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Sable Palm Issues


IRQVET

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So I had two full size Sable Palms (12-14 inch truck) planted this past spring. One seems to have taken and is flush with new growth, while the other hasn't. If anything, it appears to be browning from the top heading downward. Any ideas one how to save it or what I should do?

 

People's exhibit 1

 

 

IMG_1070.JPG

IMG_1071.JPG

Edited by IRQVET
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Call the nursery, that palm might be on its way out. Not all Sabals survive transplant, this is perfectly normal, and the nursery should replace it if the palm is actually dead or dying.

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Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 1 W. bifurcata, 4 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 4 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. canariensis, 1 BxJ, 1 BxJxBxS, 1 BxS, 3 P. roebelenii, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 H. verschaffeltii, 9 T. fortunei, 1 C. humilis, 2 C. macrocarpa, 1 L. chinensis, 1 R. excelsa

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THe nursery makes you sign a waizer that if the transplant doesn't atke, they are not liable. So I'm open to suggestions if this one can be saved. 

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Agree with @JLM

 

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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4 hours ago, IRQVET said:

THe nursery makes you sign a waizer that if the transplant doesn't atke, they are not liable. So I'm open to suggestions if this one can be saved. 

The way i see it, nurseries shouldnt do that. Not all palms will naturally take to the transplant, and especially with this being a Sabal, it makes it even more likely that the transplant will not take regardless of what you do. I doubt it can be saved, but i guess the only way you can tell is to wait and see what will happen. Would continue to water it normally. Good nurseries know that especially with Sabals, some transplants may not take and some may die, and they should offer a replacement.

Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 1 W. bifurcata, 4 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 4 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. canariensis, 1 BxJ, 1 BxJxBxS, 1 BxS, 3 P. roebelenii, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 H. verschaffeltii, 9 T. fortunei, 1 C. humilis, 2 C. macrocarpa, 1 L. chinensis, 1 R. excelsa

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Costs more but see if you can put in a 'regenerated' Sabal in the spring.  Regenerated Sabals are left at the nursery for a year after digging to regrow their roots and crowns in a special process.  That one is gone most likely.

Edited by Allen
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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  18' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia odorata (1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -6F, -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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I am no expert but those should have a "well" around them so water can be 

pooled around the trunk and go down directly to the roots and not run off....

its not going to grow until it can grow some roots, maybe water with a root

stimulator but as others have mentioned it may be to late...on the other hand

they do have massive storage of carbs in a big trunk like that (usually) and should

able to hang in there for a while even though its not growing-on a positive note,

it does appear to be green still(as much as you can tell by the picture) so there is hope.

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I know it sux. I often see newer sabals like those planted around Panama City and usually there are 1 or 2 dead ones in the mix. Sometimes the Sabal just collapses and folds over. 

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13 hours ago, Jtee said:

I know it sux. I often see newer sabals like those planted around Panama City and usually there are 1 or 2 dead ones in the mix. Sometimes the Sabal just collapses and folds over. 

I have seen A LOT more palms, everything from Palmettos to Sylvesters planted in my area this summer. Im loving every bit of it :yay:
On the sad note, like you said, there are usually those 1 or 2 dead ones in the mix. Unfortunately, the places that had these palms installed has not had these dead palms replaced. 

Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 1 W. bifurcata, 4 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 4 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. canariensis, 1 BxJ, 1 BxJxBxS, 1 BxS, 3 P. roebelenii, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 H. verschaffeltii, 9 T. fortunei, 1 C. humilis, 2 C. macrocarpa, 1 L. chinensis, 1 R. excelsa

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It did infact have a well around it until about a month ago, like I stated before, they've been in the ground now since early April. I was soaking them for about 2 hours per day for the first two months they were in the ground per the instructions by the landscape company who I got these from ($200 ea.)

Yesterday I took some PVC pipe and jammed 5 holes into the soil about 18 inches deep. I tried to pump in some palm fertilizer and some liquid copper and get that mixture directly into the root system; on account of the browning that was occuring on the fawns. Its a shot in the dark, but I had to try something to save it- if that is possible. 

Edited by IRQVET
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1 hour ago, IRQVET said:

It did infact have a well around it until about a month ago, like I stated before, they've been in the ground now since early April. I was soaking them for about 2 hours per day for the first two months they were in the ground per the instructions by the landscape company who I got these from ($200 ea.)

Yesterday I took some PVC pipe and jammed 5 holes into the soil about 18 inches deep. I tried to pump in some palm fertilizer and some liquid copper and get that mixture directly into the root system; on account of the browning that was occuring on the fawns. Its a shot in the dark, but I had to try something to save it- if that is possible. 

You need to get up there and see if the spear is still green/intact and spray the whole spear area with copper fungicide.   

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  18' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia odorata (1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -6F, -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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Got up on the ladder but didn't see a crown, but this is what the top looks like. Poored copper down onto the top and let it cascade down the plant.

 

Crown Palm.JPG

Edited by IRQVET
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If you can mark it with a sharpie to see if the Speer is moving.

Edited by RJ
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Well that's all you can do probably.  Treat it again in a week when it's going to be dry.  With the trunk having so much stored energy I guess it's possible to still live but odds are poor.

Edited by Allen

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  18' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia odorata (1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -6F, -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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I found this @ Garys just browsing around for other things

http://www.garysnursery.com/SabalPlanting.html

On 9/6/2021 at 9:13 PM, Allen said:

Costs more but see if you can put in a 'regenerated' Sabal in the spring.  Regenerated Sabals are left at the nursery for a year after digging to regrow their roots and crowns in a special process.  That one is gone most likely.

 

Edited by DallasPalms
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On 9/6/2021 at 9:57 PM, JLM said:

The way i see it, nurseries shouldnt do that. 

I agree. But I had two options:

1. Pay $1,600 per tree from a nursery that would replace them if the transplant didn't take.

or

2. Pay $200 per tree from a different nursey that makes you sign a waiver.

 

So a one in eight chance on a ROI perspective. 

Edited by IRQVET
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4 hours ago, IRQVET said:

 

2. Pay $200 per tree from a different nursey that makes you sign a waiver.

 

So a one in eight chance on a ROI perspective. 

The fact that they can make money at $200 tells you want they really cost. :rolleyes:

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4 hours ago, IRQVET said:

I agree. But I had two options:

1. Pay $1,600 per tree from a nursery that would replace them if the transplant didn't take.

or

2. Pay $200 per tree from a different nursey that makes you sign a waiver.

 

So a one in eight chance on a ROI perspective. 

You did the right thing. $200 seems ridiculously cheap to me. Well worth the gamble. 

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$200 seems oddly cheap like there was something wrong.

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  18' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia odorata (1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -6F, -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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I've seen guys on Craigslist dumping trees for cheap this time of year.  My guess is they're small landscape guys who bought a truckload of palms in the spring and are trying to clear out whatever they have left before winter.  That is a great price though, I would have given one a try for $200 too.

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  • 4 weeks later...

So I took drastic meassures as at this point as I figured nothing could make the matter worse. So here is what I've done so far:

1. Punched five 18 inch holes surrounding the tree so I could aerate the roots and pump in some liquid copper directly to the roots. 

2. I noticed a few "soft spots" on the trunk (trunk rot), so I've been spot spraying those. 

3. I cut 4 inches off the top and removed all the existing growth. In case the speer had a blockage of some kind. 

After a few weeks, I didn't notice any big difference. So I figured WTH, I tried. 

But I checked it this morning and I noticed the soft spots have gone away, the truck seems to be regaining color, and I have new growth just starting to pop out the top. 

I'm pretty shocked, hope it takes. But I don't think it will with the cold weather coming. But fingers crossed. . .

Edited by IRQVET
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On 10/11/2021 at 4:33 PM, IRQVET said:

So I took drastic meassures as at this point as I figured nothing could make the matter worse. So here is what I've done so far:

1. Punched five 18 inch holes surrounding the tree so I could aerate the roots and pump in some liquid copper directly to the roots. 

2. I noticed a few "soft spots" on the trunk (trunk rot), so I've been spot spraying those. 

3. I cut 4 inches off the top and removed all the existing growth. In case the speer had a blockage of some kind. 

After a few weeks, I didn't notice any big difference. So I figured WTH, I tried. 

But I checked it this morning and I noticed the soft spots have gone away, the truck seems to be regaining color, and I have new growth just starting to pop out the top. 

I'm pretty shocked, hope it takes. But I don't think it will with the cold weather coming. But fingers crossed. . .

Thats some good news! Make sure to keep the cut dry!! This level of cold shouldnt affect it, even being in its fragile state. Here near Pensacola, low is forecasted to be 49F, that wouldnt hurt a fragile palmetto, or at least i would think. Definitely make sure to keep the new growth dry, and let us know how it looks by this time next week!

Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 1 W. bifurcata, 4 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 4 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. canariensis, 1 BxJ, 1 BxJxBxS, 1 BxS, 3 P. roebelenii, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 H. verschaffeltii, 9 T. fortunei, 1 C. humilis, 2 C. macrocarpa, 1 L. chinensis, 1 R. excelsa

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  • 2 months later...

Drastic measures seem to be paying off. We have new growth on the palm I thought was beyond repair!

 

As of this a.m.

If you notice when I took 4 inches off the top, I cut it at a slight angle so the rain water wouldn’t pool on top. Not seeing any root on the crown, nor am I having anymore soft spots on the truck. Might have saved this one?

 

IMG_1397.JPG

IMG_1395.JPG

Edited by IRQVET
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On 9/15/2021 at 4:47 PM, IRQVET said:

I agree. But I had two options:

1. Pay $1,600 per tree from a nursery that would replace them if the transplant didn't take.

or

2. Pay $200 per tree from a different nursey that makes you sign a waiver.

 

So a one in eight chance on a ROI perspective. 

The struggle is real. We have both kinds of nurseries around me. I think a lot depends on the purpose and type of palm. 
I'm willing to take a "waiver" on a Queen or tree that has some age on it but Sabals make me nervous if I can't see a strong canopy.
 

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On 12/29/2021 at 9:52 AM, IRQVET said:

Drastic measures seem to be paying off. We have new growth on the palm I thought was beyond repair!

 

As of this a.m.

If you notice when I took 4 inches off the top, I cut it at a slight angle so the rain water wouldn’t pool on top. Not seeing any root on the crown, nor am I having anymore soft spots on the truck. Might have saved this one?

 

IMG_1397.JPG

IMG_1395.JPG

Looking good! Whatever you're doing is working, would probably keep doing this until you have at least one or two fronds out, after that you could probably let it go from there. Just make sure to check on it every now and again until it has a full crown (will probably be a few years before this happens) And also, you might be able to begin a regular fertilizing schedule in the Spring.

Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 1 W. bifurcata, 4 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 4 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. canariensis, 1 BxJ, 1 BxJxBxS, 1 BxS, 3 P. roebelenii, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 H. verschaffeltii, 9 T. fortunei, 1 C. humilis, 2 C. macrocarpa, 1 L. chinensis, 1 R. excelsa

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I would almost bet my life that it is a  water issue . I watered my HC Palmetto 3 times a day in warm weather ; I mean it was soaked all summer . It loved it , but when I mentioned to Gary of Gary's Nursery that I watered it 3 times a day he said that maybe I should cut back a little . He said that he waters his HC Palmettos as much as 3 times a week  just after being planted .  Those were probably left to mother nature and had to endure an entire hot Florida summer without supplemental water .

Will

Edited by Will Simpson
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My first HC Palmetto had no visible  root growth and no fronds , but within 7 years it  flowered . I watered the piss out of it for years .

Will

At the nursery :

D0767D59-B56B-46A7-9323-C801A9DEBA9E.thumb.jpeg.0051a13494efbfb21d2bbb426621f3d8.jpeg

 

Just planted at my place 5/5/2010  :

EB6C9FF9-A145-4B28-A15E-6E550E55B2D6.thumb.jpeg.ac77e9f58093638bbc8dd8f2e6fba547.jpeg

 

8/14/2017 ;  It flowered the year earlier but it was fully mature below :7E2D0938-38F7-4083-A88B-3BC066E5454C.thumb.jpeg.b0a2f94b19cfce48278ff80c2a7b2685.jpeg

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