Palmageddon Aftermath Photo Thread

[AnTonY]

21 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

I looked at 2010 how many hours were below 25, maybe 8, this year 30 plus I imagine there. Not in the same ballpark. 2010 was advective. I was at 17/18F this year 4F. According to the NWS, Rosenberg was 3F this year.

I see the numbers on the NWS, including the 16°F at Sugar Land on Jan 9th 2010 - that's probably the radiational freeze after the cold airmass moved in, with the day before being more of an advective event w/ wintry weather, if there was any. This event seems similar in that regard - cold advection at first last week on Sunday Night - Monday, with the radiational on Monday night -Tuesday morning.

But, I overall don't remember much of the Jan 2010 event in terms of specific details - especially problematic if the NWS made any changes regarding the timing of high/low temperature recordings since that time. I'll have to look back through older posts on this forum for that.

[Collectorpalms]

2 minutes ago, AnTonY said:

I see the numbers on the NWS, including the 16°F at Sugar Land on Jan 9th 2010 - that's probably the radiational freeze after the cold airmass moved in, with the day before being more of an advective event w/ wintry weather, if there was any. This event seems similar in that regard - cold advection at first last week on Sunday Night - Monday, with the radiational on Monday night -Tuesday morning.

But, I overall don't remember much of the Jan 2010 event in terms of specific details - especially problematic if the NWS made any changes regarding the timing of high/low temperature recordings since that time. I'll have to look back through older posts on this forum for that.

Me: Misquote, 2010 was radiational. 2011 was advective. I lived through them all painfully minute by minute.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[Xenon]

49 minutes ago, necturus said:

 

And then there's these guys...

 

Bismarckia in west Houston/Katy look deceptively good too. Maybe miracles do happen and Bizzies can survive 11-12F  (probably not) 

[necturus]

1 minute ago, Xenon said:

Bismarckia in west Houston/Katy look deceptively good too. Maybe miracles do happen and Bizzies can survive 11-12F  (probably not) 

I know from personal experience they can take a long time to declare their death. The leaves on this one and the ones in my yard just started changing colors. 

I think they're probably all dead, but maybe we'll be surprised. These guys are so massive that maybe their trunks provided adequate insulation. Who knows.

[Collectorpalms]

1 hour ago, necturus said:

Went for a walk. At one house with seven tall robustas, six had crown collapse. I'm bad at estimating height, but these compare with the tallest in town.  The best looking Washingtonia is a filifera near the elementary school. It has some canopy from a pine tree. Some filibusta-looking specimens look decent but are still burnt bad.

Best looking palms remain the Sabals and Butia. Some are starting to show damage. 

And then there's these guys...

I’ll be interested in how these do. What was low there? It looks like there was some irrigation work along drive. frozen pipes? They will be miracles or their heads will fall off.

... on a side note, why did one grow so much taller than the other?? Only thing from picture it makes the taller one in more grass and the other more to the concrete of drive. The right ones base appears more flared out at bottom as well. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[necturus]

2 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

I’ll be interested in how these do. What was low there? It looks like there was some irrigation work along drive. frozen pipes? They will be miracles or their heads will fall off.

... on a side note, why did one grow so much taller than the other?? Only thing from picture it makes the taller one in more grass and the other more to the concrete of drive. The right ones base appears more flared out at bottom as well. 

Yup, it's either going to be a miracle or very sad. I don't have a thermometer outside, but from WUnderground I think the low was 14. Not sure what's going on with the pipes.

I never looked back on Google Maps until now, but apparently they have been there since at least 2007. Even then there was a difference in size - the bigger one was trunking, whereas the smaller one was just starting. There was a huge CIDP to the right of the taller one as well. Pretty amazing, these guys outlasted a CIDP and a couple queens. Even if they don't make it, they've proven that Bismarckia are a lot tougher than they are given credit, especially once trunking.

[Keys6505]

Anyone use Southern Ag Liquid Copper Fungicide to treat after spear pull?  If so at what concentration?

[Keys6505]

4 hours ago, necturus said:

I know from personal experience they can take a long time to declare their death. The leaves on this one and the ones in my yard just started changing colors. 

Mine went full variegated

[NBTX11]

6 hours ago, necturus said:

Went for a walk. At one house with seven tall robustas, six had crown collapse. I'm bad at estimating height, but these compare with the tallest in town.  The best looking Washingtonia is a filifera near the elementary school. It has some canopy from a pine tree. Some filibusta-looking specimens look decent but are still burnt bad.

Best looking palms remain the Sabals and Butia. Some are starting to show damage. 

And then there's these guys...

If these palms survive, then we need to rethink planting Bismarckia around here.  Maybe these guys are a lot hardier than given credit for.

The fact that they got this tall and survived so long proves that they are quite hardy. 

[Xerarch]

20 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Hundreds of photos rolling in from customers in the area. Only large trunking palms not completely burned are a few sabal palmetto and trachycarpus. Everything else is toasted in DFW 

Does that mean that S Mexicana burned and S sabal palmetto did not? Or at least not as bad?

[Xenon]

36 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

If these palms survive, then we need to rethink planting Bismarckia around here.  Maybe these guys are a lot hardier than given credit for.

The fact that they got this tall and survived so long proves that they are quite hardy. 

Keep in mind ultimate bud hardiness (proven to upper teens in SE Texas) is not the same as functional use in the landscape. The leaves will burn below ~25F and it can take two years to regrow a full crown. The best looking bizzies in Houston are/were in warm "9b" areas that often go years without a hard freeze. 

[NBTX11]

23 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

Does that mean that S Mexicana burned and S sabal palmetto did not? Or at least not as bad?

Can't speak for DFW, but neither Sabal Palmetto or Sabal Mexicana burned from 9 degrees in San Antonio.

[Xerarch]

13 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Keep in mind ultimate bud hardiness (proven to upper teens in SE Texas) is not the same as functional use in the landscape. The leaves will burn below ~25F and it can take two years to regrow a full crown. The best looking bizzies in Houston are/were in warm "9b" areas that often go years without a hard freeze. 

Agree with this, I think a lot of people hear that X palm has been known to recover from X temperature and that's about the temperature that you go down to every year so that must mean that you can grow that palm.  So if Bizzy can survive an 18 degree event it must be an 8b palm right? WRONG.  Having said that I do think that bizzy's have proven quite a bit hardier than thought and I think they should be used much more in 9b and up areas.  It seems like when I was first learning about them years ago I thought they were more of a zone 10 palm and would up and die if it got into the mid 20's.  The reason I say a solid 9b is good is because you can afford to have a catastrophic event down to upper teens and still have a chance of recovery, provided you get a good couple years after that, that's great news.  I will be curious to follow these two large ones that are posted above.

[ahosey01]

17 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

Agree with this, I think a lot of people hear that X palm has been known to recover from X temperature and that's about the temperature that you go down to every year so that must mean that you can grow that palm.  So if Bizzy can survive an 18 degree event it must be an 8b palm right? WRONG.  Having said that I do think that bizzy's have proven quite a bit hardier than thought and I think they should be used much more in 9b and up areas.  It seems like when I was first learning about them years ago I thought they were more of a zone 10 palm and would up and die if it got into the mid 20's.  The reason I say a solid 9b is good is because you can afford to have a catastrophic event down to upper teens and still have a chance of recovery, provided you get a good couple years after that, that's great news.  I will be curious to follow these two large ones that are posted above.

I'd take this a step further and say that in a wet-winter climate like Houston - you're right, 9b.  In a dry-winter climate, 9a.  Mine saw low 20s like a dozen times this year without any sign of damage.  Likely because it's dry here.  Overnight lows in Wickenburg are a beast.  But then coldest ever in our history was like 15 so we're basically always right there.

[necturus]

Here's the Google Maps pictures of these guys from over the years

2007:

 

2011:

 

2013:

 

2015:

 

2018:

[necturus]

I don't think a quick dip to low 20s hurts these guys. It's sustained freezes that do damage.  Not a wet vs dry thing.

There is obviously variability within the species that we are not accounting for, either. Some people on here describe them being much weaker. We know the green leafed ones are not as hardy, but there's probably variation in the silver leafed ones too.

 

[AnTonY]

1 hour ago, ahosey01 said:

I'd take this a step further and say that in a wet-winter climate like Houston - you're right, 9b.  In a dry-winter climate, 9a.  Mine saw low 20s like a dozen times this year without any sign of damage.  Likely because it's dry here.  Overnight lows in Wickenburg are a beast.  But then coldest ever in our history was like 15 so we're basically always right there.

What is the definition of "wet" vs "dry" in terms of a winter climate? Arctic air, which is responsible for the coldest temperatures in Houston during winter, is always dry w/ very low dewpoints.

[ahosey01]

37 minutes ago, AnTonY said:

What is the definition of "wet" vs "dry" in terms of a winter climate? Arctic air, which is responsible for the coldest temperatures in Houston during winter, is always dry w/ very low dewpoints.

Yeah but compare that to something you see in the desert on a clear night (the coldest ones), and there's still a very big gap.  An event like that is certainly much drier than normal for Houston, but this particular snow was accompanied by freezing rain, cloud cover, etc. 

I picked a random downtown weather station, and the lowest humidity on the 16th - when the lows happened - was 43%.  Current humidity at my house is 22%, we average 10%-50% in the winter, with a February average of 34%.  Houston's February average, as I can find, is 75%.  Even in the dry winter air this station received during the arctic blast, it was still higher by 10% than the humidity average for our entire month of February.

Also, in the low desert in AZ and SE California - and I believe it's similar in SW FL ( @PalmatierMeg can correct me if this is wrong) - you do not typically get precipitation events on your coldest nights.  In this event, Texas received quite a bit of precipitation.  Similarly, our daytime highs have never historically remained below freezing.  I believe our all-time lowest high was like 40F or something similar.  @Silas_Sancona might know that tidbit of information.

Anyways - think about it like this.  Here where I'm at, at the bottom of a river valley in the mid-altitude (2500ft) desert, near an oasis, I'll hit low-to-mid-20s a dozen times every year, and the once-in-a-century events will take us down to 14-16F.  Those lows will almost always happen in the absence of precipitation, with sub-25% humidity, they'll last an hour or two at most, and the daytime high will be significantly higher (I have documented a 53+ degree swing in my yard in a single day).  Meanwhile, Houston might not hit 20s even once for over a decade, but the once-in-a-century events will last for days, be accompanied by precipitation, have low daytime highs, and they'll be moist, particularly compared to here.

I am fairly confident that under the desert version of the 50/100 year event, the Bismarckia has a fighting chance.  In the coastal SE version - probably not.

Edited February 26, 2021 by ahosey01

[Meangreen94z]

1 hour ago, necturus said:

Here's the Google Maps pictures of these guys from over the years

2007:

 

2011:

 

2013:

 

2015:

 

2018:

Based on the towncar I’m guessing the plant lovers passed away or moved on to a care facility? That stinks, it looks like the neighborhood I grew up in. Nicely landscaped yards 30 years ago .... to dead grass and weeds 

[NBTX11]

Why did they cut down their queen palms between 2015 and 2018.  There were no bad freezes. 

[Meangreen94z]

18 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

Why did they cut down their queen palms between 2015 and 2018.  There were no bad freezes. 

Look at the whole yard, definitely different owners, or maybe they got too old to maintain it. All the landscaping but the Bismarckia disappeared. People who like low maintenance seem to think that means rip everything out.

[Silas_Sancona]

56 minutes ago, AnTonY said:

What is the definition of "wet" vs "dry" in terms of a winter climate? Arctic air, which is responsible for the coldest temperatures in Houston during winter, is always dry w/ very low dewpoints.

@ahosey01's thoughts are pretty on target regarding how you might differentiate a " wet vs. dry " winter climate.. and would help certain things, that might suffer frost/freeze damage at higher temperatures in say Houston.. perhaps even San Diego, survive lower temperatures here or in Tucson.  From what i have noticed, the most dangerous nights here for potential frost/freeze damage typically occur on nights it might have rained -most of the day-, then rapidly clears out after sunset, but humidity/dew points stay high.  such a scenario happens more often in CA, outside the deserts, and occurred in FL. during the 09-10 freeze, from what i recall...

Can think of numerous things that will survive extra degrees of cold if they are kept bone dry,  that are hardy,  but suffer damage/can die outright.. if subjected to the same degree of cold ( or slightly less ) in wet soil during the winter months.

Remember, even during the winter here humidity and dew points are quite low on most nights so while it can get down to say 33-35F.. maybe even 32F, if humidity is only 15-20% and the dew point stays in the same range thru the night, on such a night.. real hard to get frost, except on rooftops.. a spot or two in the calmest spot in the yard.. Back in San Jose, which is dry, but not nearly as dry as Phoenix, there are more chances you will see more extensive frost when the low only hits that 33-35F range simply because the humidity is often higher there this tie of year.. Happened a few times in FL. as well.

Again though, this is a generalization, many other factors can skew things one way or another. 

In the case of this event -in Texas- i'd suspect the duration, added moisture from ice/snow before/during, just how bleepin' cold it got, and the fact that it went from fairly typical/warm-ish winter weather to extreme cold so quickly plays into the damage being seen.. if it had been dry, ..the overall winter there cool-ish, giving things time to slowly harden off -before- suddenly being frozen, for several nights in a row..  there would be damage no doubt, but,.. suspect it wouldn't be near as extreme, or effecting even stuff that we'd consider quite hardy quite as much..  Just my thoughts however.. 


 

20 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

Yeah but compare that to something you see in the desert on a clear night (the coldest ones), and there's still a very big gap.  An event like that is certainly much drier than normal for Houston, but this particular snow was accompanied by freezing rain, cloud cover, etc. 

I picked a random downtown weather station, and the lowest humidity on the 16th - when the lows happened - was 43%.  Current humidity at my house is 22%, we average 10%-50% in the winter, with a February average of 34%.  Houston's February average, as I can find, is 75%.  Even in the dry winter air this station received during the arctic blast, it was still higher by 10% than the humidity average for our entire month of February.

Also, in the low desert in AZ and SE California - and I believe it's similar in SW FL ( @PalmatierMeg can correct me if this is wrong) - you do not typically get precipitation events on your coldest nights.  In this event, Texas received quite a bit of precipitation.  Similarly, our daytime highs have never historically remained below freezing.  I believe our all-time lowest high was like 40F or something similar.  @Silas_Sancona might know that tidbit of information.

Anyways - think about it like this.  Here where I'm at, at the bottom of a river valley in the mid-altitude (2500ft) desert, near an oasis, I'll hit low-to-mid-20s a dozen times every year, and the once-in-a-century events will take us down to 14-16F.  Those lows will almost always happen in the absence of precipitation, with sub-25% humidity, they'll last an hour or two at most, and the daytime high will be significantly higher (I have documented a 53+ degree swing in my yard in a single day).  Meanwhile, Houston might not hit 20s even once for over a decade, but the once-in-a-century events will last for days, be accompanied by precipitation, have low daytime highs, and they'll be moist, particularly compared to here.

I am fairly confident that under the desert version of the 50/100 year event, the Bismarckia has a fighting chance.  In the coastal SE version - probably not.

Thinking you're in the ball park.. and, thinking such cold days usually occur when it is cloudy/ wet, and breezy.  If the sun is out on a cold morning, it will warm up pretty quickly.. Even the high only tops out in the upper 50s-low 60s, real hard to keep daytime temps below 50 when the sun is out.  Not to say it hasn't happened though.

[PricklyPearSATC]

15 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

@ahosey01's thoughts are pretty on target regarding how you might differentiate a " wet vs. dry " winter climate.. and would help certain things, that might suffer frost/freeze damage at higher temperatures in say Houston.. perhaps even San Diego, survive lower temperatures here or in Tucson.  From what i have noticed, the most dangerous nights here for potential frost/freeze damage typically occur on nights it might have rained -most of the day-, then rapidly clears out after sunset, but humidity/dew points stay high.  such a scenario happens more often in CA, outside the deserts, and occurred in FL. during the 09-10 freeze, from what i recall...

Can think of numerous things that will survive extra degrees of cold if they are kept bone dry,  that are hardy,  but suffer damage/can die outright.. if subjected to the same degree of cold ( or slightly less ) in wet soil during the winter months.

Remember, even during the winter here humidity and dew points are quite low on most nights so while it can get down to say 33-35F.. maybe even 32F, if humidity is only 15-20% and the dew point stays in the same range thru the night, on such a night.. real hard to get frost, except on rooftops.. a spot or two in the calmest spot in the yard.. Back in San Jose, which is dry, but not nearly as dry as Phoenix, there are more chances you will see more extensive frost when the low only hits that 33-35F range simply because the humidity is often higher there this tie of year.. Happened a few times in FL. as well.

Again though, this is a generalization, many other factors can skew things one way or another. 

In the case of this event -in Texas- i'd suspect the duration, added moisture from ice/snow before/during, just how bleepin' cold it got, and the fact that it went from fairly typical/warm-ish winter weather to extreme cold so quickly plays into the damage being seen.. if it had been dry, ..the overall winter there cool-ish, giving things time to slowly harden off -before- suddenly being frozen, for several nights in a row..  there would be damage no doubt, but,.. suspect it wouldn't be near as extreme, or effecting even stuff that we'd consider quite hardy quite as much..  Just my thoughts however.. 


 

Thinking you're in the ball park.. and, thinking such cold days usually occur when it is cloudy/ wet, and breezy.  If the sun is out on a cold morning, it will warm up pretty quickly.. Even the high only tops out in the upper 50s-low 60s, real hard to keep daytime temps below 50 when the sun is out.  Not to say it hasn't happened though.

Yes, my crinums were probably damaged from all the warmth we had going into the cold. Crinums don't have a natural dormancy.  I've had them since 2007 and they have never frozen back, despite getting into the low 20s almost every winter.   They are hardy to Zone 6.

We're lucky this didn't happen this week,  because it is not unusual for Mountain Laurels to be blooming already.  Cedar Elms usually leaf out on March 1st.  Can you imagine if trees had leafed out already?  There goes the shade for the entire summer!

[PricklyPearSATC]

Livistona above
Fried Med Fan Palm:  Trachycarpus in the back

Above:  Don't know palm this is.  I guess sabal minor.  We had major pipe work done on this spot in 2017.  I also had a tiny 1 gal livistona near here....

Livistona Bud- I threw a bunch of sulfur powder on it..LOL...The spot is really hard to get around in.  The stick held up the covering. 

 

 

Sabal minor

Edited February 26, 2021 by PricklyPearSATC

[Silas_Sancona]

10 minutes ago, PricklyPearSATC said:

Yes, my crinums were probably damaged from all the warmth we had going into the cold. Crinums don't have a natural dormancy.  I've had them since 2007 and they have never frozen back, despite getting into the low 20s almost every winter.   They are hardy to Zone 6.

We're lucky this didn't happen this week,  because it is not unusual for Mountain Laurels to be blooming already.  Cedar Elms usually leaf out on March 1st.  Can you imagine if trees had leafed out already?  There goes the shade for the entire summer!

Late season frost/freeze events are the definitely the worst, but the native stuff will recover afterward.. That said, this is going to be an interesting year to monitor how things recover across Texas, regardless of being native or not.. Saw a clip of a Texas Olive in a video i watched earlier that had been completely fried. Tough tree but first time i've seen that, -anywhere..

[PricklyPearSATC]

11 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Late season frost/freeze events are the definitely the worst, but the native stuff will recover afterward.. That said, this is going to be an interesting year to monitor how things recover across Texas, regardless of being native or not.. Saw a clip of a Texas Olive in a video i watched earlier that had been completely fried. Tough tree but first time i've seen that, -anywhere..

Texas olives are not very hardy.  They are pretty much 9A plants.  I've had them freeze back on me in the lower 20s.   I have three.  I don't know if any survived.  (I covered one completely)...The other, I covered the base because it was it was surrounded by a bunch of rosemary.   If it can grow back from roots, I'll be OK with it. 
My next door neighbor has a Hong Kong Orchid.  She did not protect it. 

[Silas_Sancona]

1 minute ago, PricklyPearSATC said:

Texas olives are not very hardy.  They are pretty much 9A plants.  I've had them freeze back on me in the lower 20s.   I have three.  I don't know if any survived.  (I covered one completely)...The other, I covered the base because it was it was surrounded by a bunch of rosemary.   If it can grow back from roots, I'll be OK with it. 
My next door neighbor has a Hong Kong Orchid.  She did not protect it. 

Interesting.. Thought these could tolerate a touch more cold, say a brief dip or two down to 17-18F-ish for some reason.. ( Thinking related, but shrubbier growing Cordia parvifolia can take cold down to 15F or so )  Definitely handles drought.. Planted everywhere here, and many are neglected, but they survive ( look much better when watered/ in more humid places though )..  Would hate to loose a Hong Kong.. long shot, but maybe it will come back from the roots. 

[Collectorpalms]

Have a wild Texas Olive, try checking the one to the left of the front door of the Alamo. Mine came back in 2018. 

I also had a Hong Kong Orchid Tree because I saw one on the Riverwalk And liked it. It would come back from the roots up until 2018. But only made flowers on years it never went below 27.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[Collectorpalms]

6 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

Why did they cut down their queen palms between 2015 and 2018.  There were no bad freezes. 

You can tell the queens were defoliated after 2011, and 2018 possibly killed. However, the whole yard went from beautiful to pitiful and not because of cold. Even the large sago is gone. Probably only left the Bismarckia because of the flag pole and cost of removal. Sad!

[Collectorpalms]

10 hours ago, Xenon said:

Keep in mind ultimate bud hardiness (proven to upper teens in SE Texas) is not the same as functional use in the landscape. The leaves will burn below ~25F and it can take two years to regrow a full crown. The best looking bizzies in Houston are/were in warm "9b" areas that often go years without a hard freeze. 

There probably will be 2 Bismarckia back in central CS. Also a Queen litoralis, mules, jxs, bxpt, bxps. They were saved in my Garage. I wouldn’t buy them today, but since I saved them they will be planted or sold. May be a year until my yard can be replanted, for the razing and clearing. Since I can go 5 years without a 25F, I can probably get some crowns.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[Collectorpalms]

11 hours ago, Xerarch said:

Does that mean that S Mexicana burned and S sabal palmetto did not? Or at least not as bad?

They all are burned here where it was 4-5F, ultimately bud hardiness may decide for zone 8a/8b Austin and Dallas arborescent. I have fully mature Palmetto, Mexicana and Uresana (Glaucous). 

San Antonio to Houston did not reach the duration or ultimate low of 1983, 1989, respectively. However, generally north of these cities in 8a/8b it did...or even exceed. Dallas was coldest in over 72 years. Not to be outdone, Austin stayed at or below freezing for exactly 6 days, the longest EVER recorded. This was mostly due to the depth of snow and timing of snow in relation to when the Arctic ridge was overhead. You can see the infrared and the snow cover during the coldest. Had the heavier banding of snow been about 30 miles further south, San Antonio and Houston would have been in mid single digits. I had Thunder Snow and Thunder Sleet. 
 

Edited February 26, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[Reyes Vargas]

6 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Interesting.. Thought these could tolerate a touch more cold, say a brief dip or two down to 17-18F-ish for some reason.. ( Thinking related, but shrubbier growing Cordia parvifolia can take cold down to 15F or so )  Definitely handles drought.. Planted everywhere here, and many are neglected, but they survive ( look much better when watered/ in more humid places though )..  Would hate to loose a Hong Kong.. long shot, but maybe it will come back from the roots. 

All the Texas wild olives in the RGV are completely fried which I didn't think would happen.  I have never seen them damadged by cold like this.  My wild olive was completely defoliated by hurricane Hannah.  I think it was a combination of too much water and just being jostled by the wind.  It was just staring to recover when we got hit by this arctic cold.  We'll see if it recovers.

[Collectorpalms]

8 hours ago, Meangreen94z said:

Look at the whole yard, definitely different owners, or maybe they got too old to maintain it. All the landscaping but the Bismarckia disappeared. People who like low maintenance seem to think that means rip everything out.

I have deducted that the Bismarckia on the right is on the property Line of house on right.  I also think that both houses became owned by the same owner possibly. Both yards take a dramatic shift to rental. The vinca planted around the base of the right one are also planted in flowerbed of house on right. 
Most importantly it looks like this is also an example of a $5 hole and a $50 hole. The one on right is in a raised flower bed for most of the years. The left one was just stuck in a $5 hole. Neighbor right was caught outside tending to lawn. 
 

I have two Bismarckia ready to go into the ground. If I do plant them, I won’t do matchy- matchy since it seems they are rather picky.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[PalmatierMeg]

@ahosey01, you are correct. Here in SWFL winters and springs are our dry season. It almost never rains below 50F. The only time it did in my memory was one day in Jan. 2010

[Xerarch]

1 hour ago, Reyes Vargas said:

All the Texas wild olives in the RGV are completely fried which I didn't think would happen.  I have never seen them damadged by cold like this.  My wild olive was completely defoliated by hurricane Hannah.  I think it was a combination of too much water and just being jostled by the wind.  It was just staring to recover when we got hit by this arctic cold.  We'll see if it recovers.

I'm surprised and sad to hear that, I didn't think it got cold enough to damage the native Cordia, I suppose they will recover though

[Fusca]

8 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Interesting.. Thought these could tolerate a touch more cold, say a brief dip or two down to 17-18F-ish for some reason.. ( Thinking related, but shrubbier growing Cordia parvifolia can take cold down to 15F or so )  Definitely handles drought.. Planted everywhere here, and many are neglected, but they survive ( look much better when watered/ in more humid places though )..  Would hate to loose a Hong Kong.. long shot, but maybe it will come back from the roots. 

It will be interesting to see how the Cordia boissieri handle this freeze.  I've had a similar experience with @PricklyPearSATC.  I bought mine as a 5-gal in October, 2017 which was only in the ground 3 months before it hit 20° which defoliated it.  Came back strong and grew to a height of around 10' since then and has been pruned to shape.  Not sure if it was just due to the small size and lack of establishment that knocked it back the first time or if that's a good gauge for it.  I'd think it could certainly survive a brief dip down to 17° but would defoliate.  9° might be asking too much though.

[Collectorpalms]

15 hours ago, Keys6505 said:

Anyone use Southern Ag Liquid Copper Fungicide to treat after spear pull?  If so at what concentration?

From reading the back:  Fungicide can safely be used on ornamental plants
Apply as a thorough coverage spray using 2 tsps. of Liquid Copper Fungicide per gallon of water. Begin application at first sign of disease and repeat at 7-14 day intervals as needed.
Use shorter interval during periods of frequent rains or when severe disease conditions persist. Can be Toxic so don’t over due it.

make sure water has a ph above 7. 

 

Edited February 26, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[PricklyPearSATC]

55 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

From reading the back:  Fungicide can safely be used on ornamental plants
Apply as a thorough coverage spray using 2 tsps. of Liquid Copper Fungicide per gallon of water. Begin application at first sign of disease and repeat at 7-14 day intervals as needed.
Use shorter interval during periods of frequent rains or when severe disease conditions persist. Can be Toxic so don’t over due it.

make sure water has a ph above 7. 

 

I would recommend apply a fungicide before any signs. 

[Collectorpalms]

22 minutes ago, PricklyPearSATC said:

I would recommend apply a fungicide before any signs. 

Fungal and bug buffet coming now! Cloudy and rainy. Not hot sunny and dry. For here March 10-15 normally the soil temperatures warm into the mid-60s where you start seeing new growth, on some palm like washintonia sp. Sabals around 70F soil. You can use nitrate form of nitrogen as a calcium nitrate drench at lower soil temperatures for plants.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[jwitt]

12 hours ago, ahosey01 said:

Yeah but compare that to something you see in the desert on a clear night (the coldest ones), and there's still a very big gap.  An event like that is certainly much drier than normal for Houston, but this particular snow was accompanied by freezing rain, cloud cover, etc. 

I picked a random downtown weather station, and the lowest humidity on the 16th - when the lows happened - was 43%.  Current humidity at my house is 22%, we average 10%-50% in the winter, with a February average of 34%.  Houston's February average, as I can find, is 75%.  Even in the dry winter air this station received during the arctic blast, it was still higher by 10% than the humidity average for our entire month of February.

Also, in the low desert in AZ and SE California - and I believe it's similar in SW FL ( @PalmatierMeg can correct me if this is wrong) - you do not typically get precipitation events on your coldest nights.  In this event, Texas received quite a bit of precipitation.  Similarly, our daytime highs have never historically remained below freezing.  I believe our all-time lowest high was like 40F or something similar.  @Silas_Sancona might know that tidbit of information.

Anyways - think about it like this.  Here where I'm at, at the bottom of a river valley in the mid-altitude (2500ft) desert, near an oasis, I'll hit low-to-mid-20s a dozen times every year, and the once-in-a-century events will take us down to 14-16F.  Those lows will almost always happen in the absence of precipitation, with sub-25% humidity, they'll last an hour or two at most, and the daytime high will be significantly higher (I have documented a 53+ degree swing in my yard in a single day).  Meanwhile, Houston might not hit 20s even once for over a decade, but the once-in-a-century events will last for days, be accompanied by precipitation, have low daytime highs, and they'll be moist, particularly compared to here.

I am fairly confident that under the desert version of the 50/100 year event, the Bismarckia has a fighting chance.  In the coastal SE version - probably not.

All Arctic events here in this desert are preceded by rain(usually), snow, ice , and wind. It then clears and the coldest night happens. Just like Texas just saw. The difference being the extended freeze. We(even in a much colder climate) do not have highs below freezing day after day. 

Using relative humidity to measure moisture in cold air is inaccurate.  Air below 40f cannot hold much moisture. Hence the term relative. All air 35f and less is dry and the dew point can never be above the air temperature.  

So 32f air with a dew point of 32f at 100% relative humidity is still dry and only holds a fraction of the moisture of say 45f air at 100%rh.

I think a lot of the difference ultimately resides in the moisture dry off after the event. So when an extended event happens, that cold air can not absorb moisture, as opposed to a sunny 55f day. Elevation also exaggerates this.

 

Ultimately what I am trying to convey is this:

A cubic foot of

32f air can hold 10 drops of water

85f air can hold a half gallon(just a example-not accurate)

Dewpoint is the true measure of moisture in air, not e.g..

 

Edited February 26, 2021 by jwitt