GottmitAlex Posted October 25, 2021 Report Share Posted October 25, 2021 43 minutes ago, Maltese coconut project said: I still find some articles a bit confusing when it comes to adding salt. According to this particular article they don't recommend watering with above 0.6% salinity, or 6 parts per thousand. Sometimes I still doubt this number but then on second thought, I also know that they are monsoon plants and I still fear taking the risk. To be honest I wish to experiment trying a few near a local beach, but our low precipitation discourages me. To solve the problem I need to find an all year round watercourse https://www.ehow.com/facts_7623427_can-coconut-trees-sea-water.html Yes, don't test coconuts in near your beaches. They will die there. 1 5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltese coconut project Posted November 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 November and temperatures are in their lower 70s Fahrenheit / lower 20s degrees celcius in the shade but mid 80s Fahrenheit /upper 20s or 30 degrees celcius in the sun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicante Posted November 8, 2021 Report Share Posted November 8, 2021 Hello everyone and thanks to @Maltese coconut project for doing this thread. Well, I have great news. There is actually someone growing a coconut in Málaga (Rincón de la Victoria) that's already 10 years old, that person is growing it outdoors without any kind of protection since 2013 so that's 8 years already!!! It's just placed on a 2nd floor terrace with a wall behind to protect it from northerlies. Since the credit is not mine, I'll just put the link here. https://foro.infojardin.com/threads/cocotero-en-malaga.114833/ It's a Spanish Gardening Forum but I guess with Google Translate the content can be readable. The pics are still there, at least as of 2020 the coconut was already 2.8m tall (9.2 FT) Rincón de la Victoria is placed at 36º 42'N ! So at the moment, if i'm not wrong, these are the northernmost coconuts growing without protection. This coconut never had any kind or protection since it was placed outdoors in 2013, not even a simple plastic net to protect it since it was first an experiment as well but it seems it has gone well instead of going wrong. There was actually another coconut that died in 2019 or 2020 (I'm not exactly sure) but this one survived and it's thriving and growing up as well. That place of Spain has average highs above 17ºC (63F) in all winter months so if there's a good spot to try one in Spain, that's the good one. I have heard there was one in the past in Almuñécar that thrived for many years but it ended up dying. Here is the 2016 thread where there were actually 2 coconuts, now it's just one left, but hey, 8 years in EUROPE without protection is not a small deal! https://foro.infojardin.com/threads/he-germinado-un-coco-y-ahora-que-hago-con-el.61372/#post-1005156 You can see here all of the recent pics as well as the size of the 2 "coconut brothers" back to 2013 before they went outdoors. Sadly one of them passed away as I told before. https://foro.infojardin.com/threads/cocotero-en-malaga.114833/ here were the 2016 pics that were showing both of them https://foro.infojardin.com/threads/he-germinado-un-coco-y-ahora-que-hago-con-el.61372/#post-1005156 take account that the 2020 pics were done in April, after a prolonged cold spell. But it wasn't looking too bad though! I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltese coconut project Posted November 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2021 So far one of the closest climates to Malta according to online statistics (Malta is actually warmer than shown in the statistics but I don't know whether this thing applies to other countries as well) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinB Posted November 8, 2021 Report Share Posted November 8, 2021 Looks nice! It has almost the same size container like my Cocos is growing in. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltese coconut project Posted November 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2021 (edited) I used 42 litre pot Edited November 8, 2021 by Maltese coconut project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicante Posted November 8, 2021 Report Share Posted November 8, 2021 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Maltese coconut project said: So far one of the closest climates to Malta according to online statistics (Malta is actually warmer than shown in the statistics but I don't know whether this thing applies to other countries as well) Yep, applies at least in Spain as well. In fact, the official AEMET averages map shows 2 coastal zones in southern Spain with annual averages above 20ºC (68F) which is mind blowing for 36-37ºN latitudes. One is in Granada, near Motril and another one is in the province of Almería. Rincón de la Victoria, Málaga is also warmer than Málaga city, well in fact Málaga's official weather station comes from the airport that is slightly cooler than the coastal parts of the city, or Marbella or Rincón and so on. The southern coast of Spain is completely protected by northern winds thus giving it such a warm climate. The official WMO offers some climate charts for that zone of Spain, i'll put the links below. Motril 1981-2010 averages: https://worldweather.wmo.int/en/city.html?cityId=2189 Torremolinos averages: https://worldweather.wmo.int/en/city.html?cityId=2909 Estepona averages: https://worldweather.wmo.int/en/city.html?cityId=2894 The warmest areas of Spain have 17-18ºC highs and 9-10ºC lows (63-64F / 48-50F) during the coldest month (January) just as shown above. The amount of tropical fruits and palms growing in that area is insane. Also the biggest Royals, Kings and Kentias within Europe are in that area. I've posted lots of pics many years ago here in PalmTalk but all were hosted by TinyPic and that site went down as well as it didn't even gave me the option to recover the hundreds of photos I had uploaded. Just as guidance, that area grows this extended list of ultra tropical fruits, all of them being grown up outdoors, of course. I've also had an extended list of tropical and ultra tropical palms growing in that region, I think I've posted it as well several years ago here in PalmTalk. I got them from several gardening pages, I could try to find them if anyone wants to. - Koubo fruit - Salak - Snake fruit - Mangosteen - Rambutan - Guava - Carambola - Star Fruit - Pitaya - Dragon Fruit - Sapote - Jujube - Longan - Litchi - Pitanga - Passionfruit - Maracuya - Cherimoya - Custard Apple That zone also produces thousands of tons of all kinds of mangoes and avocados. Although mangoes and avocados also grow in my area as well, they're not ultra tropicals. Sources: https://www.campodebenamayor.es/frutas-tropicales/#1539801027729-81719242-f05b https://matadornetwork.com/es/frutas-tropicales-malaga/ https://www.diariosur.es/malagaenlamesa/frutas-extranas-pueden-20181108211551-nt.html Edited November 8, 2021 by Alicante 2 I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltese coconut project Posted November 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2021 Very interesting data, thanks for the information 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinB Posted November 8, 2021 Report Share Posted November 8, 2021 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Maltese coconut project said: I used 42 litre pot Mine is 75 litre. But i was referring to @Alicante his post but forgot to quote haha. Edited November 8, 2021 by MelvinB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltese coconut project Posted November 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2021 I understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GottmitAlex Posted November 8, 2021 Report Share Posted November 8, 2021 Anyone leaving a Coco outdoors for this coming winter? As a test. For posterity. 5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltese coconut project Posted November 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2021 I am doing so much again this winter as I did last winter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Coconut Palm Posted November 9, 2021 Report Share Posted November 9, 2021 9 hours ago, Alicante said: Hello everyone and thanks to @Maltese coconut project for doing this thread. Well, I have great news. There is actually someone growing a coconut in Málaga (Rincón de la Victoria) that's already 10 years old, that person is growing it outdoors without any kind of protection since 2013 so that's 8 years already!!! It's just placed on a 2nd floor terrace with a wall behind to protect it from northerlies. Since the credit is not mine, I'll just put the link here. https://foro.infojardin.com/threads/cocotero-en-malaga.114833/ It's a Spanish Gardening Forum but I guess with Google Translate the content can be readable. The pics are still there, at least as of 2020 the coconut was already 2.8m tall (9.2 FT) Rincón de la Victoria is placed at 36º 42'N ! So at the moment, if i'm not wrong, these are the northernmost coconuts growing without protection. This coconut never had any kind or protection since it was placed outdoors in 2013, not even a simple plastic net to protect it since it was first an experiment as well but it seems it has gone well instead of going wrong. There was actually another coconut that died in 2019 or 2020 (I'm not exactly sure) but this one survived and it's thriving and growing up as well. That place of Spain has average highs above 17ºC (63F) in all winter months so if there's a good spot to try one in Spain, that's the good one. I have heard there was one in the past in Almuñécar that thrived for many years but it ended up dying. Here is the 2016 thread where there were actually 2 coconuts, now it's just one left, but hey, 8 years in EUROPE without protection is not a small deal! https://foro.infojardin.com/threads/he-germinado-un-coco-y-ahora-que-hago-con-el.61372/#post-1005156 You can see here all of the recent pics as well as the size of the 2 "coconut brothers" back to 2013 before they went outdoors. Sadly one of them passed away as I told before. https://foro.infojardin.com/threads/cocotero-en-malaga.114833/ here were the 2016 pics that were showing both of them https://foro.infojardin.com/threads/he-germinado-un-coco-y-ahora-que-hago-con-el.61372/#post-1005156 take account that the 2020 pics were done in April, after a prolonged cold spell. But it wasn't looking too bad though! But it doesn't really count if it is NOT planted IN the ground! The whole concept of growing them in marginal climates outside their normal range, IS to successfully grow them IN the ground with little or no protection most winters, but NOT just grow them in pots! John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltese coconut project Posted November 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2021 It counts because pot or ground they are still being exposed to the outside weather and if that weather is optimal or at some point gets them in a few months at risk, that is important data to everyone here trying to learn more about this species tolerances 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Coconut Palm Posted November 9, 2021 Report Share Posted November 9, 2021 6 hours ago, GottmitAlex said: Anyone leaving a Coco outdoors for this coming winter? As a test. For posterity. Hey Alex, I leave mine that are in pots out all winter, even on frosty nights with low temps around 33F to 36F, at least a couple of times to help harden them off. This applies to all of mine, even the little ones only a foot and a half tall. The only ones I would protect at such temps are sprouts only an inch to a few inches tall, but even these, I will try to expose to at least one or two nights down to around 38F. The only time I will bring in the others is if temps are predicted to get down below 33F or 34F (technically I protect them by bringing them in if temps are predicted to get below 34F, but occasionally the temps will dip a degree or two below what is predicted when they are left out, thus exposing them to a very light freeze, which usually doesn't significantly hurt them). The only other conditions I will bring them in for is for extended periods (6 days or more of highs in the 40'sF and 50'sF and lows in the 30'sF with drizzle, which seems to happen here about once every 3 or 4 winters. Other than that, all my potted Coconut Palms stay out all winter here at my place, and I estimate my normal high/low in January to be 65F/50F, so if that give you any ideas what I am dealing with. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Coconut Palm Posted November 9, 2021 Report Share Posted November 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, Maltese coconut project said: It counts because pot or ground they are still being exposed to the outside weather and if that weather is optimal or at some point gets them in a few months at risk, that is important data to everyone here trying to learn more about this species tolerances I suppose so, but in the case of a second story terrace/patio in close proximity to the patio wall, and door, it would get more heat, as warm air rises on cold nights, and it would get radiational heat coming off the house on cold winter nights. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicante Posted November 9, 2021 Report Share Posted November 9, 2021 3 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said: But it doesn't really count if it is NOT planted IN the ground! The whole concept of growing them in marginal climates outside their normal range, IS to successfully grow them IN the ground with little or no protection most winters, but NOT just grow them in pots! John Of course it does count as long as no one protects them mate, they are fully exposed to all weather events without any kind of protection. The owner actually said it's hard for her to move the container as it's a 100 liter container (the plan is to put it on ground if it reaches 10 years thriving) and the height where is placed is actually a first floor, I said second counting the ground floor as the first floor, but actually it would be in what is the first floor. 1 I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stelios Posted November 9, 2021 Report Share Posted November 9, 2021 14 hours ago, Alicante said: Yep, applies at least in Spain as well. In fact, the official AEMET averages map shows 2 coastal zones in southern Spain with annual averages above 20ºC (68F) which is mind blowing for 36-37ºN latitudes. One is in Granada, near Motril and another one is in the province of Almería. Rincón de la Victoria, Málaga is also warmer than Málaga city, well in fact Málaga's official weather station comes from the airport that is slightly cooler than the coastal parts of the city, or Marbella or Rincón and so on. The southern coast of Spain is completely protected by northern winds thus giving it such a warm climate. The official WMO offers some climate charts for that zone of Spain, i'll put the links below. Motril 1981-2010 averages: https://worldweather.wmo.int/en/city.html?cityId=2189 Torremolinos averages: https://worldweather.wmo.int/en/city.html?cityId=2909 Estepona averages: https://worldweather.wmo.int/en/city.html?cityId=2894 The warmest areas of Spain have 17-18ºC highs and 9-10ºC lows (63-64F / 48-50F) during the coldest month (January) just as shown above. The amount of tropical fruits and palms growing in that area is insane. Also the biggest Royals, Kings and Kentias within Europe are in that area. I've posted lots of pics many years ago here in PalmTalk but all were hosted by TinyPic and that site went down as well as it didn't even gave me the option to recover the hundreds of photos I had uploaded. Just as guidance, that area grows this extended list of ultra tropical fruits, all of them being grown up outdoors, of course. I've also had an extended list of tropical and ultra tropical palms growing in that region, I think I've posted it as well several years ago here in PalmTalk. I got them from several gardening pages, I could try to find them if anyone wants to. - Koubo fruit - Salak - Snake fruit - Mangosteen - Rambutan - Guava - Carambola - Star Fruit - Pitaya - Dragon Fruit - Sapote - Jujube - Longan - Litchi - Pitanga - Passionfruit - Maracuya - Cherimoya - Custard Apple That zone also produces thousands of tons of all kinds of mangoes and avocados. Although mangoes and avocados also grow in my area as well, they're not ultra tropicals. Sources: https://www.campodebenamayor.es/frutas-tropicales/#1539801027729-81719242-f05b https://matadornetwork.com/es/frutas-tropicales-malaga/ https://www.diariosur.es/malagaenlamesa/frutas-extranas-pueden-20181108211551-nt.html The less rainy place, the better chances for growing coconuts in the Mediterranean winters. Do you know if is better in Cadiz, Malaga, Almeria, Motril? Maybe another part of south Spain is drier in the winter? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicante Posted November 9, 2021 Report Share Posted November 9, 2021 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Stelios said: The less rainy place, the better chances for growing coconuts in the Mediterranean winters. Do you know if is better in Cadiz, Malaga, Almeria, Motril? Maybe another part of south Spain is drier in the winter? In that case, the best chance to have them would be the SE coastal zone of the province of Almería, which according to the official AEMET map has an annual average above 20°C as well as it's a dry semiarid climate that gets little rain during winters. Actually the wettest season there is during mid-late Autumn where avg highs are still above 20°C and the sunshine hours of that area are high during winters too, around 3.000h annually but sadly that area is very very unknown as the well known areas start going eastwards from Motril. The prime example is the town of Adra in Almería which appears in that area with +20°C annual average in the official AEMET map and it's also as well a confirmed 11a Hardiness Zone area, the latter being confirmed by an extended gardening work based on AEMET data made by a Spanish Agricultural Engineer and Biologist that's as well a Catedratic in the University of Murcia. Looking at Motril's official 1981-2010 averages the coldest month is 17.6°C and 9.0°C and Adra is even slightly warmer than that. Adra's January averages would be around 18/10 and August ones around 31/22 and there might be a real chance since only 3 months have average highs under 20°C in Adra, because this applies to Motril and Adra is slightly warmer than Motril. Edited November 9, 2021 by Alicante 2 1 I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleitalyyy Posted November 9, 2021 Report Share Posted November 9, 2021 thank you very much dear for sharing the photos and the history of the nearby coconut in malagano ... I am very happy with this ... really! gives hope ... if you have more photos or stories to share we are grateful ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GottmitAlex Posted November 9, 2021 Report Share Posted November 9, 2021 9 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said: But it doesn't really count if it is NOT planted IN the ground! The whole concept of growing them in marginal climates outside their normal range, IS to successfully grow them IN the ground with little or no protection most winters, but NOT just grow them in pots! John THIS 1 5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Coconut Palm Posted November 9, 2021 Report Share Posted November 9, 2021 17 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said: THIS So, you agree, Alex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurugu Posted November 9, 2021 Report Share Posted November 9, 2021 I lived in Motril for a couple of years and it froze uptown area, reaching -1,2Cº once. Downtown Motril is 50 mts. a.s.l., but uptown places can reach over 100 mts a.s.l. and northern winds coming from Sierra Lújar (2.200 mts a.s.l.) make temperatures in the valley drop significantly. I don´t think any place all along the south coast of Spain reach a yearly average of 20Cº. It is more wishful thinking than facts. Maybe dowtown big cities such as Cádiz, Málaga or Almería, due to big cities heat islands. Which, by the way, would be the best places to try to grow cocos in the ground. There are many places from Nerja to Almuñecar and from Motril to Almería, where mountains die just on the sea, and I think these places would also be perfect spots to grow cocos too. The closer the mountains to the sea, the warmer in winter. Places such as La Punta de la Mona and Cotobro , near Almuñecar, for instance. Here you have delonix regia in Torrenueva. https://www.google.com/maps/@36.7047575,-3.4901448,3a,15y,230.01h,104.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYVBOCQVsp8nE6O73NoiSkA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Coconut Palm Posted November 9, 2021 Report Share Posted November 9, 2021 2 hours ago, gurugu said: I lived in Motril for a couple of years and it froze uptown area, reaching -1,2Cº once. Downtown Motril is 50 mts. a.s.l., but uptown places can reach over 100 mts a.s.l. and northern winds coming from Sierra Lújar (2.200 mts a.s.l.) make temperatures in the valley drop significantly. I don´t think any place all along the south coast of Spain reach a yearly average of 20Cº. It is more wishful thinking than facts. Maybe dowtown big cities such as Cádiz, Málaga or Almería, due to big cities heat islands. Which, by the way, would be the best places to try to grow cocos in the ground. There are many places from Nerja to Almuñecar and from Motril to Almería, where mountains die just on the sea, and I think these places would also be perfect spots to grow cocos too. The closer the mountains to the sea, the warmer in winter. Places such as La Punta de la Mona and Cotobro , near Almuñecar, for instance. Here you have delonix regia in Torrenueva. https://www.google.com/maps/@36.7047575,-3.4901448,3a,15y,230.01h,104.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYVBOCQVsp8nE6O73NoiSkA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 Beautiful Royal Poinciana. I had no idea they could be grown in southernmost Spain. Do they ever flower and seed there? If they can be grown to that height there, then there is a chance that one or two of the more cold hardy varieties of Coconut Palm could survive in a perfectly protected microclimate area on the south side of a two or three story building, if planted right up next to the building. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GottmitAlex Posted November 9, 2021 Report Share Posted November 9, 2021 5 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said: So, you agree, Alex? Of course John. Zone pushing implies: in ground 1 5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicante Posted November 9, 2021 Report Share Posted November 9, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, gurugu said: I lived in Motril for a couple of years and it froze uptown area, reaching -1,2Cº once. Downtown Motril is 50 mts. a.s.l., but uptown places can reach over 100 mts a.s.l. and northern winds coming from Sierra Lújar (2.200 mts a.s.l.) make temperatures in the valley drop significantly. I don´t think any place all along the south coast of Spain reach a yearly average of 20Cº. It is more wishful thinking than facts. Maybe dowtown big cities such as Cádiz, Málaga or Almería, due to big cities heat islands. Which, by the way, would be the best places to try to grow cocos in the ground. There are many places from Nerja to Almuñecar and from Motril to Almería, where mountains die just on the sea, and I think these places would also be perfect spots to grow cocos too. The closer the mountains to the sea, the warmer in winter. Places such as La Punta de la Mona and Cotobro , near Almuñecar, for instance. Here you have delonix regia in Torrenueva. https://www.google.com/maps/@36.7047575,-3.4901448,3a,15y,230.01h,104.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYVBOCQVsp8nE6O73NoiSkA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 The AEMET station of Motril is located in Motril Puerto (port, right by the coast) yes actually when we refer to Motril it's the coastline, the town itself is more inland at some kilometers from the coast in a higher altitude just as you've said. The town of Motril has still lot of potential though, but it's cooler than the coastal part as obvious. But I have to differ on the +20ºC annual average in Spain because that's shown on the official AEMET map. I saw it first in an AEMET bulletin and it's also available on their website. You can see it by clicking "temperatura media" and then making a full zoom on the southern coast. 2 coastal stretches are painted in deep yellow which means annual averages above 20ºC, one of them being exactly in Adra. The other areas are unpopulated areas or too small towns. Since Almería for example has an annual average of 19.1ºC (1981-2010 and in the airport, without any UHI) I don't find it impossible for the warmest spots to have 20ºC. But obviously that's just a couple of small spots, the warmest mainland Spain does have. http://www.aemet.es/es/serviciosclimaticos/datosclimatologicos/valoresclimatologicos Here is the official AEMET website if you want to check it. 50 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said: Beautiful Royal Poinciana. I had no idea they could be grown in southernmost Spain. Do they ever flower and seed there? If they can be grown to that height there, then there is a chance that one or two of the more cold hardy varieties of Coconut Palm could survive in a perfectly protected microclimate area on the south side of a two or three story building, if planted right up next to the building. John Royal Poincianas (flamboyans) aren't uncommon in the southern coast of Spain. There are many public ones in gardens and parks in the provinces of Cádiz, Málaga and Granada. The biggest amount of specimens are found within the province of Málaga. Yes, they do flower but I can't say exactly how often. I think yearly, but I can't confirm it. In the following pages you have some pics of flowered Poincianas within the area and province of Málaga. I'll post one, there are more inside the links: https://archivo.infojardin.com/tema/delonix-regia-ha-florecido-en-la-peninsula-iberica.388148/ https://www.infojardin.com/fotos/displayimage.php-album=1261&pos=12.htm https://twitter.com/malagaconacento/status/1158677329666854912 https://www.infojardin.com/fotos/displayimage.php-album=1261&pos=15.htm https://medioambientepaisajesyciudadverde.wordpress.com/2020/07/17/el-flamboyant/ Edited November 9, 2021 by Alicante 1 1 I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicante Posted November 9, 2021 Report Share Posted November 9, 2021 52 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said: Beautiful Royal Poinciana. I had no idea they could be grown in southernmost Spain. Do they ever flower and seed there? If they can be grown to that height there, then there is a chance that one or two of the more cold hardy varieties of Coconut Palm could survive in a perfectly protected microclimate area on the south side of a two or three story building, if planted right up next to the building. John Do you think so? Delonix Regia / Royal Poinciana are obviously not a very common type of tree in the southern coast of Spain but it's neither that uncommon. For example, check the list of tropical and ultra tropicals fruits I wrote yesterday, well I forgot to put the Papaya which is the 4rd most grown there. But Papayas grow in my area as well. - Koubo fruit - Salak - Snake fruit - Mangosteen - Rambutan - Guava - Carambola - Star Fruit - Pitaya - Dragon Fruit - Sapote - Jujube - Longan - Litchi - Pitanga - Papaya - Passionfruit - Maracuya - Cherimoya - Custard Apple I've also posted sources where they mention all of these fruits grow in that area. Just as @gurugu said, that area is "naturally blessed" because the mountains literally reach the sea in some points, thus giving them an extreme natural shelter, that's why they can grow such a crazy list of ultra tropicals, whatever if it's fruits, palms, trees or flowers. But could a coconut really do it planted on the ground? Maybe on the perfect spot in the warmest microclimate. I think (at least by average daytimes) that it's as warm as mainland Europe can get during winters, but I still firmly think that a more extreme cold spell could barren a coconut. But well, since Snake fruits can be grown (ultra tropical fruit from Sumatra) maybe there is one chance. After all, the potted one has survived 7 winters in a row outside without protection and it's growing as well. But I don't know. I still think the most solid chance is within Cyprus, but that's geographically in Asia / Middle East at a lower latitude. They do also grow in Israel and northern Egypt. 1 I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicante Posted November 9, 2021 Report Share Posted November 9, 2021 Here is a good collection of pics and info about some of the palms planted in Parque de Málaga, the main park in downtown Málaga. It's a safe University link, it's a PDF made out of Scientific Work with real pics made inside the park. https://dialnet.unirioja.es/descarga/articulo/7704460.pdf Most of the palms can be seen with pics in the PDF from the link. The list includes: - Dypsis leptocheilos - Dypsis decaryi - Ravenea rivularis - Hyophorbe verschaffeltii - Latania loddigesii - Latania lontaroides - Dictyosperma album - Jubaeopsis caffra - Gaussia maya - Howea forsteriana - Howea belmoreana - Pritchardia munroi 1 1 I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicante Posted November 9, 2021 Report Share Posted November 9, 2021 This is the full list of palms, plants and flowers that are grown inside the main park of Málaga. Taken from this site, it has many pics as well: https://jardinessinfronteras.com/2018/12/20/el-parque-de-malaga-un-paraiso-en-la-ciudad/ Acalypha wilkesiana Acer negundo Acoelorrhaphe wrightii Acokanthera oblongifolia Acrocomia aculeata Agapathus africanus Araucaria bidwillii Araucaria columnaris Araucaria heterophylla Archontophoenix alexandrae Archontophoenix cunninghamiana Archontophoenix purpurea Arenga engleri Bauhinia purpurea Beaucarnea recurvata Beaumontia grandiflora Bismarckia nobilis Brachychiton acerifolius Brahea armata Brahea brandegeei Brahea calcarea Brugmansia arborea Brunfelsia pauciflora Butia capitata Butia paraguayensis Butia yatay Calendula officinalis Callistemon viminalis Codiaeum variegatum Caryota mitis Caryota obtusa Caryota urens Cedrela odorata Ceiba speciosa. Celtis australis Cephalotaxus harringtonia Cestrum nocturnum Chamaedorea costaricana Chamaedorea elegans Chamaerops humilis Chambeyronia macrocarpa Citharexylum spinosum Citrus aurantium Clivia miniata Coccoloba uvifera Coccothrinax alta Coccothrinax fragrans Combretum indicum Cryosophila stauracantha Cryosophila warscewiczii Cycas revoluta Dombeya x cayeuxii Dracaena deremensis Dracaena draco Dypsis leptocheilos Dypsis lutescens Dypsis madagascariensis Encephalartos laurentianus Erythrina caffra Euphorbia milii Ficus microcarpa Furcraea selloa Gaussia maya Ginkgo biloba Grevillea robusta Harpephyllum caffrum Hedera helix Hemerocallis fulva Hibiscus arnottianus Hibiscus rosa sinensis Howea belmoreana Howea forsteriana Hyophorbe verschaffeltii Inga edulis Jacaranda mimosifolia Jasminum officinale Jubaeopsis caffra Kigelia africana Lagestroemia indica Latania loddigesii Lilium candidum Livistona australis Livistona benthamii Livistona chinensis Livistona decipiens Livistona decora Livistona nitida Macadamia integrifolia Macrozamia moorei Magnolia grandiflora Meryta denhamii Montanoa bipinnatifida Monstera deliciosa Murraya paniculata Musa x paradisiaca Nannorrhops ritchieana Pandanus utilis Paraserianthes lophantha Parajubaea torallyi Persea americana Petrea volubilis Phoenix canariensis Phoenix dactilifera Phoenix roebelenii Phoenix rupicola Phyllostachys aurea Pinanga coronata Pinus canariensis Pittosporum tobira Platanus xhispanica Plumeria rubra / Plumeria alba Podocarpus neriifolius Pritchardia hillebrandii Ptychosperma caryotoides Philodendron xanadu Ptychosperma elegans Ptychosperma waitianum Quercus ilex Quercus robur Ravenea rivularis Rhapis excelsa Rhapis humilis Rhopalostylis baueri Roystonea borinquena Roystonea oleracea Roystonea regia Rondeletia odorata Russelia equisetiformis Sabal bermudana Sabal dominguensis Sabal mauritiiformis Sabal palmetto Spathiphyllum wallisii Spathodea campanulata Schefflera arboricola Strelitzia nicolai Strelitzia reginae Tagetes Tabebuia heterophylla Tabebuia rosea) Taxodium mucronatum Tecoma stans Tetraclinis articulata Trachycarpus fortunei Trithrinax brasiliensis Veitchia arecina Wallichia oblongifolia Washingtonia filifera Washingtonia robusta Wodyetia bifurcata Yucca gigantea Yucca elephantipes 3 I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicante Posted November 9, 2021 Report Share Posted November 9, 2021 And here it goes a "Roystonea Jungle" near Málaga, as well as Dypsis Decaryi and Biscmarckia Nobilis one, amongst other palms. https://archivo.infojardin.com/tema/fotos-de-buenos-ejemplares-de-roystonea-regia-en-vivero-malaga-y-limpieza-de-tronco.202730/ Lots of pics inside the source, I won't post them here because it includes people in them. I'll just stick to put the link so you can enjoy it! I don't know exactly which kind of air do they have in the southern coast of Spain (especially Málaga) but Roystoneas grow there like if they were native plants. As I've read inside this forum from other people, it looks completely out of place within Europe when it comes to gardening and palms. And I can agree for example comparing with my area which is actually very warm and the climate is not too different from Málaga, but in my zone some of the palms from that list won't grow and Roystoneas don't grow like champs here. Besides in my area, Bismarckia Nobilis grow like if they were in their home as well. I will post soon pics of a "palm hunting" trip I made just to find rare palms and I found real gems, I found lots of lots and giant Bismarckias that grew up a ton in barely few years as well as I've found a very tall Roystonea in a private garden. I'll make another separate thread for that. Here below is the pic of the "Roystonea jungle" in Málaga, the Info Jardín source from above has many more. Enjoy! 4 I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GottmitAlex Posted November 9, 2021 Report Share Posted November 9, 2021 1 hour ago, GottmitAlex said: Of course John. Zone pushing implies: in ground At almost 33° N. (32.51°) to be exact. 5 1 5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltese coconut project Posted November 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2021 True but it's also true that at an altitude of a rooftop they are also more exposed to wind especially cold northern and North Western winds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltese coconut project Posted November 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2021 Which area do you live in? (just to have an idea of your climate) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GottmitAlex Posted November 10, 2021 Report Share Posted November 10, 2021 11 hours ago, Maltese coconut project said: Which area do you live in? (just to have an idea of your climate) In the border area between San Diego, California and Tijuana, Baja California. 12-14 miles inland 5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltese coconut project Posted November 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2021 I apologise but I was supposed to ask Mr Coconut palm the question regarding area (I think I already asked you that question long ago and you did inform me about your area too,, sorry for the seemingly repeated question) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltese coconut project Posted November 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2021 Which area do you live in? (just to have an idea of your climate) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicante Posted November 11, 2021 Report Share Posted November 11, 2021 @GottmitAlex @Mr. Coconut Palm @Maltese coconut project What do you think about the growing possibilities in this city within the province of Almería? I just found this official WMO data about this city, didn't know about it before, turns out it's the 2nd biggest city in the province of Almería. It's naturally protected as well as it gets constant heat currents from Africa. These are the averages: https://worldweather.wmo.int/en/city.html?cityId=2904 - Only 3 months have average highs under 21ºC / 70F - The coldest month is January with an average high of 17.5ºC / 63.5F - The annual average is 19.87ºC / 67.8F and the summers are hot with very warm nights. Do you think coconuts hold any chance in this climate? Delonix Regia / Royal Poincianas grow in Roquetas de Mar if that's an indicator. I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GottmitAlex Posted November 12, 2021 Report Share Posted November 12, 2021 8 hours ago, Alicante said: @GottmitAlex @Mr. Coconut Palm @Maltese coconut project What do you think about the growing possibilities in this city within the province of Almería? I just found this official WMO data about this city, didn't know about it before, turns out it's the 2nd biggest city in the province of Almería. It's naturally protected as well as it gets constant heat currents from Africa. These are the averages: https://worldweather.wmo.int/en/city.html?cityId=2904 - Only 3 months have average highs under 21ºC / 70F - The coldest month is January with an average high of 17.5ºC / 63.5F - The annual average is 19.87ºC / 67.8F and the summers are hot with very warm nights. Do you think coconuts hold any chance in this climate? Delonix Regia / Royal Poincianas grow in Roquetas de Mar if that's an indicator. @Alicante What are the average lows for that city? 5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicante Posted November 12, 2021 Report Share Posted November 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said: @Alicante What are the average lows for that city? All of the monthly averages are in the World Meteorological Organization / WMO website. This is the link: https://worldweather.wmo.int/en/city.html?cityId=2904 There you have all highs/lows during each month. I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GottmitAlex Posted November 12, 2021 Report Share Posted November 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Alicante said: All of the monthly averages are in the World Meteorological Organization / WMO website. This is the link: https://worldweather.wmo.int/en/city.html?cityId=2904 There you have all highs/lows during each month. The website is not opening on my phone. I'll try later on my computer. 5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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