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Red Maple help


JLM
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We had planted a Red Maple tree along with our Queens back in 2019, and this tree has struggled pretty much the whole time it has been on this property. While it has put on top growth, its not as much as i think it could have done. The first spring it was the last tree to bloom within our little part of the neighborhood, and usually Maples are one of the first to start blooming. This spring it was much earlier, and did put out quite a bit of leaves. Although, it was moved from the front yard to the backyard. I got as big of a root ball as i could (pretty small actually). Both summers the leave developed silver and black spots, and some of the leaves have turned red and fallen off, while the rest remain green and spotted. At the end of this upcoming winter, i am thinking about doing a small trim, especially on the front side of the tree, as the growth is uneven and could result in issues further down the line. I will try my best to get a decent image of the tree once the backyard is cleaned up some. I would also like some recommendations on some type of fertilizer, just enough to promote good growth next spring. There should be no reason why this tree is not doing well, as maple trees are actually quite common around here, especially in parking lot plantings, and these trees are doing very well. Any thoughts on what i need to do?

One good thing ive seen out of the tree is that it seemed to establish itself very quickly once stuck back in the ground, and doesnt wobble around much anymore in the wind. 

Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 2 W. bifurcata, 6 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. sylvestris, 1 Butia x Jubaea, 1 Butia x Jubaea x Butia x Syagrus, 1 X Butiagrus nabonnandii, 2 L. chinensis, 1 Cocos nucifera 

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  • 8 months later...

This is the best it has looked since we got it in 2019, it seems to love it back here.

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Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 2 W. bifurcata, 6 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. sylvestris, 1 Butia x Jubaea, 1 Butia x Jubaea x Butia x Syagrus, 1 X Butiagrus nabonnandii, 2 L. chinensis, 1 Cocos nucifera 

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I have a few maples, 2 large trees in swampy areas had a similar issue with leaves turning black. Mine are all wild the builder left when he cleared the property 20 years ago. I use copper fungicide and hit the creases where water  pools with peroxide. Has had green leaves ever since. Once they turn, they stay that way til fall. I will randomly find saplings taller than that around my property and cut them down. 

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  • 6 months later...

I never anticipated this much growth in a single growing season. Growth has stopped as of a couple months ago, and now some leaves are starting to get red spots on them which to me signals fall. I can't wait to see what kind of growth this thing puts out next year.

PS sorry for it being so dark in the pics, the sun hasn't come up yet and it's 7 am

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Edited by JLM
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Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 2 W. bifurcata, 6 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. sylvestris, 1 Butia x Jubaea, 1 Butia x Jubaea x Butia x Syagrus, 1 X Butiagrus nabonnandii, 2 L. chinensis, 1 Cocos nucifera 

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Clearing a large tree ring around the base and laying down some mulch may speed up its growth even more. It's my understanding that turf grasses can have an allelopathic effect on trees. At the least, they are competing for water and nutrients.

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12 minutes ago, Manalto said:

Clearing a large tree ring around the base and laying down some mulch may speed up its growth even more. It's my understanding that turf grasses can have an allelopathic effect on trees. At the least, they are competing for water and nutrients.

Sod- forming grasses like Bermuda, Bahia, and Centipede, that form a thick layer, and are water / nutrient hogs as-is  could definitely compete for nutrients / water.  Low water bunch -type grasses that form a sod, but often have more open spaces between clumps like Buffalo, Curly Mesquite / Sprucetop, Hairy, and Blue Grama,  maybe not quite as nutrient and moisture competitive. 

As for Allelopathic potential?  Perennial Rye, Tall Fescue, and KY. Bluegrass are listed by some sources, though having worked w/ these turf types for several years in a few different states, such potential was never mentioned.  King Ranch Bluestem, Bothriochloa ischaemum  a relatively new exotic invasive bunch grass is also reported to exhibit Allelopathic  traits as well.  

On a similar note, search " Bermuda Grass Cyanide " for yet another great reason to avoid planting the stuff.

As for the Maple, definitely keep some space below it cleared out as best as possible... I myself wouldn't throw a layer of woody mulch around it  ..Would let it's leaves accumulate below / add some more though. 

Imo,  Appears it is doing exactly what most tree saplings do during the first 3-5 years after planting:  Coming out of the adjustment / settling in / slow/ minimal growth phase, and should start to add decent amounts of growth / canopy at a faster pace for the next several years. 

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Thanks, Nathan, for the detail and clarification. I was trying to be cautious by saying "it's my understanding" because I just wasn't sure. I've used composted leaves (and now here on the Gulf Coast, pine straw) as mulch for so many years I didn't even think about wood chips. They're nitrogen sinks, aren't they? I like to add a little composted manure under the leaves, too.

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22 minutes ago, Manalto said:

Thanks, Nathan, for the detail and clarification. I was trying to be cautious by saying "it's my understanding" because I just wasn't sure. I've used composted leaves (and now here on the Gulf Coast, pine straw) as mulch for so many years I didn't even think about wood chips. They're nitrogen sinks, aren't they? I like to add a little composted manure under the leaves, too.

:greenthumb: No worries,  on the same page for sure..

Other than by simply crowding other stuff out,  i'd never heard anyone i worked for / discussing " turf related " topics during a certification course mention grasses possessing the ability to wage chemical warfare on other stuff..  It would make sense that grasses wouldn't be exempt from possessing that ability though, at least some..  Imo, it is aromatic stuff like Eucalyptus, Walnut, or Chamise / woody Sage sp. ( here in the west ) which would be the obvious candidates for possessing chemicals / compounds which could inhibit / subdue growth of other stuff near them.

Yes, wood chips would definitely act as a N sink but apparently only closer to the surface of the soil, actually increasing N in the soil below about 5". I'm honestly a little skeptical about that..   My bigger concern regarding wood chips, mulch, etc.. is that inevitably, it will draw in Termites ..and no one wants to attract those, lol.

Leaves are easy and one walk in the woods, or somewhere where they're not constantly scraped away reveals how good leaving them is for the soil and everything growing in it, even here in the desert.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I am very proud of this tree's growth this summer, and now its paying off! Ever since the tree was planted, it has never put on a fall color show before. This year though, its starting to show some beautiful yellows/oranges and some reds! Im so excited about this, and i seriously cannot wait to see its peak color for the first time.

Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 2 W. bifurcata, 6 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. sylvestris, 1 Butia x Jubaea, 1 Butia x Jubaea x Butia x Syagrus, 1 X Butiagrus nabonnandii, 2 L. chinensis, 1 Cocos nucifera 

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I will post more pics as the color becomes more vibrant.

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Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 2 W. bifurcata, 6 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. sylvestris, 1 Butia x Jubaea, 1 Butia x Jubaea x Butia x Syagrus, 1 X Butiagrus nabonnandii, 2 L. chinensis, 1 Cocos nucifera 

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IMG_20221125_075951587.jpg

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Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 2 W. bifurcata, 6 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. sylvestris, 1 Butia x Jubaea, 1 Butia x Jubaea x Butia x Syagrus, 1 X Butiagrus nabonnandii, 2 L. chinensis, 1 Cocos nucifera 

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Maples are a nice tree for N. Florida. About the best fall foliage for these parts imo. I prune the small sucker branches off the main trunks to help them grow more vertical. Leaves mow up easy…unlike some water oaks/lives oaks. They don’t blow into your neighbors yard a half mile from your house like Sycamores either.


What type of citrus is behind it?

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51 minutes ago, D Palm said:

Maples are a nice tree for N. Florida. About the best fall foliage for these parts imo. I prune the small sucker branches off the main trunks to help them grow more vertical. Leaves mow up easy…unlike some water oaks/lives oaks. They don’t blow into your neighbors yard a half mile from your house like Sycamores either.


What type of citrus is behind it?

Dancy tangerine. They should be ready in the next couple of weeks or so. 

Edit: The wind and rain we had the other night decimated the color. Woke up the next morning and 50% of the tree was leafless.

Edited by JLM

Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 2 W. bifurcata, 6 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. sylvestris, 1 Butia x Jubaea, 1 Butia x Jubaea x Butia x Syagrus, 1 X Butiagrus nabonnandii, 2 L. chinensis, 1 Cocos nucifera 

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I gotta say for the life of me I’m not sure why nurseries promote red maples down there no less up here. They grow native around these parts but only in deep wood settings. Red maples need ample water but have shallow root systems with very aggressive roots that will invade anything even a long distance away in search for water. They struggle up here when planted out in the open and often look horrible. YMMV 

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On 11/29/2022 at 12:47 PM, RJ said:

I gotta say for the life of me I’m not sure why nurseries promote red maples down there no less up here. They grow native around these parts but only in deep wood settings. Red maples need ample water but have shallow root systems with very aggressive roots that will invade anything even a long distance away in search for water. They struggle up here when planted out in the open and often look horrible. YMMV 

The tree was bought at Lowes, it was labeled as a shade tree. We had planted out in the font yard, and it wasnt growing much and it just looked bad. Leaves would fall off of it before fall even took hold. So, i moved it into the backyard and it has thrived there. Im sure very wet conditions for the past 2 summers have contributed to this thriving. 

It is not really visible in the pictures i have posted, but there are some absolutely massive river birches just on the other side of the fence. They provide almost the entire backyard with shade during the morning hours.

Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 2 W. bifurcata, 6 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 2 P. sylvestris, 1 Butia x Jubaea, 1 Butia x Jubaea x Butia x Syagrus, 1 X Butiagrus nabonnandii, 2 L. chinensis, 1 Cocos nucifera 

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12 hours ago, JLM said:

The tree was bought at Lowes, it was labeled as a shade tree. We had planted out in the font yard, and it wasnt growing much and it just looked bad. Leaves would fall off of it before fall even took hold. So, i moved it into the backyard and it has thrived there. Im sure very wet conditions for the past 2 summers have contributed to this thriving. 

It is not really visible in the pictures i have posted, but there are some absolutely massive river birches just on the other side of the fence. They provide almost the entire backyard with shade during the morning hours.

River birch is another thirsty tree with shallow roots. They will drop their leaves early too without ample water. I’m glad it’s looking good and hope it does well for you. Just be aware of the shallow expansive roots of both species. 

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