Jump to content
  • WELCOME GUEST

    It looks as if you are viewing PalmTalk as an unregistered Guest.

    Please consider registering so as to take better advantage of our vast knowledge base and friendly community.  By registering you will gain access to many features - among them are our powerful Search feature, the ability to Private Message other Users, and be able to post and/or answer questions from all over the world. It is completely free, no “catches,” and you will have complete control over how you wish to use this site.

    PalmTalk is sponsored by the International Palm Society. - an organization dedicated to learning everything about and enjoying palm trees (and their companion plants) while conserving endangered palm species and habitat worldwide. Please take the time to know us all better and register.

    guest Renda04.jpg

Coldest Temperatures since the Arctic Outbreak of December 1989


Collectorpalms

Recommended Posts

18f currently and still snowing which is better than ice. I'm really hoping for 5-6" to blanket the small stuff to help insulate a little. 

BTW wtf is happening again on Thursday?? Its very cold again????

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, jwitt said:

Eight degrees lower than forecast low of 15f.  Cold night is tonight for here. This storm in NM probably sucked some gusto out of the arctic seepage into central/ South Texas, just my hunch. Maybe those Texas lows will go a bit upward.

You know what, I haven't actually thought of this possibility, and you raise a good point here. A lot of the global models like GFS are much too course to resolve the pattern evolutions over mountains/topography - even the "more accurate," finer-spaced Euro is too coarse."

Let's see how things play out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

18f currently and still snowing which is better than ice. I'm really hoping for 5-6" to blanket the small stuff to help insulate a little. 

BTW wtf is happening again on Thursday?? Its very cold again????

Yeah it snows Wednesday and warms slightly and then I guess one last blast of cold air comes. Starting next weekend it warms back up eventually to 60’s and 70’s, atleast locally. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

18f currently and still snowing which is better than ice. 

It's icy down here. 5-8" of snow on top of the ice. I-45 is a hot mess. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've got a fairly large Livistona chinensis under my live oak.  It would be hard to protect the bud without pruning it. 
Planted it in 2008.

Now it's kind of monster.   I does get leaf burn during cold, but I think the lowest it has been through has been about 25 degrees. 
I used to cover it up when it was small. 

My med fan palms pull spears at temps around 25, but they thrive.

I really don't know the hardiness of Livistona chinensis.  It seems to be all over the place. 

It's icy here and 25 F right now. 
Forecast low is 11 F  degrees. 

I spent yesterday protecting all my drip irrigation etc. 


The rest of my palms are sabals

I used to post here in 2008, but lost my original login name.

San Antonio
8b/9a

Edited by PricklyPearSATC
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, NBTX11 said:

My heater is really struggling to keep my house warm.  Upstairs is 10-15 degrees warmer than downstairs

I hope we don't get rolling blackouts! Argh!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, PricklyPearSATC said:

I've got a fairly large Livistona chinensis under my live oak.  It would be hard to protect the bud without pruning it. 
Planted it in 2008.

Now it's kind of monster.   I does get leaf burn during cold, but I think the lowest it has been through has been about 25 degrees. 
I used to cover it up when it was small. 

My med fan palms pull spears at temps around 25, but they thrive.

I really don't know the hardiness of Livistona chinensis.  It seems to be all over the place. 

It's icy here and 25 F right now. 
Forecast low is 11 F  degrees. 

I spent yesterday protecting all my drip irrigation etc. 


The rest of my palms are sabals

I used to post here in 2008, but lost my original login name.

San Antonio
8b/9a

Expect to lose the Livistona.  If you don't, be happy.  Med Fan should pull through.  May spear pull like you said.  Sabals should recover (most likely).  What is hurting us is the length of this freeze.  I don't know how many hours we will spend below 32 but it will be a lot.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

Tomorrow may be a better day than today, it's actually supposed to be sunny out.  Temp is plummeting already here.  

I have Washingtonias in my neighborhood that have experience worst than you will get this weekend, so you should be okay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, amh said:

I have Washingtonias in my neighborhood that have experience worst than you will get this weekend, so you should be okay.

My Filifera will be OK (presumably).  My Robusta will be iffy.  I hope they are OK, they might be OK, but I am mentally prepared to cut down palms.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My skydusters and queen in zone 8b. Took one last picture on final day. By this time tomorrow they are goodbye. I have more Washingtonia than I can count. But only one queen left. She lived through 14.5 no protecting but has the trunk battle scars.

85F300E4-7F1C-4AF6-BB19-48DCD7F819D3.jpeg

775EF65D-FB4B-495C-ABFC-B0C57EB27229.jpeg

Edited by Collectorpalms
  • Like 9
  • Upvote 1

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, jwitt said:

Eight degrees lower than forecast low of 15f.  Cold night is tonight for here. This storm in NM probably sucked some gusto out of the arctic seepage into central/ South Texas, just my hunch. Maybe those Texas lows will go a bit upward. 

Another reason why this is important - NM, West Texas, the Panhandle, etc are all well above sea-level at 3000ft+. Therefore, their "surface" is right about the 850mb line - so if the cold air was sucked into the passes, that can definitely take away the heaviest impact before the surface low reforms in the Gulf.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

My skydusters and queen in zone 8b. Took one last picture on final day. By this time tomorrow they are goodbye. I have more Washingtonia than I can count. But only one queen left. She lived through 14.5 no protecting but has the trunk battle scars.

The queen is toast.  The Washingtonia might surprise you.  I predict one or two of them will pull through.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

The queen is toast.  The Washingtonia might surprise you.  I predict one or two of them will pull through.  

College Station Forecast... 

5FC1DFFF-783E-43ED-9D02-5E44405A0A56.png

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One nearly Native, Sabal Brazoria. And Then one butia hybrid?? I planted out by the Brazos River in Brazos county. And a Canary. Hoping for the best on the Butia. 

2CCE7D02-DA15-468D-B138-1A16E2A55517.jpeg

96A8F896-CCEB-4695-BA21-B4A62C3C8D59.jpeg

B2AE6F75-B6C6-45C2-891F-383DFA4A8541.jpeg

  • Like 5

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

My skydusters and queen in zone 8b. Took one last picture on final day. By this time tomorrow they are goodbye. I have more Washingtonia than I can count. But only one queen left. She lived through 14.5 no protecting but has the trunk battle scars.

85F300E4-7F1C-4AF6-BB19-48DCD7F819D3.jpeg

775EF65D-FB4B-495C-ABFC-B0C57EB27229.jpeg

Damn, that's a pretty sweet Queen to say goodbye to. Hope for some winds to mix the inversion layer into the lower levels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At the end of this.......

Say fall, 2021............

Gonna be some good hardy filifera seeds to be had from parts of Texas

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

My skydusters and queen in zone 8b. Took one last picture on final day. By this time tomorrow they are goodbye. I have more Washingtonia than I can count. But only one queen left. She lived through 14.5 no protecting but has the trunk battle scars.

85F300E4-7F1C-4AF6-BB19-48DCD7F819D3.jpeg

775EF65D-FB4B-495C-ABFC-B0C57EB27229.jpeg

Surprised to see a Queen in Zone 8B.  I've seen large ones die in the early 20s down here.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was from a survivor of the 80s from the Rio Grand Valley. 
Purchased as a silver queen I think. 

Edited by Collectorpalms
  • Like 1

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, jwitt said:

At the end of this.......

Say fall, 2021............

Gonna be some good hardy filifera seeds to be had from parts of Texas

Hardy Filifera are everywhere dude.  I would be surprised to see one Filifera die in Central Texas.  They are all over Austin, Texas, having survived the 1983 and 89 freezes.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

Hardy Filifera are everywhere dude.  I would be surprised to see one Filifera die in Central Texas.  They are all over Austin, Texas, having survived the 1983 and 89 freezes.

Less robusta is what I was alluding to. I never mentioned central Texas, only parts of Texas.  No robusta polluting filifera seeds in parts of Texas.

Been in Austin in the early nineties. Know and saw of "many" of the surviving filifera from the 80's.  Not dozens upon dozens. 

I am also the one who posts of filifera surviving -10f and greater. You mis read or mis interpreted my post. Sorry.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everyone in Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi currently having palpatations and anxiety attacks...I completely feel your pain, but please read this edition of Principes regarding the terrible winter of 1976-77 in Texas. You may find some reassuring information, especially in planning your "revised" gardens after the freeze is over. I learned when I lived in Natchez, Mississippi to plant live oaks for canopy and rely on hardy Sabals and the many clustering palms (Rhapidophyllum, Acoellorrhaphe, Rhapis, Chamaedorea microspadix, et al.), as well as the many beautiful tropical flowering bananas and hardy gingers (Hedychium, many Costus) that are pretty much bulletproof (even if burned to the ground) in southern monster winters. If you adopt something like a "70% rule" (70% bulletproof, 30% "fun-but-temporary" species) you will shed many fewer tears and enjoy replacing the few that you lose during one of these 30-year events. In addition to planting Sabal causiarum behind my Bismarckia, I learned when planting Livistona chinensis all over our courtyard to keep planting young plants under the older, trunking trees so that something would return from underground if the larger, more exposed meristems succumbed (and several did). The problems come when you plant marginal, large, arborescent palms and have to remove these monsters after the freeze. $$$ and PITA.

Here's the link: Principes v.22/3, 1978, Effects of the Winter of 1976-77 on Certain Palm Species in Dallas, Texas

  • Like 6

Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, the temps throughout Tx seem to be pretty stable atm. I'm not seeing on WU any areas tanking. I know tomorrow night is the real litmus test, but just maybe the cold forecasts are being overdone?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In regards to your last statement. Removing these monsters. I actually had very few sources of reliable Palms. They were babies when planted. I was sold numerous filifera that turned out to be robusta. They went at least a decade without a zone hard freeze to even test. By that time, you probably are not going to cut them down if they are so healthy otherwise, but
Trust me I wanted to give them away before this day came... 

  • Like 2

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, NorCalKing said:

So, the temps throughout Tx seem to be pretty stable atm. I'm not seeing on WU any areas tanking. I know tomorrow night is the real litmus test, but just maybe the cold forecasts are being overdone?

It’s dropping a degree an hour. My high was 28, it’s 19 at 9pm. Tomorrow night is the cold night.

i also have been no higher than 33 for three days. Ice is 1/2 thick. Sleet is 1/4 inch, and supposed to snow later.

Edited by Collectorpalms
  • Like 2

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

It’s dropping a degree an hour. My high was 28, it’s 19 at 9pm. Tomorrow night is the cold night.

Interestingly, I'm seeing lower temps in Corpus Christi (28°) than Houston (30°) proper. Heat Island effect?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, jwitt said:

Less robusta is what I was alluding to. I never mentioned central Texas, only parts of Texas.  No robusta polluting filifera seeds in parts of Texas.

Been in Austin in the early nineties. Know and saw of "many" of the surviving filifera from the 80's.  Not dozens upon dozens. 

I am also the one who posts of filifera surviving -10f and greater. You mis read or mis interpreted my post. Sorry.

 

 

Well yeah a lot of Robusta are going to be killed deep into Texas.  I personally feel there will be quite a few survivors in San Antonio, but what do I know.  I guess we'll find out.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, NorCalKing said:

So, the temps throughout Tx seem to be pretty stable atm. I'm not seeing on WU any areas tanking. I know tomorrow night is the real litmus test, but just maybe the cold forecasts are being overdone?

It's stabilized.  We know how cold we are going to get tonight and tomorrow night now.  We are looking at 10-12 both tonight and tomorrow night, with a possible high tomorrow of around 30-32, but sunny.  Right now it's around 20 for San Antonio at almost 9:30 pm, so we still have 8 hours to drop off more.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, NorCalKing said:

Interestingly, I'm seeing lower temps in Corpus Christi (28°) than Houston (30°) proper. Heat Island effect?

Cold still hasn't got to Houston.  They are gonna get theirs.  In epic freezes like this, there is much less heat island effect. 

Edited by NBTX11
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

Cold still hasn't got to Houston.  They are gonna get theirs.  In epic freezes like this, there is much less heat island effect. 

Or the cold got pulled a bit more west that predicted.  Hence the Albuquerque blizzard.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

Well yeah a lot of Robusta are going to be killed deep into Texas.  I personally feel there will be quite a few survivors in San Antonio, but what do I know.  I guess we'll find out.  

That's what I was alluding to. There will be parts of Texas,  if one were to collect filifera seed, that will have a highly likely chance of no crossbreeding robusta within many miles. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, jwitt said:

Or the cold got pulled a bit more west that predicted.  Hence the Albuquerque blizzard.

That's what I was thinking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Temps are currently 2 degrees lower than forecasted now. Im also seeing local forecast revisions (lowered). We didnt get enough snow to help a lot so tens of thousands of plants will be killed at the nursery. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

Good analysis.  All one has to do is drive around Houston and see what is growing to large heights.  You don't see similar landscapes until you get into Jacksonville in the SE for example.  And yes, I know those landscapes are going to be slaughtered on Monday. 

Most of the people around here plant the palm that naturally grows here- the Sabal Palm. You do see tall robustas in places, but not in abundance.  They weren’t widely used as a landscaping plant in the smaller cities (Savannah, Brunswick, Saint Mary’s, Valdosta, Charleston...) until the last huge construction boom in the early 2000’s. But there are some around. 
You’re comparing two historically huge metropolitan areas- Jacksonville and Houston- to smaller cities that never had that huge growth explosion- both industrial, commercial and residential-  until the last 30 years or so (besides maybe Savannah and Charleston, but I contend they used the Sabal because it’s native and of its graceful appeal with the Live Oaks and Magnolias). 
 

We do have some older Sylvesters scattered across the SE- inland up to 40 miles. They’ve survived the coldest weather for decades. We’ve vacationed in Destin and further east towards Biloxi going on 30 years. I can’t tell you accurately how many times they’ve had to replant dead Sylvesters, but I can tell you it’s been at least twice during that time. 
 
 

Edited by Jcalvin
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Temps are currently 2 degrees lower than forecasted now. Im also seeing local forecast revisions (lowered). We didnt get enough snow to help a lot so tens of thousands of plants will be killed at the nursery. 

Sorry to hear that. 

Shows 11*F currently(10:20pm) in Leander, 25-30 miles NW of Austin. Overnight forecast rose from 7* to 8*F earlier today but I would say at this rate it may be lower.

EDIT* forecast now dropped to  7*F overnight, tomorrow shows 8*F. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...