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Replacing Oak with Foxtail or other Palm Help


AspiringDana

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On 11/23/2021 at 7:33 PM, Merlyn said:

Then a neighbor gave me a 6' tall Pygmy Date, and with the second shovel in the ground I hit it AGAIN!!!  :o  The problem is that the pipe went under the driveway at a weird angle. I have now marked it with a couple of flags and random rocks.

OMG! That's quite a story! Thank you so much for sharing it. It makes me not feel so awful about 1. Paying the damn stump grinder who most likely knew he hit that pipe and 2. For having the HOA's irrigation service take several hours to fix the pipe yesterday. What a mess, but yours must have been incredibly frustrating for you!  

I will also mark the pipe! Good idea! Thanks again @Merlyn!

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On 11/21/2021 at 11:05 PM, D Palm said:

I use fertilome root stimulator for new plantings, then after about 3-4 months proper granular fertilizer. The liquid root stimulator will help reduce transplant shock and encourage root development.

@D Palm Thanks for that tip! Much apprecaited!

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On 11/23/2021 at 10:44 PM, D Palm said:

Irrigation systems are a luxury in Florida. When I was stationed in So Cal it is a necessity if you want something besides desertscapee. If it was me I would cap it. I enjoy watering the yard with a garden hose during dry periods.

@D Palm Thats a HARD NO from me on the "always hand water"!! I'm just not that gal. :winkie:

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On 11/22/2021 at 7:46 AM, petiole10 said:

I have bought some juvenile Foxtails here in Portugal to hopefully be happy with the southern european climate.

@petiole10 Best of luck with the new garden! I hear great things about Portugal.

I'm glad you got something out of this thread as there are so many helpful Palm aficionados out there!

I am so grateful. :shaka-2:

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  • 1 year later...
On 11/25/2021 at 12:10 PM, Merlyn said:

"Adventitious roots" are common in many palm species, and generally considered evidence of a happy palm.  I have a couple of queens in the same super-irrigated area, and they have developed a lot of adventitious roots.  Around the corner in a drier area they are even bigger and more impressive.  I have also seen some Phoenix Sylvestris with adventitious roots at least 2 feet up the trunk!

Hello it’s been a while! I noticed this past week that my Foxtail maybe has some of these issues due to overwatering from the HOA irrigation. The bottom of the tree’s bark looks splayed out and I do see some above soil roots formed. Should I be concerned? 

IMG_6512.jpeg

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IMG_6514.jpeg

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@AspiringDana adventitious roots are pretty normal, especially for palms planted as a triple.  As the bases expand they'll push each other away, and may end up pushing themselves slightly up out of the ground too.  Generally you want just enough dirt/mulch to cover the lowest roots, but not covering the lower trunk "bark" area with mulch or dirt.  Too high can trap moisture against the bottom of the trunk and cause lower trunk rot.  Having the mulch/dirt a little bit low is generally safer than too high.  I personally would not be concerned with the mulch/dirt depth in your photos.  You could leave it as is and add a bit more cosmetic mulch, just keep an inch or so of clearance between the mulch and the trunks. 

The only thing that's a little concerning is the location of the swingline pipe head.  It looks like it's pouring water directly on the center of the triple.  You don't want to do that, for the same above moisture/rot concerns.  It may never be a problem, but I'd move that pipe off to the side and put a bubbler or fan sprayers in the area.  Ideally you'd water with fans spraying outwards from the trunk area, covering under the canopy diameter of the palms.  But you don't want it spraying or pouring water directly on the trunks. 

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17 hours ago, Merlyn said:

@AspiringDana adventitious roots are pretty normal, especially for palms planted as a triple.  As the bases expand they'll push each other away, and may end up pushing themselves slightly up out of the ground too.  Generally you want just enough dirt/mulch to cover the lowest roots, but not covering the lower trunk "bark" area with mulch or dirt.  Too high can trap moisture against the bottom of the trunk and cause lower trunk rot.  Having the mulch/dirt a little bit low is generally safer than too high.  I personally would not be concerned with the mulch/dirt depth in your photos.  You could leave it as is and add a bit more cosmetic mulch, just keep an inch or so of clearance between the mulch and the trunks. 

The only thing that's a little concerning is the location of the swingline pipe head.  It looks like it's pouring water directly on the center of the triple.  You don't want to do that, for the same above moisture/rot concerns.  It may never be a problem, but I'd move that pipe off to the side and put a bubbler or fan sprayers in the area.  Ideally you'd water with fans spraying outwards from the trunk area, covering under the canopy diameter of the palms.  But you don't want it spraying or pouring water directly on the trunks. 

Thanks so much for this information @Merlyn!

FWIW I didn't set up this irrigation, my HOA's contractor did. I figured it wasn't the best option, but maybe I can persuade them to modify the single swingline pipe head. I am not entitled to any more irrigation in this location, so I have to work with what I have. The rest of the area is covered to some degree with long sprays, but I will have to check to see if they also cover the under-canopy area.

The ground there is pitched a certain way so I would like to know if this is appropriate irrigation for the swingline pipe? I can request that it be moved to the top end of the pitch, but I can't guarantee that the lower parts of this tree will be watered. Please keep in mind that I can't put any other sprays in this edged in location.

If my diagram isn't correct can you give me some idea where you'd put this pipe?

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Many of my my older palms have adventidious roots.  All with adventidious roots are very healthy.  Humid conditions favor adventidious roots.  The most importatn roots are far from the trunk since root areas increase with radius from the trunk.  Here is a Royal(40' plus) and 25-30' Chamberyronia Oliviformis showing several inches of these roots.  I really dont like the placement of the irrigator pipemitter where those three trunks meet.  The trunks are from different trees with independent protective membranes and keeping that contact area wet will invite disease and remember foxtails dont want to be wet all the time.  AdventidiousRoyal_8002.thumb.jpg.9224e3cfbfa35ba2b1d68f10e6bae5d7.jpgadventidiouskentiopsisjpg.thumb.jpg.aa5e70726e07e7353c5d47e2577abb13.jpg

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Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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@AspiringDana what I'd do is move the end of the swingline pipe over to the left or right side, whichever is convenient.  I'd screw on a 25psi drip regulator at the end, and then run a short loop around the palm.  Then you could stick on a couple of 90 degree or 180 degree fan sprayers, pointed away from the trunks.  If it's on drip you can easily reposition and re-aim the fans, replace them with bubblers, or anything you want in that area. 

image.thumb.png.7f95046a5bbd0917544cce63cf2db190.png

I *think* this pressure regulator will screw onto the end of the swingline, it is probably 1/2" pipe thread on the outlet.  This would give you 4x outputs with 1/4" line, and you could use all 4 with small 90 degree fan sprayers-on-a-stick, or two 180s, or whatever you want.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Orbit-4-Port-Manifold-with-Adjustable-Flow-68005/203023254

and the sprayers I use are these:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rain-Bird-Drip-Half-Pattern-Microspray-on-Stake-MSSTKTH1SX/204751221

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20 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

@AspiringDana what I'd do is move the end of the swingline pipe over to the left or right side, whichever is convenient.  I'd screw on a 25psi drip regulator at the end, and then run a short loop around the palm.  Then you could stick on a couple of 90 degree or 180 degree fan sprayers, pointed away from the trunks.  If it's on drip you can easily reposition and re-aim the fans, replace them with bubblers, or anything you want in that area. 

image.thumb.png.7f95046a5bbd0917544cce63cf2db190.png

I *think* this pressure regulator will screw onto the end of the swingline, it is probably 1/2" pipe thread on the outlet.  This would give you 4x outputs with 1/4" line, and you could use all 4 with small 90 degree fan sprayers-on-a-stick, or two 180s, or whatever you want.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Orbit-4-Port-Manifold-with-Adjustable-Flow-68005/203023254

and the sprayers I use are these:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rain-Bird-Drip-Half-Pattern-Microspray-on-Stake-MSSTKTH1SX/204751221

Thank you so much for this very detailed information @Merlyn! 😊🙏🏼 I am not sure how I can explain this better, but the HOA does not permit any alterations to their supplies or pipes in any way. In other words, I can ask the HOA's irrigation company to move the swingline pipe, but that's about it. No added bubblers, loops or fans unfortunately. TBH I was extremely lucky to even get this! Prior to this single swingline pipe I had 1 very long spray that hit the tree mid-trunk as it fanned around the yard's turf, completely missing the base area of the tree or under the canopy.  🙄 Just getting this set up took me a while. The irrigation here only runs 2x/week and they do try to lower the amount of water usage when we've had a lot of rain.

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@AspiringDana I'd forgotten that the HOA wouldn't let you touch the irrigation.  That's why I live where there isn't an active HOA.  :D  So if your only option is just to move it, I would put the end at the spot in your diagram, and twist the outlet so it aims to the left in the photo, away from the trunks.

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