Coldest Temperatures since the Arctic Outbreak of December 1989

[EastCanadaTropicals]

On 2/19/2021 at 1:43 PM, Teegurr said:

Butias are looking bad.

 

Might have some hardy strains if they survive.

[GoatLockerGuns]

1 minute ago, Swolte said:

Were spears completely brown on the 'ass' rating?

Yes...and soft.  The "not that bad" rating was for spears that still had some stiffness and were still green.

[Teegurr]

5 hours ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Might have some hardy strains if they survive.

I saw a trachy that looked really good in my neighborhood.

[NBTX11]

6 hours ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Yes...and soft.  The "not that bad" rating was for spears that still had some stiffness and were still green.

They still might not be dead.  I have seen some extremely dead looking palms come back from the dead on multiple occasions.

If the spear isn't moving by the 4th of July, you can probably give up on it.

[JohnAndSancho]

6 hours ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

If you haven't already guessed my grading scale, it goes: Looks like total ass (90% sure its going to die), Looks like ass (80% sure its going to die), Looks bad (60% sure it going to die), looks not that bad (50% it might die - coin toss), Looks alright (30% it might die), Looks not that good (10% it might die), Looks good (its going to live), Looks awesome (50% sure its going to thrive), Looks totally awesome (90% sure its going to thrive).  

Science 

[GregVirginia7]

 Anything on Sabal Brazorias? I think they’re a Texas native...just wondering as replacement choices are made...I chose one for my region because it’s a trunking palm a slow one but one just the same. From what I gather it’s a hybrid of the Sabal palmetto and the Sabal minor. Both cold hardy champs...

[GoatLockerGuns]

13 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

They still might not be dead.

Yep...I'd say they have a 50/50 chance.

[GoatLockerGuns]

SITREP #2: Warm day today.  If it wasn't for the horticultural devastation all around, you would have never guessed an arctic blast blew through here last week.  Good news and bad news to report:

Uncovered Palms:

UPDATE: Washingtonia sps. with less than 1 foot of trunk: Looks like total ass. Spear pull today.  All palm fronds burnt.

NO CHANGE: Washingtonia sps. with 1 to 2 foot of trunk: Looks like ass.

NO CHANGE: Washingtonia sps. with 3 foot + of trunk: Looks bad.

NO CHANGE: Sabal sps. with less than 1 foot of trunk: Looks like ass.

NO CHANGE: Phoenix dactylifera with less than 1 foot of trunk: Looks like total ass.

Covered Palms:

DOWNGRADE: Washingtonia sps. with less than 1 foot of trunk: Looks like total ass.  Spear pull today.  Most palm fronds burnt.

UPDATE: Washingtonia sps. with 1 foot + of trunk: Looks not that bad.  Spear still stiff and green.  Some palm fronds burnt.

UPGRADE: Nannorrhops ritchiana with no trunk: Looks not that good.  Spear still stiff and green.  Palm fronds still green.

UPGRADE: Sabal minor with no trunk: Looks good.  Spear still stiff and green.  Palm fronds still green.  Currently showing no signs of cold damage.

UPDATE: Sabal palmetto with less than 1 foot of trunk: Looks not that bad.  Spear still stiff and green.  Some palm fronds show slight burn.

DOWNGRADE: Sabal causiarum with less than 1 foot of trunk: Looks like ass.  Spear still stiff and green.  Most palm fronds burnt.

UPDATE: Brahea armata with less than 1 foot of trunk: Looks bad.  Spear still stiff and silver.  Many palm fronds burnt.

UPDATE: Brahea sp. "Super Silver" with less than 1 foot of trunk: Looks like total ass.  Spear pull today.  All palm fronds burnt.

DOWNGRADE: Chamaerops humilis with 1 foot + of trunk: Looks like total ass.  Spear pull today (5 spears).  Most palm fronds burnt.  Some palm fronds came out with the spear pull too.

DOWNGRADE: Livistona chinensis with no trunk: Looks like total ass.  No spear for spear pull test.

UPGRADE: Trachycarpus fortunei with 1 foot + of trunk: Looks not that good.  No spear pull.  Spear still stiff and green.  Palm fronds still mostly green.

UPGRADE: Serenoa repens with no trunk: Looks not that good.  No spear pull.  Spear still stiff and green.  Palm fronds still mostly green.

NO CHANGE: Trithrinax brasiliensis with no trunk: Looks like total ass.

DOWNGRADE: Phoenix dactylifera with less than 1 foot of trunk: Looks like total ass.  Spear pull today (3 spears).  All palm fronds burnt. 

[Teegurr]

Big CIDP in the neighborhood doesn't look bad.

 

[NBTX11]

30 minutes ago, Teegurr said:

Big CIDP in the neighborhood doesn't look bad.

 

It will grow out of that, but it will take almost 2 years to recover it’s crown. Hope for a mild winter next year. 

[Collectorpalms]

On 2/21/2021 at 5:33 PM, Teegurr said:

Big CIDP in the neighborhood doesn't look bad.

 

Carnage. Mine have never looked that bad and even look worse than those due to thick ice.

[amh]

Had some local readings of -7F, I hope these were malfunctioning equipment.

[NBTX11]

22 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

Carnage. Mine have never looked that bad and even look worse than those due to thick ice.

Canary island dates grow out of what appears to be carnage. Hence all the dates around San Antonio that survived 6 degrees in 1989. 

[buffy]

My buddy north of town saw -9F on his thermometer.

[Xerarch]

1 hour ago, amh said:

Had some local readings of -7F, I hope these were malfunctioning equipment.

Wow! Hope there was some malfunctioning equipment but my experience with thermometers is that it's a lot easier to get an inaccurate reading that is high than an inaccurate reading that is too low,  maybe that station was just in a cold sink.

[Collectorpalms]

Yeah some Canaries lived badly damage all over coastal Texas, only to have their Weakened heads popped off in a hurricane. 
They were not the quality to be used as landscape plants after that. 
 

All Washingtonia sp Filifera to Robusta look dead. Mediterranean and pindos look dead. Palmetto that looked ok, now look freeze dried.

Only palms that look alive are needles, Sabal minor, Sabal Louisiana. 
 

Main stems of my largest Crape Myrtle green. Southern live oak and Mexican oak look brown. Texas Mountain laurel and Yucca Rostrata look good.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[amh]

24 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

Wow! Hope there was some malfunctioning equipment but my experience with thermometers is that it's a lot easier to get an inaccurate reading that is high than an inaccurate reading that is too low,  maybe that station was just in a cold sink.

I'm unfortunately in a cold sink myself; all I know for sure is that 4F was the highest possible low.

[Collectorpalms]

43 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

Yeah some Canaries lived badly damage all over coastal Texas, only to have their Weakened heads popped off in a hurricane. 
They were not the quality to be used as landscape plants after that. 
 

All Washingtonia sp Filifera to Robusta look dead. Mediterranean and pindos look dead. Palmetto that looked ok, now look freeze dried.

Only palms that look alive are needles, Sabal minor, Sabal Louisiana. 
 

Main stems of my largest Crape Myrtle green. Southern live oak and Mexican oak look brown. Texas Mountain laurel and Yucca Rostrata look good.

Indian hawthorn Bush. Common landscape bush is brown.
 

Cold hardy Cactus collection. Mush. 
 

Sabal Mexicana looks in limbo. This one might make it along with Palmetto. I am going to be hopeful I’ll have a yard left of Sabals! I may have two 35 plus year old trees make it plus their volunteer babies.
 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[Teegurr]

Does anyone think we've had our last frost in Southeast Texas this winter? Temps looking good for the next ten days.

[amh]

7 minutes ago, Teegurr said:

Does anyone think we've had our last frost in Southeast Texas this winter? Temps looking good for the next ten days.

Likely the end of March for your area.

[Xenon]

See quite a few crispy Sabal mexicana in town in College Station...and I thought Houston was cold 

[Collectorpalms]

1 hour ago, Teegurr said:

Does anyone think we've had our last frost in Southeast Texas this winter? Temps looking good for the next ten days.

Yes, looks ok, still a lot of cold air over Canada. Don’t count out a late frost. Here is data since 1901. 

[Teegurr]

1 hour ago, amh said:

Likely the end of March for your area.

Why do you say so? Is it because this year we had a cold winter? Usually it's late Feb-early March, but I won't rule out late March.

[amh]

21 minutes ago, Teegurr said:

Why do you say so? Is it because this year we had a cold winter? Usually it's late Feb-early March, but I won't rule out late March.

No, its just most of Texas has a last frost date that is between the second and last week of March.

It appears college station may be earlier, but ask locals before planting anything that cant handle a freeze.

Edited February 25, 2021 by amh

[amh]

4 minutes ago, amh said:

No, its just most of Texas has a last frost date that is between the second and last week of March.

It appears college station may be earlier, but ask locals before planting anything that cant handle a freeze.

Excluding coastal areas.

[Meangreen94z]

33 minutes ago, Teegurr said:

Why do you say so? Is it because this year we had a cold winter? Usually it's late Feb-early March, but I won't rule out late March.

Now that you asked that question it’s guaranteed to happen

[Teegurr]

9 minutes ago, amh said:

Excluding coastal areas.

Oh, I'm just waiting to see when I can plant my Bismarckia.

[Sabal_Louisiana]

Teegurr,

the CFSv2 weekly Climate forecasts, which NOAA's CPC (Climate Prediction Center) uses as a determination for its 6-10 and 8-14 Day Outlooks and beyond, show jacked up temp anomalies thru most all of March for this entire region .  After the great Arctic Purge and a return to a strong (AKA normalized) polar vortex,  I'm not at all surprised. It's getting too late in the season, you would think, for the frigid air to reload so quickly anyway.

That said, I don't trust it - To be on the safe side, wait until after Easter. If you're a bit daring, go for it.

[amh]

28 minutes ago, Teegurr said:

Oh, I'm just waiting to see when I can plant my Bismarckia.

Its up to you, but I'm always cautious.

12 minutes ago, Sabal_Louisiana said:

Teegurr,

the CFSv2 weekly Climate forecasts, which NOAA's CPC (Climate Prediction Center) uses as a determination for its 6-10 and 8-14 Day Outlooks and beyond, show jacked up temp anomalies thru most all of March for this entire region .  After the great Arctic Purge and a return to a strong (AKA normalized) polar vortex,  I'm not at all surprised. It's getting too late in the season, you would think, for the frigid air to reload so quickly anyway.

That said, I don't trust it - To be on the safe side, wait until after Easter. If you're a bit daring, go for it.

Every time I trust the predictions and plant a garden before April, its a guaranteed 20F freeze a week later.

Edited February 25, 2021 by amh

[Meangreen94z]

I saw this post from John a month ago asking the same question, and hoped at the time he hadn’t jinxed himself. I know superstition is all in your head, but sometimes it seems otherwise. 
 

Alan_tampa nailed it, 4th post down . Reality is it was just a strange coincidence. 

[Swolte]

I took a bit of detour today through a neighborhood I had to pick something up (College station, Castle gate, 4F low. Several days below freezing with ice and snow, etc...).

Of the evergreens I recall:

Sabals - A bit battered but most look OK
Sabal Minor - OK
Trachys - A bit battered on leaves but mostly good. 
W. Robusta - They look terrible and there's LOTS of them
Medi's - All terrible

Didn't see any butia or phoenix on this trip but I reckon they're not looking too good...

Cycads all look terrible (predictably so).
Live oaks are browning
Pittosporum also browning


 

[Collectorpalms]

19 minutes ago, Swolte said:

I took a bit of detour today through a neighborhood I had to pick something up (College station, Castle gate, 4F low. Several days below freezing with ice and snow, etc...).

Of the evergreens I recall:

Sabals - A bit battered but most look OK
Sabal Minor - OK
Trachys - A bit battered on leaves but mostly good. 
W. Robusta - They look terrible and there's LOTS of them
Medi's - All terrible

Didn't see any butia or phoenix on this trip but I reckon they're not looking too good...

Cycads all look terrible (predictably so).
Live oaks are browning
Pittosporum also browning


 

I think this explains why I saw no 80s survivors of Meds. My green ones are toast. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[NBTX11]

15 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

I think this explains why I saw no 80s survivors of Meds. My green ones are toast. 
Still hoping for Sabal Palmetto, Mexicana and Uresana by miracle. My soil does not tolerate Trachycarpus or Regular Butia. I don’t want to go down that road of failure again.

I tried Butia on several occasions here, and they all died every last one of them, even with super warm winters with hardly any freezes.  I couldn't keep the things alive.  Apparently, they hated my soil.  How do you fix that?  I actually wouldn't mind having one.  

[Collectorpalms]

10 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

I tried Butia on several occasions here, and they all died every last one of them, even with super warm winters with hardly any freezes.  I couldn't keep the things alive.  Apparently, they hated my soil.  How do you fix that?  I actually wouldn't mind having one.  

I saw them plant butia at the Alamo and they died. Soil PH is too alkaline. Those that I had in raised beds died from crown rot in late evening tropical rains. They live in other places nearby but there is also sandy loam I am guessing. Those seem to tolerate both Trachycarpus and butia.

Montgomery county just north of Houston has the best soil around, however unfortunately they were on the bad side of this event as single digits dipped into That county, they also have colder advective nights than here on normally cold calm nights.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

Well, it looks like my yard is about 80% loss right now, but some tropicals may come back from the roots if they weren't too dry prior to the Big Freeze in my extremely sandy yard.  I got down to 18F in my yard, and was probably below freezing for about 40 something straight hours or more now that i think of it.  I wrapped my 3 in ground Coconut Palms, but I don't think that was enough with temps so low, though my 2 that I grew from nuts I collected off the beach here back in 2016, are still showing a slight amount of green on the bases of 2 of the petioles.  The really sad thing is that my big Green Malayan Dwarf that had been in the ground for 5 winters including this winter, and was about 16ft. tall in overall height and still had 5 coconuts on it prior to the freeze looks like it is toast.  I had two Royal Palms, a Florida Royal that had about 2.4 ft. of woody trunk height at the base, and a juvenile Puerto Rican Royal that was only about 8 or 9 ft. tall in overall height.  We had some REALLY NICE looking 30 ft. to 40ft. tall mature Cuban Royals on this side of town, some that were producing seeds prior to this event, as well as big mature seeding Foxails, and some big mature Majesty Palms, big Bismarcks, etc., as well as some nice Royal Poincianas, Hong Kong Orchids, some nice producing Mangoes, Avocadoes, lots of Papayas, all sorts of Citrus, some nice Ficus, etc., and some really nice big Sea Grapes here too.

I was afraid people would no longer want any Coconut Palms in the Rio Grande Valley (where they can often reach maturity and fruit now), and would no longer want any tropicals here in Corpus Christi for several years after this Big Freeze event, but a member of my Tropical Gardening of South Texas group on Facebook who lives in Brownsville, contacted me yesterday, and said people are still interested in Coconut Palms in the RGV.  I also noticed that at Lowe's here in Corpus Christi, they received a big shipment of probably 200 palms just days after the Big Freeze was over, and that shipment has sold out!  It included Queens, Foxtails, Majesties, Pygmy Dates, and some Bottle Palms, as I recall.  So people are anxious to make their South Texas yards look tropical again.  Freezes like the one we just had used to be more frequent, probably occurring about once every 12 to 15 years, but now only happen about once in a generation due to Climate Change.

John

 

P.S.  Coconut Palms ARE at least slightly more cold hardy than they are given credit for, especially when they are healthy and grown ALL ORGANICALLY like mine.  I brought in all 16 that I had in pots.  We lost power, and it got down to 33F in my house, and stayed in the 30'sF in the house for about 36 to 40 + hours.  My 5 biggest ones, 2 Green Malayans about 8ft tall in overall height, and 3 Panama Talls about the same height were left out until Sunday evening unprotected when the second Arctic front came through.  They had already been exposed to quite a few hours in the 30'sF and were even exposed to about an hour and a half to temps of 31.8F and intermittent light freezing drizzle/rain until my wife and I could bring them inside, then exposed to many more hours in the 30'sF inside when the power went out very early the next morning.  Two weeks later, they only have about 40% freeze/cold burn and some spotting, and the new spears look fine and are growing.  Even my little ones that are only about 1.5ft. tall, look okay considering all the hours in the 30'sF they experienced in the house (they had been exposed to some nights in the mid to upper 30'sF outdoors prior to this event). 

[PricklyPearSATC]

On 2/24/2021 at 9:49 PM, NBTX11 said:

I tried Butia on several occasions here, and they all died every last one of them, even with super warm winters with hardly any freezes.  I couldn't keep the things alive.  Apparently, they hated my soil.  How do you fix that?  I actually wouldn't mind having one.  

I have never seen a healthy Butia in San Antonio!  In the 90's there was a healthy one near the parking garage entrance at Methodist Plaza, but I think it's been long gone.  A neighbor had one for years and finally took it out.  It was yellow and pathetic. 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

Just now, PricklyPearSATC said:

I have never seen a healthy Butia in San Antonio!  In the 90's there was a healthy one near the parking garage entrance at Methodist Plaza, but I think it's been long gone.  A neighbor had one for years and finally took it out.  It was yellow and pathetic. 

Apparently, they don't do well in the RGV either, at least according to a friend of mine in La Feria just west of Harlingen, who has tried them there with no luck.  But maybe there it is due to the lengthy hot dry summers?

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

Just now, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Apparently, they don't do well in the RGV either, at least according to a friend of mine in La Feria just west of Harlingen, who has tried them there with no luck.  But maybe there it is due to the lengthy hot dry summers?

John

I have seen some nice BIG ones here in Corpus Christi though, on the east side of town not too far from the water, and at least one BIG one on North Padre Island that I can think of.

[PricklyPearSATC]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

I have seen some nice BIG ones here in Corpus Christi though, on the east side of town not too far from the water, and at least one BIG one on North Padre Island that I can think of.

Sand?  The Hill Country and San Antonio has alkaline, clay fill soil.
Sand begins in South East Bexar County.   
 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

6 minutes ago, PricklyPearSATC said:

Sand?  The Hill Country and San Antonio has alkaline, clay fill soil.
Sand begins in South East Bexar County.   
 

North Padre, straight sand unless it is amended at planting time, but the one I am thinking of a few miles into town across the Oso Bay Bridge is in an area of town that I thought had a lot clay.