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Queen Palms in San Antonio


ChrisA
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34 minutes ago, amh said:

The heat loss from the house should add a few degrees and the house blocks the really cold northern winds.

I don't worry about which side of house it's on, or where it's at.  It's either going to make it or it isn't.  It's going to get too big around here to protect anyways, so what's the point.  I do very little protecting.  I had a nice queen that died in 2010.  I have a 40 foot Robusta in my yard.  You can't protect that.  If we get a 1989 freeze it might die, oh well.  I get enjoyment out of it now.  It might live another 40 years and I will probably be long gone by then.

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  • 2 weeks later...

These Queens are kind of famous around here, mainly because they are right off Broadway near The Pearl: https://goo.gl/maps/z8MWfB7tAyFUMT199.  Not sure how long they have been here, but I first noticed them in 2017.

image.thumb.jpeg.3f0907446507f84afc6506fc5326952b.jpeg

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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3 hours ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

These Queens are kind of famous around here, mainly because they are right off Broadway near The Pearl: https://goo.gl/maps/z8MWfB7tAyFUMT199.  Not sure how long they have been here, but I first noticed them in 2017.

 

Per the streetview history, it appears they were planted in 2014 

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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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  • 3 weeks later...
15 minutes ago, Sean.N.GulfBreeze said:

How are these palms doing today?????

I'll try to get out tomorrow and see how the local queen palms are doing, but my guess is they are completely dead, unless there was some type of elaborate protection scheme.

I did notice a smaller queen that was alive and looked generally healthy a couple days ago.  I was surprised and figured they went to great lengths protecting it.

Any queens left out to fend for themselves are either dead or in the process of dying, in my opinion. 

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I lived in northeast San Antonio and I would always see queen palms getting fried most winters either taking damage or dying but they were cheap enough to replace. I saw one with a building on one side and a pool on the other side that never took damage. Probably the perfect micro.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Man i hope they make it. Those were some nice Queens!

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Palms - 3 S. romanzoffiana, 2 W. bifurcata, 7 W. robusta, 3 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 P. roebelenii, 2 S. palmetto, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 A. merillii, 3 P. sylvestris

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2 hours ago, JLM said:

Man i hope they make it. Those were some nice Queens!

I hope so too... have my doubts as there wasn't any obvious green tissue visible at all.  But am glad to see that they didn't remove them right away and maybe will give them a chance to reveal whether they are dead or just stunned.

Edited by mulungu
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On 1/21/2021 at 12:52 PM, amh said:

I rarely go south of Sonterra, but have noticed that the taco cabanas usually have interesting landscaping. Has anyone considered starting a thread on franchises that frequently use palms?

The sad state of  Cabana near me at Bandera and Guilbeau.  Screenshots from google street view
First pic: Early 2008 had two queens, a washie, numerous trachycarpus.  However late in 2008, trachycarpus started dying at the dentist office across the street.  Trachycarpus eventually started dying at Taco Cabana.  First pic is from Jan 2008 (poor quality)  They really were doing a hatchet job on their trachycarpus. 

Second pic, April 2011: The freeze of 2011, severely damaged their queens and they were removed. For some reason, they also removed the the washie. 

Last picture is from 2020.  The trachycarpus is on the left is dead.  Only one trachycarpus remains at this Taco Cabana
 

Screenshot_2021-03-09 Google Maps(5).png

Screenshot_2021-03-09 Google Maps(16).png

Screenshot_2021-03-09 Google Maps(10).png

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9 minutes ago, PricklyPearSATC said:

The sad state of  Cabana near me at Bandera and Guilbeau.  Screenshots from google street view
First pic: Early 2008 had two queens, a washie, numerous trachycarpus.  However late in 2008, trachycarpus started dying at the dentist office across the street.  Trachycarpus eventually started dying at Taco Cabana.  First pic is from Jan 2008 (poor quality)  They really were doing a hatchet job on their trachycarpus. 

Second pic, April 2011: The freeze of 2011, severely damaged their queens and they were removed. For some reason, they also removed the the washie. 

Last picture is from 2020.  The trachycarpus is on the left is dead.  Only one trachycarpus remains at this Taco Cabana
 

Screenshot_2021-03-09 Google Maps(5).png

Screenshot_2021-03-09 Google Maps(16).png

Screenshot_2021-03-09 Google Maps(10).png

I can understand removing the queens, but the other palms should be able to survive.

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Yesterday, I saw some boxwoods in the Deco district that were completely white.   The entire hedge was white!  Top to bottom. 
They got hit really hard in that neighborhood. 
My boxwoods just had freezer burn on the tips. 
It is really bizarre because the Deco district is a warmer microclimate than my suburban setting.   (About 3 miles NW of downtown)
Also their viburnums were completely brown, but mine were only partly brown.  It's really weird! 

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4 minutes ago, PricklyPearSATC said:

Yesterday, I saw some boxwoods in the Deco district that were completely white.   The entire hedge was white!  Top to bottom. 
They got hit really hard in that neighborhood. 
My boxwoods just had freezer burn on the tips. 
It is really bizarre because the Deco district is a warmer microclimate than my suburban setting.   (About 3 miles NW of downtown)
Also their viburnums were completely brown, but mine were only partly brown.  It's really weird! 

Very weird, my boxwoods have absolutely no damage. I was significantly colder, but I did have canopy above.

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30 minutes ago, PricklyPearSATC said:

The sad state of  Cabana near me at Bandera and Guilbeau.  Screenshots from google street view
First pic: Early 2008 had two queens, a washie, numerous trachycarpus.  However late in 2008, trachycarpus started dying at the dentist office across the street.  Trachycarpus eventually started dying at Taco Cabana.  First pic is from Jan 2008 (poor quality)  They really were doing a hatchet job on their trachycarpus. 

Second pic, April 2011: The freeze of 2011, severely damaged their queens and they were removed. For some reason, they also removed the the washie. 

Last picture is from 2020.  The trachycarpus is on the left is dead.  Only one trachycarpus remains at this Taco Cabana
 

Screenshot_2021-03-09 Google Maps(5).png

Screenshot_2021-03-09 Google Maps(16).png

Screenshot_2021-03-09 Google Maps(10).png

The queen should have been left. Many recovered in 2011. Guaranteed they took it down before allowing it to recover. The washy should have been left alone. 

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3 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

The queen should have been left. Many recovered in 2011. Guaranteed they took it down before allowing it to recover. The washy should have been left alone. 

I dont know the exact cold hardiness of queen palms, but the teens are or were not uncommon in this area.

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6 minutes ago, amh said:

I dont know the exact cold hardiness of queen palms, but the teens are or were not uncommon in this area.

Some queens recovered in 2011 in New Braunfels if they were left alone to recover. 

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Interesting how there always seems to be some degree of serendipity with these freezes. Variations in lows across differing parts of the city, details of the local microclimate, stresses preceding the cold event, unseen genetic factors... all seem to produce outcomes that are not entirely predictable-- even for individuals of the same species standing right next to each other.

These queens across from Rolling Oaks Mall were taken down quick after the 2011 freeze, but honestly I think they really were dead. The airport temp said 17 F for that blast, but my yard went to 14 F in that freeze and it couldn't have been much warmer there, not too far away.

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.5940949,-98.3541973,3a,75y,228.53h,79.06t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sB5AxkezBPFTlIMc2FcjqrQ!2e0!5s20110301T000000!7i13312!8i6656

These queens were near the airport:

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.5164219,-98.4495415,3a,75y,16.71h,95.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRNFzdMV7sotgCNTJf0iYYw!2e0!7i3328!8i1664

They got fried in 2010 and 2011.  One was clearly dead and removed soon after, but the other one was left.

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.5164244,-98.4495105,3a,75y,3.89h,96.5t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s2rPOdNxyTPXu2eZJQTr0zg!2e0!5s20110301T000000!7i13312!8i6656

It struggled for a couple of years and tried to come back, but was never the same.  I remember I used to keep an eye on it because it looked like it was going to pull through and give some cold hardy seeds, but it eventually collapsed and was removed. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.5164258,-98.4496028,3a,75y,7.68h,90.54t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXyrRMsyzpeAOCOd7d8TlyA!2e0!5s20110401T000000!7i13312!8i6656

Taco Cabana I-10 and DeZavala also used to have very nice queens that were removed after the 2011 freeze but I never was sure if they were truly killed or prematurely removed for being unsightly.

Edited by mulungu
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  • 3 weeks later...

LOL...Queens selling at H-E-B in Leon Springs.  Spring has sprung!  Anyone feeling optimistic post freeze?

image.thumb.png.56e1847780126103095adf04dad2d3f5.png

image.thumb.png.00803e09c4e7a5960c97c79d770db608.png

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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On 1/23/2021 at 8:30 PM, NBTX11 said:

They are super easy to grow from seed.  I have a 25 footer in my yard that has a massive fat trunk.  I also have about a 10 foot tall one that I grew from seed.

I planted a bunch around New Braunfels by simply throwing out seed in public flower beds.  The McDonalds on 46 and I35 had a 15 foot tall Filifera that I planted by simply tossing some seeds in their flower bed.  That is until they cut it down about 2 weeks ago due to renovations.  There's like 8 of them around the old jack in the box on Seguin St that I planted and some of them are huge now.

I know those palms very well. I lived not too far from that Jack in the Box. Although I know they are suckers but the Washingtonias inbetween Starbucks and chicken express are large, I’ve watched them grow from little baby trees. 
 

 

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On 3/9/2021 at 12:15 PM, NBTX11 said:

Some queens recovered in 2011 in New Braunfels if they were left alone to recover. 

I remember seeing this queen get beat up by the winter for several years but it always survived. I don’t know how long it’s been there or if it still is but I found it on street view.  One of the newer apartments complexes by the new hospital had lined the front of the road with queens a few years back. 

54BA0EA5-6DAA-43CC-B714-ECC3C18C1E04.png

Edited by Jtee
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1 hour ago, Jtee said:

I know those palms very well. I lived not too far from that Jack in the Box. Although I know they are suckers but the Washingtonias inbetween Starbucks and chicken express are large, I’ve watched them grow from little baby trees. 
 

 

Across the street from the old jack in the box on the other side of Seguin St is a small shopping center with about 6 or 7 medium sized Filifera in the flower beds. I planted all of those about 8-10 years ago by throwing seeds in their flower beds. I have done this in several locations. 

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3 hours ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

LOL...Queens selling at H-E-B in Leon Springs.  Spring has sprung!  Anyone feeling optimistic post freeze?

image.thumb.png.56e1847780126103095adf04dad2d3f5.png

image.thumb.png.00803e09c4e7a5960c97c79d770db608.png

I need palm ID's...First pic on the left:  Feather palm: What are the multi-trunks??  Are they clustering??  Are they a bunch of palms in a pot??

What is the rib leafed seedling???  Is it a sabal??  (I don't see a heel, but it doesn't look like a washy or trachy either)

Edited by PricklyPearSATC
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45 minutes ago, PricklyPearSATC said:

I need palm ID's...First pic on the left:  Feather palm: What are the multi-trunks??  Are they clustering??  Are they a bunch of palms in a pot??

What is the rib leafed seedling???  Is it a sabal??  (I don't see a heel, but it doesn't look like a washy or trachy either)

Queens and Pygmy Dates. Dont know why but for some reason the big nurseries throw in a bunch of Pygmy Date seeds into one pot and make a huge cluster when it is not necessary. Personally i would like to see a single one day at a big box store, probably wont happen though.
As for the rib leafed seedlings, Queens.

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Palms - 3 S. romanzoffiana, 2 W. bifurcata, 7 W. robusta, 3 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 P. roebelenii, 2 S. palmetto, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 A. merillii, 3 P. sylvestris

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47 minutes ago, PricklyPearSATC said:

I need palm ID's

Multi trunk pinnate palms are Phoenix roebelenii...single trunk palms with strap leaves are Syagrus romanzoffiana.  There may be a Ravenea rivularis in the back there too.

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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4 hours ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

LOL...Queens selling at H-E-B in Leon Springs.  Spring has sprung!  Anyone feeling optimistic post freeze?

image.thumb.png.56e1847780126103095adf04dad2d3f5.png

image.thumb.png.00803e09c4e7a5960c97c79d770db608.png

The pygmy date palms there are cheaper and better looking than at Wal-Mart.  Wal-Mart has them for $25 and they are starting to die.

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1 hour ago, JLM said:

Personally i would like to see a single one day at a big box store, probably wont happen though.

Keep looking, every once in a while it happens.  I got lucky last summer.  Not a single, but a large P. roebelenii about 2' of trunk with just 1 scrawny seedling next to it.  My guess is that it was originally a triple and one of the seedlings died and a second one was a bit of a runt so the large one got more nutrients and outgrew the runt.  It was a little sun-scorched and I got it for $5 at the blue big-box.  It's since recovered and just put in the ground over the weekend.   I guess they thought people wouldn't want it because it's not a triple!

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Jon Sunder

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7 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

Across the street from the old jack in the box on the other side of Seguin St is a small shopping center with about 6 or 7 medium sized Filifera in the flower beds. I planted all of those about 8-10 years ago by throwing seeds in their flower beds. I have done this in several locations. 

I wish they had a laughy emoji reaction. This is awesome!!

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I know of the queens at the Taco Cabana near the airport, you’re right 2011 was just too hard on them, the surviving palm had trunk damage, you could go push on the north side of the trunk and it was spongy, it was living on borrowed time. There are were some queens at a Victoria B&B near SAC that survived 2011 but again the trunks were damaged, they started to look really bad the past few years. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.440672,-98.4960445,3a,29.3y,171.89h,97.32t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sUCR7Vb5GslwDp_zBsJaWLA!2e0!5s20190301T000000!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en-us

This is not unique to TX, it happened in FL after the ‘80s and can occur in any humid climate that is prone to hard freezes. In July 2007 the queen palms in Rio Cuarto Argentina were damaged by an exceptional snow and freeze event. The damage is still apparent.

https://www.google.com/maps/@-33.1293732,-64.3410923,3a,43.9y,278.41h,107.71t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1soEVH0WO-aEJfvzMMMLqn-g!2e0!5s20140301T000000!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-us

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18 hours ago, richtrav said:

I know of the queens at the Taco Cabana near the airport, you’re right 2011 was just too hard on them, the surviving palm had trunk damage, you could go push on the north side of the trunk and it was spongy, it was living on borrowed time. There are were some queens at a Victoria B&B near SAC that survived 2011 but again the trunks were damaged, they started to look really bad the past few years. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.440672,-98.4960445,3a,29.3y,171.89h,97.32t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sUCR7Vb5GslwDp_zBsJaWLA!2e0!5s20190301T000000!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en-us

This is not unique to TX, it happened in FL after the ‘80s and can occur in any humid climate that is prone to hard freezes. In July 2007 the queen palms in Rio Cuarto Argentina were damaged by an exceptional snow and freeze event. The damage is still apparent.

https://www.google.com/maps/@-33.1293732,-64.3410923,3a,43.9y,278.41h,107.71t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1soEVH0WO-aEJfvzMMMLqn-g!2e0!5s20140301T000000!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en-us

What a cool boulevard of queen palms in Rio Cuarto, @richtrav.  Wow, yes you can really see the damage on some of those trunks while, interestingly, others look practically unscathed. It's hard for me to picture it snowing there.  I am seeing a jacaranda on that street, too.

Thank you for pointing out those queens near San Antonio College.  So far those and the King William, Southcross Taco Cabana, River Walk, and New Braunfels ones mentioned earlier in the thread have been the only ones cited as definite recent pre-2011 survivors in the area. 

Has anyone seen any of these over the last couple of weeks, or gotten a sense of whether any may be trying to stir back to life after this Feb 2021 Arctic blast?  I see richtrav struck through "are" and put "were some queens,..." so I am assuming that the ones near SAC may have already succumbed and/or been removed.

 

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  • 2 months later...

Finally see a queen Palm here in San Antonio that is sprouting new growth.  The one on the right shows a green petiole base so this one bears watching as well.

 

Do you think the one in the left is in the clear, or could it still fail?  Imagine from what others have written on other threads that there could be some trunk rot which could cause the trunk to collapse down the road.  Even so I was really impressed to see any regrowth!

 

For those in the area these trees are on Parland Place at the top of the hill next to Mahnke Park, the palms are on a south facing exposure but up on the hill we’re very exposed to ice, snow and frigid wind.  A nearby Aleppo Pine perished.

 

 

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On 3/9/2021 at 9:42 AM, mulungu said:

I hope so too... have my doubts as there wasn't any obvious green tissue visible at all.  But am glad to see that they didn't remove them right away and maybe will give them a chance to reveal whether they are dead or just stunned.

I drove by these Queen palms today and sadly they've been removed.  Given that at least one of the large Queens at the top of Mahnke Park has started to leaf back out, I was hopeful that these two near the Pearl would also survive, especially given the tight shelter they had near the building.  

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  • 7 months later...

I'm afraid all Queens in the SA area are toast. I'm not aware of any survivors. Each of the two Queen palms at the top of Mahnke park tried to leaf back out but they failed. 

Even down on the Texas Coast north of Corpus Christi I've found only one survivor (Rockport which got down to 18F).  In a few locations on the eastern side of Corpus Christi some survived, but overall it was a slaughter. 

Many new ones have since been planted, so we'll see how they make it through this winter. We've got one hell of an arctic front coming back later this week. Hoping it won't be so bad, but right now the forecast for San Antonio is looking to drop into the low 20's for a few consecutive nights with highs barely above freezing on Thursday and Friday. Freezing temps will reach way into South Texas, but so far appear to spare the RGV. There will be frost warnings there I'm sure with lows in the mid-30s.

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1 hour ago, ChrisA said:

I'm afraid all Queens in the SA area are toast. I'm not aware of any survivors. Each of the two Queen palms at the top of Mahnke park tried to leaf back out but they failed. 

Even down on the Texas Coast north of Corpus Christi I've found only one survivor (Rockport which got down to 18F).  In a few locations on the eastern side of Corpus Christi some survived, but overall it was a slaughter. 

Many new ones have since been planted, so we'll see how they make it through this winter. We've got one hell of an arctic front coming back later this week. Hoping it won't be so bad, but right now the forecast for San Antonio is looking to drop into the low 20's for a few consecutive nights with highs barely above freezing on Thursday and Friday. Freezing temps will reach way into South Texas, but so far appear to spare the RGV. There will be frost warnings there I'm sure with lows in the mid-30s.

Yes I am aware of that. I’ve been exploring on google earth trying to find queens in San Antonio from before the freeze. Obviously they are wiped out now but it is pretty cool to see that they actually can survive there semi long term. Past decade hasn’t brought a lot of mild winters and it seems there are plenty that lasted 15+ years 

Edited by DreaminAboutPalms
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I’ve seen a few replanted this year. They should make it through this freeze. As long as the lows stay in the low 20’s and don’t drop 5 extra degrees. I’ve seen some really big queens in San Antonio before that had been there a lot of years. I mean prior to 2011, they were all over the place. 

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On 2/7/2021 at 1:05 PM, GoatLockerGuns said:

These Queens are kind of famous around here, mainly because they are right off Broadway near The Pearl: https://goo.gl/maps/z8MWfB7tAyFUMT199.  Not sure how long they have been here, but I first noticed them in 2017.

image.thumb.jpeg.3f0907446507f84afc6506fc5326952b.jpeg

2014 they were installed 

Screen Shot 2022-02-01 at 11.00.29 AM.png

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Check out the one that used to live at 206 Adams St in King William. It's the largest one I knew of.  Google Street view will show it there in 2007 and having lost all fronds in 2011 but coming back strong.  It was gorgeous while it lasted.


Hopefully my little Queen will make it through this coming cold snap.  Do you all think I should cover it? Current forecast is now down to 22F Thursday night and 23F Friday night.

 

Here is the link to Google Maps' Street view:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/206+Adams+St,+San+Antonio,+TX+78210/@29.4103751,-98.4918446,3a,75y,51.58h,98.53t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sNrWe023b8odltTdoPIkScA!2e0!5s20190301T000000!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x865c58a44e7ef2c5:0x2911d0ae71351b6d!8m2!3d29.4104622!4d-98.4916348

 

Here is a photo I took on May 27, 2020. Not very good, but shows the size and number of fronds pretty well.

King William Queen Palm.jpg

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