Can cocos survive in Lindos,Rhodes in Greece?

[southathens]

@Victor G.

I am reposting my answer from the other thread since its more relevant here.

Kasos having dropped to 8.0C so far records the highest absolute low in Greece for 2023.

The recent prolonged cold snap in Greece never really affected Kasos

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Manos33

[southathens]

Greece is still recovering from the recent cold snap. 

Minimum Ts remain below average and will continue to do so until Wednesday 

Once again Kasos is virtually untouched by these Ts.  As you can clearly see on the map of NOA stations it was by far the warmest station in Greece in terms of minimums with 11.5C today.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Manos33

[southathens]

And here the updated freely available climate data for Lindos until Feb 2023.

The station of the National Observatory of Athens in Lindos in around two weeks will go into the 10th year of operation with freely available data. 

So we are getting into a point where it is unlikely that the data below will have significant differences from a full time series.

The fact that the average annual temperature in Lindos remains close to 22°C is significant for European standards.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Manos33

[southathens]

Confirmation that recently almost all of the National Observatory of Athens stations have received a WMO id

https://oscar.wmo.int/surface/#/search/station/stationReportDetails/0-300-1-athens

https://community.wmo.int/en/activity-areas/WIGOS/implementation-WIGOS/WIGOS-station-identifier

To find details for each station click on the map at the right.

[southathens]

Here is the link regarding the WMO id of Lindos station

https://oscar.wmo.int/surface/#/search/station/stationReportDetails/0-300-1-lindos

[southathens]

New July record set today in Lindos at 42.7C

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Crete has registered a stunning 35.1C earlier today at Sisi WMO station from NOA.

This is a new European T record for November

https://penteli.meteo.gr/stations/sisi/

[southathens]

 

[Aceraceae]

The Mediterranean and Black Sea are 3 C (5 F) or more above datum consistently most of the year and into the fall increasing anomaly the past few days. 

[southathens]

Updated climate data for Lindos until October 2023.

Today Lindos broke its all time November record by almost 1C registering 27.2C

In 4 months Lindos will have 10 full years of freely available data!

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Manos33

[Aceraceae]

Those temps are close to Cocos level. 14 C coldest month and 22 C for the year. Cocos needs about 60 F in the coldest month (15 C) and the year should be over room temperature (>22 C or 72 F). Mediterranean climates like Haifa Israel just have too much of the rain in the cold season. 35 C / 95 F summer average highs are also almost too hot and so islands or marine locations are needed. Seaside Puerto Penasco, Rocky Point, Sonora Mexico has no rain but enhanced humidity and lower summer high temps than Phoenix, and can grow irrigated Coconut palms. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Aceraceae

[southathens]

19 hours ago, Aceraceae said:

Those temps are close to Cocos level. 14 C coldest month and 22 C for the year. Cocos needs about 60 F in the coldest month (15 C) and the year should be over room temperature (>22 C or 72 F). Mediterranean climates like Haifa Israel just have too much of the rain in the cold season. 35 C / 95 F summer average highs are also almost too hot and so islands or marine locations are needed. Seaside Puerto Penasco, Rocky Point, Sonora Mexico has no rain but enhanced humidity and lower summer high temps than Phoenix, and can grow irrigated Coconut palms. 

The problem is that we just have no idea if cocos can survive in Lindos. No one has tried it as far as we know. And it makes sense. While during the summer period hundred of thousands of tourists visit Lindos during the winter barely 1000 people live there...

[Aceraceae]

Isn't Kasos even better than Lindos because it's a more southern small island that has the warm winters but less extreme desert heat in the summer? 

[southathens]

17 hours ago, Aceraceae said:

Isn't Kasos even better than Lindos because it's a more southern small island that has the warm winters but less extreme desert heat in the summer? 

of course Kasos is better in terms of winter T's but it is very dry...

Below are the climate normals for Kasos

 

[southathens]

Below Greece's highest monthly averages T's from the WMO network of the National Observatory of Athens.

Lindos and Kastelorizo dominate in summer and winter means and lows while Sparta dominates in summer maxes. Most mean and average lows are European records.

 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Manos33

[southathens]

A noteworthy average max of 27.0C in Crete so far in November

 https://web.archive.org/web/20231117140715/https://penteli.meteo.gr/stations/chaniacenter/NOAAYR.TXT

I seriously doubt we ever had an area in Europe so far inside November to register an average max of 27C. 

It's a first for Greece. Ts will cool down a bit the next few days all over Greece but we might still beat the 24C record avg high of 2019.

[southathens]

Below some of Greece's climatological extremes updated through October 2023

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Manos33

[southathens]

Greece's recent highest summer mean max Ts. Only WMO stations with at least 10 years of data.

[Aceraceae]

On 11/5/2023 at 10:20 PM, Aceraceae said:

The Mediterranean and Black Sea are 3 C (5 F) or more above datum consistently most of the year and into the fall increasing anomaly the past few days. 

Sea temps here are still about 3 C 5F high on average approaching winter when it matters more, as other mid latitude water cools faster. Almost as impressive as the current strong El Nino. Does an EU med-nino cause Heavier rain in Haifa or the Greek Isles? Not so far overall this fall. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Aceraceae

[southathens]

Greece's first serious cold snap for this year. Let's see how low Ts will fall in the mildest areas

[southathens]

Second day on the row that Kasos records the highest minimum Ts during this cold snap..

[southathens]

We had a very cold night in Greece. Kasos is offline. Once its back we will see if it beats the 13.1 minimum in Kastelorizo. Meanwhile Monemvasia fell to 7.9C and still retains 11a zone classification. The only area in mainland Greece to do so. 

[southathens]

The winter in Greece, especially in our south islands is turning pretty mild so far. 

We have areas in Kasos and Kastelorizo with average January minimums with over 14C. In fact Kastelorizo is almost 15C up until today. 

It is seriously challenging the warmest stations of the Azores with a mean minimum T for January well over 12C during the period 2018-2024 that the WMO station is operating. 

It's high time that we start planting cocos in the Dodecanese. Areas like the port of Rhodes,  Lindos, coastal Kasos, Karpathos, Kastelorizo even Monemvasia in mainland Greece are all 11a hardiness zone. I bet we can do it...

Edited January 21 by Manos33

[southathens]

Guys, a very impressive find on Lindos...

It appears that it registers 154 tropical nights per year! Meaning that for more than 5 months per year Ts never drop below 20C. In fact back in 2018 it experienced tropical nights for 6 months! That beats the whole of geographical Europe by far. Also it beats all of the Canary islands! Astonishing.

Edited January 27 by Manos33

[Foxpalms]

1 hour ago, Manos33 said:

Guys, a very impressive find on Lindos...

It appears that it registers 154 tropical nights per year! Meaning that for more than 5 months per year Ts never drop below 20C. In fact back in 2018 it experienced tropical nights for 6 months! That beats the whole of geographical Europe by far. Also it beats all of the Canary islands! Astonishing.

Parts of the canary islands probably have more tropical nights per year but there are not official weather stations. For example Los Gigantes Tenerife and a few other microclimates. Even now in the winter the nights are warm.  Around 7+ months of lows over 20c.  But it does still show just how mild that area of Greece is.

[southathens]

56 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

Parts of the canary islands probably have more tropical nights per year but there are not official weather stations. For example Los Gigantes Tenerife and a few other microclimates. Even now in the winter the nights are warm.  Around 7+ months of lows over 20c.  But it does still show just how mild that area of Greece is.

 

The stats I see for Tenerife is around 130 tropical nights. El Hierro I think has the highest at about 150+ tropical nights as well.

Also this Jan has been very mild for the Canaries. 

[Foxpalms]

49 minutes ago, Manos33 said:

 

The stats I see for Tenerife is around 130 tropical nights. El Hierro I think has the highest at about 150+ tropical nights as well.

Also this Jan has been very mild for the Canaries. 

The problem is there's only one official weather station in Tenerife south which is above sea level at the airport slightly inland and it seems quite a lot of the time it just misses out on tropical nights whilst ones closer to the sea or further west don't. Santa cruz de Tenerife.  The weather changes with very little distance on Tenerife especially drastically.  Los gigantes for example has very high mountains around it.  When the Tenerife south airport goes below 20c quite a lot of the time you will good costal microclimates in south western Tenerife just stay above 20c.

[southathens]

31 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

The problem is there's only one official weather station in Tenerife south which is above sea level at the airport slightly inland and it seems quite a lot of the time it just misses out on tropical nights whilst ones closer to the sea or further west don't. Santa cruz de Tenerife.  The weather changes with very little distance on Tenerife especially drastically.  Los gigantes for example has very high mountains around it.  When the Tenerife south airport goes below 20c quite a lot of the time you will good costal microclimates in south western Tenerife just stay above 20c.

Right, obviously microclimates can have this impact. The thing is the wunderground stations are not credible most of the times these are junk stations. I bet we can find even today a few in the UK with crazy minimums hehhe. 

In any case the strongest station in Tenerife is not the AP but the city station which reaches around 130 tropical nights. El Hierro also ties Lindos with 154 tropical nights. But the fact that we are comparing Rhodes at 36N latitude with the Canaries next to the Tropic of Cancer is surprising. I mean its clear Lindos beats all areas of geographical Europe but the fact that it beats Tenerife or Las Palmas is noteworthy. I never thought about it.

There might be more stations in the Dodecanese with even more tropical nights such as Kasos, Kastelorizo etc. I will need to check them thoroughly first...

Edited January 27 by Manos33

[southathens]

Around 156 tropical nights per year in Kastelorizo 

Edited January 28 by Manos33

[mirandamavrogianni]

Hello! I just moved to Milos from Hawaii, my husband is greek so that’s the reason for the move. I must say that I really miss my coconuts and would like to experiment with growing them here. I have read through this thread that started in 2021 and I’m wondering if anyone has grown a coconut in Greece?? If so, what were your results?

 

My other question is about the hardiness zones. As much as I wanted to understand what you all were talking about I admit it was a bit complicated from me. I come from USDA zones which information is readily available about. Can anyone please help me determine the hardiness zones of Milos island? 🙏

 

I really hope that my dreams of growing a coconut here will be doable, I’m only going to experiment with the cold tolerant coconut varieties. It made since to me that the problem with coconuts here may not be the nighttime lows, but the daytime highs during the winter.. 

 

PS so glad this thread is still continuing after all these years, I hope to hear from you!!

[mirandamavrogianni]

On 12/13/2022 at 12:42 AM, Manos33 said:

Hello all!

So after some debate over in the Greek forum we have emailed the Municipality of Rhodes in order to draw some attention to their Green Service regarding the potential planting of cocos under the auspices of the Municipality in the Port of Rhodes..

Below is the email we sent them in Greek... If you want help I can give you a rough translation. Let's hope they will come back to us with a positive answer...

@Victor G. @ego @Phoenikakias @Janni @Stelios

guys check it out!!!

 

Αγαπητή Διεύθυνση Περιβάλλοντος Ρόδου,

 

Σας γράφουμε εκ μέρους της ερασιτεχνικής Πρωτοβουλίας Ελλάδας για τη Καλλιέργεια Κοκοφοίνικα . 

 

Επικοινωνούμε μαζί σας, καθώς ύστερα από συστηματική παρακολούθηση των κλιματικών δεδομένων της πόλης της Ρόδου, από τους μετεωρολογικούς σταθμούς τόσο του Εθνικού Αστεροσκοπείου Αθήνων όσο και του Δημοτικού Λιμενικού Ταμείου Νότιας Δωδεκανήσου, θεωρούμε οτι η πόλη της Ρόδου ειδικά στα χαμηλότερα υψόμετρα και παραλιακά είναι μια από τις πιο πλεονεκτικές τοποθεσίες στον Ελλαδικό χώρο για την επιτυχή δενδροφύτευση κοκοφοινίκων (Cocos Nucifera) .

 

Η ομάδα μας έχει εκπονήσει τον πρώτο οδηγό στα Ελληνικά για την καλλιέργεια κοκοφοινίκων προσαρμοσμένο στο κλίμα των Δωδεκανήσων τον οποίο μπορείτε να βρείτε παρακάτω. 

 

https://www.karpathiakanea.gr/cocos-nucifera-odigos-kaliergias/

 

Όπως καταλαβαίνεται η δενδροφύτευση κοκοφοίνικα εκτός τροπικών κλιμάτων είναι μια πολύ ευαίσθητη διαδικασία και σήμερα δεν έχει υπάρξει καμία επιτυχημένη δενδροφύτευση του συγκεκριμένου φυτού επί Ευρωπαικού εδάφος με εξαίρεση την Πάφο της Κύπρου. 

 

Ύστερα από σοβαρή μελέτη όμως των κλιματικών δεδομένων της πόλης της Ρόδου σε αντιπαραβολή με αυτών της Πάφου και παρατηρώντας πως η πόλη της Ρόδου (ειδικά πέριξ του λιμανιού) έχει ηπιότερους χειμώνες από την Πάφο (πάνω από 2 βαθμούς κελσίου υψηλότερες μέσες ελάχιστες θερμοκρασίες χειμερινών μηνών) θα θέλαμε να θέσουμε υπόψιν σας την αρκετά μεγάλη πιθανότητα η πόλη της Ρόδου να γίνει η βορειότερη περιοχή στον πλανήτη που θα έχει καταφέρει επιτυχή δενδροφύτευση κοκοφοίνικα εκτός θερμοκηπίου σε περίπτωση που ο Δήμος σας αποφασίσει να προχωρήσει σε πιλωτική δενδροφύτευση των φυτών. 

 

Παρακάτω μπορείτε να βρείτε μερικά links όπου γίνονται εκτεταμένες συζητήσεις από ερασιτέχνες καλλιεργητές τροπικών φυτών από όλο τον κόσμο αλλά και την Ελλάδα αναφορικά με τις καλές πιθανότητες της πόλης της Ρόδου να καταφέρει επιτυχή καλλιέργεια κοκοφοινίκων. 

 

 

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/68701-can-cocos-survive-in-lindosrhodes-in-greece/?do=findComment&comment=1079733

 

 

https://weather-club.gr/main/index.php?/topic/484-%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B1%CF%84%CE%B9%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%AC-%CE%BA%CE%B1%CE%B9-%CF%84%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%80%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%AD%CF%82-%CE%BA%CE%B1%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%B9%CE%AD%CF%81%CE%B3%CE%B5%CE%B9%CE%B5%CF%82-%CF%80%CE%BF%CF%85-%CE%BC%CF%80%CE%BF%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%8D%CE%BC%CE%B5-%CE%BD%CE%B1-%CF%86%CF%84%CE%AC%CF%83%CE%BF%CF%85%CE%BC%CE%B5-%CF%84%CE%BF-%CE%B5%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%B7%CE%BD%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%8C-%CE%BA%CE%BB%CE%AF%CE%BC%CE%B1-%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B1-%CF%8C%CF%81%CE%B9%CE%B1-%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%85/&do=findComment&comment=331971

 

 

 

Θα θέλαμε να σας ενημερώσουμε, πως είμαστε διαθέσιμοι ώστε να παρέχουμε στον Δήμο σας οποιαδήποτε βοήθεια σε περίπτωση που αποφασίσετε πιλοτικά να δενδροφυτεύσετε μερικά δένδρα κοκοφοινίκων στη πόλη της Ρόδου. Μπορούμε φυσικά να δράσουμε επικουρικά και συμβουλευτικά στους γεωπόνους της υπηρεσίας σας εφόσον δείξετε σχετικό ενδιαφέρον.

 

Σας ευχαριστούμε πολύ για τον χρόνο σας και παραμένουμε στη διάθεση σας.

 

Με εκτίμηση,

 

Πρωτοβουλία Ελλάδας για τη Καλλιέργεια Κοκοφοίνικα

so cool! what was their response? 

[southathens]

4 hours ago, mirandamavrogianni said:

Hello! I just moved to Milos from Hawaii, my husband is greek so that’s the reason for the move. I must say that I really miss my coconuts and would like to experiment with growing them here. I have read through this thread that started in 2021 and I’m wondering if anyone has grown a coconut in Greece?? If so, what were your results?

 

My other question is about the hardiness zones. As much as I wanted to understand what you all were talking about I admit it was a bit complicated from me. I come from USDA zones which information is readily available about. Can anyone please help me determine the hardiness zones of Milos island? 🙏

 

I really hope that my dreams of growing a coconut here will be doable, I’m only going to experiment with the cold tolerant coconut varieties. It made since to me that the problem with coconuts here may not be the nighttime lows, but the daytime highs during the winter.. 

 

PS so glad this thread is still continuing after all these years, I hope to hear from you!!

Hello Miranda and welcome!!!

What is your altitude in Milos?

The official WMO station of Milos that you will need to follow can be found in the link below

https://penteli.meteo.gr/stations/milos/

I calculated for you Milos's USDA zone from the data of the above station and I must say I am very impressed on how mild it is considering the WMO station is at 162 meters altitude! So Milos works out a solid 10b USDA zone with a mean of absolute minimum Ts at 3.33C just 1C shy of entering 11a zone...

I guess that locations in Milos at sea level altitudes could be really flirting with 11a zone!

The fact that it has never recorded freezing Ts at this altitude and with really strong cold snaps affecting Greece throughout the years is very very encouraging. I would suggest that you give cocos a try...It might be doable...especially if you live at lower altitudes in Milos.

 

Edited January 29 by Manos33

[southathens]

3 hours ago, mirandamavrogianni said:

so cool! what was their response? 

The Municipality of Rhodes  never got back to us...

Edited January 29 by Manos33

[mirandamavrogianni]

On 1/29/2024 at 1:09 PM, Manos33 said:

Hello Miranda and welcome!!!

What is your altitude in Milos?

The official WMO station of Milos that you will need to follow can be found in the link below

https://penteli.meteo.gr/stations/milos/

I calculated for you Milos's USDA zone from the data of the above station and I must say I am very impressed on how mild it is considering the WMO station is at 162 meters altitude! So Milos works out a solid 10b USDA zone with a mean of absolute minimum Ts at 3.33C just 1C shy of entering 11a zone...

I guess that locations in Milos at sea level altitudes could be really flirting with 11a zone!

The fact that it has never recorded freezing Ts at this altitude and with really strong cold snaps affecting Greece throughout the years is very very encouraging. I would suggest that you give cocos a try...It might be doable...especially if you live at lower altitudes in Milos.

 

Thank you for the response and warm welcome! Also thank you for putting together the USDA zone, I'm surprised in a good way by the 10b zone!

We are located in P. Triovasalos which is a little bit higher than sea level and we get a lot of wind here. I think the experiment would be better to do along the south side. Lately, the past week has been cold with the wind and I'm afraid that the coconuts would not survive this since the daytime temperature remains low with lots of clouds. But if taken care of, brought inside during this time, or protected outside, it could work. 

I'm wondering if you have tried to grow coconuts yourself? Do you know of anyone who has tried to do this? I'd think that someone in Crete would have tried by now considering they are a bit more south.

[southathens]

5 hours ago, mirandamavrogianni said:

Thank you for the response and warm welcome! Also thank you for putting together the USDA zone, I'm surprised in a good way by the 10b zone!

We are located in P. Triovasalos which is a little bit higher than sea level and we get a lot of wind here. I think the experiment would be better to do along the south side. Lately, the past week has been cold with the wind and I'm afraid that the coconuts would not survive this since the daytime temperature remains low with lots of clouds. But if taken care of, brought inside during this time, or protected outside, it could work. 

I'm wondering if you have tried to grow coconuts yourself? Do you know of anyone who has tried to do this? I'd think that someone in Crete would have tried by now considering they are a bit more south.

You are welcome! I see that Pera Triovasalos is around 100 meters altitude. I think only areas at sea level in Milos might sustain coco's who will need to be protected in cold spells like the one we are having now. Tomorrow will be the last day of the 4 day cold snap and by the end of the week we will back to high teens or low 20s in most of south Greece. It doesnt really matter if u are in the north or south of Milos as long as u are at about sea level. I think these areas should be 11a all around coastal Milos

I haven't tried growing cocos as Athens would not be ideal. We tried finding people in Greece who tried cocos but no one so far has reached out. There should be people out there trying it....we just need to find them

Below Greece's areas at 11a zone according to the data of the WMO met stations.

Edited January 30 by Manos33

[mirandamavrogianni]

Thank you for this information! I don’t recognize any of those locations being in Mílos from the 11a list, do they have Milos listed as something else?

 

I would definitely like to be one of the few people trying to grow coconuts here. As I mentioned I am from Hawaii and I suppose this gives me more appreciation for this beloved plant.. 

I’m curious which cold tolerant dwarf coconut varieties you recommend I try to grow and do you know how I can get my hand on some sprouts? 

[southathens]

3 hours ago, mirandamavrogianni said:

Thank you for this information! I don’t recognize any of those locations being in Mílos from the 11a list, do they have Milos listed as something else?

 

I would definitely like to be one of the few people trying to grow coconuts here. As I mentioned I am from Hawaii and I suppose this gives me more appreciation for this beloved plant.. 

I’m curious which cold tolerant dwarf coconut varieties you recommend I try to grow and do you know how I can get my hand on some sprouts? 

No, none of them are in Milos. The closest 11a to Milos is Monemvasia station in mainland Greece but like I told u low elevation coastal areas all around the island will be flirting with 11a zone. 

I am not good with varieties to tell you the truth. I am mostly into climatology. 

[Than]

On 2/2/2024 at 5:16 PM, mirandamavrogianni said:

Thank you for this information! I don’t recognize any of those locations being in Mílos from the 11a list, do they have Milos listed as something else?

 

I would definitely like to be one of the few people trying to grow coconuts here. As I mentioned I am from Hawaii and I suppose this gives me more appreciation for this beloved plant.. 

I’m curious which cold tolerant dwarf coconut varieties you recommend I try to grow and do you know how I can get my hand on some sprouts? 

My advice: don't take zones so literally. They are created mainly for US climates and they don't take into account many other important aspects, such as the maximum temperatures, the length of cold snaps etc. The chances of a coconut growing in Milos are very slim. As a well respected member here used to say: "your fridge is zone 11".

No harm in trying of course, we never know. Good luck.

[mlovecan]

I live 7 km from Lindos. My Dutch coconut from summer of 2022 was under glass for about 6 days in January. Other than that, it's been outside all winter. Didn't mind heavy rains in December and January. My summer 2023 has just come out of shaded glass and seeing it's first bit of Greek sun. The time in the shade (8 or 9 months) seems to greatly toughen those things up.

When I was at the hardware store in Rhodes town (colder than here) that sells the Dutch cocos, I was quite surprised to see the staff left all them all outside during the coldest days and nights (when I brought my older one inside).  Some of them seem to be a bit cool damaged now, a couple weeks later (the leaves tend to fold in a bit and then they go into decline) but some of them still look perfect. I was planning on picking up one or two of the nicer ones this weekend and put them straight into shaded glass.

When you don't rush these Dutch cocos, they seem to adapt pretty well to this climate.

[Than]

22 hours ago, mlovecan said:

I live 7 km from Lindos. My Dutch coconut from summer of 2022 was under glass for about 6 days in January. Other than that, it's been outside all winter. Didn't mind heavy rains in December and January. My summer 2023 has just come out of shaded glass and seeing it's first bit of Greek sun. The time in the shade (8 or 9 months) seems to greatly toughen those things up.

When I was at the hardware store in Rhodes town (colder than here) that sells the Dutch cocos, I was quite surprised to see the staff left all them all outside during the coldest days and nights (when I brought my older one inside).  Some of them seem to be a bit cool damaged now, a couple weeks later (the leaves tend to fold in a bit and then they go into decline) but some of them still look perfect. I was planning on picking up one or two of the nicer ones this weekend and put them straight into shaded glass.

When you don't rush these Dutch cocos, they seem to adapt pretty well to this climate.

Wow, we were looking for someone like you! You live in one of the warmest spots in Greece. Any photos of your coconut and its surroundings? Is it against some wall, near a building, under a canopy, at the balcony? Is it still potted? I am so curious now! 🤤