When to split up c. elegans clusters?

[JohnAndSancho]

When should I split these guys up? I've seen this question asked before with replies like "survival of the fittest" and things like that, and I've def pulled a few dead little strugglers out - but the survivors in here are all growing like weeds and I can't help but think they'd do even better if they had more room to spread out. Would these also benefit from the @Pal Meir soil mix of bark and clay like my baby Wedds are in? 

[PalmatierMeg]

Anytime you want. Chamaedorea elegans is a solitary palm anyway. I once spent $3.50 for a 4" pot of them at Walmart, then separated them into 35-40 individual palms. Had nearly 100% survival. I grew them larger, sold some, potted some and planted others in shade all around the yard. Most of them are still alive years later.

You unpot them and wash off as much soil as you can. Then you patiently untangle their roots to separate them

[sashaeffer]

21 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Anytime you want. Chamaedorea elegans is a solitary palm anyway. I once spent $3.50 for a 4" pot of them at Walmart, then separated them into 35-40 individual palms. Had nearly 100% survival. I grew them larger, sold some, potted some and planted others in shade all around the yard. Most of them are still alive years later.

You unpot them and wash off as much soil as you can. Then you patiently untangle their roots to separate them

What a great idea. They are so cheap to buy around here so can easily give it a shot. 

[sashaeffer]

On 12/30/2020 at 5:06 PM, PalmatierMeg said:

Anytime you want. Chamaedorea elegans is a solitary palm anyway. I once spent $3.50 for a 4" pot of them at Walmart, then separated them into 35-40 individual palms. Had nearly 100% survival. I grew them larger, sold some, potted some and planted others in shade all around the yard. Most of them are still alive years later.

You unpot them and wash off as much soil as you can. Then you patiently untangle their roots to separate them

After your inspiration!

John, you should try this. Super easy.  $5.00 for all these after separation.

 

 

[PalmatierMeg]

Easy Peasy

[JohnAndSancho]

*adds metric crap ton of tiny pots to shopping cart*

[sashaeffer]

I had them around the house never thinking I would ever use that small of container for anything but was glad to put them to use after reading your post and what Charlene said to do.

[chad2468emr]

On 1/2/2021 at 9:41 AM, PalmatierMeg said:

Easy Peasy

You got any pics of how those single ones are doing? I never realized they weren’t clumping given that that’s how I’ve always seen them. I’d love to see how a mature single specimen looks, and Google was no help because all I could find were pics of grouped palms. 

[sashaeffer]

1 hour ago, chad2468emr said:

You got any pics of how those single ones are doing? I never realized they weren’t clumping given that that’s how I’ve always seen them. I’d love to see how a mature single specimen looks, and Google was no help because all I could find were pics of grouped palms. 

 

[GoatLockerGuns]

I split one out from my store bought clump about a year and a half ago.  It is doing great as a solitary palm in a pot, and has grown 3 times the size of the ones still in the clump.  Just be careful separating the roots from the rest of the clumped palm roots.  I would image it is easier to separate them when the are younger/smaller (albeit, I have never tried to separate them when larger).

[chad2468emr]

Wow! These look great! To think a solitary, trunking palm that ACTUALLY does well potted indoors has been around all this time and I had no idea. Haha 

@GoatLockerGuns Yours in particular looks really stocky and it’s nuts to think that’s what these palms are supposed to look like as opposed to the whispy little things that clumps turn them into. I’d imagine these would be likely to sell better as singles than the clumps because they actually look like palms as opposed to the fern bushes the clumps resemble. Any tips on making one stocky like that if I try this? My office is in dyer need of a palm and I didn’t think I had enough light until now haha. 

[PalmatierMeg]

I took the following photos of one of my potted Chamaedorea elegans in pots. All of them come from separating a 4" pot of seedlings years ago. They live outdoors - I keep no houseplants - and I move them around the yard at my whim. I also grow them in the ground in shady areas. They are pretty much carefree. I fertilize them 1-2x per year. The irrigation system keeps them moist. Slow-growing but can reach 6-8' tall in many years. They are a solitary palm best grown alone so you can appreciate their delicate looking form. Why people don't grow them more I have no idea.

Chamaedorea elegans in a pot, Cape Coral, FL 2021

And in the ground

[chad2468emr]

@PalmatierMeg Those pics are encouraging! They make such gorgeous palms if single-potted. After reading this thread, I set out on a mission to snag a small pot of these last weekend. Weirdly enough, I could not find one no matter where I went. Tried big box stores as well as a few specialty nurseries that have just about everything. I feel like usually these things are sold by the bushel in just about every location that sells plants, but of course, as soon as I'm looking for somethings its magically scarce, haha. I had my fingers crossed I'd find a potted single at a specialty nursery, but I wasn't even able to find a dime-a-dozen clump, so that was out of the cards. 

What do you suggest in order to encourage the best, fullest, stockiest appearance of the 3 or 4 I end up keeping out of the bunch? I'd imagine it'd be best to start with the smallest ones, actually, since they haven't been primed into the tall, thin, vertically-oriented whisps that keeping them clumped produces. What do you think? 

[PalmatierMeg]

I don't think it matters much. In a 4" pot jammed with seedlings competing with one another, that smallest ones are likely the weakest and on the way out. Separate and pot each up, then give them a chance to grow and recover. This palm is not a fast grower so you shouldn't have to worry about keeping them small or stunting them. 

[GoatLockerGuns]

On 1/9/2021 at 4:04 PM, chad2468emr said:

Wow! These look great! To think a solitary, trunking palm that ACTUALLY does well potted indoors has been around all this time and I had no idea. Haha 

@GoatLockerGuns Yours in particular looks really stocky and it’s nuts to think that’s what these palms are supposed to look like as opposed to the whispy little things that clumps turn them into. I’d imagine these would be likely to sell better as singles than the clumps because they actually look like palms as opposed to the fern bushes the clumps resemble. Any tips on making one stocky like that if I try this? My office is in dyer need of a palm and I didn’t think I had enough light until now haha. 

I think the "stocky-ness" is just a bi-product of separating it out from the larger clump, and letting it grow as a solitary palm.  Not only are the ones still in the clump much smaller, but they are much skinnier as well.  I am growing both the solitary and clumped Chamaedorea elegans under similar conditions (i.e., similar light, grow medium, location, etc...)

[GoatLockerGuns]

2 hours ago, chad2468emr said:

@PalmatierMeg Those pics are encouraging! They make such gorgeous palms if single-potted. After reading this thread, I set out on a mission to snag a small pot of these last weekend. Weirdly enough, I could not find one no matter where I went. Tried big box stores as well as a few specialty nurseries that have just about everything. I feel like usually these things are sold by the bushel in just about every location that sells plants, but of course, as soon as I'm looking for somethings its magically scarce, haha. I had my fingers crossed I'd find a potted single at a specialty nursery, but I wasn't even able to find a dime-a-dozen clump, so that was out of the cards. 

What do you suggest in order to encourage the best, fullest, stockiest appearance of the 3 or 4 I end up keeping out of the bunch? I'd imagine it'd be best to start with the smallest ones, actually, since they haven't been primed into the tall, thin, vertically-oriented whisps that keeping them clumped produces. What do you think? 

I got my clump at IKEA.  There were like 30 separate palms clumped together in the pot.  I don't think I paid more than $10.

[JohnAndSancho]

My clump in the first pic was part of a mail order from Hirts. I think I paid $6, although they were a lot smaller when I first got them in the spring. 

[chad2468emr]

I ended up ordering from Etsy for about $10 including shipping. Wanted that instant gratification, but I can wait! I have seen them at IKEA before, but man.... going in there is always a hassle and I’ll be damned if I don’t leave with at least 7 things I had no intent on buying. Haha 

Ive noticed that some single specimens, when I google, are still kind of stringy even when mature which is why I wanted to see if there was a way to make them stockier, but I guess I’ll take the 4-5 strongest looking and stick them around and see which does what.  

[JohnAndSancho]

Welp, today I got a bunch of 3" pots and a positive Covid 19 test, so I guess I'll finally get around to doing this  I might even try a couple in a semi hydroponic setup just for giggles. 

[PalmatierMeg]

16 hours ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Welp, today I got a bunch of 3" pots and a positive Covid 19 test, so I guess I'll finally get around to doing this  I might even try a couple in a semi hydroponic setup just for giggles. 

Have fun. You are young so Covid should treat you better than it treated me last Nov. After all the hoopla, worry and angst it's almost a relief to get it over with. Entertain us with photos while you're quarantining so we know you're doing OK.

[chad2468emr]

16 hours ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Welp, today I got a bunch of 3" pots and a positive Covid 19 test, so I guess I'll finally get around to doing this  I might even try a couple in a semi hydroponic setup just for giggles. 

Oh no! Sorry to hear that. Definitely keep us posted on your progress with the project as something to keep yourself busy.

I ended up received my pot from Etsy earlier this week, but they were shipped in SOAKING wet soil and there were shipping delays, so they all had extreme root rot. Honestly to the point where I think they'd had it well before they were sent to me. I ended up finding an 8 inch pot of WAY MORE than I could ever use at Palmers in Orlando, so I've currently got them potted around the house. This one in particular is my favorite and has already seemingly rooted a bit judging from how snug it is + grown its newest frond a bit more. Its in a pot that's likely a little large, but its terra cotta and certainly shown no hesitance to dry out since being put in-use. 

Overall, this has turned me on to Chamaedorea's overall and I'm currently on the hunt for some rarer species for in the house. Fun stuff!

[chad2468emr]

So as great as my little guys in small pots are for now, I was just shopping for some nursery pots and came across this for only $40! I’m pretty sure it’s been in this pot for quite a while and was basically forgotten in the back of the greenhouse. The $40 sign was pretty old looking. That was probably the asking price back when it was a new cluster that hadn’t whittled itself down to just these survivors. There were several LONG dead ones in here that basically pulled right out of the soil as well. Definitely needs some cleaning up, but I’m thrilled! When I repot it, I’ll see just how intertwined the roots are before I try splitting them up.

[JohnAndSancho]

30 minutes ago, chad2468emr said:

So as great as my little guys in small pots are for now, I was just shopping for some nursery pots and came across this for only $40! I’m pretty sure it’s been in this pot for quite a while and was basically forgotten in the back of the greenhouse. The $40 sign was pretty old looking. That was probably the asking price back when it was a new cluster that hadn’t whittled itself down to just these survivors. There were several LONG dead ones in here that basically pulled right out of the soil as well. Definitely needs some cleaning up, but I’m thrilled! When I repot it, I’ll see just how intertwined the roots are before I try splitting them up.

Nice find. I feel bad because I started this thread forever ago and still haven't touched mine lol.

[chad2468emr]

26 minutes ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Nice find. I feel bad because I started this thread forever ago and still haven't touched mine lol.

Haha well I’m glad you did because it turned me onto how much I like chamaedorea species and I’m loving it so far! 

Just finished cleaning them up. All-in-all, there were three I cut out of the cluster because they weren’t doing so well. There were 5-6 completely dead ones that were only standing up by a thread and basically turned to dust when I touched them. This really supports my theory that this was a run of the mill clump of parlor palms and over the many years has whittled down to what’s now left. 

Gotta say, saw some of the weirdest stuff while cleaning them, haha. TONS of vestigial roots on one to where it kind of grossed me out by how it looked. That same one had apparently died at one point, and a new crown shaft grew out of the side of it. I didn’t even know that was possible. That one also snapped in half when I gently pulled on it to remove a boot. These things sure seem to not want to die... On several of them, there were tons of fronds that were still mostly green but pulled right off. Boots that hadn’t been removed causing some type of growth to become trapped and curl upon itself. Also some sketchy looking black stuff under some of the boots that looks a little too fungal for my taste, so it’s already been sprayed with systemic fungicide. 

Tomorrow I’ll repot them and post updated pics.  

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by chad2468emr

[JohnAndSancho]

Honestly, mine are growing so well, I hate to mess with them. I bought a big box of 3" pots specifically to split them up. 

 

Same with my Monstera, it's still in it's nursery pot - which it's split with its roots - but it's spitting out new leaves left and right, so I really don't want to disturb it. 

 

But hey, if any good comes from my posts or indecisiveness, I'm here for it. 

[JohnAndSancho]

The really important question @chad2468emr is - how is Frank the puppy?

[chad2468emr]

All done! Those roots weren’t just bound, they were BOUND. And judging from how many dead palms there were in the pot, most of them did not belong to the ones that were still alive, haha. I ended up separating into two singles and a double. The two singles may or may not make it - those roots were quite impossible to untangle and I’ll spare you the details, but let pot size allow you to infer how many roots were lost. 
 

Oh, and @JohnAndSancho, Frank is doing well. Spoiled rotten as always, haha.

Edited February 7, 2021 by chad2468emr

[JLM]

Separated my double Majesties and my 4 clump Pygmies. The Pygmy Dates were hell, but the Majesties went pretty smooth. The smaller Majesty is pretty wobbly in its pot, so i have anchored it to the edges of the pot to ensure it doesnt come out. Going to give them extra care over the next few weeks while they establish themselves in their pots.

[chad2468emr]

8 hours ago, JLM said:

Separated my double Majesties and my 4 clump Pygmies. The Pygmy Dates were hell, but the Majesties went pretty smooth. The smaller Majesty is pretty wobbly in its pot, so i have anchored it to the edges of the pot to ensure it doesnt come out. Going to give them extra care over the next few weeks while they establish themselves in their pots.

Hope your smaller majesty pulls through! I’ve done the same with them in the past, and ended up only keeping the larger of the two after giving the smaller one six months to re-establish itself. It just kept dropping fronds and when I finally gave up and pulled it, I saw it hadn’t grown a single root. 

[JLM]

38 minutes ago, chad2468emr said:

Hope your smaller majesty pulls through! I’ve done the same with them in the past, and ended up only keeping the larger of the two after giving the smaller one six months to re-establish itself. It just kept dropping fronds and when I finally gave up and pulled it, I saw it hadn’t grown a single root. 

So far ive not seen any discoloration out of either of them, but ill watch them closely!

[GoatLockerGuns]

22 hours ago, chad2468emr said:

Those roots weren’t just bound, they were BOUND.

That root ball looked crazy!  Was there even any dirt left in there?  They look healthy though, and they will be awesome specimens in the singular form.

[JohnAndSancho]

Sideshow Bob got split up not too long ago. I had way too many plants in that pot to keep all of them, so I kept the healthiest looking ones with the biggest roots. I'm noticing that some of the taller leaves are really droopy now that they don't have their brothers and sisters to lean on. And these tiny pots dry out really fast, too. I've got 2 more 6" community pots and I'm just gonna let them keep doing their thing. 

[JohnAndSancho]

Picless update.

 

Since I split these up, I've had to cut off a lot of existing tall (relatively speaking) growth, but the individuals under the grow lights are giving me some explosive (relatively speaking) vertical growth.