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Queen Palms in San Antonio


ChrisA
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On 1/22/2021 at 1:46 PM, GoatLockerGuns said:

 

I have seen Washingtonia robusta, Livistona chinensis, Syagrus romanzoffiana, Phoenix canariensis, Phoenix roebelenii, Sabal palmetto, Chamaerops humilis, and Trachycarpus fortunei at various Taco Cabanas in San Antonio.  I have seen Washingtonia robusta, Sabal palmetto, and Butia odorata (281 north of 1604) at In-N-Outs in San Antonio.  All were mature specimens.  The Pappadoux on I-10W has a nice selection of palms around the building, including Phoenix dactylifera.  Speaking of which, they recently planted a bunch of mature Phoenix dactylifera at the RIM (mostly in the apartments area, but some also near the new Southerleigh Restaurant at the RIM).  Ultravision (Dr. Tomy Starck) is trying to grow two juvenile Bismarckia nobilis off I-10W just outside 1604.  This is Dr. Starck's second attempt at young Bismarckia nobilis (his first two died after an overnight wet freeze we had during the 2016/2017 winter).  Ultravision wrapped up their two new Bismarckia nobilis during the temperature drop a couple of weeks ago, so I guess they wised up (or their landscape guy did); here are some shots of one of their juvenile Bismarckia nobilis I took earlier this month:

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I'd figure the dominion area would be too cold, but the air turbulence coming off I10 might keep it warm.

Where off of 281 did you see the Butia? I'll have be on the lookout next time I go to San Antonio.

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19 minutes ago, amh said:

I'd figure the dominion area would be too cold, but the air turbulence coming off I10 might keep it warm.

I don't think it could make it without human intervention/help during wet freezes.  I live nearby at just over 1300 feet elevation, and I would not plant one in the ground at that size.  I believe @Fuscahas one of similar size in the ground, but he is further south and lower in elevation.

19 minutes ago, amh said:

Where off of 281 did you see the Butia? I'll have be on the lookout next time I go to San Antonio.

At the In-N-Out in Stone Oak (In-N-Out Stone Oak).  It's the only In-N-Out I have ever seen with Butias, usually Washingtonias.  A lot of people have Butias planted in San Antonio though.  They sell juveniles at most nurseries.  Not as popular as Washingtonias or Sabals, but I have seen quite a few around.

Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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3 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

I don't think it could make it without human intervention/help during wet freezes.  I live nearby at just over 1300 feet elevation, and I would not plant one in the ground at that size.  I believe @Fuscahas one of similar size in the ground, but he is further south and lower in elevation.

I'm familiar with that area and wouldn't plant a Bismarckia there, but maybe on the southwest or south side of San Antonio.

6 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

At the In-N-Out in Stone Oak (In-N-Out Stone Oak).  It's the only In-N-Out I have ever seen with Butias, usually Washingtonias.  I a lot of people have Butias planted in San Antonio though.  They sell juveniles at most nurseries.  Not as popular as Washingtonias or Sabals, but I have seen quite a few around.

I see the Butias for sell, but I just dont think they would survive my area.

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1 hour ago, amh said:

I'm familiar with that area and wouldn't plant a Bismarckia there, but maybe on the southwest or south side of San Antonio.

I see the Butias for sell, but I just dont think they would survive my area.

Butia will survive anywhere around San Antonio.  They might die to other reasons such as soil, nutrients, etc, but cold won't do any in.  There is like a 20 foot tall ancient one around where I am.

Your list of fool proof 30 plus year palms for SA is Washingtonia Filifera, Washingtonia Hybrid (including some Robust-ish ones), Sabal Palmetto, Sabal Mexicana, Trachycarpus species, Chamaerops Humilis,  Butia Capitata, Phoenix Canariensis, and a few others.  Those are the ones off the top of my head.   Your number one fast growing long term palm is Filifera and Hybrids.  There's like 80 year old ones, maybe older, around town.  You can plant pure Robusta but an 80's freeze might get you.  I have a Robusta in my yard that I planted 17 years ago and it's like 40 feet tall, maybe more.

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32 minutes ago, syersj said:

Butia will survive anywhere around San Antonio.  They might die to other reasons such as soil, nutrients, etc, but cold won't do any in.  There is like a 20 foot tall ancient one around where I am.

Your list of fool proof 30 plus year palms for SA is Washingtonia Filifera, Washingtonia Hybrid (including some Robust-ish ones), Sabal Palmetto, Sabal Mexicana, Trachycarpus species, Chamaerops Humilis,  Butia Capitata, Phoenix Canariensis, and a few others.  Those are the ones off the top of my head.   Your number one fast growing long term palm is Filifera and Hybrids.  There's like 80 year old ones, maybe older, around town.  You can plant pure Robusta but an 80's freeze might get you.  I have a Robusta in my yard that I planted 17 years ago and it's like 40 feet tall, maybe more.

I get down to 13F most years and below 10F more than once a decade, do you think Butia species would survive?

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1 hour ago, amh said:

I get down to 13F most years and below 10F more than once a decade, do you think Butia species would survive?

Where are you?  San Antonio hasn't dropped to 13 degrees in well over 30 years.  The coldest has been 16 and 19 in 2010 and 2011 respectively.  I mean maybe somewhere like Kerrville or Fredericksburg is dropping to 13, but even those cities I don't think are dropping below 20 most years.  Are you in a cold valley or something?  Butia should be fine in all of Bexar county.  The only possible exception might be the extreme, and I mean extreme NW hill country side, and even then I think they are 98% fine, but am being really generous that they might be harmed.  Many years inside Loop 410 barely drops to 30F all winter.  The lowest it has dropped to in San Antonio this winter has been 28 on Dec 1st at the SA airport on the north side.  I doubt it dropped below 30 or 31 downtown.  And since we are almost in Feb, that might be it all winter.

 

 

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1 minute ago, syersj said:

Where are you?  San Antonio hasn't dropped to 13 degrees in well over 30 years.  The coldest has been 16 and 19 in 2010 and 2011 respectively.  I mean maybe somewhere like Kerrville or Fredericksburg is dropping to 13, but even those cities I don't think are dropping below 20 most years.  Are you in a cold valley or something?

Same county as you.

There is a huge temperature variation throughout the region, I've already been to 18F this mild winter and February and March are usually more extreme.

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32 minutes ago, amh said:

Same county as you.

There is a huge temperature variation throughout the region, I've already been to 18F this mild winter and February and March are usually more extreme.

I live in the City of New Braunfels right along the I35 heat island.  In fact I can hear I35 traffic now.  I doubt I have dropped below 26 or 27.   I have a 40 foot pure Robusta in my yard that has never been damaged at all.  It was 1 foot tall when I planted it 17 years ago.

Edit:  I just checked the NWS low for New Braunfels this winter and it is also 28 degrees on Dec 1st at the NB airport, and the airport is in a colder location than I am at, so if your numbers are accurate, you are dropping at least 10 degrees below what I am.  I knew there was a variation, but I didn't realize it was that big of a spread.

If I remember, I will try to snap a photo of the ancient Butia a little ways away from me in an established older neighborhood. 

 

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58 minutes ago, syersj said:

I live in the City of New Braunfels right along the I35 heat island.  In fact I can hear I35 traffic now.  I doubt I have dropped below 26 or 27.   I have a 40 foot pure Robusta in my yard that has never been damaged at all.  It was 1 foot tall when I planted it 17 years ago.

Edit:  I just checked the NWS low for New Braunfels this winter and it is also 28 degrees on Dec 1st at the NB airport, and the airport is in a colder location than I am at, so if your numbers are accurate, you are dropping at least 10 degrees below what I am.  I knew there was a variation, but I didn't realize it was that big of a spread.

If I remember, I will try to snap a photo of the ancient Butia a little ways away from me in an established older neighborhood. 

 

There's a huge variation in the dry hilly areas, just look at the weather stations around Boerne on a normal year. My region is colder than New Braunfels, but my rule of thumb is subtract 10 degrees from the forecast low, although this year has had a surprising amount on night time clouds and wind.

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21 minutes ago, amh said:

There's a huge variation in the dry hilly areas, just look at the weather stations around Boerne on a normal year. My region is colder than New Braunfels, but my rule of thumb is subtract 10 degrees from the forecast low, although this year has had a surprising amount on night time clouds and wind.

Even at your cold location, I am 100% certain that W. Filifera is long term viable for you.  I have seen 50+ year old Filifera as far north as Killeen Texas., and there are possibly others further north.  Those are just what I have personally seen.  

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6 minutes ago, syersj said:

Even at your cold location, I am 100% certain that W. Filifera is long term viable for you.  I have seen 50+ year old Filifera as far north as Killeen Texas., and there are possibly others further north.  Those are just what I have personally seen.  

I'll be planting some this spring.

The cold is generally radiative so its usually not too wet.

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6 minutes ago, amh said:

I'll be planting some this spring.

They are super easy to grow from seed.  I have a 25 footer in my yard that has a massive fat trunk.  I also have about a 10 foot tall one that I grew from seed.

I planted a bunch around New Braunfels by simply throwing out seed in public flower beds.  The McDonalds on 46 and I35 had a 15 foot tall Filifera that I planted by simply tossing some seeds in their flower bed.  That is until they cut it down about 2 weeks ago due to renovations.  There's like 8 of them around the old jack in the box on Seguin St that I planted and some of them are huge now.

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8 minutes ago, syersj said:

They are super easy to grow from seed.  I have a 25 footer in my yard that has a massive fat trunk.  I also have about a 10 foot tall one that I grew from seed.

I planted a bunch around New Braunfels by simply throwing out seed in public flower beds.  The McDonalds on 46 and I35 had a 15 foot tall Filifera that I planted by simply tossing some seeds in their flower bed.  That is until they cut it down about 2 weeks ago due to renovations.  There's like 8 of them around the old jack in the box on Seguin St that I planted and some of them are huge now.

I'll keep an eye out for these.

I have some year old seedling in pots right now, but at least 3 will be planted in the spring.

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2 hours ago, syersj said:

Butia should be fine in all of Bexar county.

James, nice seeing you posting on here again!  I agree from a temperature standpoint.  I had one Butia that really struggled with my alkaline soil.  I dug it up, put in a container with some different soil and gave it to a neighbor.  It looked tons better for him and he keeps it in the container.  I'm on the west side off US 90 near Loop 1604.  So far this winter the low at my house has been 30° and 26° the past 2 winters.  My low temps here seem to correlate with downtown.

Jon Sunder

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1 hour ago, Fusca said:

James, nice seeing you posting on here again!  I agree from a temperature standpoint.  I had one Butia that really struggled with my alkaline soil.  I dug it up, put in a container with some different soil and gave it to a neighbor.  It looked tons better for him and he keeps it in the container.  I'm on the west side off US 90 near Loop 1604.  So far this winter the low at my house has been 30° and 26° the past 2 winters.  My low temps here seem to correlate with downtown.

Same.  I've had poor luck with Butia in the past.  Languished in the soil, even in winters that hardly dropped below 30, so I knew cold had nothing to do with it.  If I had to try again, I would try a Butia Hybrid with Syagrus.  I had a fairly large queen palm that made it a number of years but bit the dust in either the 2010 or 11 freeze.  I had a neighbor that had like 7 or 8 HUGE queen palms and 5 or 6 of them died in 10/11 freezes.  A couple of them survived and recovered, but then a new homeowner came in a couple years later and ripped out the remaining ones.

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6 hours ago, amh said:
6 hours ago, syersj said:

Butia will survive anywhere around San Antonio.  They might die to other reasons such as soil, nutrients, etc, but cold won't do any in.  There is like a 20 foot tall ancient one around where I am.

Your list of fool proof 30 plus year palms for SA is Washingtonia Filifera, Washingtonia Hybrid (including some Robust-ish ones), Sabal Palmetto, Sabal Mexicana, Trachycarpus species, Chamaerops Humilis,  Butia Capitata, Phoenix Canariensis, and a few others.  Those are the ones off the top of my head.   Your number one fast growing long term palm is Filifera and Hybrids.  There's like 80 year old ones, maybe older, around town.  You can plant pure Robusta but an 80's freeze might get you.  I have a Robusta in my yard that I planted 17 years ago and it's like 40 feet tall, maybe more.

I get down to 13F most years and below 10F more than once a decade, do you think Butia species would survive?

I used to live in the same county as both of you and had a Butia.  It saw a low of 12 degrees once and several lows to 14 and 15 F (not every year, though).  It tolerated these temps fine in a south-facing spot.  However,  when these low temps came with ice or snow in the crown, it would temporarily lose spear and put out a new one a couple of months later.  Not sure how it would handle below 10F, that may be pushing it. Here it was in the 2010-11  winter, when it snowed.

PICT0594.thumb.JPG.43c47b3b12b4c6812df6d9cd9fac7e87.JPG

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14 hours ago, amh said:

There's a huge variation in the dry hilly areas, just look at the weather stations around Boerne on a normal year. My region is colder than New Braunfels, but my rule of thumb is subtract 10 degrees from the forecast low, although this year has had a surprising amount on night time clouds and wind.

Concur with @syersjon his bullet proof palm list for the greater San Antonio metro area, at least for planting mature specimens.  I would say there is a slightly higher risk for juveniles of the same species inside the 1604 loop.  Northwest and North of San Antonio, particularly in the Hill Country, is a different matter tough.  Mature specimens should still be fine, but the risk of death due to freezing is elevated.  For juveniles (less than three feet tall with little to no trunk), I would say the risk of spear pull and/or death during wet cold snaps increases to moderate/high.  I live in northwest Bexar County outside the 1604 and south of I-10 at over 1300 feet.  I have seen spear pull AND death on juvenile (less than 3 feet tall) Phoenix canariensis and Washingtonia robusta planted in the ground during wet overnight cold snaps (to include freezing rain) that got down to the low 20s and upper teens (F).  I have seen spear pull (but eventual recovery) on juvenile (less than 3 feet tall) Washingtonia filifera, Brahea sp. "Super Silver," and Trachycarpus fortunei (that's right, I said "Trachycarpus fortunei") during those same conditions.  I think you would be at low risk of cold death for mature Washingtonia filifera and Butia odorata in your area.  If you are going to spend money on them, then I think your risk/reward calculation would be weighted toward buying them and trying them out.  I would not be so confident with juvenile specimens of ANY palms in your area, and you may need to protect them until they get some good trunk on them.  I experiment with planting juveniles on my property because I have grown them all from seed, and there is no real cost (or more importantly, monetary loss ) involved.  If I was paying good money for a palm to plant on my property though, I would pick one with a solid rating of Zone 8b or below.

Also, I can attest that micro climates are a real thing in the Hill County as you stated.  I have noticed that ridge lines are typically a little warmer than the valleys in the winter (I am sure there is a meteorological or atmospheric reason for this, or maybe the old adage "heat rises" applies).  I have seen up to 5 degree (F) temperature drops when driving from the top of my hill to the bottom (a roughly 200 foot drop).  Take advantage of buildings, rock walls, terrain, live oak canopies, etc. when placing your palms.  They will provide some additional protection.  Planting juvenile palms in open areas, especially on the side of hills, can be problematic in the Hill Country.  We get 20+ mph winds, with gusts at 40+ mph, on a routine basis.

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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amh, 

Here is an example of a large Butia in New Braunfels.  Sorry about the poor quality, it was super foggy this morning and the photo came out terrible.  If I have the chance, I will take some photos of some mature Phoenix Canariensis around town.  I spotted this Butia like 15-20 years ago and it was basically the same size then.  Don't know exactly how old it is, but it's old.

Butia.jpg

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Here's my W. Robusta.  Person for scale in photo.  The roof line is about 20-22 feet, somewhere in there, and it is essentially twice as tall as that, so guessing 40 foot plus.  I planted in around 2004 from like a 3 gallon pot, I have never seen anything grow so fast.  Never been damaged by cold.  The W. Filifera that you see in the foreground, I grew from seed.  I know it looks small, but it's actually much taller than a person by a lot believe it or not.  The Robusta sways like crazy in the wind.  It could be a hybrid because it wasn't damaged in either the 2010 or 2011 freezes and I saw some burnt Robusta fronds around from those freezes.  Drops tons of seeds in fall.

Robusta2.jpg

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NBTX11, those are some great Washingtonias, about how old are they, respectively?

2 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

Here is an example of a large Butia in New Braunfels.  Sorry about the poor quality, it was super foggy this morning and the photo came out terrible.  If I have the chance, I will take some photos of some mature Phoenix Canariensis around town.  I spotted this Butia like 15-20 years ago and it was basically the same size then.  Don't know exactly how old it is, but it's old.

Interesting, I wonder if the Butias do not like alkaline soil, or if its a combination of cold, humidity and soil pH.

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Just now, amh said:

NBTX11, those are some great Washingtonias, about how old are they, respectively?

Interesting, I wonder if the Butias do not like alkaline soil, or if its a combination of cold, humidity and soil pH.

I planted one and it sat and languished terribly in my soil.  Even when winters were barely dropping below 30F.  Yet I have seen a handful of mature specimens around, so someone had success.  Maybe it's a function of getting them big so they can survive better.  IDK.  As hardy as they are, you should see a lot more of them.  Go over by Pensacola FL and they are everywhere, and if anything they are actually colder than SA.

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16 hours ago, mulungu said:

I used to live in the same county as both of you and had a Butia.  It saw a low of 12 degrees once and several lows to 14 and 15 F (not every year, though).  It tolerated these temps fine in a south-facing spot.  However,  when these low temps came with ice or snow in the crown, it would temporarily lose spear and put out a new one a couple of months later.  Not sure how it would handle below 10F, that may be pushing it. Here it was in the 2010-11  winter, when it snowed.

Did you have any problems with dry cold?

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4 minutes ago, amh said:

NBTX11, those are some great Washingtonias, about how old are they, respectively?

Interesting, I wonder if the Butias do not like alkaline soil, or if its a combination of cold, humidity and soil pH.

The tallest Washingtonia, 40ish footer is about 17 years old.  The Filifera, which is about 25-30 feet is about 15-16 years, and the other Robusta is about 14 or 15 years.  The smaller Robusta is actually younger than the Filifera, but it outgrew the Filifera and is now taller.  Both Robusta's produce a ton of seeds.  If anyone wants free seeds hit me up in the fall and come scoop some up.  

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1 minute ago, NBTX11 said:

I planted one and it sat and languished terribly in my soil.  Even when winters were barely dropping below 30F.  Yet I have seen a handful of mature specimens around, so someone had success.  Maybe it's a function of getting them big so they can survive better.  IDK.  As hardy as they are, you should see a lot more of them.  Go over by Pensacola FL and they are everywhere, and if anything they are actually colder than SA.

I've looked at the climate maps for the pan handle in the past and the Pensacola area gets really cold, especially for its proximity to the gulf.

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2 minutes ago, amh said:

I've looked at the climate maps for the pan handle in the past and the Pensacola area gets really cold, especially for its proximity to the gulf.

Yeah we are actually warmer than Pensacola by a couple degrees in winter.  They are slightly further north.  We get more winter heat.  It's pretty comparable though.

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7 hours ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Concur with @syersjon his bullet proof palm list for the greater San Antonio metro area, at least for planting mature specimens.  I would say there is a slightly higher risk for juveniles of the same species inside the 1604 loop.  Northwest and North of San Antonio, particularly in the Hill Country, is a different matter tough.  Mature specimens should still be fine, but the risk of death due to freezing is elevated.  For juveniles (less than three feet tall with little to no trunk), I would say the risk of spear pull and/or death during wet cold snaps increases to moderate/high.  I live in northwest Bexar County outside the 1604 and south of I-10 at over 1300 feet.  I have seen spear pull AND death on juvenile (less than 3 feet tall) Phoenix canariensis and Washingtonia robusta planted in the ground during wet overnight cold snaps (to include freezing rain) that got down to the low 20s and upper teens (F).  I have seen spear pull (but eventual recovery) on juvenile (less than 3 feet tall) Washingtonia filifera, Brahea sp. "Super Silver," and Trachycarpus fortunei (that's right, I said "Trachycarpus fortunei") during those same conditions.  I think you would be at low risk of cold death for mature Washingtonia filifera and Butia odorata in your area.  If you are going to spend money on them, then I think your risk/reward calculation would be weighted toward buying them and trying them out.  I would not be so confident with juvenile specimens of ANY palms in your area, and you may need to protect them until they get some good trunk on them.  I experiment with planting juveniles on my property because I have grown them all from seed, and there is no real cost (or more importantly, monetary loss ) involved.  If I was paying good money for a palm to plant on my property though, I would pick one with a solid rating of Zone 8b or below.

Also, I can attest that micro climates are a real thing in the Hill County as you stated.  I have noticed that ridge lines are typically a little warmer than the valleys in the winter (I am sure there is a meteorological or atmospheric reason for this, or maybe the old adage "heat rises" applies).  I have seen up to 5 degree (F) temperature drops when driving from the top of my hill to the bottom (a roughly 200 foot drop).  Take advantage of buildings, rock walls, terrain, live oak canopies, etc. when placing your palms.  They will provide some additional protection.  Planting juvenile palms in open areas, especially on the side of hills, can be problematic in the Hill Country.  We get 20+ mph winds, with gusts at 40+ mph, on a routine basis.

I have started every palm I have from seed for these reasons. Most of my property is wooded, which protects from frost and ice, but I'd be growing Washingtonias in the pasture. I will note that rock walls and clearings can give a venturi effect.

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3 hours ago, amh said:

I've looked at the climate maps for the pan handle in the past and the Pensacola area gets really cold, especially for its proximity to the gulf.

 

3 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

Yeah we are actually warmer than Pensacola by a couple degrees in winter.  They are slightly further north.  We get more winter heat.  It's pretty comparable though.

Yep! If you are seeing mature Queens in that area as well as young Bismarckia, then we are definitely a few degrees colder. Personally ive seen 12 nights of freezing temps this winter, with 10 out of the 12 nights being below 30F, 1 night below 25F. The other two nights were between 30F-32F. This isnt enough to keep a Queen from living here, but that 22F night scared me though.

Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 2 W. bifurcata, 6 W. robusta, 3 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 P. roebelenii, 2 S. palmetto, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 A. merillii, 3 P. sylvestris, 1 Butia x Jubaea, 1 Butia x Jubaea x Butia x Syagrus, 1 X Butiagrus nabonnandii, 2 L. chinensis, 1 Cocos nucifera 

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1 hour ago, JLM said:

 

Yep! If you are seeing mature Queens in that area as well as young Bismarckia, then we are definitely a few degrees colder. Personally ive seen 12 nights of freezing temps this winter, with 10 out of the 12 nights being below 30F, 1 night below 25F. The other two nights were between 30F-32F. This isnt enough to keep a Queen from living here, but that 22F night scared me though.

I've had one night at 28, one night at 29, one night at 30, and one night at 31.  Everything else has been above 32F.  The 28 degree night was on December 1st.  I saw a few large queen palms today in New Braunfels, which is a NE suburb of San Antonio.  They looked perfectly happy and healthy.  If I get the chance I will shoot some photos of some around town.  There used to be a lot of them (relatively speaking) prior to 2010.  Now they are being planted again.

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6 hours ago, amh said:

Did you have any problems with dry cold?

That Butia tolerated dry cold quite well.  It did not lose the spear after that 12 F, which was dry.  Only caveat is that it was somewhat shielded from direct cold winds by the house.  Such siting factors would of course be important considerations when a species is at the borderline of its cold tolerance.

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On 1/23/2021 at 6:53 PM, amh said:

Same county as you.

There is a huge temperature variation throughout the region, I've already been to 18F this mild winter and February and March are usually more extreme.

How have you been down to 18 when I havent dropped below 27 and I'm 250 miles north????

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4 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

How have you been down to 18 when I havent dropped below 27 and I'm 250 miles north????

Texas Hill Country, apparently.  Most of the rest of us haven't dropped below 28 or 29.  The Riverwalk probably hasn't dropped below 32 this winter.

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14 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

Texas Hill Country, apparently.  Most of the rest of us haven't dropped below 28 or 29.  The Riverwalk probably hasn't dropped below 32 this winter.

Lowest I recorded this winter was 27 (so far).

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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5 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

How have you been down to 18 when I havent dropped below 27 and I'm 250 miles north????

Terrain and radiative cooling, it's unbelievable until you experience it.

39 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

Texas Hill Country, apparently.  Most of the rest of us haven't dropped below 28 or 29.  The Riverwalk probably hasn't dropped below 32 this winter.

This.

Dew point is what matters here.

25 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Lowest I recorded this winter was 27 (so far).

18 a few times, 24 a few more times, but most lows this season have been 29 to 31. Exceptionally mild winter so far.

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There are Queen palms in New Braunfels also.  Most were killed in 2010 and 11.  A small handful survived like the 2 on the bottom.

NB8.jpg

NB10.jpg

Edited by NBTX11
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11 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

There are Queen palms in New Braunfels also.  Most were killed in 2010 and 11.  A small handful survived like the 2 on the bottom.

Those trees would be good seed sources for those in marginal areas.  Are they on the south side of that house?

Jon Sunder

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Just now, Fusca said:

Those trees would be good seed sources for those in marginal areas.  Are they on the south side of that house?

Yes, they are kind of southeast facing.  I first noticed these palms well before 2010 and they were relatively big then.

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Took this shot after my run this evening.  Northwest Bexar County.  Dude has a Queen right up beside his house (right side of front door).  Elevation approximately 1200 feet.  He has some Phoenix sp. with a decent trunk too (left side of front door), although it is hard to see with this drive-by picture.  Been there at least two years (that is when I first noticed it; could have been there longer).  Front of the house is Southwest facing.

image.thumb.jpeg.f36ccefffc166183b0c01d469d7930a3.jpeg

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Unified Theory of Palm Seed Germination

image.png.2a6e16e02a0a8bfb8a478ab737de4bb1.png

(Where: bh = bottom heat, fs = fresh seed, L = love, m = magic, p = patience, and t = time)

DISCLAIMER: Working theory; not yet peer reviewed.

"Fronds come and go; the spear is life!" - Anonymous Palmtalker

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