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My Patrick Schafer Hybrids


Fallen Munk

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5 hours ago, knikfar said:

I wonder if this hybrid is hardier than a butia x jubaea? Thoughts? 

I know the internet says that "Jubaea is the hardiest pinnate palm", but I have a hard time believing this.  I would like some of the Texans to chime in with their observations comparing Jubaea to Butia during palmageddon.  Jubaea may be hardier in a very dry freeze, but I think once you add any amount of moisture into the mix, Butia will come out ahead.  

I lost a small Jubaea to 16f and a week below freezing.  Admittedly it was nutrient deficient going into this event.  But 2 Butia of similar and even smaller size were totally unphased by the same event.  

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Brand new shipment...

Butia eriospatha x microspadix f2 (2) 

Butia x Lytocaryum weddellianum 

Butia x allegretensis

Trachycarpus "naggy" x Nova (2)

Butia compacta x microspadix

Butia x Allagoptera arenaria 

Butia Silva minor starting to go pinnate

They may not look like much now... but give them a year.....

20221020_184423.jpg

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28 minutes ago, Gallop said:

B Yata x BxQ from Patrix

A351FE9A-CA63-4721-913A-0FC5A776BFE0.jpeg

33B26BC3-7D7C-45CA-BEA7-C90B46470C65.jpeg

B23E3A73-E145-4C4C-97E0-6D8472906292.jpeg

C5103A23-00D2-441D-8EF3-B0400370C5D4.jpeg

Gorgeous!! I have one also. It only has 18 inches of trunk. In Dallas. How old is yours? 

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30 minutes ago, Gallop said:

B Yata x BxQ from Patrix

A351FE9A-CA63-4721-913A-0FC5A776BFE0.jpeg

33B26BC3-7D7C-45CA-BEA7-C90B46470C65.jpeg

B23E3A73-E145-4C4C-97E0-6D8472906292.jpeg

C5103A23-00D2-441D-8EF3-B0400370C5D4.jpeg

Gorgeous!! I have one also. It only has 18 inches of trunk. In Dallas. How old is yours? 

0C9532B9-8091-4979-AA65-7B604FDDF0CE.jpeg

BA380DC9-9D1E-416E-A750-7C01D2BB132A.jpeg

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I also have a butia x jubea (jubea)

Also from Patric. Acquired in 2018. Both survived 3F in 2021. Very young covered in snow. Apical meristem close to ground to absorb escaping ground heat. 

F6AA5492-276F-469C-94C2-A740DDE3EE88.jpeg

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Tony I put my Yata x BxS in the ground 3yrs ago as a 5gal. I also have SXB from Patrix that I like. Looks a bit different than the standard mule. I need to trim some limbs off the surrounding palms to get a good pic but these will give you an Idea.971E5B8F-1728-4631-B066-76EB1AD65C4A.thumb.jpeg.84df57939a892ecbb0974d12d8229526.jpeg135F03B7-4D97-431A-9930-04C914380772.thumb.jpeg.568c665e6fa074370c29344d87486303.jpeg

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Paul Gallop

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6 hours ago, Trustandi said:

@ShadyDan I think so! 👍

Here are my Patrick hybrids:

1. B x PJTPXL_20220930_155255166.thumb.jpg.e365c1ad670c4989cd4658d855e88712.jpg

2. B x PJC

PXL_20220930_154613125.thumb.jpg.c2db578d9df98061d765112b1e9607e3.jpg

3. B x PJSPXL_20220930_155748429.thumb.jpg.a484ad2d0c70b25574404bf704ffc5e8.jpg

4.  PJC x (BxJ)PXL_20220930_160248954.thumb.jpg.04be17678553c563565eceb2c449a447.jpg

5. (BxJ) x (BxS)PXL_20220930_155003540.thumb.jpg.bfd1a2ecf50aeea0293c79178a2e3ea9.jpg

6. J x B.YatayPXL_20220930_160414110.thumb.jpg.44a06af7e1883adf8186226622ed5b83.jpg

7.  J x BPXL_20220930_155637191.thumb.jpg.479282d1ec01dc92e8bc48ab6d40fab8.jpg

8. (BxJ) x J? PXL_20220930_155243369.thumb.jpg.40d862fffb62ed8c26a28899257ffb29.jpg

9. (BXJ) x S 

PXL_20220930_160352363.thumb.jpg.c23d41c29cec68f4ac2313351e34795b.jpg

PXL_20220930_155835042.jpg

Nice collection !!!

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11 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

I know the internet says that "Jubaea is the hardiest pinnate palm", but I have a hard time believing this.  I would like some of the Texans to chime in with their observations comparing Jubaea to Butia during palmageddon.  Jubaea may be hardier in a very dry freeze, but I think once you add any amount of moisture into the mix, Butia will come out ahead.  

I lost a small Jubaea to 16f and a week below freezing.  Admittedly it was nutrient deficient going into this event.  But 2 Butia of similar and even smaller size were totally unphased by the same event.  

Very helpful observations, as usual from you though. :)  This give me more hope of keeping my butia alive longer but I'm still hoping my butia x jubaea is hardier than a butia or a jubaea. 

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11 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

Brand new shipment...

Butia eriospatha x microspadix f2 (2) 

Butia x Lytocaryum weddellianum 

Butia x allegretensis

Trachycarpus "naggy" x Nova (2)

Butia compacta x microspadix

Butia x Allagoptera arenaria 

Butia Silva minor starting to go pinnate

They may not look like much now... but give them a year.....

20221020_184423.jpg

All of these should be hardy for you in Fayetteville, right? 

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@knikfarI wouldn't say they're hardy for Fayetteville, and I don't plan on putting them in the ground there.  I think straight Butia (odorata, eriospatha, capitata) stand a good chance there (with some help when young), but once you start mixing in less hardy genes I don't know how they would do.  

One of the reasons I'm interested in the dwarf Butias, is the ease of keeping them in pots and moving them wherever I move.  Plus, if you plant them in a marginal climate, they'll be easier to protect.  

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13 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

I would like some of the Texans to chime in with their observations comparing Jubaea to Butia during palmageddon.

I have/had juveniles of both Butia odorata and Jubaea chilensisJubaea chilensis survived the palmageddon (sort of, I mean, there was no spear pull), but never really thrived afterwards.  It finally died about a year later.  I did not have the Butia odorata during the palmageddon (I planted it shortly thereafter); however, it has been struggling since an ice event we experienced in February of this year (there was a sheet of ice on everything in the yard for two days straight).  There was spear pull on the Butia odorata after that event, but new spears regrew about two months later.  I think this ice event was also what finally did in the Jubaea chilensis.  Not particularly cold (I think the low I recorded in my yard for that event was like 22F), just cold and wet...and with ice.  We also had a brutally hot summer here.  Butia odorata is still hanging in there for now.  The Riverwalk Jubaea chilensis ( or Jubaea hybrid) finally died as well.  I saw new growth in August of 2021 after palmageddon; not really sure what happened.

IN MEMORIAM (October 2022)

image.thumb.jpeg.e547e8c76f431dd35bb692b618b94f00.jpeg

August 2021

image.thumb.jpeg.444e2d3a8d0ec16692c8d634a64d3956.jpeg

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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15 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

I know the internet says that "Jubaea is the hardiest pinnate palm", but I have a hard time believing this.  I would like some of the Texans to chime in with their observations comparing Jubaea to Butia during palmageddon.  Jubaea may be hardier in a very dry freeze, but I think once you add any amount of moisture into the mix, Butia will come out ahead.  

I lost a small Jubaea to 16f and a week below freezing.  Admittedly it was nutrient deficient going into this event.  But 2 Butia of similar and even smaller size were totally unphased by the same event.  

Observations from WA and BC during last winters freeze has shown that Jubaea are hardier in our climate.  I was on the fence as to which one was hardier considering how well my own Butias have done.  But considering no Butias survived up north and some Jubaea's did further solidifies what most palm growers in the PNW have been saying all along.   So I have to go where the evidence leads me.

Your Jubaea wasn't in the best condition, I'm sure if it had a couple years in the ground it would've made it.  I bought one of those Uresanas at the same time and it died too, whereas my smaller and more established one was unphased.  It was the only Sabal I've lost in winter.  

Nice plant haul too.

Edited by Chester B
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35 minutes ago, Chester B said:

 

Nice plant haul too.

Yeah I had some explaining to do with the wife for that one. 

Who lost Butias up here?  I wasn't tracking that there were butias that croaked but Jubaea that didn't.  I know Joe Clemente videoed the Jubaea that died in his town there on SSI, but again it was set backby overpruning.  Don't know how much difference that makes but evidently, at least some. 

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34 minutes ago, Chester B said:

Observations from WA and BC during last winters freeze has shown that Jubaea are hardier in our climate.  I was on the fence as to which one was hardier considering how well my own Butias have done.  But considering no Butias survived up north and some Jubaea's did further solidifies what most palm growers in the PNW have been saying all along.   So I have to go where the evidence leads me.

Your Jubaea wasn't in the best condition, I'm sure if it had a couple years in the ground it would've made it.  I bought one of those Uresanas at the same time and it died too, whereas my smaller and more established one was unphased.  It was the only Sabal I've lost in winter.  

Nice plant haul too.

I have to agree that Jubaea is the best for the PNW, based clearly on observational evidence and reports from the UK (similar climate). Although, up here my Butia and I few I have seen around Nanaimo and Victoria DID survive so I'll need to disagree there. Not sure how much protection (if any) of the other Island Butias had, but mine had a frost cloth on it that blew off while I was away for Christmas. It was exposed to the worst of the freeze and came out with just a little tip burn on the fronds. 

That being said, ultimately the hardiest individual up here is going to be the one that is the healthiest, best established, and planted in the best growing site. Regardless of being Jubaea, Butia, or hybrid.

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Zone 8b, Csb (Warm-summer Mediterranean climate). 1,940 annual sunshine hours 
Annual lows-> 19/20: -5.0C, 20/21: -5.5C, 21/22: -8.3C, 22/23: -9.4C, 23/24: 1.1C (so far!)

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18 minutes ago, Jesse PNW said:

Yeah I had some explaining to do with the wife for that one. 

Who lost Butias up here?  I wasn't tracking that there were butias that croaked but Jubaea that didn't.  I know Joe Clemente videoed the Jubaea that died in his town there on SSI, but again it was set backby overpruning.  Don't know how much difference that makes but evidently, at least some. 

All I'm going to say is to make sure you get a new place with a whole lot of property!

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19 minutes ago, ShadyDan said:

I have to agree that Jubaea is the best for the PNW, based clearly on observational evidence and reports from the UK (similar climate). Although, up here my Butia and I few I have seen around Nanaimo and Victoria DID survive so I'll need to disagree there. Not sure how much protection (if any) of the other Island Butias had, but mine had a frost cloth on it that blew off while I was away for Christmas. It was exposed to the worst of the freeze and came out with just a little tip burn on the fronds. 

That being said, ultimately the hardiest individual up here is going to be the one that is the healthiest, best established, and planted in the best growing site. Regardless of being Jubaea, Butia, or hybrid.

Based on experience from all the old time palm growers Jubaea as according to them was hardier.  Perhaps now with the warming trend that has been going on both will be reliable.  Glad t hear your Butia made it with little to no protection.  And feel free to disagree based on your experience, more data points is always important.

I don't know his name but PalmDaddy on Bowen Island had a lot of losses as the weather hit when he was on vacation.  He has a pretty nice Jubaea that took some damage to some fronds but pretty much came through with flying colors whereas he lost his waggies and some of his Chamaerops didn't make it.  It's not what I would've predicted.

Back to the original - I still am growing out my Buta yatay x Parajubaea sunkha to see if they will survive our climate.  My guess is that I will plant the first one in 2025.  I received two and they do not look exactly the same so far.  As well I have 2 of the BYxJ and at this point they are very dissimilar looking too.

 

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23 minutes ago, Chester B said:

Based on experience from all the old time palm growers Jubaea as according to them was hardier.  Perhaps now with the warming trend that has been going on both will be reliable.  Glad t hear your Butia made it with little to no protection.  And feel free to disagree based on your experience, more data points is always important.

I don't know his name but PalmDaddy on Bowen Island had a lot of losses as the weather hit when he was on vacation.  He has a pretty nice Jubaea that took some damage to some fronds but pretty much came through with flying colors whereas he lost his waggies and some of his Chamaerops didn't make it.  It's not what I would've predicted.

Back to the original - I still am growing out my Buta yatay x Parajubaea sunkha to see if they will survive our climate.  My guess is that I will plant the first one in 2025.  I received two and they do not look exactly the same so far.  As well I have 2 of the BYxJ and at this point they are very dissimilar looking too.

 

Yea Bowen Island is right off the coast from Vancouver, so its at the mercy of all those nasty artic outflows coming out of Howe Sound and the Fraser Valley. By the time those outflows reach me on the big Island they have dissipated quite a bit. There's a couple growers in the Vancouver area that definitely over-estimate their growing zones and think if some of the palms don't work for them, they must not be good for the Northwest in general. Waggies and Chamaerops in my neck of the woods came through last winter completely unscathed. 

2025 is too long away! I want to see results now! I would be way to impatient to keep them out of the ground for that long. We do have the triple dip of La Nina this winter so I don't blame you on holding out at least through this year. Yatays and PJs are both such nice looking palms that it would be a huge win if yours survived long term. 

Zone 8b, Csb (Warm-summer Mediterranean climate). 1,940 annual sunshine hours 
Annual lows-> 19/20: -5.0C, 20/21: -5.5C, 21/22: -8.3C, 22/23: -9.4C, 23/24: 1.1C (so far!)

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1 hour ago, ShadyDan said:

Yea Bowen Island is right off the coast from Vancouver, so its at the mercy of all those nasty artic outflows coming out of Howe Sound and the Fraser Valley. By the time those outflows reach me on the big Island they have dissipated quite a bit. There's a couple growers in the Vancouver area that definitely over-estimate their growing zones and think if some of the palms don't work for them, they must not be good for the Northwest in general. Waggies and Chamaerops in my neck of the woods came through last winter completely unscathed. 

2025 is too long away! I want to see results now! I would be way to impatient to keep them out of the ground for that long. We do have the triple dip of La Nina this winter so I don't blame you on holding out at least through this year. Yatays and PJs are both such nice looking palms that it would be a huge win if yours survived long term. 

Ah I meant 2024.  Want to make sure they have some size before I risk them and give them the best shot possible.

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Collection/ update video. Seems easier than 100 photos. One not pictured inside is eriospatha/microspadix x PJSunkha, very small liner, in the window inside for now until bigger. The makings of a 3acre PNW jungle. 

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9 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

@NWpalms@206that's an unbelievable collection....  seriously.  

Thanks man, Im riding that line between hobby and obsession lol! Hopefully the video wasn’t skipping for anyone else maybe my reception. Next year I hope to have the ability to start connecting people and palms. For now building my paradise. I’m a go big or go home type so give it a few years it’ll be impressive. :) 

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On 10/20/2022 at 10:00 PM, Jesse PNW said:

Brand new shipment...

Butia eriospatha x microspadix f2 (2) 

Butia x Lytocaryum weddellianum 

Butia x allegretensis

Trachycarpus "naggy" x Nova (2)

Butia compacta x microspadix

Butia x Allagoptera arenaria 

Butia Silva minor starting to go pinnate

They may not look like much now... but give them a year.....

20221020_184423.jpg

Some interesting crosses there, can't wait to see their progression

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On 10/22/2022 at 7:03 PM, NWpalms@206 said:

Collection/ update video. Seems easier than 100 photos. One not pictured inside is eriospatha/microspadix x PJSunkha, very small liner, in the window inside for now until bigger. The makings of a 3acre PNW jungle. 

IMG_6599.MOV

Holy canoli

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On 10/21/2022 at 10:09 AM, GoatLockerGuns said:

I have/had juveniles of both Butia odorata and Jubaea chilensisJubaea chilensis survived the palmageddon (sort of, I mean, there was no spear pull), but never really thrived afterwards.  It finally died about a year later.  I did not have the Butia odorata during the palmageddon (I planted it shortly thereafter); however, it has been struggling since an ice event we experienced in February of this year (there was a sheet of ice on everything in the yard for two days straight).  There was spear pull on the Butia odorata after that event, but new spears regrew about two months later.  I think this ice event was also what finally did in the Jubaea chilensis.  Not particularly cold (I think the low I recorded in my yard for that event was like 22F), just cold and wet...and with ice.  We also had a brutally hot summer here.  Butia odorata is still hanging in there for now.  The Riverwalk Jubaea chilensis ( or Jubaea hybrid) finally died as well.  I saw new growth in August of 2021 after palmageddon; not really sure what happened.

IN MEMORIAM (October 2022)

image.thumb.jpeg.e547e8c76f431dd35bb692b618b94f00.jpeg

August 2021

image.thumb.jpeg.444e2d3a8d0ec16692c8d634a64d3956.jpeg

Maybe they got chop happy.

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On 10/23/2022 at 6:24 AM, NWpalms@206 said:

, Im riding that line between hobby and obsession lol! 

I think you've got both feet on the other side of that line now!

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1 hour ago, Jesse PNW said:

I think you've got both feet on the other side of that line now!

You should see Patricks place! mine pales in comparison, its pretty remarkable all that he has goin on. 

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On 10/22/2022 at 6:03 PM, NWpalms@206 said:

Collection/ update video. Seems easier than 100 photos. One not pictured inside is eriospatha/microspadix x PJSunkha, very small liner, in the window inside for now until bigger. The makings of a 3acre PNW jungle. 

The “Pallida alplains” is Yucca pallida which grows in Central to Northern Texas. Alplains is an online seed collector/dealer based out of Colorado.

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58 minutes ago, Meangreen94z said:

The “Pallida alplains” is Yucca pallida which grows in Central to Northern Texas. Alplains is an online seed collector/dealer based out of Colorado.

Hey thanks! I was trying to find what that was. Nailed it. 

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On 10/20/2022 at 9:00 PM, Jesse PNW said:

Brand new shipment...

Butia eriospatha x microspadix f2 (2) 

Butia x Lytocaryum weddellianum 

Butia x allegretensis

Trachycarpus "naggy" x Nova (2)

Butia compacta x microspadix

Butia x Allagoptera arenaria 

Butia Silva minor starting to go pinnate

They may not look like much now... but give them a year.....

20221020_184423.jpg

Just watched your YouTube vid on these :shaka-2:

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21 minutes ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Just watched your YouTube vid on these :shaka-2:

You're one of about 3 people then!  My channel is pretty off-the-grid. Which I prefer.

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13 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

You're one of about 3 people then!  My channel is pretty off-the-grid. Which I prefer.

I stumbled on your videos the other day too. nice to see others collections/updates! I was thinking about starting a little palms channel, Lots to show off, and Im in it for life now! 

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I document things for my own reference, and I constantly look back through old videos to see how much my palms have grown, or how I went about something.  

3 hours ago, NWpalms@206 said:

I stumbled on your videos the other day too. nice to see others collections/updates! I was thinking about starting a little palms channel, Lots to show off, and Im in it for life now! 

You should definitely start video documenting your palms. 

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18 hours ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Just watched your YouTube vid on these :shaka-2:

I just watched it as well.  Besides the awesome hybrids that you were showing off, that word jumble coming out of your mouth really impressed me as well.  Were you able to get all those binomial names out correctly in just one take?

Also, your grow room/sun room setup is pretty dope.  I understand the labor of love involved with taking care of all those seedlings.  From what was shown in the camera angle, they all look really healthy...kudos...

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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On 10/21/2022 at 11:08 AM, Jesse PNW said:

Who lost Butias up here?  I wasn't tracking that there were butias that croaked but Jubaea that didn't.  

We've had two winters back to back with ice storms.  None of my in ground jubaea or butia were phased one bit.  Potted however had spear pull but recovered.  Shockingly, I  had one potted trachy that spear pulled and didn't recover and most of those showed some banding on the fronds.

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1 hour ago, Fallen Munk said:

We've had two winters back to back with ice storms.  None of my in ground jubaea or butia were phased one bit.  Potted however had spear pull but recovered.  Shockingly, I  had one potted trachy that spear pulled and didn't recover and most of those showed some banding on the fronds.

This wet season is already starting off below normal temps.  Next week is looking pretty cold.  Good chance we'll be getting our first frost.

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3 hours ago, Chester B said:

This wet season is already starting off below normal temps.  Next week is looking pretty cold.  Good chance we'll be getting our first frost.

First patchy frost here this morning. No damage on anything tender, but winters here. Sea level snow in the forecast for next Thursday. Very skeptical it will actually happen, but don't like seeing it anyways. Happy to see early snow up in the mountains though for ski season. 

image.thumb.jpeg.4f8035e296ff9827fd12e914ae7a58a1.jpeg

 

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Zone 8b, Csb (Warm-summer Mediterranean climate). 1,940 annual sunshine hours 
Annual lows-> 19/20: -5.0C, 20/21: -5.5C, 21/22: -8.3C, 22/23: -9.4C, 23/24: 1.1C (so far!)

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