pretty cold nights, while we're still above freezing.

 

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Chester B

[Collectorpalms]

You can look back at google maps. They have tried over several years. They seem to just keep replacing them. They are not flourishing for the most part. 

[Zach K]

3 minutes ago, Chester B said:

I know those palms, I've shot videos of them before.  I think that's a colder spot than Portland, further down the valley they seem to get pretty cold nights, while we're still above freezing.

I've seen those videos actually. Good stuff. I guess here's a little update then haha.

But be that as it may, it looks to be dryer than the Portland metro area... maybe that's how the CIDP and Washy's are still alive?

[Chester B]

14 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

You can look back at google maps. They have tried over several years. They seem to just keep replacing them. They are not flourishing for the most part. 

Yes they have lost palms there before. One year they had regular date palms. I’ve seen washies there too. This latest round of palms is their most adventurous. The Butias, Trachys and probably the cycads will be fine, the rest are a little more adventurous.  
 

At the coast I could see these palms doing well. I would be curious to see how a queen would do with the lack of heat. Summer days are mild usually in the low to mid 70s and winters around 50.

[Las Palmas Norte]

18 hours ago, ShadyDan said:

... my Butia on the East side of the Island looks just fine even after the extreme winter we had with no protection. ...

Mine is toasted to a nice crispy brown. I insulated the crown with burlap, but to no avail.  I've used hydrogen peroxide down the meristem, but will the spring be warm enough to start growth if there's anything left to grow?

[Chester B]

13 minutes ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Mine is toasted to a nice crispy brown. I insulated the crown with burlap, but to no avail.  I've used hydrogen peroxide down the meristem, but will the spring be warm enough to start growth if there's anything left to grow?

It seems like you are a little beyond the range where they can be reliably grown, I think even in Seattle there are issues unless you're in a good microclimate.  If it's all brown I'd be surprised if it has time to recover before next winter especially with your lack of summer heat.  I know even some people around here doubt they are reliable in my area, but I disagree with this.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Chester B

[Las Palmas Norte]

12 minutes ago, Chester B said:

It seems like you are a little beyond the range where they can be reliably grown, I think even in Seattle there are issues unless you're in a good microclimate.  If it's all brown I'd be surprised if it has time to recover before next winter especially with your lack of summer heat.  I know even some people around here doubt they are reliable in my area, but I disagree with this.

It (Butia) certainly is a marginal palm. I expected to have frond damage / loss, but not with the center spears protected. I'm begining to think my heavy soil has a bearing on the limits Butia can manage with the cold. I had other Butia at my previous location which managed the same cold but the soil was very free draining. 

[Chester B]

9 minutes ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

It (Butia) certainly is a marginal palm. I expected to have frond damage / loss, but not with the center spears protected. I'm begining to think my heavy soil has a bearing on the limits Butia can manage with the cold. I had other Butia at my previous location which managed the same cold but the soil was very free draining. 

I do think that's a factor that affects cold hardiness as well.  Mine are in pretty sandy soil.

[Collectorpalms]

That area has a high water table. The true dates will never be long term. I think Sabal Palms given 100% full sun ( is a must even in Texas) while slow would do better long term than some of those palm. They have learned to mound a lot of the ones they are currently trying. Sabal Mexicana is much faster than Sabal Palmetto. Maybe some other Sabals should be tried. A sabal in Shade even in heat just is sloooow.

The sabals will like the high water table.

By the way the Conifers there I am jealous of.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Collectorpalms

[Chester B]

20 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

By the way the Conifers there I am jealous of

One man's trash is another man's treasure, I guess.  

Those thuja are just an eyesore to me.  The only nice conifers out this way are the Redwoods and the Araucaria.  

You are correct the dates are not long for this world, but Sabals do ok however you need to start with big ones to really make it worth your while.  I had not heard Mexicana were faster before, that is good to know!

Edited March 9, 2022 by Chester B

[Collectorpalms]

48 minutes ago, Chester B said:

One man's trash is another man's treasure, I guess.  

Those thuja are just an eyesore to me.  The only nice conifers out this way are the Redwoods and the Araucaria.  

You are correct the dates are not long for this world, but Sabals do ok however you need to start with big ones to really make it worth your while.  I had not heard Mexicana were faster before, that is good to know!

This is what I am talking about, you just cannot get the color and texture with plants here where I live.  Although I have lived in the zones 4 and 5 in the midwest its not the same as the PNW, where you can mix in a few palms into the mix.

I am having to redo my whole landscape, and trying the think of ideas of how to imitate just a tad. Those that do grow here are so slow, and expensive since they have to be trucked in. The daily high and low in the summer is not extreme enough for them to flourish. 

 

[Chester B]

26 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

This is what I am talking about, you just cannot get the color and texture with plants here where I live.  Although I have lived in the zones 4 and 5 in the midwest its not the same as the PNW, where you can mix in a few palms into the mix.

I am having to redo my whole landscape, and trying the think of ideas of how to imitate just a tad. Those that do grow here are so slow, and expensive since they have to be trucked in. The daily high and low in the summer is not extreme enough for them to flourish. 

 

I appreciate that you like that style, but I don't - not one bit.  If I bought a house and that garden was there I'd have dumpster out there week one.  You should see the conifers and rhodos after last summer, burnt real bad.  Our summers are starting to get too hot and dry for some of these plants if you can believe it.    

[Collectorpalms]

11 minutes ago, Chester B said:

I appreciate that you like that style, but I don't - not one bit.  If I bought a house and that garden was there I'd have dumpster out there week one.  You should see the conifers and rhodos after last summer, burnt real bad.  Our summers are starting to get too hot and dry for some of these plants if you can believe it.    

When you move away from it, you sometimes miss it. I know when I first went to the Dallas Arboretum, I thought Boring, trees... where are the palms. lol. Well now I love it. They have a little of everything for everyone, except their palm collection that was built up over years was decimated. I am going to check it out in about two weeks since I saw it last spring. Maybe they will replant.

[RJ]

25 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

When you move away from it, you sometimes miss it. I know when I first went to the Dallas Arboretum, I thought Boring, trees... where are the palms. lol. Well now I love it. They have a little of everything for everyone, except their palm collection that was built up over years was decimated. I am going to check it out in about two weeks since I saw it last spring. Maybe they will replant.

So true…  But I moved from the north east.  Never thought I would miss a white pine (Ugg drips sap everywhere) or fir trees that I can’t grow… low and behold I kinda miss them …. 

[MarkbVet]

On 3/7/2022 at 1:41 PM, Zach K said:

Calling all PNW folks.

Its pretty clear by now that Brookings, OR has some astounding stuff growing there (and places as far north as Coos Bay), however has anyone experimented with anything more epic along the northern coast? If so, anyone willing to share? I might have to find an area there to guerilla plant some goodies...

According to the 2012 hardiness zone map, areas like Lincoln City are comfortably positioned in Zone 9 (I heard rumors that areas surrounding devils lake are even higher thanks to a sweet microclimate) which begs the question, could more exotic things like CIDP's and more tender varieties or Trachys, Butias and even Washingtonias confidently grow there? I see very mature Cordylines there, why couldn't a large CIDP or Australian tree fern join the party? 

Would Seaside/Cannon beach/Tillamook/Lincoln City be too much of a stretch? 

 

 

 

 

On 3/7/2022 at 1:41 PM, Zach K said:

Calling all PNW folks.

Its pretty clear by now that Brookings, OR has some astounding stuff growing there (and places as far north as Coos Bay), however has anyone experimented with anything more epic along the northern coast? If so, anyone willing to share? I might have to find an area there to guerilla plant some goodies...

According to the 2012 hardiness zone map, areas like Lincoln City are comfortably positioned in Zone 9 (I heard rumors that areas surrounding devils lake are even higher thanks to a sweet microclimate) which begs the question, could more exotic things like CIDP's and more tender varieties or Trachys, Butias and even Washingtonias confidently grow there? I see very mature Cordylines there, why couldn't a large CIDP or Australian tree fern join the party? 

Would Seaside/Cannon beach/Tillamook/Lincoln City be too much of a stretch? 

 

 

 

Lots of things should do well on the central to northern coast.   Cool and damp a lot but no severe lows. Tasmanian tree ferns should do well, and yes Cordylines.  I've seen Agave americana  at the coast (giant form, not the winter hardy variety 'protoamericana' that I grow inland)...even the less sturdy variegated cultivars do well on the coast.   I've seen a large CIDP (15+ feet tall, 20+ years ago) in Newport.    Lots of tender plants will do well all along the Oregon coast.  

[Zach K]

20 minutes ago, MarkbVet said:

 

Lots of things should do well on the central to northern coast.   Cool and damp a lot but no severe lows. Tasmanian tree ferns should do well, and yes Cordylines.  I've seen Agave americana  at the coast (giant form, not the winter hardy variety 'protoamericana' that I grow inland)...even the less sturdy variegated cultivars do well on the coast.   I've seen a large CIDP (15+ feet tall, 20+ years ago) in Newport.    Lots of tender plants will do well all along the Oregon coast.  

A CIDP in Newport? I would love go check it out. Do you have an address or general location? 

[MarkbVet]

23 minutes ago, Zach K said:

A CIDP in Newport? I would love go check it out. Do you have an address or general location? 

It was a long time ago, right on the road through town (heading in from Corvallis, going west thru Newport to have dinner at the Whale's Tale on the oceanfront).  It was in the front yard of a small house on the right side (north side), on the road through town.  I didn't know much about palms then, but it was pinnate with long graceful fronds, (too long for Jubaea) and the trunk wasn't that thick either.   Pretty sure now it was a CIDP.   Beautiful plant.   

[MarkbVet]

12 hours ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Mine is toasted to a nice crispy brown. I insulated the crown with burlap, but to no avail.  I've used hydrogen peroxide down the meristem, but will the spring be warm enough to start growth if there's anything left to grow?

Peroxide burns live tissue, and is a mediocre disinfectant; I'd recommend an antifungal rinse or spray instead.  Even dilute betadine or chlorhexidene might work, though I've had much more experience with these on animal tissues than on plants.  But they damage live tissue cells much less than peroxide, and kill a wider spectrum of fungi and bacteria.     :-)  

[BeyondTheGarden]

I wonder how iodine would work?  It's used for disinfecting living tissue and purifying water to the point of making it safe to drink.  And it seems pretty benign to living animal/human tissue.  

[MarkbVet]

1 hour ago, Jesse PNW said:

I wonder how iodine would work?  It's used for disinfecting living tissue and purifying water to the point of making it safe to drink.  And it seems pretty benign to living animal/human tissue.  

Yes that is what Betadine is, povidone iodine.. a fairly mild form that is non toxic to tissues but decent disinfectant, when diluted 1:10. 

[Las Palmas Norte]

10 hours ago, MarkbVet said:

Peroxide burns live tissue, and is a mediocre disinfectant; I'd recommend an antifungal rinse or spray instead.  Even dilute betadine or chlorhexidene might work, though I've had much more experience with these on animal tissues than on plants.  But they damage live tissue cells much less than peroxide, and kill a wider spectrum of fungi and bacteria.     :-)  

Thanks for your input. I have no experience with any of those mentioned, or how to acquire them. The weather has been dry for the past week and afternoon temps mild since I applied the 3% hydrogen peroxide. 

[MarkbVet]

good luck with it!  I suspect you're zone pushing up there more than I am; my Butia is getting big and never has had damage yet.   Betadine solution is available OTC in grocery stores/supermarkets often, in the pharmacy or medicine section, for 'wound treatment' or such.    Diluted 1:10, it's safe and still disinfects.  Haven't used it much on plants; is used often on human/animal tissues.   Iodine is a micronutrient for plants,  but applied excessively to soil can create toxicity.  Used conservatively for local wound treatment should be ok.  Betadine has been used as a diluted drench/spray to inhibit fungal growth on plant leaves.  

Edited March 9, 2022 by MarkbVet

[Las Palmas Norte]

2 hours ago, MarkbVet said:

... I suspect you're zone pushing up there more than I am; my Butia is getting big and never has had damage yet. ...

Yes. The safest areas for Butia here on Vancouver Island are around the Victoria area and the west coast (Tofino) region. It would've done better without my heavy soil. I do see some green so I'm waiting to see how the race progresses. Will the frond push up, before the damage pushes down? Thanks for the info.