Queen Palms in San Antonio

[GoatLockerGuns]

1 hour ago, ChrisA said:

Do you all think I should cover it?

@ChrisA, Forecast also calls for icy conditions.  Low 20s, wet, and possible ice....yes, I would cover it; particularly if it is small.  I have a potted one that I will be bringing in.

 

1 hour ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

2014 they were installed

@DreaminAboutPalms, All of the of the Queens I know of died after the 2021 freeze event.  I dove by these a few weeks ago, and they had been cut down.

On 1/18/2021 at 10:22 AM, GoatLockerGuns said:

Mature Syagrus romanzoffiana at a Taco Cabana on the southside.  Snapped this picture yesterday.  2347 E Southcross Blvd, San Antonio, TX 78223

All of the palms in front of this Taco Cabana on Southcross died as well, and the trunks were cut down (the Sagos survived though).

On 1/18/2021 at 12:28 PM, GoatLockerGuns said:

Also, mature Phoenix roebelenii (in previous picture) and Livistona chinensis (pictured below).

All but one of the Livistona chinensis there died as well.  The one that survived came back strong though, and was doing well a few weeks ago when I drove by (almost back to the condition pictured above).

On 1/26/2021 at 7:07 PM, GoatLockerGuns said:

Took this shot after my run this evening.  Northwest Bexar County.  Dude has a Queen right up beside his house (right side of front door).  Elevation approximately 1200 feet.  He has some Phoenix sp. with a decent trunk too (left side of front door), although it is hard to see with this drive-by picture.  Been there at least two years (that is when I first noticed it; could have been there longer).  Front of the house is Southwest facing.

This Queen in NW Bexar County died; however, the Phoenix sp. survived.  No protection that I am aware of on either (Sagos survived as well).

[NBTX11]

Queens in SA should live from this freeze, but may look ugly for a few months. Above 20 and they should be good to go. The more above 20, the better. They will spot and burn though. Possibly a lot. 

[ChrisA]

Thanks guys, I'll cover it up to protect it.  It is small, just planted in May from a 1 gallon.

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Found a long term queen in Austin that must have been put in prior to 2007 and lasted 14 years 

 

 

October 2007

March 2011 (took out second queen)

May 2018 (defoliated)

June 2019 (looking incredible)

February 2020 (looking good as well)

 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

This guy loves his queens. Had a really nice looking one prior to freeze and has since put in 3 new ones 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Old Pics 

[Collectorpalms]

Even in the heyday of warmth (1991-2010) and 2012-2021) there were very few queens in San Antonio. That or they just seemed overwhelmed by Washingtonia Filifera. I mean only 1 on the Riverwalk, and briefly some outside the Alamo RIP 2010/2011.
 

Houston was far and above the Texas Queen Capital up until 2018. 

I think it has to do with rainfall, and Houston Garden Centers always bringing in nice size Queens to Houston. Never thought I’d praise that place! I never bought a Queen I recall from there but I did buy a big Royal, longer than my truck from bumper to bumper. 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

3 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

Even in the heyday of warmth (1991-2010) and 2012-2021) there were very few queens in San Antonio. That or they just seemed overwhelmed by Washingtonia Filifera. I mean only 1 on the Riverwalk, and briefly some outside the Alamo RIP 2010/2011.
 

Houston was far and above the Texas Queen Capital up until 2018. 

I think it has to do with rainfall, and Houston Garden Centers always bringing in nice size Queens to Houston. Never thought I’d praise that place! I never bought a Queen I recall from there but I did buy a big Royal!

Seems like 2011 was a dose of reality for people planting them in central Texas, but the ones in SA/NB that survived up until last year looked pretty good. 

[NBTX11]

15 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

Even in the heyday of warmth (1991-2010) and 2012-2021) there were very few queens in San Antonio. That or they just seemed overwhelmed by Washingtonia Filifera. I mean only 1 on the Riverwalk, and briefly some outside the Alamo RIP 2010/2011.
 

Houston was far and above the Texas Queen Capital up until 2018. 

I think it has to do with rainfall, and Houston Garden Centers always bringing in nice size Queens to Houston. Never thought I’d praise that place! I never bought a Queen I recall from there but I did buy a big Royal, longer than my truck from bumper to bumper. 

Somewhat disagree. I used to see them fairly frequently in San Antonio back yards around 2010 and quite big ones too. New Braunfels had a decent number of big ones also. Not a lot but a decent amount. I remember one guy had like 10 big queens all over his yard. All slaughtered. 

[MarcusH]

Besides myself,  I saw some newly planted Queen palms planted in the ground . One of them can be found by the Riverwalk.  I'm aware of this palm tree's cold hardiness and it's just a matter of time when the cold takes it out.  One of my two will be replaced by a mule next spring.  They can look gorgeous but San Antonio isn't really a good place to grow Queens. 

[Robert Cade Ross]

Oof rip queens 

[Dwarf Fan]

5 hours ago, Robert Cade Ross said:

Oof rip queens 

I have scoured the city of Corpus Christi and surrounding Islands (N. Padre Island & Mustang Island) and only found TWO (Pre-Palmageddon’21) Queen survivors one has an absolutely insanely perfect position under a large old growth Oak that provides canopy protection from the Northern arctic blasts.

The other I feel is a genetic anomaly that I have collected seeds from and hope to sprout and study further.

BOTTOM LINE: Queens in San Antonio are NEVER gonna be a long term Palm if they are damn near impossible long term down here on the Gulf Coast in Corpus Christi in 9B. 

R. I. P. San Antonio Queens. 

[MarcusH]

6 hours ago, Dwarf Fan said:

I have scoured the city of Corpus Christi and surrounding Islands (N. Padre Island & Mustang Island) and only found TWO (Pre-Palmageddon’21) Queen survivors one has an absolutely insanely perfect position under a large old growth Oak that provides canopy protection from the Northern arctic blasts.

The other I feel is a genetic anomaly that I have collected seeds from and hope to sprout and study further.

BOTTOM LINE: Queens in San Antonio are NEVER gonna be a long term Palm if they are damn near impossible long term down here on the Gulf Coast in Corpus Christi in 9B. 

R. I. P. San Antonio Queens. 

Not just San Antonio.  Houston too. 

[Dwarf Fan]

9 hours ago, MarcusH said:

Not just San Antonio.  Houston too. 

^^^ Truth.

The Valley is the only place in Texas where Queens stand a chance long term.

 

 

[MarcusH]

11 hours ago, Dwarf Fan said:

^^^ Truth.

The Valley is the only place in Texas where Queens stand a chance long term.

 

 

I'm not going to disagree with you about that. You aren't getting more than 25 to 30 years out of a Queen palm ANYWHERE outside of the RGV area . "IF" the cold cycle keeps repeating you're lucky if it survives 5 years .  I personally wouldn't bother planting Queens in SA unless you protect it until it's impossible to protect it.  Houston has a better chance of growing Queens where maybe you can buy 5 more years of time ( compared to SA) but hands down they don't have a chance in Houston either if you're looking for a hardy palm .  People plant them all over again even here in SA.  

[NBTX11]

12 hours ago, Dwarf Fan said:

^^^ Truth.

The Valley is the only place in Texas where Queens stand a chance long term.

 

 

I personally saw several in Falfurrias TX, an hour north of the valley on US 281. They looked permanent there. 

[NBTX11]

19 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

I'm not going to disagree with you about that. You aren't getting more than 25 to 30 years out of a Queen palm ANYWHERE outside of the RGV area . "IF" the cold cycle keeps repeating you're lucky if it survives 5 years .  I personally wouldn't bother planting Queens in SA unless you protect it until it's impossible to protect it.  Houston has a better chance of growing Queens where maybe you can buy 5 more years of time ( compared to SA) but hands down they don't have a chance in Houston either if you're looking for a hardy palm .  People plant them all over again even here in SA.  

They made a lot more than 5 years prior to 2021. We had some quite long lived tall queen palms in New Braunfels that had been there decades (survived the 2011 freeze). 

[MarcusH]

30 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

They made a lot more than 5 years prior to 2021. We had some quite long lived tall queen palms in New Braunfels that had been there decades (survived the 2011 freeze). 

I said if we continue getting cold cycles like we see since 2021 we might get lucky if it survives 5 years.  I have seen the proof of old Queens in SA.  

[Xerarch]

On 9/19/2024 at 2:26 PM, Dwarf Fan said:

I have scoured the city of Corpus Christi and surrounding Islands (N. Padre Island & Mustang Island) and only found TWO (Pre-Palmageddon’21) Queen survivors one has an absolutely insanely perfect position under a large old growth Oak that provides canopy protection from the Northern arctic blasts.

The other I feel is a genetic anomaly that I have collected seeds from and hope to sprout and study further.

BOTTOM LINE: Queens in San Antonio are NEVER gonna be a long term Palm if they are damn near impossible long term down here on the Gulf Coast in Corpus Christi in 9B. 

R. I. P. San Antonio Queens. 

Here is a sampling of 2021 surviving queens here in Corpus. Not all these photos are great, some look better now than when I took the photo, and there are more nice ones I haven’t chance the chance to photograph. 
 

[Dwarf Fan]

19 hours ago, Xerarch said:

Here is a sampling of 2021 surviving queens here in Corpus. Not all these photos are great, some look better now than when I took the photo, and there are more nice ones I haven’t chance the chance to photograph. 
 

Xerarch I may have been exaggerating a bit but almost all the examples you posted are huddled super close to structures or surrounded by apartment buildings (the ones next the probably heated pool made me chuckle) let’s be honest way more Queens died in Corpus that are currently here that were planted before the freeze would that be accurate to say? 

Oh BTW that last pic is the one I was talking about that I got seeds from (I knocked on the door and asked the owners permission first) because it was the ONLY Queen I noticed that was actually not huddled next to a massive structure or had some sort of canopy protection.

That LAST Queen (Williams Dr) pic that you posted I do think is something special, an anomaly, if you go back on Google maps there were originally 2 Queens in that man’s front yard but the LARGER one died after Palmageddon’21, yet for some unknown reason, (I believed the smaller palm won the gene lottery and ended up with cold hardier genetics) the smaller one survived with no protection. Hopefully if I can get around to trying a second time to get the seeds to sprout I would love to put to the test. Stay tuned.

 

April 2019

March 2023

 

[Fusca]

1 hour ago, Dwarf Fan said:

Xerarch I may have been exaggerating a bit but almost all the examples you posted are huddled super close to structures or surrounded by apartment buildings (the ones next the probably heated pool made me chuckle) let’s be honest way more Queens died in Corpus that are currently here that were planted before the freeze would that be accurate to say?

Yes, I would say so!  I understand y'all's point regarding the loss of Syagrus romanzoffiana in South Texas from the recent cold events but come on!  Stating that they are not long term palms outside of the RGV is quite a stretch.  Seems that the definition of "long term" should be made clear as well.  30+ years.  I have no argument that they're not "bulletproof" palms for Houston and San Antonio but that doesn't make me discourage anyone from planting one there.  The one I planted there survived 20°F with no damage in January 2018 (protected - first winter in ground) and 19°F in January 2022 unprotected with some damage.  Half of the freeze damage reports on this forum show survivors at temperatures below 20°F (not including mine).  Shows what can work for people who take care of their palms (most in Texas do not provide protection) and the dangerous winter lows are typically just one night and not multiple times in a season.

Why does it matter if the ones in Corpus that @Xerarch posted were planted close to a house?  That's wise planting for marginal palms.  And the pool reference?  Do you really think that pool is heated in Corpus for 6 weeks of cold per year?  I haven't encountered a heated pool in 24 years of living here.  Even if it were heated I doubt that it would make much difference, especially from cold winds that are typical with the polar vortex.

[Dwarf Fan]

2 hours ago, Fusca said:

Yes, I would say so!  I understand y'all's point regarding the loss of Syagrus romanzoffiana in South Texas from the recent cold events but come on!  Stating that they are not long term palms outside of the RGV is quite a stretch.  Seems that the definition of "long term" should be made clear as well.  30+ years.  I have no argument that they're not "bulletproof" palms for Houston and San Antonio but that doesn't make me discourage anyone from planting one there.  The one I planted there survived 20°F with no damage in January 2018 (protected - first winter in ground) and 19°F in January 2022 unprotected with some damage.  Half of the freeze damage reports on this forum show survivors at temperatures below 20°F (not including mine).  Shows what can work for people who take care of their palms (most in Texas do not provide protection) and the dangerous winter lows are typically just one night and not multiple times in a season.

Why does it matter if the ones in Corpus that @Xerarch posted were planted close to a house?  That's wise planting for marginal palms.  And the pool reference?  Do you really think that pool is heated in Corpus for 6 weeks of cold per year?  I haven't encountered a heated pool in 24 years of living here.  Even if it were heated I doubt that it would make much difference, especially from cold winds that are typical with the polar vortex.

Queens not being bulletproof for San Antonio or Houston was my big takeaway.

The numbers of dead Queens vs. survivors in Corpus for me is also a sign that they are not bulletproof for my sensibilities, I know Xenon is much more adventurous with Zone pushing, but I am much more to the opposite. If I am going to end up with a telephone pole after investing 20-30 years into a palm for me that would be extremely disappointing to me. I understand the argument that you get to “enjoy it” until the next extreme winter weather event hits but after hearing my neighbor cry over the beautiful Queens that he used to have by his pool and how sad he is now that they are gone, why would I tell him:

“Sure re-plant some more Queens in Corpus Christi they will probably die again and you will be heartbroken, yet again, but it might take a while… or it might not”.

^^^ NOT COOL.

Normal people are NOT Palm Nuts like us and they don’t think in terms of “zone pushing” as is so commonly promoted on this forum.

All structures provide some level of protection, especially if the palms are planted on the southern face of the structure and the pool would still be heated from the daytime heat that it trapped and radiated back up at the palms creating yet another microclimate. Almost every SINGLE survivor Queen Xerarch posted has some type of visible microclimate captured in the pic. The few that don’t could be chalked up to genetically being just a bit more cold hardy.
 

The vast majority of those pics are not making the case that Queens are at all reliable in Corpus Christi, quite the opposite actually. People are free to plant whatever they wish but I will continue to advise my neighbors to not bother with Queens on N. Padre Island as their cold hardiness is too much of a gamble long term.

[Xerarch]

5 hours ago, Dwarf Fan said:

way more Queens died in Corpus that are currently here that were planted before the freeze would that be accurate to say? 

 

For sure, the vast majority of queens here died in ‘21, and that is a really tough pill to swallow, but it happened. It wasn’t a slate-wiping event though, there are a number of notable survivors as I’ve shown, and yes, many of them got a little bonus for some structure. There are still a number completely in the open also, a few I’ve posted, some others I haven’t. But most of the survivors have some added visible advantage like being close to a structure that blocked that terrible wind.
 

Remember that a lot queens died in Central Florida in the freezes of the 80’s, it can happen there too. What you plant is all about your risk tolerance. If you really want to be extra safe in Orlando, plant Sabals. But most people there wouldn’t worry about planting queens because it hasn’t been cold enough to kill them since the 80’s. Here in Corpus I have a couple queens and I’m really not that worried about them croaking any time soon, but I accept that’s it’s possible. To offset the potential destruction of a bad year I have a few mules and some other hardier things. I also have some real tropicals to enjoy for as long as they last. 

[Xerarch]

5 hours ago, Dwarf Fan said:

That LAST Queen (Williams Dr) pic that you posted I do think is something special, an anomaly, if you go back on Google maps there were originally 2 Queens in that man’s front yard but the LARGER one died after Palmageddon’21, yet for some unknown reason, (I believed the smaller palm won the gene lottery and ended up with cold hardier genetics) the smaller one survived with no protection. Hopefully if I can get around to trying a second time to get the seeds to sprout I would love to put to the test. Stay tuned.

 

April 2019

March 2023

 

Interestingly, that other queen next to the surviving one almost survived also. It had regrown significantly post-freeze and was looking to make a full recovery, but then it declined and died. Must have got some rot going inside the trunk that ended up taking over. Actually I saw that happen all over town, there were a lot of queens that had promising regrowth, but then died anyway. 

[Fusca]

3 hours ago, Dwarf Fan said:

All structures provide some level of protection, especially if the palms are planted on the southern face of the structure...

I will continue to advise my neighbors to not bother with Queens on N. Padre Island as their cold hardiness is too much of a gamble long term.

This logic baffles me.  According to the NOAA weather data I have seen, the only time the low temperature went below 20°F in Corpus Christi in the past 35 years was in February 2021 (happened twice).  And those temperatures are for the airport and not Padre Island where it's typically a bit warmer.  So you must believe that the "new normal" is that winter temperatures will drop below 20°F on Padre Island every decade or two.  Why not just advise folks to plant their queens on the south side of their house - don't all residential lots have structures providing some level of protection?

Agreed, most folks aren't palm nuts but the majority on Palmtalk are.  What should be considered about queen palms is their need for water and fertilizer which non-palm nuts aren't likely to provide.  That's why so many palm nuts in California complain about them looking horrible and why do many didn't survive here in 2021.  But when they're planted in good soil, irrigated sufficiently and fed regularly they have an excellent chance of surviving 19°F temperatures.  Not guaranteed but better chance than palms left to fend for themselves.

[Dwarf Fan]

3 hours ago, Fusca said:

This logic baffles me.  According to the NOAA weather data I have seen, the only time the low temperature went below 20°F in Corpus Christi in the past 35 years was in February 2021 (happened twice).  And those temperatures are for the airport and not Padre Island where it's typically a bit warmer.  So you must believe that the "new normal" is that winter temperatures will drop below 20°F on Padre Island every decade or two.  Why not just advise folks to plant their queens on the south side of their house - don't all residential lots have structures providing some level of protection?

Agreed, most folks aren't palm nuts but the majority on Palmtalk are.  What should be considered about queen palms is their need for water and fertilizer which non-palm nuts aren't likely to provide.  That's why so many palm nuts in California complain about them looking horrible and why do many didn't survive here in 2021.  But when they're planted in good soil, irrigated sufficiently and fed regularly they have an excellent chance of surviving 19°F temperatures.  Not guaranteed but better chance than palms left to fend for themselves.

Definitely NOT a man made climate change or global warming believer.

I also do not believe that weather patterns are predictable, no one really knows when we will get another extreme cold event. All I know is if we just had a 19F low why could we not see that or even 18F again in 5-7 years?  

Look at the ultimate lows from NOAA pic below.

Not something I would feel very confident betting against.

Although I do have a few zone pushers but in my collection they are not in prime positions those are held by more bulletproof palms. 

Also, look at the proximity to structure on most of the single family home pics, notice a pattern?

I definitely agree on your last point though, from what I have seen god soil and well cared for palms absolutely can bounce back from damage faster than ones that are neglected, already struggling or slow growing.

https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/corpus-christi/lowest-temperatures

[Fusca]

12 hours ago, Dwarf Fan said:

I also do not believe that weather patterns are predictable, no one really knows when we will get another extreme cold event. All I know is if we just had a 19F low why could we not see that or even 18F again in 5-7 years?  

Look at the ultimate lows from NOAA pic below.

I agree with you, those low extreme temps could happen again and who knows when.  But what is the likelihood?  Examining the data shows that it's rare - those extreme lows are outliers in the data.  Would you make the same conclusion for Ocala, FL - queen palms are not long term palms there?  They have experienced lower extreme lows than Corpus.

https://www.extremeweatherwatch.com/cities/ocala/lowest-temperatures

Corpus had 2 times below 20°F in past 35 years (both in 2021), 14 times since 1948 ultimate low of 13°F since 1948.

Ocala had 0 times below 20°F in past 35 years, 13 times since 1948 ultimate low of 11°F since 1948.

Very similar numbers.  Your fear of another freakish freeze is based on the recent one - it's understandable.  I don't think that you would have felt this way in 2020 after 33 consecutive years staying above 20°.  If anything Ocala is overdue with currently 35 consecutive years.  No one there is considering queen palms to be a short term palm.

[MarcusH]

20 hours ago, Fusca said:

This logic baffles me.  According to the NOAA weather data I have seen, the only time the low temperature went below 20°F in Corpus Christi in the past 35 years was in February 2021 (happened twice).  And those temperatures are for the airport and not Padre Island where it's typically a bit warmer.  So you must believe that the "new normal" is that winter temperatures will drop below 20°F on Padre Island every decade or two.  Why not just advise folks to plant their queens on the south side of their house - don't all residential lots have structures providing some level of protection?

Agreed, most folks aren't palm nuts but the majority on Palmtalk are.  What should be considered about queen palms is their need for water and fertilizer which non-palm nuts aren't likely to provide.  That's why so many palm nuts in California complain about them looking horrible and why do many didn't survive here in 2021.  But when they're planted in good soil, irrigated sufficiently and fed regularly they have an excellent chance of surviving 19°F temperatures.  Not guaranteed but better chance than palms left to fend for themselves.

We keep going back and forth with this talk about Queen palms in Texas for quite some time.  I don't even know why you guys have such a hard time admitting that Queen palms aren't hardy outside of the RGV.  They aren't even hardy in Laredo . 

If someone here in San Antonio,  Corpus, Galveston ,  Houston etc wants to plant a bullet proof palm without any worries that only dies by natural cause ( pest incl) not by a freeze, a palm that lasts a century at least,would you recommend that person to grow a Queen palm ? ? ? Show me a Queen palm that's older than 30+ years outside of the RGV.  I'm waiting. 

 

[Fusca]

3 hours ago, MarcusH said:

We keep going back and forth with this talk about Queen palms in Texas for quite some time.  I don't even know why you guys have such a hard time admitting that Queen palms aren't hardy outside of the RGV.  They aren't even hardy in Laredo . 

If someone here in San Antonio,  Corpus, Galveston ,  Houston etc wants to plant a bullet proof palm without any worries that only dies by natural cause ( pest incl) not by a freeze, a palm that lasts a century at least,would you recommend that person to grow a Queen palm ? ? ? 

I have never stated that queen palms are bulletproof outside of the RGV - they are not.  I have a hard time understanding why someone in zone 9b should be discouraged from planting one if they want to!  And I don't understand why someone would outright declare in all capital letters that a queen palm planted in a 9b zone will die in less than 20 years without knowing what the future weather will be.  I'm tired of this discussion also.  You obviously won't plant a palm unless your great grandchildren can enjoy it when you're long gone.  That's fine for you but it's not what everyone has in mind.  Deal with it!  The vast majority of members here do zone-push and many are quite pleased with it.  This includes knowing microclimates on their property and providing protection when needed.  And people wonder why some say that palms can't grow in Texas (because they have the same expectations as you do)!

The only reason I cannot show you a 30 year old queen palm outside of the RGV in Texas is because of 2021.  There are plenty in zone 9b Central Florida and possibly North Florida (if they haven't been blown down from hurricanes, struck down by lightning or succumbed to fusarium wilt).  But they're likely to have a 2021-type event as well which they have avoided since the 1980's.  I don't see you complaining about how people shouldn't plant queens there.  Go plant your Sabal palms and be happy.

[MarcusH]

3 hours ago, Fusca said:

I have never stated that queen palms are bulletproof outside of the RGV - they are not.  I have a hard time understanding why someone in zone 9b should be discouraged from planting one if they want to!  And I don't understand why someone would outright declare in all capital letters that a queen palm planted in a 9b zone will die in less than 20 years without knowing what the future weather will be.  I'm tired of this discussion also.  You obviously won't plant a palm unless your great grandchildren can enjoy it when you're long gone.  That's fine for you but it's not what everyone has in mind.  Deal with it!  The vast majority of members here do zone-push and many are quite pleased with it.  This includes knowing microclimates on their property and providing protection when needed.  And people wonder why some say that palms can't grow in Texas (because they have the same expectations as you do)!

The only reason I cannot show you a 30 year old queen palm outside of the RGV in Texas is because of 2021.  There are plenty in zone 9b Central Florida and possibly North Florida (if they haven't been blown down from hurricanes, struck down by lightning or succumbed to fusarium wilt).  But they're likely to have a 2021-type event as well which they have avoided since the 1980's.  I don't see you complaining about how people shouldn't plant queens there.  Go plant your Sabal palms and be happy.

I'm not taking about Florida!!! Cities like Tampa and Orlando in CenFlo only had record lows of 18F and 19F in the 1980s so they don't even play in the same ballpark as we do. We were in single digits ! The last few years after 2021 weren't so convincing to grow a Queen either. The vast majority of Floridians live near the coast . I definitely consider Queens not hardy in North Florida.  Will a 2021 event whip out zone pushed palms?  I'm sure they will . 

I also doubt that you talked to 1000s of different members here on palmtalk about zone pushing .  I was encouraged by planting Queen palms when I first became a member.  I wish I would have never listened.  Digging out rootballs with a shovel isn't something I enjoy to be honest.  Imagine the hard work or money to cut down a 20 foot palm.  As you can see there're still many dead palm trees in Texas more than 3 yrs after the freeze.  Well let's keep those ugly telephone poles for the birds right ? 

 

[ChrisA]

So here are three Queens planted in Alamo Heights in 2022 as fairly large sized palms.  Each were wrapped with heat tape and tarp for the first winter (‘22-‘23) and had green fronds to start the 2023 growing season. Last winter they received no protection that I saw during the freeze in January that went down to 17F. All three survived in spite of all fronds being killed. Obviously these are yearning for some better care and are looking pretty rough but hopefully they will have a gentle winter and get some much needed water and nutrients.

Cheers!

 

[MarcusH]

That's impressive! Mine got toasted this winter after it got cold down to about 18 plus, minus a degree on the NE .  They were still young , way smaller than the ones on the picture you've posted. I guess once you get those Queens to grow to a certain age they'll be able to cope with temperatures slightly below 20s for the most part.  It's all in their genetics.  I see quite a few new Queens planted in and around SA

[SeanK]

On 9/20/2024 at 10:09 PM, Xerarch said:

Here is a sampling of 2021 surviving queens here in Corpus. Not all these photos are great, some look better now than when I took the photo, and there are more nice ones I haven’t chance the chance to photograph. 
 

Nice first photo with a mix. Looks like Livistonas with the Queens.

[jwitt]

35 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

That's impressive! Mine got toasted this winter after it got cold down to about 18 plus, minus a degree on the NE .  They were still young , way smaller than the ones on the picture you've posted. I guess once you get those Queens to grow to a certain age they'll be able to cope with temperatures slightly below 20s for the most part.  It's all in their genetics.  I see quite a few new Queens planted in and around SA

@MarcusH While genetics may be partly responsible, I personally note the large masonry structure(wall) very close. 

Thermal mass is your friend!

[MarcusH]

2 hours ago, jwitt said:

@MarcusH While genetics may be partly responsible, I personally note the large masonry structure(wall) very close. 

Thermal mass is your friend!

Very true. So Jim , what do you think how many degrees are we increasing during a cold spell?  I always wondered 

[jwitt]

13 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Very true. So Jim , what do you think how many degrees are we increasing during a cold spell?  I always wondered 

I cannot answer that.  But that wall will never be as cold as the ambient air temperature.  Even the warmth from the ground is emanating up and thru the wall.  

I don't even need to mention sunshine on the wall.

If the mass like a foundation affords.half a zone,  that is five degrees, a full zone zone, ten degrees. 

Heat is also transferred thru radiation, often overlooked when dealing with thermal mass.  Think of walking by a red hot charcoal grill, but happening on a ten degree night with a 25 degree wall. 

[Calosphace]

Yeah if one is deadset on a green feather palm I would say you are better off getting a Mule palm under Live oak canopy. Slower growing so it should remain under canopy longer and to me they have a nicer form and are neater. Hardy bamboo palm is another option under canopy and to me they look more tropical than Queens with their deeper emerald foliage and showy red fruit I have no idea why they are so rarely sold

Easy for me to say though because I don't like Queens (would like them in habitat but to me in the landscape they have a connotation of "overpriced cookie cutter new build neighborhood" as they are omnipresent in Florida for that reason)

[Xerarch]

9 hours ago, SeanK said:

Nice first photo with a mix. Looks like Livistonas with the Queens.

Yes, a number of nice L. chinensis on that property. Here is a pair there that are pretty tall given their slow growth. 

[Rain52]

Been lucky here on the first coast Jax, Neptune and Atlantic beaches. We r the same latitude as the Austin area, but get some protection from the Atlantic Ocean.  Queens are over planted here. Last lethal freeze was is 1989 18 at my house and a number of mature queens survived then and still remain .