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Palmageddon Aftermath Photo Thread


ahosey01

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2 hours ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

I'm not sure, I know ash trees got hit pretty hard though. Driving around, pretty much every block you will see non-palm deaths. TONS of dead hedge shrubs in commercial areas. Arborists think a good portion of these deciduous trees are dead in Austin. 

Weird, the only oak species growing here that should have any trouble is Quercus virginiana, every other species should be okay, especially if they were dormant at the time.

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37 minutes ago, amh said:

Weird, the only oak species growing here that should have any trouble is Quercus virginiana, every other species should be okay, especially if they were dormant at the time.

Exactly my thinking.  Had to be a combination of factors and not just ice and cold temperatures.  Freeze plus drought stress and/or disease plus premature out-of-dormancy.  If it were just freeze damage there wouldn't be any oaks living in Oklahoma or Kansas.  My only observations of bare oaks looking dead around here looked barely surviving before the freeze.

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Jon Sunder

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5 minutes ago, Fusca said:

Exactly my thinking.  Had to be a combination of factors and not just ice and cold temperatures.  Freeze plus drought stress and/or disease plus premature out-of-dormancy.  If it were just freeze damage there wouldn't be any oaks living in Oklahoma or Kansas.  My only observations of bare oaks looking dead around here looked barely surviving before the freeze.

Probably stress because the pictures do not look like oak wilt.

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5 minutes ago, amh said:

Probably stress because the pictures do not look like oak wilt.

Yes, we were in "severe drought" conditions in February and "exceptional drought" conditions in early April before all the nice rain we got the past two months.  We're out of the drought conditions now thankfully!

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Jon Sunder

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46 minutes ago, Fusca said:

Yes, we were in "severe drought" conditions in February and "exceptional drought" conditions in early April before all the nice rain we got the past two months.  We're out of the drought conditions now thankfully!

Yes, but it may not rain again until October. Last year my area had just over 20 inches and this year, just April trough the first week of June had over 30 inches, I'm hoping this summer wont be too dry.

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19 hours ago, TonyDFW said:

Palms pushing green growth after 3F in Dallas. No protection

june 2021

F38C6613-BE27-4A64-BCEC-F14776CBB7E1.jpeg

224E0C40-B2A7-4AB5-981F-92FA255C0A42.jpeg

 

 

Where are these filiferas located at? These are beautiful specimens, someone needs to collect seeds from it and start mass planting in the area 

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Found this in another thread but here are a few thin trunked hybrids in downtown austin recovering. I haven’t spent any time down there but I’m certain there are plenty more think trucked survivors which were protected by wind 

E85A45CB-0584-41CE-B034-F6804B07F7B8.png

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Sad day... the robustas outside taco cabana off research blvd were all chopped down. But the filiferas are all trimmed up and look healthy. Hopefully they will be taller than the freeway someday

F287A2D2-194F-4990-9FC9-A5C94229B15E.jpeg

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Didn't take any palmy pics but the Houston Heights seems to be recovering well and the fish tacos and cantaloupe juice are just as wonderful as ever. 

IMG_20210624_153648.jpg

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I passed by a queen palm pushing a green leaf in the Katy Area today. Couldn't believe my eyes and had to make a u-turn to do a double take. This is several blocks north of I-10 so not the "warmest spot" in Katy; something like 90% of "pure" robusta in the surrounding area are dead. It was 11-12F here! Nearby there are a few other queens that haven't collapsed yet and even fewer that seem to be sending out an inflorescence...time will tell? 

It's growing with at an RV park/storage area (go figure)!

Streetview dates it to 2015: https://www.google.com/maps/@29.814829,-95.7247567,3a,28.3y,356.33h,88.91t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s2s1qv6TS7VdDZxUbUmllHA!2e0!5s20150601T000000!7i13312!8i6656

Excuse the lighting 

201482554_1800453033459060_8712007434476725513_n.thumb.jpg.ca51cc5cf9cba32a960dd47f447a7f6c.jpg

 

 

 

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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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No photo but I saw a queen palm recovering in New Braunfels the other day.  9F.  I will try to get a picture.

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1 hour ago, NBTX11 said:

No photo but I saw a queen palm recovering in New Braunfels the other day.  9F.  I will try to get a picture.

No shot that thing lives more than another year or two right? I know they can be sneaky hardy but I keep hearing on this forum how they will develop trunk rot after wet cold below 20 but maybe the drought we were in headed into the storm helped 

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17 minutes ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

No shot that thing lives more than another year or two right? I know they can be sneaky hardy but I keep hearing on this forum how they will develop trunk rot after wet cold below 20 but maybe the drought we were in headed into the storm helped 

I'll try get a photo this weekend, if I remember, and you can be the judge.  

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On 6/25/2021 at 5:10 AM, DreaminAboutPalms said:

No shot that thing lives more than another year or two right? I know they can be sneaky hardy but I keep hearing on this forum how they will develop trunk rot after wet cold below 20 but maybe the drought we were in headed into the storm helped 

I've got queens here at 51N. Last winter was abnormally cold, with two nights that went down to 20F and some days that didn't get above 30F. On top of that, the spring just gone was also the coldest on record too. Still my queens are surviving and pushing out new growth, despite the terrible weather during the past 6 months being throughly against them. Our summer is also yet to get properly going this year. We just had the coldest summer solstice on record and it looks like I'm not getting above 20C / 68F here today. Weather-wise, the past 6 months have been the worst I have ever seen in my lifetime. 

They got snowed on pretty bad...

thumbnail_image3-5.thumb.jpg.7f10cd31c4d32d746e306ccb767373c5.jpg

 

Here they are a few days ago, looking a bit ragged...

thumbnail_image1-34.thumb.jpg.073fab57830af960d4fb08d934255efd.jpg

 

New frond coming out...

thumbnail_image2-18.thumb.jpg.c821d5f4b6f8b01bcae253363df30710.jpg

 

@DreaminAboutPalms No signs of any rot on these, after the colder than average winter and record cold spring. They are growing again here. Queens are definitely hardier than people realise. Hopefully July - September will be warm-hot and pretty sunny. I need them to put out quite a bit of growth to replace the winter/spring damage.

There is record breaking heat in Eastern Europe, Russia, Siberia etc meaning we are unusually cool here in western Europe right now. We need the balance to swing in our favour, which it will eventually. The same way that the record breaking heat in the west of North America is causing abnormally cool temps in the east of America. Same principle. 

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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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I did not have a chance to take a picture however at "the palm" apartments on 2500 Steck avenue in North Shoal Creek in Austin, they have multiple healthy looking filiferas, one is about 40 feet tall with a FULL crown. and another 20 footer with 4 or 5 fronds and a few other ones covered up by trees. If you look up the apartments you can see the 20 footer as a bush. Down the road there are other thick filiferas that have only pushed out 2 fronds. 

Filiferas all recovered in Austin, but there is a HUGE difference between individual specimens. Some have full crowns while others have only 3 partially formed fronds, all within a mile radius. These apartments were built in 1966 so these have been around a while 

I am going to start mapping out the best specimens in the city for future seed collection. Any palm tree that has a full crown after 7 days in a row where high was 32 or less, consecutive nights of 15,8,5 and 5 days in a row with an inch of snow on the ground clearly has superior genetics 

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Drove by a neimann Marcus to check out the dactylfera recovery progress and was shocked to see that they appear to be regressing. A few weeks ago all 3 were pushing green now just 1 is. Anyone have any idea what happened or seen something similar?

7F559690-2A8F-4776-9F4B-F552E86B0103.jpeg

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Thick washie outside p terry’s Off mopac up by Parmer. No visible growth a week ago. 

F98C119C-9669-4767-BE29-2FAFE99577DB.jpeg

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5 hours ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

Drove by a neimann Marcus to check out the dactylfera recovery progress and was shocked to see that they appear to be regressing. A few weeks ago all 3 were pushing green now just 1 is. Anyone have any idea what happened or seen something similar?

7F559690-2A8F-4776-9F4B-F552E86B0103.jpeg

Those palms are dead, bro. If they’re going into decline now, there’s no way they’ll get healthy by next winter. They need to be actively be putting out healthy fronds fast now. It’s almost July. 
 

2 months ago, I thought we were going to have a 100 percent CIDP recovery. I’ve noticed a small handful of weak specimens go into decline. They won’t make it. The survival rate is still really high over 90 percent, but a couple started to recover and then died. They looked weak to begin with. 

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3 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

Those palms are dead, bro. If they’re going into decline now, there’s no way they’ll get healthy by next winter. They need to be actively be putting out healthy fronds fast now. It’s almost July. 
 

2 months ago, I thought we were going to have a 100 percent CIDP recovery. I’ve noticed a small handful of weak specimens go into decline. They won’t make it. The survival rate is still really high over 90 percent, but a couple started to recover and then died. They looked weak to begin with. 

These are the dates at the fairmont. Half are pushing green but not very fast so these aren’t in the clear yet. Either way if we don’t have a mild winter to make up for this year it’s going to kill a lot of palms that barely survived

F69FEA90-E200-4503-B19D-C105A7329A26.png

4C80F2F6-9A97-4474-B8CB-E27C92F9C331.png

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On 6/27/2021 at 10:23 AM, UK_Palms said:

No signs of any rot on these, after the colder than average winter and record cold spring.

In my neighborhood (League City TX) I know of at least 7 queens that were cut down last summer (2020) due to rotting trunks that were a result of damage caused by 19 degrees or so in the winter of 2018.  2 more where the crowns just snapped off in a wind storm on an otherwise healthy looking tree.  There were another handful that had trunks that showed damage and it was just a matter of time before they were done too.  None of those damaged ones recovered after this years freeze.  I wish I had taken pics, some of them just had huge chunks missing from the sides.  It was almost like severe termite damage but with no termites.

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2 hours ago, Keys6505 said:

In my neighborhood (League City TX) I know of at least 7 queens that were cut down last summer (2020) due to rotting trunks that were a result of damage caused by 19 degrees or so in the winter of 2018.  2 more where the crowns just snapped off in a wind storm on an otherwise healthy looking tree.  There were another handful that had trunks that showed damage and it was just a matter of time before they were done too.  None of those damaged ones recovered after this years freeze.  I wish I had taken pics, some of them just had huge chunks missing from the sides.  It was almost like severe termite damage but with no termites.

I think that this will happen with a good portion of those that "survived". If we see temperatures in the teens again in next few years then they are all done for.

I have yet to ever hear about one that endured wet cold for more than a day or two and lived in the long term. They'll miraculously push out new fronds but then 2 years later and its dead.

Edited by DreaminAboutPalms
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On 6/29/2021 at 1:02 PM, DreaminAboutPalms said:

Drove by a neimann Marcus to check out the dactylfera recovery progress and was shocked to see that they appear to be regressing. A few weeks ago all 3 were pushing green now just 1 is. Anyone have any idea what happened or seen something similar?

7F559690-2A8F-4776-9F4B-F552E86B0103.jpeg

Unfortunately my 35FT  Phoenix sylvestris had green pushing too at the beginning on May. It’s now brown. 
Also had 4 mostly Washingtonia Filifera green fronds, eventually brown out.

not sure if the abundant rain here was a factor, but I think it may have been since these are from arid climates. And it’s been anything but arid here. Very tropical high humidity and rain this year. 

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Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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Just now, Collectorpalms said:

Unfortunately my 35FT  Phoenix sylvestris had green pushing too at the beginning on May. It’s now brown. 
Also had 4 mostly Washingtonia Filifera green fronds, eventually brown out.

not sure if the abundant rain here was a factor, but I think it may have been since these are from arid climates. And it’s been anything but arid here. Very tropical high humidity and rain this year. 

Here in Austin we are back in full on drought mode. May was cool and rained everyday and that doesn't help the medjools or the filiferas. But ever since start of June it has been sunny everyday basically; phoenix dactylfera from what I've seen are all moving extremely slow or moving backwards. I was surprised though to see one pushing growth at that apartment complex that you can see from the 35 north of Austin. Still lots of washingtonia just starting to push growth as well. From what I've seen from other washies that recovered quicker is that growth speeds up a ton once they get a few fronds out. 

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Found another queen palm recovering in Houston (Myerland). I drive past this one regularly and only just noticed the new growth. It wasn't protected, but it grows on the south side of a building. This one always held a large crown and was one of the nicest in the area - it would be a good candidate for collecting seed if it survives the next winter. Several other nice ones in the area that had extremely thick trunks are all dead unfortunately.

PXL_20210703_183912413.jpg

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Not sure if y'all have heard this but apparently the so called silver queens are ones that have just been selectively bred for increased cold hardiness.

I think that if queens are actually bred for cold hardiness that they can potentially survive better in Texas conditions long term.

 

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18 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

Very tropical high humidity and rain this year. 

Yes, very true. We're in July and I haven't even turned on the sprinklers yet this year. I have to say my Filifera and Filibusta look better than ever (the robusta is still putting out dwarf growth).

Just got back from Austin and they should have gotten some rain today (we surely got our share today). Visited some nurseries and saw Filifera and Windmills for sale. 
:) 

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What is the ultimate recovery and survival rate looking like in the Houston area for the following palms/tropical planta? 1) Pure robusta or thin-trunked hybrids, 2) CIDP, 3) "Medjool" dates, 4) Queens, 5) Oleander, 6) Sagos, 7) Citrus above the graft (not a fan of Citrange or trifoliate orange)

In the following areas: 1) central Houston, 2) Katy, 3) Sugar Land, 4) Clear Lake, 5) Galveston

Are we still getting new recoveries this late in the season?

Edited by SLTX21
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11 hours ago, SLTX21 said:

What is the ultimate recovery and survival rate looking like in the Houston area for the following palms/tropical planta? 1) Pure robusta or thin-trunked hybrids, 2) CIDP, 3) "Medjool" dates, 4) Queens, 5) Oleander, 6) Sagos, 7) Citrus above the graft (not a fan of Citrange or trifoliate orange)

In the following areas: 1) central Houston, 2) Katy, 3) Sugar Land, 4) Clear Lake, 5) Galveston

Are we still getting new recoveries this late in the season?

Updated map with some corrections:

lalalal.jpg.e7dd8a6f76b8a0a94a808655e3347d33.jpg

 

Survival is 60-70% on the I-45 corridor but jumps to 80-90% as soon as you get close to the bay at NASA/east League City/Clear Lake, etc. I didn't pay too much attention to robusta in Galveston, but recovery there should likewise be high if you exclude unhealthy/old/stressed palms (there are a lot of them on the island). 

 

2) established CIDP for the most part all survived across the greater Houston Area 

3) Date palms more or less made it across the wider area as well, 80-90% survival 

4) Queens for the most part are dead away from the coast. There is some recovery happening inside 610-ish (maybe 10%?) and there are a few queens pushing decent growth as far west as I-10/BW 8. 10-20% of queens are doing something in Clear Lake and maybe as high as 30% along the immediate southern shoreline of Galveston Bay. 40-50% of queens are showing growth on Tiki Island and the west end of Galveston (I didn't make it to the east end of Galveston, which usually runs colder). I'm unsure as to how viable they are long-term due to trunk damage. 

5) Oleander is highly dependent on genetics. I saw some near town that only had very minor tip damage after the freeze though most did freeze to the ground. All of the oleanders that line the Houston freeway system are coming back from the ground/base vigorously. Some newer (more tender) hybrids I observed on the south shore of Galveston Bay were nearly undamaged and even flowering back in May. Varying degrees of freeze-back near the coast and in Galveston but I saw less "death to the ground". 

6) Sagos are pretty much all alive if they were in decent condition before the freeze. Vast majority of them already look like nothing ever happened (what freeze?). 

7) Grafted citrus for the most part died if not banked/protected. Some older trees are coming back from above the graft. Seed grown citrus are making a vigorous comeback. I don't know how the immediate coast and Galveston fared. 

 

Edited by Xenon
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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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On 7/6/2021 at 7:45 AM, Xenon said:

Updated map with some corrections:

lalalal.jpg.e7dd8a6f76b8a0a94a808655e3347d33.jpg

 

Survival is 60-70% on the I-45 corridor but jumps to 80-90% as soon as you get close to the bay at NASA/east League City/Clear Lake, etc. I didn't pay too much attention to robusta in Galveston, but recovery there should likewise be high if you exclude unhealthy/old/stressed palms (there are a lot of them on the island). 

 

2) established CIDP for the most part all survived across the greater Houston Area 

3) Date palms more or less made it across the wider area as well, 80-90% survival 

4) Queens for the most part are dead away from the coast. There is some recovery happening inside 610-ish (maybe 10%?) and there are a few queens pushing decent growth as far west as I-10/BW 8. 10-20% of queens are doing something in Clear Lake and maybe as high as 30% along the immediate southern shoreline of Galveston Bay. 40-50% of queens are showing growth on Tiki Island and the west end of Galveston (I didn't make it to the east end of Galveston, which usually runs colder). I'm unsure as to how viable they are long-term due to trunk damage. 

5) Oleander is highly dependent on genetics. I saw some near town that only had very minor tip damage after the freeze though most did freeze to the ground. All of the oleanders that line the Houston freeway system are coming back from the ground/base vigorously. Some newer (more tender) hybrids I observed on the south shore of Galveston Bay were nearly undamaged and even flowering back in May. Varying degrees of freeze-back near the coast and in Galveston but I saw less "death to the ground". 

6) Sagos are pretty much all alive if they were in decent condition before the freeze. Vast majority of them already look like nothing ever happened (what freeze?). 

7) Grafted citrus for the most part died if not banked/protected. Some older trees are coming back from above the graft. Seed grown citrus are making a vigorous comeback. I don't know how the immediate coast and Galveston fared. 

 

Very informative. Now that the ultimate "litmus test' has been performed, let's hope it will be many years before something of this magnitude is experienced again in this region.

If it looks alive and healthy (even the Queens) by end of summer, it should be good to go.

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19 minutes ago, Sabal_Louisiana said:

Very informative. Now that the ultimate "litmus test' has been performed, let's hope it will be many years before something of this magnitude is experienced again in this region.

If it looks alive and healthy (even the Queens) by end of summer, it should be good to go.

I'd still plant for a 2010 type freeze rather than last winter which would really limit the landscape choices here haha. This freeze was 4-5F colder (12-15F) than the next coldest freeze (17-20F) experienced in the last 30 years. At the coast, the difference was as much as 6-8F which was catastrophic. To put it in perspective, Houston IAH averages an annual avg minimum of 26F and Houston Hobby averages 28F for the last 30 years even with the inclusion of last winter so it was quite the extreme departure. 

Edited by Xenon

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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Yesterday I saw the big row of Japanese blueberry trees by the Asia Society building in the Museum District are coming back nicely. I think they already trimmed a lot of large branches. Elsewhere in town survival seems mixed and definitely related to pre-freeze size.

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Here is the difference between "pure" robusta and wannabe robusta hybrid 

This is in a cold spot in WSW Houston, only about 1 in 5 of the robustas in this shopping center are pushing green. And they are slowww. There are some passable robusta nearby (with better growing conditions than parking lot island) which are on their 3rd or 4th leaf but still nothing like the vigorous hybrids 

20210711_202815.thumb.jpg.df7f8eab9197f3eb5569e14df09ec3a5.jpg

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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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